What have you done?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Awful

I know you're talking about DRK and I agree, it has its issues but that doesn't mean that ALL tanks are boring/bad to play I love how GNB plays and WAR and PLD look super fun to play and I love the changes to them. WAR was the defacto MT with Unchained, No one misses Flash, and Dark Arts spam was a hand cramp, those are a few things that are gone that were just either jank or not fun to play, I never liked using Unchained + Equilibrium in my opener just for threat it was unneeded.

I like the changes but off topic (sorta) I'm not a fan of what they did to DRK and it's why I'm not playing it this xpac the rework just wasn't executed properly, well thought out but boring and about as deep as a puddle.

---

I feel that. I actually just changed my main for the first time in YEARS yesterday, I went from DRK to PLD. Loving PLD so far, feels really fun to play so far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Op is probably one of those plds that never leave tank stance and spams their aggro combo 4 or 5 times but still lose aggro to a samurai.

---

This isn't Reddit...stop telling these lame jokes in an attempt to farm karma. OP brought up valid concerns, why don't you actually try to post a thoughtful response to some of them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jetfire117

Died when stormblood came out.

---

If Stormblood was what killed the Dark Knight, then Shadowbringers has now put the nail in his coffin.

Aggro generation was never a factor outside of WAR pulling and circle-shirking. You always 'hit a cooldown now and then'. DRK is, in fact, a train wreck. Aggro combos went almost entirely unused in decent play, and the changes to add AOE combos - though homogenous - is a net positive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheForce

If Stormblood was what killed the Dark Knight, then Shadowbringers has now put the nail in his coffin.

---

Shadowbringers took out the nails and just left it open while it sits in the grave. The grave robbers haven't finished their job yet.

I think why delirium feels so out of place and underwhelming is probably because there isn't a mechanic to lead up to it. Maybe if they build the playstyle around to using it instead of here use delirium right at the get go it probably will be even more fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheForce

If Stormblood was what killed the Dark Knight, then Shadowbringers has now put the nail in his coffin.

---

Stormblood Dark Knight was good though :(

Not perfect but a really good base to expand from.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jandor

Stormblood Dark Knight was good though :(

Not perfect but a really good base to expand from.

---

I agree 100%

Yes yes yes. There was so much potential and room for improvement, but, they just wasted it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheForce

Literally your every post in this forum .........................................................

---

OMG.... You are so, so overdramatic, that just reading any post with your name on it actually hurts. I even saw you saying you wished we got a downvote button to someone who just said they liked the new DRK.... I mean can't we have an different opinion than yours?? Then I also saw someone listing what they liked, and you answered like they had to convince you, or explain to you why they like those things.... REALLY??? You are so annoying, and really egotistical ....

Dude stop your idiotic crusade to try to convince everyone that new DRK is trash, it isn't. You may not like it, but that's YOUR problem and YOUR personal taste, doesn't mean anything is broken. In fact, i've seen a lot of positive feedback from the new DRK, both ingame and in this negative place called OF... And no, the OP didn't have much valid concerns either, just some overdramatic reaction to tank change, and praising holding emnity like it was the challenge of tanking...

If you don't like something, say you don't like and move on, don't go on a crusade trying to ruin it for everyone that actually liked the damn thing... Didn't you say you changed to PLD already? Then move on, and stop your tantrum....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scremin

If you don't like something, say you don't like and move on, don't go on a crusade trying to ruin it for everyone that actually liked the damn thing...

---

People went on a two year crusade to ruin Dark Knight for everyone who liked the SB version.

I think I'll keep complaining.

