The finalized 5.0 healer changes revealed (links)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sieben79

I wondering, why Whm didn't get a Lily consuming dps spell. Transcendent Afflatus: Adds a Blood Lily to the Healing Gauge that blooms after three uses of Afflatus Solace or Afflatus Rapture.
There is not always a use for healing. Getting up the Blood Lily for Afflatus Misery can result in useless overheal.

---

Probably the same reason SCH lost our DPS skills from Aetherflow. Devs don't want us to have them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylve

I didn't feel like listing out every GCD heal since since I was mainly pointing out that GCD heals are the only ones affected.

Since Dissipation puts the Fairy away … Of course the Fairy doesn't benefit?

My point is that when using our respective Healing Potency boost, only the GCD heals are affected. As such, ALL Healers are impacted if the buff doesn't get extended to Abilities. Some more than others and I never said otherwise.
Dissipation is underpowered in general because it shunts the Fairy away. Being locked out of Fairy Healing is more detrimental than the potency buff covers. Especially in ShB with so much of the new stuff being built around the Fairy.

---

I kinda forgot about it taking away the faerie, to be fair, because that wasn't what I was looking for at the time and I never use the skill anyways.

I was just pointing out how...Completely underwhelming the skill was as a whole, and your initial comment made it seem to me that you were saying that it was okay because AST and WHM (Who have more GCD heals) have the same effect.

And yes, I do think 15 seconds of crit adlo, even with the change to how it works, would be busted. I would love every second of it, mind you, but you can't say that isn't busted.

But we have also other healing abilitys like Tetra, Bene, Regen, Asylum, Assize or Medica 2. Either I use up a lily everytimes it pops or I hold them and use them 3 times for a full Blood Lily. Or maybe two in a row. Or I have a full Blood Lily reserved and three normals so using Misery, use the 3 Lily up and use Misery again. Would be a waste to not use a 900 potency attack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sieben79

But we have also other healing abilitys like Tetra, Bene, Regen, Asylum, Assize or Medica 2. Either I use up a lily everytimes it pops or I hold them and use them 3 times for a full Blood Lily. Or maybe two in a row. Or I have a full Blood Lily reserved and three normals so using Misery, use the 3 Lily up and use Misery again. Would be a waste to not use a 900 potency attack.

---

SCH have to use Aetherflow to build up our Faerie Gauge to use skills, and everything involved with it is healing related now. The fact that WHM builds up to a DPS skill is almost surprising at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilenya

I kinda forgot about it taking away the faerie, to be fair, because that wasn't what I was looking for at the time and I never use the skill anyways.

I was just pointing out how...Completely underwhelming the skill was as a whole, and your initial comment made it seem to me that you were saying that it was okay because AST and WHM (Who have more GCD heals) have the same effect.

And yes, I do think 15 seconds of crit adlo, even with the change to how it works, would be busted. I would love every second of it, mind you, but you can't say that isn't busted.

---

Well I'm not sure i'd call it broken. The effects on Temperance and Neutral Sect are absurdly good too. If we see more raidwides like Tumult (continuous blasts of damage), SCH would get left behind hard by the other 2 because it'd have no way to deal with rapid incoming AoEs unless it blows all its MP on Succors since we only get 1 Indom. Or even rapid single target busters.
SCH is all about planning when and where to utilize its stuff, Recitation would act almost like a "Plan B: Sh!t has hit the fan" button. It'd be pretty flavorful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sieben79

But we have also other healing abilitys like Tetra, Bene, Regen, Asylum, Assize or Medica 2. Either I use up a lily everytimes it pops or I hold them and use them 3 times for a full Blood Lily. Or maybe two in a row. Or I have a full Blood Lily reserved and three normals so using Misery, use the 3 Lily up and use Misery again. Would be a waste to not use a 900 potency attack.

---

Well then. Its almost like we have some flexibility in how we want to heal people.

I'll see it during the weekend if the healers need to heal more than usual. But for now I think Whm kit is overbloated with the two Lily consuming spells that do what the older skills already did. No costs, instant and limited skills, sure nice to have but necessary? Let's see^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sieben79

I'll see it during the weekend if the healers need to heal more than usual. But for now I think Whm kit is overbloated with the two Lily consuming spells that do what the older skills already did. No costs, instant and limited skills, sure nice to have but necessary? Let's see^^

---

No, frankly, they should have been oGCD, in my opinion, but whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sieben79

I wondering, why Whm didn't get a Lily consuming dps spell. Transcendent Afflatus: Adds a Blood Lily to the Healing Gauge that blooms after three uses of Afflatus Solace or Afflatus Rapture.
There is not always a use for healing. Getting up the Blood Lily for Afflatus Misery can result in useless overheal.

