5.0 Crafting Changes

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07-08-2019, 08:49 PM
Nixxe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plastics

WN is better than manip2 now, and brow is mostly unnecessary, it'd only be useful in some cases for specialist macros because of the 100%. In single button macros we can easily get to IQ8+.

What we can get is irrelevant. The point is efficiency, which means not wasting time on unnecessary steps.
07-09-2019, 01:22 AM
Liam_Harper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleanse

Maria Nyan's 1 button time saver is great...

Seems decent, though it doesn't seem to leave you with spare Progress if your Careful's aren't enough. I'm currently using:

Non-Specialist:

Quote:

/ac "Inner Quiet" <wait.2>
/ac "Manipulation II" <wait.2>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Preparatory Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Advanced Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity II" <wait.2>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Name of the Elements" <wait.2>
/ac "Brand of the Elements" <wait.3>

Specialist:

Quote:

/ac "Initial Preparations" <wait.3>
/ac "Inner Quiet" <wait.2>
/ac "Specialty: Reflect" <wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation II" <wait.2>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Preparatory Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Preparatory Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity II" <wait.2>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Name of the Elements" <wait.2>
/ac "Brand of the Elements" <wait.3>

If you're lv70 or struggling for Progress you switch the Preparatory for Prudent. These should leave enough spare Durability that you can finish the craft manually with an extra Brand or two if needed and should work fine for gear and under-leveled crafts. Not saying they're optimal, just throwing out what I have for now, feel free to tweak and improve.
07-09-2019, 01:47 AM
Cleanse

I think the macro I posted was only for 71-74 or so... The full list can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...eview?sle=true
07-09-2019, 01:55 AM
Buuhuu

Once I hit level 71, I used this rotation for the level 71/73/76: 40 durability items.
It is relatively CP (424) and Craftsmanship friendly and still produces really good quality and can be used with one button, if needed it has still one action left to be completed (or quality to increase with before Blessing) :)

/ac "Muscle Memory" <wait.3>
/ac "Inner Quiet" <wait.2>
/ac Observe <wait.3>
/ac "Focused Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation II" <wait.2>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Waste Not" <wait.2>
/ac Innovation <wait.2>
/ac "Preparatory Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Preparatory Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Preparatory Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Steady Hand" <wait.2>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis III"

Edit: When enough CP you can exchange innovation for ingenuity, add another prudent touch after steady hand (use SH II then), add innovation with inguenity at the end etc. I changed this base relatively often, to increase the quality. But with my stats it was enough until level 78/79er recipies^^
07-09-2019, 03:56 AM
Shadygrove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadygrove

My production macros for L 60 - 70 gear work just fine so far.

I suppose I should post them...

Stats: Crafts 1769, Cont 1652, 492 CPs. No food needed. Before 72 I had to add another synthsis step.

/ac "Muscle Memory" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Comfort Zone" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Inner Quiet" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Touch" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Touch" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Master's Mend" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Touch" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Touch" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Touch" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Master's Mend" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <me> <wait.3>
/echo NEXT <se.1>

/ac "Steady Hand" <me> <wait.2>
/ac Innovation <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Piece by Piece" <me> <wait.3>
/ac "Observe" <wait.3>
/ac "Focused Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis III"
/echo DONE!
07-09-2019, 06:35 AM
Plastics

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixxe

What we can get is irrelevant. The point is efficiency, which means not wasting time on unnecessary steps.

It's not irrelevant. There are virtually no cases where brow would still be useful, even as spec, including optimized short rotations.
07-09-2019, 12:55 PM
BoazJochin

I just use my 4* macros up until 80 still. I use my 65-70 non spec macro to 75. nothing has really changed that much that I can tell.
07-09-2019, 08:59 PM
StouterTaru
Quote:

Originally Posted by Plastics

It's not irrelevant. There are virtually no cases where brow would still be useful, even as spec, including optimized short rotations.
- Miracle Brow rotation for high end crafts. Full IQ Byr Miracle drops you to IQ6, where Blessing and Brow were equal potency, Brow was 6 CP less, and Brow didn't require SH for 100% success on specialist
- Macros for specialist stuff around your level, saving a line by only needing 1 SH
- Macro protection against Poor condition Blessing (in 3.x, killed in 4.0)
07-10-2019, 02:12 AM
Nixxe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plastics

It's not irrelevant. There are virtually no cases where brow would still be useful, even as spec, including optimized short rotations.

So there are a non-zero number of benefits to Brow being in the game and zero benefits to removing Brow. Thanks for making my case for me.
07-10-2019, 05:57 PM
Plastics
Quote:
Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Miracle Brow rotation for high end crafts. Full IQ Byr Miracle drops you to IQ6, where Blessing and Brow were equal potency, Brow was 6 CP less, and Brow didn't require SH for 100% success on specialist

Macros for specialist stuff around your level, saving a line by only needing 1 SH

Macro protection against Poor condition Blessing (in 3.x, killed in 4.0)
1. We gain stacks so efficiently and quickly now that the rotation that will be used is Miracle Blessing if the difficulty is high enough. Try the new abilities, IQ 6 is irrelevant today, we're not in SB or HW.
2. The current short rotations and the current meta with the control cap means you will *always* use Blessing. When you get short enough to think Brow would be useful, you're better off doing it without IQ at all, which is a better strategy given we have new abilities. Again, we have new abilities for irrelevant easy shit that make Brow completely redundant. Try them out.
3. Nobody actually does this, and it can be done without Brow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixxe

So there are a non-zero number of benefits to Brow being in the game and zero benefits to removing Brow. Thanks for making my case for me.