Excuse me, not trying to sound rude but the ones that enjoy old version of DRK where first in this and ppl have the right to complaint all they want they fav job change to much they don't like it, meant some take it to far but everyone here have more reasons to complaint about this changes that the ones that are having fun and say dealt with it and play another thing, they enjoy DRK first and if someone have to move to another job to play the game style they want are the ones that are enjoying it bcs we have a lot of jobs already with that gameplay and far better that DRK one

To say a job is objectively bad is just wrong. Fun and enjoyment are purely subjective. I personally like DRK a lot more now but that is just my opinion. It doesn't have to reflect yours, nor does your opinion have to reflect mine. DRK is different, and that will mean that people will either like it or hate. Doesn't mean that it is wrong. Just different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scremin

OMG.... You are so, so overdramatic, that just reading any post with your name on it actually hurts. I even saw you saying you wished we got a downvote button to someone who just said they liked the new DRK.... I mean can't we have an different opinion than yours?? Then I also saw someone listing what they liked, and you answered like they had to convince you, or explain to you why they like those things.... REALLY??? You are so annoying, and really egotistical ....

Dude stop your idiotic crusade to try to convince everyone that new DRK is trash, it isn't. You may not like it, but that's YOUR problem and YOUR personal taste, doesn't mean anything is broken. In fact, i've seen a lot of positive feedback from the new DRK, both ingame and in this negative place called OF... And no, the OP didn't have much valid concerns either, just some overdramatic reaction to tank change, and praising holding emnity like it was the challenge of tanking...

If you don't like something, say you don't like and move on, don't go on a crusade trying to ruin it for everyone that actually liked the damn thing... Didn't you say you changed to PLD already? Then move on, and stop your tantrum....

---

Nice, insulting and throwing out personal attacks is a great way to get your point across. Since you've been stalking all of my posts, I hope that you've also noticed that no matter how much I disagreed with somebody, not once did I attack them personally. So, congrats. You've now become worse than the very thing you're trying to fight against. And it's just so ironic that you're lecturing others about being overdramatic and throwing tantrums but you're here typing in caps and ranting on and on. All while calling me names lol. Come on now. Don't dig your own grave like that.

I and many others believe that the new DRK is abysmal, so, we post our thoughts on these forums hoping that the class will made better as it should've been when ShB dropped on Friday. If I don't like something, I'm not just gonna say "I don't like it" and move on. What am I 14? I need to start discussions and talk about exactly what I don't like, and why I don't like it, so that people can actually take me seriously and hopefully see there's a real problem here. If you don't like my posts, then close your eyes or something, I don't know. But please don't reply with nonsense like this again.

This TheForce guys is so annoying, we got it. You hate the new DRK.

PPL don't only hate new DRK, they want a change and the best way to archive that is making noise in the forum, wich is for feedback purposes so it doesn't matter how annoying is for some of you but we aren't going to stop, we want out fav job being fun again like it was before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shao32

PPL don't only hate new DRK, they want a change and the best way to archive that is making noise in the forum, wich is for feedback purposes so it doesn't matter how annoying is for some of you but we aren't going to stop, we want out fav job being fun again like it was before.

---

But Im loving the new DRK

Especially the new opener, you need to double weave a lot of stuff. So busy <3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nedkel

You could play dps if you want.
No one was crying after enmity combo removal, you are complaining about thing that was nonexistent either way. With tank stance there were no enmity management whatsoever. Its just making a fus out of thin air.
Tanks are boring? Were they more engaging to play before? Stop kidding me.
Did tanks had any other combos worth to use? Enmity combo was barely ever used at all, at least they got aoe combo and extra stuff to rotate with it, and not spam 1 button until tp ran out.
Paladin guted in the worst way? Lol
Paladin has NEVER been in the better shape than he is now.
Warrior got extra stuff too.
Drk has been completely reworked, it doesnt mean to be the old version of itself.
Im confused, did we played the same game?

---

Agreed...Pally is fun and some people will never be satisfied with tanks. tank stance was a joke im glad they changed it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shao32

Excuse me, not trying to sound rude but the ones that enjoy old version of DRK where first in this and ppl have the right to complaint all they want they fav job change to much they don't like it, meant some take it to far but everyone here have more reasons to complaint about this changes that the ones that are having fun and say dealt with it and play another thing, they enjoy DRK first and if someone have to move to another job to play the game style they want are the ones that are enjoying it bcs we have a lot of jobs already with that gameplay and far better that DRK one

---

Where those people who loved old DRK were when DRK was being in tomato juice from top to toe?
Dont be surprised they reworked DRK if it was like that for the past 2 years, 2 years of complaints about every single thing.

