Play poll: No Open world vs Instanced world?

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Originally Posted by Rokien

OK, this is seriously one of my biggest issues with the game, and it is a big issue. I don't want them to take out the best thing in the game and make it instanced(this)
I think before they go all out on these instances, they should ask the people!

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The world is Open. Not Instanced. It'll never be instanced. Dungeons will be instanced and I'm okay with that. I don't want to deal with enemies with 001% drop rates that are being camped and only one LS has a hand on them, etc. That's not fun.

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Originally Posted by Vaen

Well, the only reason it's not popular is because people outlevel it so fast. It's a really beautiful and fun dungeon, I still go back there sometimes on my lower level jobs.

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He's just digging very hard. The only reason it wasn't popular is because most of the player base was already 50 and maxed out bytime it was released.

If it was released in 2010, you can bet it would have been the most popular place as it would have supplemented guildleves very well.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

The world is Open. Not Instanced. It'll never be instanced. Dungeons will be instanced and I'm okay with that. I don't want to deal with enemies with 001% drop rates that are being camped and only one LS has a hand on them, etc. That's not fun.

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Why would mobs have Ragnarok Online drop rates just because it's open world? Have you ever played FFXI? None of the enemies in Crawler's Nest, Garbage Shitadel or Castle Oztroja had 0.1% drop rates.

I prefer instanced dungeons myself.

I get the feeling Yoshi has pretty much made up his mind on this, that may be why it isn't in the poll.

It makes me laugh really because each area in FF11 was nothing more than a giant instance anyway, that is what zones are.

Shposhae will become a zone/instance but whether they will allow multiple players/parties to enter at once is another matter entirely.

I personally prefer the challenge of content that is restricted to just 8 16 or 24 people.
(it also reduces the chances of asshat lvl 50s going into low level places and harassing players by continuously claiming monsters.)

Not to mention if all the good gear is in instanced raids, why make an open world at all? Lets just make it a lobby game.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I prefer instanced dungeons myself.

I get the feeling Yoshi has pretty much made up his mind on this, that may be why it isn't in the poll.

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Play vindicuts.......
Or gw1 ;)

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Not to mention if all the good gear is in instanced raids, why make an open world at all? Lets just make it a lobby game.

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Heh people cry about a "FFXI clone" but they'll happily take their GW1 clone.

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Originally Posted by Vaen

Well, the only reason it's not popular is because people outlevel it so fast. It's a really beautiful and fun dungeon, I still go back there sometimes on my lower level jobs.

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I 100% agree.
Shposhae is one of the best made things in FFXIV. Keys, chests, mob spawn conditions, etc... It's like Strongholds should have been.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Why would mobs have Ragnarok Online drop rates just because it's open world? Have you ever played FFXI? None of the enemies in Crawler's Nest, Garbage Shitadel or Castle Oztroja had 0.1% drop rates.

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FFXI was known for it's low drop rates, perhaps not nearly as bad as Ragnarok, but the drop rates are pretty fucking terrible. Also you fail to quote me on the fact that if there was anything with a half decent drop it will pretty much be camped for the next 8 years. But hey, I'm just one of those people who thinks FFXI additions are the worst thing ever because FFXI invented open world games, amirite?

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

FFXI was known for it's low drop rates, perhaps not nearly as bad as Ragnarok, but the drop rates are pretty fucking terrible. Also you fail to quote me on the fact that if there was anything with a half decent drop it will pretty much be camped for the next 8 years. But hey, I'm just one of those people who thinks FFXI additions are the worst thing ever because FFXI invented open world games, amirite?

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The only systems in FFXI that had low drop rates was Salvage and now Voidwatch. Everything else was people who had bad or extremely good luck, because most drop rates were sitting around 40-60% in most raid systems, which means there's a good chance you will or simply won't get the drop, but not extremely low to the point you'd never get it. (0.1%) Which is why I referenced RO because to this date that's still the only MMO I've played with horrendously low drop rates on even quest items.

Actually, when it asked what I thought about the current version I said there was far too much instanced content and not enough open world. World feels dead as a result.

if i liked instances i would play vindictus. just saying.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Play vindicuts.......
Or gw1 ;)

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No you go play something else, instance dungeons will be a fact because of content finder.. we have been over this already !! :) :D :mad::p:o:eek:;):confused:

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Heh people cry about a "FFXI clone" but they'll happily take their GW1 clone.

