So Healing is stressful uhuh yup mhmm!

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Originally Posted by Alynn

WHM has always been uncontested, NUMERO UNO, THE BEST, at raw healing.

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WHM's strength is and always has specifically been sustained AoE HPS output, of which nothing in this game is designed around outside of certain rare mechanics like Neo Exdeath's pre-enrage baby tantrum. Even then you don't need to chain heal every GCD. Burst healing, which *is* what matters? Nah WHM generally doesn't win that contest.

People... please come back complaining when you got your level 80 gear and when you played endcontent like EX and Savage fights.
I think WHM will be much more in disadvantage with stacking shields so far. AST + SCH will be meta again.
I understand the problems with MP management but did you test how piety works now?
Hope it is working good because if not... progression will be much more difficult. If healers die - fight will be over due to mp problems.
But let's just see how all works if we all are level 80.

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Originally Posted by ElainaMason

I understand the problems with MP management but did you test how piety works now?

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As I recall, people have tested that.

People have tested Piety. The tests do not look good. At all.

Also: Why is "Wait until <insert max level> here before you judge" always the relied-upon argument on a new expansion? Really, I'm wondering why? -- You don't even NEED to wait until Lv80. Just play a Savage or an Ultimate right now with the current state of SCH and you'll find it hard to see what the rationale SE designers thought with their vision of the new 5.0 Scholar. It's painful.

We don't need to wait till 80 to know what will happen.
SCH and AST will get a slight MP regen buff towards the end of 5.0.
WHM will be the dungeon runner of choice and nothing more, again.

If you wanna make healing harder than simply make enemies hit harder, why take away the DPS options that made the class fun?

The whole reason I picked up healer was bc I wanted fast queue times in dungeons and a break from the stresses of tanking.

All they did was take a job with a good bit of freedom and downtime once their job was done and made it full time job that only gets 2 15 minute breaks and the paycheck is exactly the same.

WHM was always a straight forward, reactive healer, and a progression king with strong crowd control in 4 man dungeons. On par with sch and astro and less complex to play.

The only downside to WHM I saw I saw was If I queued 8 man content with it I ran the risk of being paired up with another White Mage thus no party shield. Thats an easy fix on Duty Finder

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Originally Posted by ElainaMason

People... please come back complaining when you got your level 80 gear and when you played endcontent like EX and Savage fights.
I think WHM will be much more in disadvantage with stacking shields so far. AST + SCH will be meta again.
I understand the problems with MP management but did you test how piety works now?
Hope it is working good because if not... progression will be much more difficult. If healers die - fight will be over due to mp problems.
But let's just see how all works if we all are level 80.

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Stage 1: "You aren't getting a new healer in 5.0 because Yoshida's going to fix the existing healers and make them moar awesomer!"

Stage 2: "You can't criticize the changes until you actually play them!"

Stage 3: "You can't criticize the changes until you hit 80!" <--- WE ARE HERE

Stage 4: "Wait until the raid patch, Square will totes break with six years' worth of fight design and make them require a shedload of healing."

Stage 5: "Wait until 5.3, Square will definitely overhaul healers from the ground up mid-expansion!"

Stage 6: "Wait until 6.0, Square will introduce a new healer using the design space freed up by nuking half your kit!"

Stage 7: "You aren't getting a new healer in 6.0 because Yoshida's going to fix the existing healers and make them moar awesomer!"

This was the exact same script that played out over the past two years with Stormblood, and we're proceeding right on schedule for Shadowbringers.

Meanwhile, I've given up healing entirely and am now a happy DNC main.

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Originally Posted by Punslinger

snip.

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Did you just... Make a destination step-by-step process of White Knighting? Daaang.

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Originally Posted by Freerider

Whm is having a way easier time with everything than Astro and Scholar are. Whm needs a nerf a bit to their mana or their costs need to match us. No offense happy you guys are doing well. Sch and astro just feel rough.

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WHM has spent roughly three years (or more, depending on your point of view) in the shitter compared to other healers. During that time, WHM mains across time and space begged for fixes and buffs that would help them at least compete with the other two healers. Now, at the very second WHM appears to have some sort of advantage, even if only one, even if only a minor one, you want it to be nerfed? Instead of buffing the other two? Ludicrous.

And yet, as much as it pains me to say it, SE will likely agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Aetherstar

Did you just... Make a destination step-by-step process of White Knighting? Daaang.

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That, and a recollection of the past two years.

I'm currently in the not quite disillusioned phase WHM is finally in a good place while the people that are no longer OP are losing thier minds over it. I'm sure that will wear off in a week and I'll be complaining with everyone else.