We got what we asked for, eat or leave it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tila

Ya'll would be complaining no matter what they would have done.

---

YEP some people just like to bitch

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shao32

PPL don\\'t only hate new DRK, they want a change and the best way to archive that is making noise in the forum, wich is for feedback purposes so it doesn\\'t matter how annoying is for some of you but we aren\\'t going to stop, we want out fav job being fun again like it was before.

---

It would be great if people could stop claiming what they don't know. No, I don't want the new DRK to change. No I do not hate it. At best I can understand if it needs a tweak here and there, but not another rework.

Before you claim 'people hate it' go in game livestream and make a survey to every player connected. Then you might start talking that way.

Then please point those sources so we can see them. And even if you do, it will no be valid for the same reason: we don't know the number of players in game who like the changes and those who not. Supporting yourself in social media or a fc I cannot talk with to exchange opinions is the same as posting a photo of a snowing winter to claim that the climate change is not a real problem.

There are only so many ways that you can do a burst dps cooldown. People seem to be also complaining that No Mercy is essentially Fight or Flight. Wildfire is a creative alternative that we're yet to see on a tank, but it's also an example of what happens when you get too creative.

You still have to manage your oGCD usage under Delirium. The setup for the windows in which Blood Weapon, Delirium, and Living Shadow all sync up tend to be pretty interesting from a resource management perspective.

I haven't gotten around to leveling DRK on my account yet, but I was playing with it at a friend's place who has it at 80 already and even though Living Shadow is just a glorified dot I find it pretty fun at level cap. Considering it went from "spam dark arts on these specific skills all the time then use blood weapon for more MP" to actually planning cooldowns and managing MP to have enough for TBN for tankbuster mitigation and to be able to weave in as many edges during delirium for buff windows, I'd say ShB DRK has taken a step in the right direction and I'm pretty excited to level it once I'm done with GNB.

They finally got a burst phase which they sorely lacked back in 4.0 for TA windows (assuming TA remains a thing in optimized raids.). Sure, it could use a bit more tweaking here and there, delirium is just a worse IR and I can understand that upsets some people but the overall gameplay for DRK is fairly different than WAR's, even if they do share one (technically two) similar skills. I mean GNB basically just has a flat out worse Fight of Flight but I haven't seen anyone complain about that and it's still really fun to play.

Pretending like holding aggro was hard pre shadowbringers is getting really annoying. You were not special just because you stance danced, hell your average ok tank was doing that in the end of stormblood. Hitting the extra 3 buttons didnt make you skilled it was just tedious. The aggro changes in shadowbringers raises the floor and doesn't affect the skill ceiling too much. If you want to have every class be viable in all scenarios then every class has to have similiar toolkits, thats just a simple reality. Everyone is ok with classes being different until it's their class that can't compete because it is missing tools the other classes have.

I honestly am struggling to even play the game anymore after the DRK and SCH reworks. I keep seeing people talk about how fun DRK is now, but at 76 I’m just not seeing what they are apparently. Spamming 1-2-3 over and over and over again then spamming 4 for 10 seconds every 80 seconds just isn’t engaging to me. We don’t have to monitor our aggro or MP reserves anymore due to how easy both are now (look I’m not saying it was hard to gain aggro before, but they somehow made it even easier) and our attacking speed has been slowed to crawl, what exactly am I supposed to get excited about? There’s nothing to mange, no reason to think, hell the only reason Dark side falls off occasionally is because I staring spacing out due to our shallow combo. I just want HW DRK back :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EpicOverlord85

I honestly am struggling to even play the game anymore after the DRK and SCH reworks. I keep seeing people talk about how fun DRK is now, but at 76 I’m just not seeing what they are apparently. Spamming 1-2-3 over and over and over again then spamming 4 for 10 seconds every 80 seconds just isn’t engaging to me. We don’t have to monitor our aggro or MP reserves anymore due to how easy both are now (look I’m not saying it was hard to gain aggro before, but they somehow made it even easier) and our attacking speed has been slowed to crawl, what exactly am I supposed to get excited about? There’s nothing to mange, no reason to think, hell the only reason Dark side falls off occasionally is because I staring spacing out due to our shallow combo. I just want HW DRK back :(

---

Spot on. I agree 100%...man, this whole situation is just a bummer.