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Just as you are happy with a FFXI clone, I'm sure others are allowed to want a GW1 clone, are you saying your opinion matters more than the next ? (I'll state now that I'm not looking for this game to be a clone of anything)

Instanced vs. Openworld
There are pros and cons to both. If you go with all openworld you risk the possibility of losing an NM to another player or a camp to another party as well as it allows you to bring 20 of your friends to go do something that was probably balanced towards being a challenge to a party of 8. If you go all instanced then you lose the feeling of a persistent world where you will never see anyone except your LS mates and there are no competitive activities of any kind. You would never come across that level 20 CNJ getting their butt kicked by Alux and swoop in with a cure and make a new friend. It would be a cold and lonely world.

Sumasu Sisters Say:
We think nearly everything in the game should be Openworld except those situations where it makes sense to go with instanced.

Things that make sense would be:

• Dungeons and NM battles that are balanced to be a challenge to a party.
• We can't really think of anything else...

How they went about guildleves is interesting; you have your own mobs that belong to you but you can still see and interact with other players. We like this.

Also, the fear of losing a NM pop to someone else shouldn't be grounds to instance everything. There are ways of combating the monopolizing of NM's that need to be implemented instead.

Also, content finder does not necessitate instanced content. That's just how other MMO's have handled it. There isn't any reason you couldn't queue up for an activity and be matched with others queuing up for the same. True, it would have to then pick a server to spawn you all on.

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Originally Posted by Yelta_Sumasu

Also, content finder does not necessitate instanced content. That's just how other MMO's have handled it. There isn't any reason you couldn't queue up for an activity and be matched with others queuing up for the same. True, it would have to then pick a server to spawn you all on.

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I can almost guarantee they won't allow payers from different worlds to populate each others, if this was possibly with their new server they could just have 3 channels for each zone.
(If they could they would, and if they did they would be harping on about it like its the best thing ever) because it would be.

Those of you that think that wanting instance for dungeons = go play vindictus have the most irrational way of thinking I have possibly ever seen.

Do you know the difference between wanting instances for dungeons than only having instances for dungeons?

There is a huge difference:
-We aren't crafting in instances
-We aren't gathering in instances
-We aren't ONLY leveling in instances
-We aren't getting materials in instances
-Most achievements are attained in open world

Not only that but 2.0 is still adding to open world. SE is completely remaking the map with significant areas in each zone with some sort of lore. Like if you dissect the maps shown you will see different beast camps in certain locations on the map which take up a much larger portion of the map than the current SH hold, smaller camps most likely extending from the main camps. SE even stated in the 2.0 PDFs that
"New Artwork for a temple within the main Ixali stronghold planned for release with version 2.0", which the fact that it's a stronghold will most likely not be instanced since the size would be too great for an instance.

There are also multiple cities in FFXIV, which hopefully with the coming of 2.0 the population size wont affect the fact that the sheer amount of people in XIV right now makes it impractical to not inhabit only 1 city.

See, the difference between this and vindictus is that vindictus ONLY has instances. We don't want everything to be instanced, we want the content which requires an organized group of people to be instanced so that the fights don't become utter chaos and so that Square enix can create content so a group of friends can join together and do something challenging yet rewarding.

That's where Vindictus and FFXIV seperate from each other. Vindictus has like 100 different channels. The only way you will probably meet people is through joining a random group in a party list and meet a person. FFXIV however has multiple ways of meeting people, with dungeons being a way of strengthening those bonds. My LS has a lot of really cool people. Yet when I first joined them they were more of a group of people which I could do content with since I really didn't know anyone there. However after doing instances with them I can say that one of the main reasons why I'm still play XIV is because of my LS.

So yes, keep adding open world content, I enjoy it. Hamlet Defense could be Open World and I honestly wouldn't mind, but keep the dungeons instanced. I don't want to start camping bosses because other people will be camping it as well and then having a chance of even claiming the boss and then of actually getting a drop. Then the problem of claim bots start to arise and the separation of Linkshells happen and overall people start calling people out just because of the fact that Open World dungeons are a big thing.If you ask me, focusing on open world dungeons creates segregation between the whole community. On the other hand, everything else being open world strengthens the community(Such as Hamlet Defense being open world).