---

You don't want to build up for Afflatus Misery on purpose though. The whole thing cost 4 GCDs for 900 potency, which could be spent on 4 Glares for 1200 potency total instead.
So, unlike SCH, you don't want to use Afflatus Rapture and Solace for nothing just to get the Blood Lily. (Except during times where you can't interact with the boss and are about to lose a Lily. And also for AoE.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualblade

My very limited understanding is that its basically a way to be DPS neutral for WHM, they sacrifice some dps time for healing then get the dps back with Afflatus Misery later on.

---

Pretty much, yeah. It allows WHM to spend some GCD on healing without feeling that they are losing a lot of DPS doing so. I think it's a good alternative to the overload of oGCDs that has been going on since Heavensward, and that they should go forward on that path for 6.0 and try to get something similar to other healers. Or at least something that achieve the same feeling, without having to sacrifice stuff like Energy Drain in the process.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

You don't want to build up for Afflatus Misery on purpose though. The whole thing cost 4 GCDs for 900 potency, which could be spent on 4 Glares for 1200 potency total instead.
So, unlike SCH, you don't want to use Afflatus Rapture and Solace for nothing just to get the Blood Lily. (Except during times where you can't interact with the boss and are about to lose a Lily. And also for AoE.)

---

Ok, that I feel is valid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

You don't want to build up for Afflatus Misery on purpose though. The whole thing cost 4 GCDs for 900 potency, which could be spent on 4 Glares for 1200 potency total instead.
So, unlike SCH, you don't want to use Afflatus Rapture and Solace for nothing just to get the Blood Lily. (Except during times where you can't interact with the boss and are about to lose a Lily. And also for AoE.)

---

My very limited understanding is that its basically a way to be DPS neutral for WHM, they sacrifice some dps time for healing then get the dps back with Afflatus Misery later on.

If AST is gonna be the "damage" buffer i dont think a 3 min build up for a measly 6% potency AoE buff is worth it.

If they are going to keep that potency then the CD has to be lowered to 120 secs. If they want to keep the 180 sec CD the the potency should be increased to at least 8%

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RulerOfPotaoes

If AST is gonna be the "damage" buffer i dont think a 3 min build up for a measly 6% potency AoE buff is worth it.

If they are going to keep that potency then the CD has to be lowered to 120 secs. If they want to keep the 180 sec CD the the potency should be increased to at least 8%

---

Divination isn't a card buff. Theoretically the effect could stack with cards. Which means combined with Sleeve Draw you could feasibly get Lord/Lady on at least 2 DPS and then trigger a Divination on stored Seals (Lord/Lady don't have Seals associated), So it'd be around 14% on the Jobs that matter for Damage Buffs. Pop that in sync with Chain Strat/Battle Litany inside a Trick Attack? The combined damage output would be insane.

It'd also be pretty crap if a 6% buff overwrote an 8% buff from Lord/Lady. Wouldn't put it past them, but still.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

All of this.

Plus, now we also have to look forward to two more years of them trying to "balance" healers, until the next expansion comes around and we're graced with, wait for it . . . two more DPS jobs again, and more excuses as to why we can't have a new healer job.

---

Well, I mean Ninja and Dragoon have to share gear with SOMETHING right? /s

There are the two dps jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crushnight

ah yes after re reading it sacred soil does not gain its regen effect until lv78. still better in every way to Collective Unconscious and it gives fairy gauge which helps sch more XD

so any lv78+ schs if i don't see sacred soil every 30s while fighting you better be dancing the manderville mambo

---

Can't count the number of times I've been on my WHM only to drop Asylum and see tanks (and everyone else) stand outside of it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilenya

Main issue with this is that basically every SCH healing skill is an ability and not affected by Dissipation.

---

You still get three Aetherflow stacks with Dissipation which is 1,800 potency worth of healing to burst with. This value gets even better with other Aetherflow ability that are off cooldown / about to come back online during those 30 seconds. This 1,800 potency already surpass the 1,500 potency your fairy will provide during those 30s; and that's assuming the 150 potency from the pet = 150 potency from the SCH - something we'll need to test once ShB goes live. 1,500 fairy potency is closer to 990 SCH potency with the current way pet healing potency is calculated.

I always found the healing+ on Dissipation to be pretty pointless since SCH's entire kit revolves around good CD management - if you're ever at a point on SCH where you're relying on GCD heals to maintain your party, something has gone south fairly quickly at that point. [Edit] Just rethinking this comment for a moment - we'll probably see more Dissipation used to augment Deploy+Adlo since the stacks you gain will surpass the fairy healing, assuming the fairy cannot use anything but embrace during those 30s anyway. Something good SCHs will be able to build their CD management around and take full advantage of all the different CDs the SCH kit gives them.