Why can't we stop the WHM vs... SCH vs.... AST vs .... Its like Android vs Apple Wars it goes nowhere....

Why cant we have three classes where they're balanced and please all. I dont think any decent human would wish ill of anyone else having a crap playing experience with their preference.

I don't mind spending more time healing. I main a healer because I like healing, but the adjustments to the jobs have dulled them down and made the lines blurry. AST cards are now just a distraction that builds to the same result and essentially should just be two buttons that give either a random amount DPS buff to the group or the individual. SCH lost its versatility (switching between Selene and Eos for different types of fights). WHM feels overpowered. All of them feel less challenging. Just because people main healers does not mean that they should not get a level of strategy or a variety of jobs to play beyond managing mana.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

And as soon as we have something, people come crying for it again. Yeah, I see how you want us to improve. Decide already. Do you want WHM to be viable, or do you want to have everything it got with your extras and then want to laugh? Because I see the latter in posts like the one I quoted above. And that's been the case ever since ARR.

"We need AoE heals on par with WHM, we need aggro reduce like WHM, we need a Cure III equivalent like WHM"
Stop crying for everything WHM has and finally demand diversity instead. Stop digging away the ground under our feet and accept equality (not that we actually have that...).

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Um, I usually play both WHM and AST. Usually, WHM first because progression with it is really smooth, and I really love it's simplicity. But, it just hasn't ever been close to Kann-E Senna level, or fully embraced being an embodiment of light and nature's wrath or blessings. But, BLM still doesn't pre-cast spells for later use, nor is it able to continue a cast from it's last stopping point either.

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Originally Posted by Ftail

WHM has been neglected for years, this is a revenge story.

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Totally. I've had to read similar sentiments and barbs towards BRD like this for years...

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

snip

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Oh, WHM was butcherd? Nope. SE believes that the best way to balancing healers is exactly the same as the tnking classes: by all of them having acces to a common set of core skills and abillities, because HLR & TNK roles have specialized functions. They could try reraise or full-cure, or just actually give WHM an AOE float. FYI, whm has been super bland since FFI, and is basically the base design for all healers in Final Fantasy

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

I'm currently in the not quite disillusioned phase WHM is finally in a good place while the people that are no longer OP are losing thier minds over it. I'm sure that will wear off in a week and I'll be complaining with everyone else.

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Um, no. Also, BRD didn't have have like 10000000000000000000000 dmg per minute parses in Heavensward like the rumors. It's the utility kits/buffs

So far from what I gather from Japanese forums they aren't happy about the changes either, but that was using google translate, if you all have spare time we can still upvote posts in there but you will need both a google translate window open and a logged in version open unless you can cba to log in again.

take all translations with a pinch of salt though, you can actually see a lot of the healer changes like protect and cleric stance came from them, and they all dps while healing too it seems. So there is still hope, we can cokmmunicate with the devs by upvoting there posts which reflect our opinions :)

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Originally Posted by ParadoxHealer

I don't mind spending more time healing. I main a healer because I like healing, but the adjustments to the jobs have dulled them down and made the lines blurry. AST cards are now just a distraction that builds to the same result and essentially should just be two buttons that give either a random amount DPS buff to the group or the individual. SCH lost its versatility (switching between Selene and Eos for different types of fights). WHM feels overpowered. All of them feel less challenging. Just because people main healers does not mean that they should not get a level of strategy or a variety of jobs to play beyond managing mana.

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BRD whas stormblood god tier atleast they were in one expansion the range dps kings. Scaling the most with the best stat and bringing it for free whas busted ofc brd whas so bad for so so long. Whm whas has since years on end and they stilled buffed Astro hard in the last stormblood raid tier and now the whms are still normal only ast and sch got kicked in the ground and off they demand better mana Regen or whm nerfs. Atleast give the job with no raid utility a advantage

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WHM has spent roughly three years (or more, depending on your point of view) in the shitter compared to other healers. During that time, WHM mains across time and space begged for fixes and buffs that would help them at least compete with the other two healers. Now, at the very second WHM appears to have some sort of advantage, even if only one, even if only a minor one, you want it to be nerfed? Instead of buffing the other two? Ludicrous.

And yet, as much as it pains me to say it, SE will likely agree with you.