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Play vindicuts.......
Or gw1 ;)

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See Rokien... this right here is where you start to lose... This is also what both sides of this can not see eye to eye. Someone has a different opinion and someone I either side will state "you want this" or "you don't like this" go play X game. And once you start doing that you are in the wrong...

Is there no way that there can be both open world content and instanced content? I'm sure there will still be strongholds and things of that nature in the game as open world... I'm also sure that even if Yoshi said all dungeons will be instanced that will not really happen and there will be some open world ones. The fact both sides of this take it to such extremes... Though as I have said before... you humans do like to attack each other over nothing...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Missing the point entirely.

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Don't bother, Wolfie's pretty thick and closed to possibilities outside their own scope of interpretation.

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Originally Posted by Vaen

Some more huge open world dungeons, building and improving on what Shposhae offered, would definitely be nice.

No ticking time limits, no party size requirents. They could be highly recommended for groups but also possible for soloers to survive if they're willing to go veeerry slowly and cautiously.

I think there's room for instanced dungeons AND open-world ones in FFXIV, and pros and cons to both, but they definitely shouldn't make ONLY instanced dungeons.

Maybe because they're redesigning the maps, they're holding off on open-world stuff until 2.0 and beyond? I can see why it'd be easier to implement instances now instead of open world dungeons that wouldn't exactly fit before or after the open world maps are redesigned.

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The reason why we most likely not see open world dungeons is because of balance. The reason why stuff is instanced is so it's easier to balance, the reason why dungeons are timed are so you can't take your sweet time and comb every nook and cranny of a dungeon, instead you have to act fast and defeat it in a timely manner. The reason for the party limit is so the boss's strength can be based on the size allowed to enter.

With an open world dungeon the main strategy can just come down to throw as many bodies on it as possible, plus it creates unnecessary hatred towards the community for things like claiming a mob and such, if there were to be a timed one. The only way they could make an open world dungeon work would to be if they made it so intricate that people were always wandering around for their objective, but if things and locations are in a set place all you end up with is people camping, do you really want to camp in this game?

The way things are setup now I have yet to really see people having to camp for something and if they do it's only for a short duration, the challenge is what people should be focusing on, not content that may add an unnecessary time sink as well as something that could cause friction within the community.

The other thing is, there is no need to speak about open world and instance because it was already explained by Yoshida way back. The reasons are logical and it's mainly what I said above about balance. What fun is it if rather then using strategy you just throw everyone at a mob to kill it? If you have the numbers cool, but wouldn't you rather have content that is tailored for 16+ people rather then tearing through content designed for 4-8 people.

While yes it does suck that people can get left out when doing events rather then ask for open world "dungeons" focus more on asking for content that requires that many people.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

There's room in this game for both.

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I agree, the need and want for both is there. Open dungeons have a different kind of threat from instanced ones imo, or should...

Then again I think there should be HNM too, but idk how others feel. Content is Content.

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Originally Posted by NadienKirisame

See Rokien... this right here is where you start to lose... This is also what both sides of this can not see eye to eye. Someone has a different opinion and someone I either side will state "you want this" or "you don't like this" go play X game. And once you start doing that you are in the wrong...

Is there no way that there can be both open world content and instanced content? I'm sure there will still be strongholds and things of that nature in the game as open world... I'm also sure that even if Yoshi said all dungeons will be instanced that will not really happen and there will be some open world ones. The fact both sides of this take it to such extremes... Though as I have said before... you humans do like to attack each other over nothing...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

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I've stated many times that instances have their place, but when EVERY ACTIVITY is instanced(that drops something worth while) it becomes an issue. Right now, all gear that you should be getting, is inside an instanced. Especially the darklight armor that is out now.

Everyone is level 50 pretty much, so what is there to do? Go in an instanced dungeon and get the best armor, that's not good game design(also my opinion).