Only buff I'd ask for Dissipation at this point is to not "unsummon" the fairy but instead Silence / Pacify the fairy so the SCH can continue to build Fey Gauge while taking advantage of these three stacks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylve

10 potency. Malefic lost TEN potency. You know whats probably worth more than 10 potency? A near permanent 8% +Damage buff that we can now keep on ourselves thanks to the card changes. So literally no change or a very very minor damage buff at worse. Combust got it worse, going from 50p to 35p. Made up again slightly by the Card buff, but not quite as much.

---

50% uptime in solo content is one helluva stretch for the description of "near permanent". If the lights were on for half the time I was in a room, I wouldn't call the room "near permanently illuminated".

That being said, 10 potency lost from a 220 base equals to 4.5%. Assuming that the AST use Minor Arcana on self with every card on cooldown, you can translate the buff from 8% with 50% uptime to 4% with 100% uptime. So If you're standing there only casting Malefic II with no clipping ad infinitum there is a slight loss with the new potencies and cards. Combust, in turn, was changed from 500 total potency to 350 total potency - a loss of 30%. No card in the world is going to compensate for that.

When it comes down to it, ASTs have the lowest direct damage and over time damage potency-per-MP efficiency among the healers and I'm unconvinced that the cards provide sufficient offset in terms of rDPS. At least all cards provide an easily quantifiable boost to damage. Shame about the flavour though.

As for the "potency changes" it is true that 1 potency in StB can't be equated to 1 potency in ShB. But surely potencies within a job and between jobs in ShB are comparable (e.g. an AST dealing 100 potency worth of damage should be the same as a WHM dealing 100 potency worth of damage)? Unless we're expecting SQEX to be using vastly different formulas for different jobs and actions, which sounds like madness.

Such things aside, one of the more egregious points is the state of Collective Unconcious and Celestial Opposition which feel like they're too weak compared to their counterparts in WHM and SCH - and it's not like ASTs can throw cards at their healing actions to make them stronger or increase ally mitigation anymore. In my eyes, the effects are too weak for the cooldowns given.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DuskTS

Wow they've ruined everything I loved about playing Healer. Literally unplayable.

---

If you want to communicate your feelings about the changes, say so, and use words that describe feelings. Disappointment and disgust come to mind.

If you want to communicate that there are things wrong with 5.0 healers, describe their mechanics honestly. "Simplistic and boring damage options", "homogeneous damage and healing options across the Healer category", "emphasis on expanding healing kits that is disconnected from the low amount of healing required by FFXIV content".

Dishonest exaggerations such as "literally unplayable" make it less likely that complaints about the lousy 5.0 healers will be taken seriously. They'll play just fine and the obvious and expected reaction from non-healers (and likely SE as well) will be "those whiners are full of crap".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

All of this.

Plus, now we also have to look forward to two more years of them trying to "balance" healers, until the next expansion comes around and we're graced with, wait for it . . . two more DPS jobs again, and more excuses as to why we can't have a new healer job.

---

Also the fact that there were no healer mains in the media tour and like almost no questions regarding healers in interviews. Why is SE so scared of healers? Or do they dislike this role?
Balancing is one point and some things might make sense but overall the changes are just ridiculous. Most of them make no sense and do not help new players to play a healer because on max lvl they will find out that all healers are almost the same just different skins.

This game is based on subs and therefore the community should be heard.
If SE is not reaching out to the healer community this time and do things correctly what should the playerbase think of them? It is not like FFXIV is the only game on the market so why should they behave like this towards the healer playerbase?

Quote:

---

What a joke... I went from being a pure WHM main for years to now feeling pretty grossed out and even disgusted thinking about levelling a healer into ShB. They really have no clue or desire on how to make healers fun or engaging. White Mage got Divine Seal back for their level 80 cap ability, Scholar got their DPS gutted and AST’s potencies and new card system is hilariously bad and boring. It’s a good thing they added the trust system in time for these appalling healer “additions” (more like culling) so I don’t have to wait for healers anymore.

Why not just delete the healers and be done with it, Square? That seems like it would be the route most appealing to you given how uninspired and out of touch these healer “balancing” acts have been. The fact that Yoshi P didn’t even REALISE people were upset at getting no new healers speaks volumes on how out of touch they are on the matter, it’s kinda sad...

---

This but I still have the feeling that they already almost deleted the healers and made them into being just different skins of each other(PvP and PvE). I am super angry and disappointed today.

Anyone have a good guess as to why Collective Unconscious was nerfed like that? Because that feels...VERY questionable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilenya

Anyone have a good guess as to why Collective Unconscious was nerfed like that? Because that feels...VERY questionable.

---

If I were to hazard a guess, they probably thought it was too strong on its own and reduced. Not wanting to have the mitigation go on too, I think they changed CO to make it have similar potency together (250+400) which ironically is still weaker than prenerf CU without old CO.