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Agree here. As a player that healed mainly as SCH, I think SE should just give more mechanics to help SCH and AST manage their MP to compensate for their lack of MP preservation, while letting the WHM being the efficient MP user. Also pretty fitting lore wise as WHM take the vast amount of mana from the environment. Design wise is good too, as WHM is considered the more straightforward and simpler healer, and having easier MP management contributes to this design idea, while its difficulty and fun elements lie on other aspects of the job. Nerfing WHM isn't the way really (if anything, I really would love them gaining more utility to make them more competitive in raiding). The big issues is that we have no way to deal with lack of MP in any way. So we either do not play to our maximum capacity and avoid DPSing too much for fear of running out of MP, or literally sit still to conserve MP. We have not enough mechanics that deal with this. If anything, it would be quite nice if we could have more ways to manage our MP besides doing nothing. Literally poping Lucid Dreaming as much as possible, while only using oGCD heals and DPS constantly and either run out of MP or come close to do so.

My 2 cents on healing in 5.0 as a level 80 whm (yes, the <--- hasn't updated yet for... reasons.

Yes, right now it seems healing is a lot more necessary. BUT that's exactly how it felt in Stormblood too. In higher dungeons and as people geared I find healing to be just about what you'd see in Stormblood. I have not done the EX fights yet, but I have cleared the MSQ and am in expert roulette.


Soloing absolutely sucks and Solo duties are equally boring and way too long. The healer role quests are laughable and WTF SE?! You took repose into Role Actions

See reason here if you're not super sensitive on extremely minor spoilers: (it's an extremely minor one, no names, no story)

JUST FOR THE F-ING level 80 role quest?! ROFLMAO? Yay? Repose has a use... in exactly ONE high level quest. WTG team. /jadedsarcasm

All in all? I might just play Dancer... because that looks fun.

As an AST i love those 4k Aspected Helios on players with over 70k hp... I don't get the heal % formula on this expansion.

Seems healing potencies feel so weak and awkward. And the 'Mind' scaling is barely noticeable.

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Originally Posted by Yomiko_Nonaka

but but but, are you a tank who know how to use his CD ? real question here !

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I push my buttons, yeah.
Sadly, this seems like a skill lost on some.

Tbh noticed the wave of wannabe tank taking the new job and acting like the worse kind of tank, not poping cds and trying to mass pull to the wall, without giving any notice or note the party composition to assure there are classes which can do good aoe damage.
So far I've managed to heal and do dps and don't find it stressful since now i can use my full toolkit of healing spells, even the emergency ones, which rarely were needed.
Like always will level astro and sch after i've reached 80 with Whm, but so far i can't say it's that bad as people make it to be and need more crunching before I can give any definitive feedback.




Also Hail Canadane!

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Originally Posted by cougarel

Tbh noticed the wave of wannabe tank taking the new job and acting like the worse kind of tank, not poping cds and trying to mass pull to the wall, without giving any notice or note the party composition to assure there are classes which can do good aoe damage.

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I think the issue might be a little more complex than just being the tanks fault tbh. I was farming the level 75 dungeon last night because it was good fun after how much the 73 dungeon bored me. In one of those runs I got a tank that had just been kicked from a group for mass pulling. He was absolutely fine, other than maybe not picking up the first boss gimmick quick enough I couldn't fault him. However his mistake was likely not to mention that he was planning on mass pulling and ironically, he didn't even say it to us either. It wasn't until a few packs in that he mentioned it :rolleyes:

As a healer, I'd honestly recommend that if you're not comfortable with mass pulling, you should probably say as such at the start of duty.

My problem is not the mass pulling or lack of communication , is the use of running straight to the pack before the others are fully loaded.
5-10 seconds delay won't make it faster and in the end if you don't read the party composition you end doing more bad than good if the classes you're with are not burning the mobs fast enough.



Usually i tend to feel the party and adjust to the pace fine, just that when i see someone doing this, it irks me, that's all there is to it.

I don't usually get annoyed , but the behavior is at fault here, not the class .

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I push my buttons, yeah.
Sadly, this seems like a skill lost on some.

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it's not lost. they never had it

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Originally Posted by cougarel

My problem is not the mass pulling or lack of communication , is the use of running straight to the pack before the others are fully loaded.
5-10 seconds delay won't make it faster and in the end if you don't read the party composition you end doing more bad than good if the classes you're with are not burning the mobs fast enough.



Usually i tend to feel the party and adjust to the pace fine, just that when i see someone doing this, it irks me, that's all there is to it.

I don't usually get annoyed , but the behavior is at fault here, not the class .

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Yeah, protect in dungeons was like a starting signal

As a tank that pulled wall to wall while leveling, I apologize.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

As a tank that pulled wall to wall while leveling, I apologize.

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Don't apologise, just ask before you do it, I love a tank who pulls wall to wall personally. I love a challenge. It's the ones who don't ask people who get them upset.

the tanks I hate are the ones who pull 3 at a time an p.much afk without asking me if I wanted to pull big, nearly as bad as Cure 2 spammers lol