Also, I was more or less, stating that this game will turn into gw1 or vindictus if the rate of instanced areas continue. Sorry, I played FFXI for the community and how many things there was to do OUTSIDE of an instanced area.
Right now its the same, grab the same 8 people- go in the dungeon. There is nothing adventuring or exciting about that.

As i've stated, I like instanced content just not when instanced> open world.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I've stated many times that instances have their place, but when EVERY ACTIVITY is instanced(that drops something worth while) it becomes an issue. Right now, all gear that you should be getting, is inside an instanced. Especially the darklight armor that is out now.

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Yes, because we REALLY need to spend time fighting for claims and then waiting after we fail. That makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Also, I was more or less, stating that this game will turn into gw1 or vindictus if the rate of instanced areas continue. Sorry, I played FFXI for the community and how many things there was to do OUTSIDE of an instanced area.

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Not at all. GW1 and Vindicktits had channels, and aren't even considered MMOs by the developers who make the games. FFXIV has no channels at all. The game has a 100% open world, and a few small dungeons that are instanced. This is the way the game should be going. Not all of us want to slave away 10 hours in front of a mob hoping to claim it for a small chance at getting the item that we want.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

As i've stated, I like instanced content just not when instanced> open world.

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Except this is not the way that the game will be going. I'm pretty sure Yoshida wants to stick to a completely open world with no channels. You're overreacting.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

Yes, because we REALLY need to spend time fighting for claims and then waiting after we fail. That makes sense.



Not at all. GW1 and Vindicktits had channels, and aren't even considered MMOs by the developers who make the games. FFXIV has no channels at all. The game has a 100% open world, and a few small dungeons that are instanced. This is the way the game should be going. Not all of us want to slave away 10 hours in front of a mob hoping to claim it for a small chance at getting the item that we want.



Except this is not the way that the game will be going. I'm pretty sure Yoshida wants to stick to a completely open world with no channels. You're overreacting.

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never said anything about channels..... I'm talking about them turning every dungeon into an instanced raid.... I'm just comparing them.

>Don't have to camp if you don't want to, you didn't in ffxi.
>it's not 100% open world, if it was we wouldn't have instanced raids
>It's not completely open world........ so no I'm not overreacting when he said hes going to turn all dungeons into instanced areas.(basically a channel, wanna know why? Because I'm fighting ifrit with my group, you are also fighitng ifrit in your group, but we don't see each other..... hmmmmm......same thing as a channel.)

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Originally Posted by Rokien

>Don't have to camp if you don't want to, you didn't in ffxi.

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How could you think that this is a good point? This is the equivalent of "if you don't like it, don't play it." People who didn't camp in FFXI didn't get to play the game.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

How could you think that this is a good point? This is the equivalent of "if you don't like it, don't play it." People who didn't camp in FFXI didn't get to play the game.

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It's the same argument that you guys do with "IF YOU DON'T LIKE GUUBOOO, ANIMA, WHATEVER DON'T USE IT HURP DURP"
Also you didn't have to get leaping boots or the epin stuff like that >.>

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Originally Posted by Rokien

It's the same argument that you guys do with "IF YOU DON'T LIKE GUUBOOO, ANIMA, WHATEVER DON'T USE IT HURP DURP"

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Yes, because you have other options. If you don't want to use a goobbue, you have a chocobo. If you don't want to use anima, you have airships, teleports, walking, and mounts.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Yes, because you have other options. If you don't want to use a goobbue, you have a chocobo. If you don't want to use anima, you have airships, teleports, walking, and mounts.

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I'm not even going to list off the other options you had for gear in ffxi.......

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I'm not even going to list off the other options you had for gear in ffxi.......

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I would love to hear the alternative ways I could get Zenith Mitts, Algol, or Ridill.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I would love to hear the alternative ways I could get Zenith Mitts, Algol, or Ridill.

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LOL Leaping Boots was all he could listed, i have serious doubt he ever seen anything like Dalmatica or E.Body. God, i hope OP can proof me wrong lmao. I can't take him seriously now.

If Leaping boots NM is what he wants, we already have mid-level NMs that are in open world.

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How could you think that this is a good point? This is the equivalent of "if you don't like it, don't play it." People who didn't camp in FFXI didn't get to play the game.