Have you tried out PLD yet? It's pretty fun and has now become my new main after what SE did to DRK. I was honestly close to quitting the game too man but giving PLD a shot saved everything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EpicOverlord85

I honestly am struggling to even play the game anymore after the DRK and SCH reworks. I keep seeing people talk about how fun DRK is now, but at 76 I’m just not seeing what they are apparently. Spamming 1-2-3 over and over and over again then spamming 4 for 10 seconds every 80 seconds just isn’t engaging to me. We don’t have to monitor our aggro or MP reserves anymore due to how easy both are now (look I’m not saying it was hard to gain aggro before, but they somehow made it even easier) and our attacking speed has been slowed to crawl, what exactly am I supposed to get excited about? There’s nothing to mange, no reason to think, hell the only reason Dark side falls off occasionally is because I staring spacing out due to our shallow combo. I just want HW DRK back :(

---

I didn't get too far into DRK back in HW, so odds are that most people who say ShB DRK is fun are in the same boat I am and started playing it in 4.0. Back then, DRK was still all about spamming 1-2-3 and add the occasional DA to souleater and CnS (let's face it, nobody used their enmity combo after the very first one at the start of a fight). It felt fast paced but only because of Blood Weapon and constant DA weaving and MP management was a joke with how easy it was to generate. I played DRK for the majority of SB before switching to WAR near the end, DRK just began feeling more tedious than fun to me.

Now in ShB, I actually enjoy it quite a bit more. MP is more difficult to generate so maximizing damage output means possibly sacrificing a TBN cast for an extra edge of shadow within a buff window, building up MP reserves to weave them in alongside Bloodspiller while having basically the strongest DoT in the game in the form of Living Shadow. It's still fairly clunky and it does feel slow both due to the lack of Blood Weapon's haste buff and the fact you're no longer weaving DA every other skill, but there's still complexity and fun to be had in optimizing damage potential without sacrificing too much of their survivability. That's just how it feels for me, in any case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EpicOverlord85

I honestly am struggling to even play the game anymore after the DRK and SCH reworks. I keep seeing people talk about how fun DRK is now, but at 76 I’m just not seeing what they are apparently. Spamming 1-2-3 over and over and over again then spamming 4 for 10 seconds every 80 seconds just isn’t engaging to me. We don’t have to monitor our aggro or MP reserves anymore due to how easy both are now (look I’m not saying it was hard to gain aggro before, but they somehow made it even easier) and our attacking speed has been slowed to crawl, what exactly am I supposed to get excited about? There’s nothing to mange, no reason to think, hell the only reason Dark side falls off occasionally is because I staring spacing out due to our shallow combo. I just want HW DRK back :(

---

Back in SB, we did the same thing with DRK. The enmity combo was pretty much used maybe twice a raid fight, and we only spammed the Souleater combo while using Dark Arts (I shudder thinking of that nightmare) constantly. Take DA out of the equation, and we were doing the same thing then as we are now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Back in SB, we did the same thing with DRK. The enmity combo was pretty much used maybe twice a raid fight, and we only spammed the Souleater combo while using Dark Arts (I shudder thinking of that nightmare) constantly. Take DA out of the equation, and we were doing the same thing then as we are now.

---

same, the enmity combo of the dark knight for me in SB was only used when my enmity was too low.... generally i was only using the other combo... my mp was never a trouble, actually i was burning soo much mp that i was thinking i was a blm at some point.

i can talk about paladin 80 (because i have it) honestly the paladin feel very good, my only grips is the fact that i end to spam holy spirit and attonement a bit too much....
i do have 2 aoe combo (one with the two melee skill and one with recquisat) and i still try to figure a good way to manage a good solo cycle.