Honestly though. I have no idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maltothoris

If I were to hazard a guess, they probably thought it was too strong on its own and reduced. Not wanting to have the mitigation go on too, I think they changed CO to make it have similar potency together (250+400) which ironically is still weaker than prenerf CU without old CO.

Honestly though. I have no idea.

---

Like, I could potentially see the change if not for the fact it is still channeled. I seem to recall some of the buff lasts outside the channel, but unless the duration is long enough, that's still pretty unhelpful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilenya

Anyone have a good guess as to why Collective Unconscious was nerfed like that? Because that feels...VERY questionable.

---

I'd imagine it was because compared to Asylum it was too good.

Original CU is easier to use, gives more healing than Asylum, same CD as Asylum, and provides damage mitigation towards the initial raid buster hit.

With that being said, I'd rather they buffed Asylum instead of nerf CU. If they gave Asylum the same treatment that CU got in the sense that Asylum grants a HoT that could be refreshed when you re-enter the area of effect, I'd be much happier with Asylum.

I truly enjoy that SCH's capstone ability is to summon a discount WHM.

At least I can still kill people with Fluid Aura in PvP. So thanks for that, SE.

So what I don't get it I thought Collective Unconscious had a good heal because it was a channeled smaller bubble compared the easy movable non channeled sacred soil. Also why do we still not have potencies for Horoscope?
And do cards stack on with the Lord and Lady versions? I feel that they don't but I have seen in media tour videos at least that they do stack with divination.

Why do SE don't understand that we like playing healer because we love complexity and the feeling to be constantly pressured ?

Who ask SE to casualize healer ? Not us for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ahrijlaken

Why do SE don't understand that we like playing healer because we love complexity and the feeling to be constantly pressured ?

Who ask SE to casualize healer ? Not us for sure.

---

I just wish there was a way we could just get a response from them that they are listening to us, it's going to be so frustrating waiting for this, maybe contact people who get often involved in media events with info to pass on or something IDK :/ how do we even begin to tackle this.

is update done yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fantasticm

I truly enjoy that SCH's capstone ability is to summon a discount WHM.

At least I can still kill people with Fluid Aura in PvP. So thanks for that, SE.

---

I thought they were summoning another, smaller scholar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilenya

Anyone have a good guess as to why Collective Unconscious was nerfed like that? Because that feels...VERY questionable.

---

It honestly seems like a glaring oversight. Even if you rationalize the nerf itself, you need only look at Sacred Soil and wonder what in the world they were thinking. They're either immensely overvaluing 10% mitigation or CU will get buffed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilenya

Anyone have a good guess as to why Collective Unconscious was nerfed like that? Because that feels...VERY questionable.

---

Because it has a pretty spell effect.

I doubt that's true, but it probably makes more sense than the actual reason.

Playing as a white mage seems like a blast, we only lost aero 3 and all the new abilities seem nice. I feel bad for other healers though.

1 minute past now im angry

1596 in que, i quit see you next update

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

All of this.

Plus, now we also have to look forward to two more years of them trying to "balance" healers, until the next expansion comes around and we're graced with, wait for it . . . two more DPS jobs again, and more excuses as to why we can't have a new healer job.

---

Do you really want them to mangle a 4th healer job after they botched sch & Astro?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naychan

Do you really want them to mangle a 4th healer job after they botched sch & Astro?

---

Well, yes, if anything that's more reason to want a new healer. One custom built for these new healer paradigms instead of being wedged into it.
Just look at how smooth RDM, SAM and DNC's rotations are.

But also, because now they've brought all the healers down to a new baseline, they can only be built back up in 6.0, to whatever form they want healers to take now.

Welp, I was right.

Divination stacks with Lord/Lady.
This means that with proper card play, you can put up a 14% damage boost across the entire party. With 2 ASTs in a Full Party, You can either do this for 30 seconds straight by casting them in succession, or having the second AST cover the 4 party members not affected by the first ASTs Lord/Ladies and then using a weaker 6% party buff afterwards.

So sustained medium burst over 30 seconds or concentrated big burst over 15 seconds and then a second 15 seconds of weak boost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaMett

It's all ok. They fixed dissipation to be in combat only.

---

WHAT!? You mean I can't eat my fairy and get back 6 hearts? I've been swindled.

My annoyance with Dissipation is, it's meant to be a clutch skill, acts like like a buff skill, but plays like a broken skill. Dissipation could be good, but it took them 2 expansions to add in resummoning the fairy. And the main use people found for it, DPS, is gone now since SCH no longer has an Aetherflow dump. Also, the buff to Ruin 2 is nice, but at this point why not just replace it like when Ruin became Broil. We basically have nothing offensive to weave now, since all of our Offensive skills are on the GCD.