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This was very true for many many years, people were stuck and couldnt play the game due to best gears coming from open world HNMs. Solutions doesn't really come until Aht Urgan expansion which includes... guess what? MANY MANY INSTANCES woot!

Which offers many great pieces that are compareable to what ground HNMs offers,
Nashira/Homam from Limbus INSTANCES.
Every single piece from Salvage INSTANCES.

Let's also not forget dynamis INSTANCES, this was one of the early solution so people that couldn't claim HNMs in open worlds to have something to look forward too and to stop them from spotting AH gear or AF1.




Fact is, there was nothing in your post which merits open world, all u can say is just how you hates the idea of open world without a clear justifying.



and let me even clearer with what your reason were.

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Rank 20 dungeon:
-Has more to it
-Meet new people(party up with strangers)
-NMs that you have to do certain things to make em pop(from what I understand)
-Chests that have random drops(HAVE TO BE OPEN BY KEYS)<---big thing for me.
-Different level of chests(rare keys to common)
-Multiple floors
-Not instanced
-Fun and thrill of the hunt(claiming the nm)

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1. Has more to what? you mean it's only bigger because the content was designed for the whole server instead of 8 people?

2. Don't give me this crap, i make friends all the time doing instanced in this game or FFXI.

3. Yeah.. this is also possible in any instanced.

4,5,6. Chests also have random drops in Aurum's/Cutter's, sup? Cutter's have multiple floors too, sup?

7,8. Lol claiming the NM to be part of the thrill. People were happy when they get claims because they can finally fight something not when they were attempting to claim.

I agree with OP, less instances and more open-world content. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

How could you think that this is a good point? This is the equivalent of "if you don't like it, don't play it." People who didn't camp in FFXI didn't get to play the game.

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Bull.

I played FFXI for years without camping.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I would love to hear the alternative ways I could get Zenith Mitts, Algol, or Ridill.

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Z.mitts = meh, generally overrated
Algol = completely overrated... paladins didn't DPS, Warriors used G.Axe, and DRK w/ GSword sucked.
Ridill = the most overrated P.O.S. equipment in FFXI, hands-down.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I would love to hear the alternative ways I could get Zenith Mitts, Algol, or Ridill.

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... you are very dense you know that... I was talking about how much gear there was an how many options you had for gear types that you didn't have to camp for.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

... you are very dense you know that... I was talking about how much gear there was an how many options you had for gear types that you didn't have to camp for.

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But I wanted those pieces of gear. What were my options?

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Originally Posted by Rokien

... you are very dense you know that... I was talking about how much gear there was an how many options you had for gear types that you didn't have to camp for.

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And you just go against the grain at almost every opportunity.

I'm just glad that you are in a small minority of players that think this way.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Let's also not forget dynamis INSTANCES, this was one of the early solution so people that couldn't claim HNMs in open worlds to have something to look forward too and to stop them from spotting AH gear or AF1.

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Dynamis wasn't an instance...

An instance implies it's an entirely separate entity from the main world, that nobody else can interfere with. Dynamis was a zone that could be claimed by a single group, making it impossible to enter until they left.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Dynamis wasn't an instance...

An instance implies it's an entirely separate entity from the main world, that nobody else can interfere with. Dynamis was a zone that could be claimed by a single group, making it impossible to enter until they left.

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Dynamis was an separate entity that you loaded into that only allowed one group or X amount of players.

It is an instance.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Dynamis wasn't an instance...

An instance implies it's an entirely separate entity from the main world, that nobody else can interfere with. Dynamis was a zone that could be claimed by a single group, making it impossible to enter until they left.

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It was instanced because each group had a different dynamis. The fact that the game didn't support concurrent dynamis instances doesn't make it any less of one.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

But I wanted those pieces of gear. What were my options?

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Buy them from my over priced retainer after my LS takes down the mobs you appearently make very clear you feel you will be unable to make claim on or take down yourself ???

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Buy them from my over priced retainer after my LS takes down the mobs you appearently make very clear you feel you will be unable to make claim on or take down yourself ???

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Rare/Ex bro.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Rare/Ex bro.

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That never stopped people selling drops in XI.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

That never stopped people selling drops in XI.

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Assuming, of course, that they got the pull and weren't beaten to it by another group.