God... this is sounding like WoW players all over again... "What the hell! They changed my class from a super clunky 50 button game to a more manageable 30 button game! Literally unplayable!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonbemSupreme

God... this is sounding like WoW players all over again... "What the hell! They changed my class from a super clunky 50 button game to a more manageable 30 button game! Literally unplayable!"

---

Sigh, if only it was that simple. But, it's not.

Another thing, Dark Arts was a nonsense ability that you had to spam constantly and I very glad they got rid of it from the rotation and put it as an icon I just have to keep an eye on. Furthermore, thank god they also got rid of Power Slash! That was a lame looking attack...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonbemSupreme

Another thing, Dark Arts was a nonsense ability and you had to spam constantly and I very glad they got rid of it from the rotation and put it as an icon I just have to keep an eye on. Furthermore, thank god they also got rid of Power Slash! That was a lame looking attack...

---

Lol, hold on. I had to read this a second time.

So, you're glad they got rid of Dark Arts because you needed to spam it, but you're also glad you only have one single target combo now that you're forced to spam? What are you even talking about dude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonbemSupreme

Another thing, Dark Arts was a nonsense ability that you had to spam constantly and I very glad they got rid of it from the rotation and put it as an icon I just have to keep an eye on.

---

Are you glad that Darkside is also now just an icon that you keep your eye on while spamming Edge/Flood constantly into your one combo rotation ?

6.0 to don't lose the tradition we remove soul eater combo, now DRK is all spaming bloodspiller please looking forward to it.
yuhuuu the job is super fast now, it feels good it have a lot of identity.

That's our future.

I’ve heard that Paladin is in a far better state right now and while it’s tempting to switch I just don’t have the energy or enthusiasm to level my Paladin again (sitting at 54 since HW). If this is the route the game will be taking (and potentially doubling down on it) I’m not sure I want to stick around anymore which makes me sad because I’ve been subbed for over three straight years and never once doubted the game.

And yet here we are still spamming 1-2-3 just without DA. Instead of giving something interesting to do Square instead doubled down on the boring design. MP management was way easier than it was in HW sure, but you still had to be careful about what you were spamming as it was still easy to bottom out your magic. Killing our haste buff with blood weapon was also a terrible idea.

MP is harder to generate, but we barely have anything to spend it on. As long as you keep at least 6,000 MP in reserve you can basically spam whatever you want when it comes to the shadow moves and still easily have enough to use TBN when necessary. We basically have nothing to manage anymore other than dark side which it ridiculously easy to keep up. One combo, nothing to manage, a shallow tool kit, I’m just not seeing the complexity you’re referring to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EpicOverlord85

I’ve heard that Paladin is in a far better state right now and while it’s tempting to switch I just don’t have the energy or enthusiasm to level my Paladin again (sitting at 54 since HW). If this is the route the game will be taking (and potentially doubling down on it) I’m not sure I want to stick around anymore which makes me sad because I’ve been subbed for over three straight years and never once doubted the game.

---

PLD and WAR evolved and are more fun now, PLD specially get some extra mechanics that looks pretty interesting and they reduce the cast time of holy spirit so it will be more smooth.
GNB on the other hand have a nice rotation and feels pretty rewarding to play at the same time busy with minimum downtimes, it's a good alternative if you like old DRK.

Btw you can edit you first post to ignore the initial limit.

We’re still spamming Soul Eater, yes, but with the caveat of having even less to do. 1-2-3 and keep dark side up, that’s Dark Knight now. Why not give us something more interesting to do like we’ve been asking for years? Why not rework the power slash combo into something more useful? Why double down on soul eater and not add anything else other than Edge and Flood?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shao32

6.0 to don't lose the tradition we remove soul eater combo, now DRK is all spaming bloodspiller please looking forward to it.
yuhuuu the job is super fast now, it feels good it have a lot of identity.

That's our future.

---

LOOOOOOOL!