Both of these make massive assumptions, while denying entirely the fact that Brow has zero relevant use right now. The only use it had in the game was rarely in leveling (e.g. very bad strategies around RNG and using Brow if you fail too much, so a handicap for people who don't don't matter) and master crafts. It's completely useless in master crafts now, and it isn't even close to actually useful for leveling. Keeping it would've had no benefit. We don't know what kind of maintenance cost is involved or internal testing SE did that made them want to remove it, but they did, so this assumption is bad. There was a benefit, that's why they did it.

What it sounds like, mainly, is you're crying your old macros don't work anymore and you'll need to do something different. That's pretty sad, don't be so garbage at crafting.
07-10-2019, 10:09 PM
StouterTaru
Quote:

Originally Posted by Plastics

1. We gain stacks so efficiently and quickly now that the rotation that will be used is Miracle Blessing if the difficulty is high enough. Try the new abilities, IQ 6 is irrelevant today, we're not in SB or HW.
2. The current short rotations and the current meta with the control cap means you will *always* use Blessing. When you get short enough to think Brow would be useful, you're better off doing it without IQ at all, which is a better strategy given we have new abilities. Again, we have new abilities for irrelevant easy shit that make Brow completely redundant. Try them out.
3. Nobody actually does this, and it can be done without Brow.
1. You don't seem to understand Byregot's Miracle.
2. IQ > SH2 > WN > 4x Prepatory Touch > GS > Blessing needs a 2nd SH
  Do that on a recipe around your level, and show me a comparable way to get the same quality without IQ.
3. Nobody actually does it because it only existed during 3.x, when Brow required Good/Excellent condition.
07-10-2019, 11:45 PM
Nixxe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plastics

Both of these make massive assumptions, while denying entirely the fact that Brow has zero relevant use right now.

You already conceded the point that Brow is better than Blessing in at least some situations, even if you don't personally feel those situations are important. You're too caught up in trying to defend SE's decision to realize what an asinine argument you're putting forward against an utterly innocuous criticism of a design decision. By your own admission, you don't even understand why they changed it; you simply assume that because they changed it they must have had a good reason, thus it's a good change. This is an obvious example of begging the question. Furthermore, having failed to silence the criticism, you're now trying to twist this to make it a personal attack against me. This really isn't a productive use of my time, and I would encourage you to take a break to learn how to discuss things constructively.
07-14-2019, 06:24 PM
KageTokage

Is there any meaningful new CP breakpoint that can be reached in the current gear?

DoL only gets around 30ish more GP from their new gear, which isn't really enough to allow for anything new in their rotations.
07-15-2019, 01:14 AM
Kabooa

Quote:

Originally Posted by KageTokage

Is there any meaningful new CP breakpoint that can be reached in the current gear?

DoL only gets around 30ish more GP from their new gear, which isn't really enough to allow for anything new in their rotations.

Well, with food that breaks you past the 850 mark, meaning once you hit a higher gathering threshold you can 4x appraisal boosts and still use +5% gathering on the 95% to ensure 100%.

As for crafters, 605 CP is looking to be pretty dumb, but whether that allows for more depends on what the new gear / Ishgard is going to require.
07-15-2019, 07:47 AM
DeorNitengael

Any idea what's the required stats to 100% quick synth lvl80 mats?
07-15-2019, 05:00 PM
Thela

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeorNitengael

Any idea what's the required stats to 100% quick synth lvl80 mats?

Alot more than is possible to get at the moment if they still use the same system as previous expansions (which i doubt they changed) You won't ever reach 100% in the same tier of content.
07-16-2019, 02:53 AM
Jentaru

anyone not getting past 50% at start using full hq?
07-18-2019, 12:43 PM
Vasanta_Lockheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabooa

Well, with food that breaks you past the 850 mark meaning once you hit a higher gathering threshold you can 4x appraisal boosts and still use +5% gathering on the 95% to ensure 100%.

As for crafters, 605 CP is looking to be pretty dumb, but whether that allows for more depends on what the new gear / Ishgard is going to require.

Considering my spec rotation doesn't even use 500 CP, and that's with reuse, lol. Even one star is almost the same. Non-spec, however, uses around 530 CP with reuse. Both are less than 15 steps too. No prudent touch used either.
07-19-2019, 01:33 AM
Liam_Harper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thela

Alot more than is possible to get at the moment if they still use the same system as previous expansions (which i doubt they changed) You won't ever reach 100% in the same tier of content.

They did buff quick synth considerably during SB, it went from failing a few when mass crafting Twinsilk or Gazelle Leather in melded Ala Mhigan to full success and 20% hq rate. So it might be different this time around.
07-19-2019, 07:37 AM
Kabooa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

They did buff quick synth considerably during SB, it went from failing a few when mass crafting Twinsilk or Gazelle Leather in melded Ala Mhigan to full success and 20% hq rate. So it might be different this time around.

Ala Mhigan came in 5.1 though, didn't it? Technically not same tier gear.

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