Suggestion: Close Raid Roulete Loophole (Using low ilevel to force low level raids)

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

If people want to do specific raids, they're going to do specific raids. You putting in more rules and restrictions on people won't make them want to do the other raids, they'll just use Party Finder and again you'll be without the party members to fill your particular raid.
It sounds like you want to force people to do your raids because YOU want to do them, without a care of what the other people in the equation want to do; this is kind of further enforced by you simply not caring about what goes on in dungeons.

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I think you missunderstand the problem. Ppl would not queue for a specific raid.
They queue for the roulette to get the bonus.
And to get the bonus as fast as possible they strip themself naked to avoid the lvl 60 and 70 raids, which have of course higher ilvl requirements.

The solution would be a Job-lvl depending ilvl restriction for the roulette.

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Originally Posted by Derio

You have to remember the crystal tower raids are apart of the event so they give out the special tomes. Surely after the event things will go back to normal.

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I sure hope so because i am with the OP on this one even before the event it was constant sycrus tower ugh i want my hws raids. Void ark, weeping city, dunscaith

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Originally Posted by Laphael

I think you missunderstand the problem. Ppl would not queue for a specific raid.
They queue for the roulette to get the bonus.
And to get the bonus as fast as possible they strip themself naked to avoid the lvl 60 and 70 raids, which have of course higher ilvl requirements.
The solution would be a Job-lvl depending ilvl restriction for the roulette.

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No, i understand the problem.
People would queue for a specific raid because you don't need to use the alliance roulette to get the crystal tower; so if something like this was put into place to stop them from getting the tower through the roulette, they would use other ways to queue specifically for it and would (again) avoid the raids that the OP wants to force them to do for his sake.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

No, i understand the problem.
People would queue for a specific raid because you don't need to use the alliance roulette to get the crystal tower; so if something like this was put into place to stop them from getting the tower through the roulette, they would use other ways to queue specifically for it and would (again) avoid the raids that the OP wants to force them to do for his sake.

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But we are not talking about ppl that want to farm christal tower.

We are talking about ppl that want to do the Roulette for the bonus.

It's interesting to see that getting the 50 raids has been common for other players prior to this event as well. Sure, they're a lower level so they're more common, but I can recall for the last year it's been 90% ARR raids. I beg for Dun Scaith and wondered if they just removed Void Ark from the alliance raid roulette because I think I've gotten it once in the last 365 days. It's definitely unbalanced and I doubt it's the natural state of things.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

But we are not talking about ppl that want to farm christal tower.

We are talking about ppl that want to do the Roulette for the bonus.

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The Odds of you getting the latest raid in roulette are higher in the early morning hours when more people are just directly queuing for them since at any given time theres ALOT more lower leveled players than max level players towards the end of an expansion the odds increase dramatically that you will get the older raids more often than the newer raids during Daytime and Peak Hours.

Even if nobody was "cheating" the ilevel, the roulette would still skew towards the lower-level raids simply because a larger percentage of the people in the queue are eligible to run them.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

No, i understand the problem.
People would queue for a specific raid because you don't need to use the alliance roulette to get the crystal tower; so if something like this was put into place to stop them from getting the tower through the roulette, they would use other ways to queue specifically for it and would (again) avoid the raids that the OP wants to force them to do for his sake.

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Yeah, you are still missing the problem.

You only get the BONUS experience or tomestones if you use alliance roulette. If a max level character uses the alliance roulette there is a chance they could get put into ANY raid in the game (that they've unlocked). However, by unequipping pieces of their level 70 gear (or leveling gear if they're queuing for exp) BEFORE THEY QUEUE they can lower their current ilvl so that they don't meet the ilvl requirements for HW and SB alliance raids (they usually drop below World of Darkness min ilvl as well). THEN when they queue for the roulette, the game checks their current ilvl, sees they don't meet the requirements for HW and SB alliance raids (and WoD), and only attempts to put them in select ARR raids (since many feel that LotA and ST are the fastest and most braindead) to get their BONUS experience or tomestones super easy.


Yes, RIGHT NOW ppl are direct queuing for LotA and ST because of the Moogle Event, but Alliance Raid Roulette predominantly gave these two raids BEFORE the event as well because of this practice. It doesn't take many ppl doing this throughout the day to force MOST alliance roulette queues into LotA or ST.

What's the issue? I do it all the time to stay in LotA, ST or WoD.

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Originally Posted by Xuled

What's the issue? I do it all the time to stay in LotA, ST or WoD.

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I think OP (and to a degree some others) want variety with the Roulette as opposed to mostly getting the same duties because one or several players have adjusted their gear to influence what instance is given to the party. Granted it's not really doing anything wrong per say as the system allows it to work, but you could imagine some players getting frustrated that a Roulette with 9 duties is mostly pulling just 3 of them.

Although as others have stated, more players have access to the Crystal Tower raids than all the others so already the chance of getting them is somewhat high to begin with. Plus we have the current Mogstones event on which is influencing certain duties to appear, so there you go.

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Originally Posted by Xuled

What's the issue? I do it all the time to stay in LotA, ST or WoD.

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Best I can tell is that they're salty about how long it takes to farm the lvl 60 Alliance raid glamours.

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Originally Posted by Xuled

What's the issue? I do it all the time to stay in LotA, ST or WoD.

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The idea behind the roulette is to help others to do certain alliance raids. By lowering your real ILvL, in a way, you are preventing the system to work as intended. I won't be surprised if at some point SE will enforce a minimum ILvL based on your level.

Question: I've seen someone do this just now after arriving in Syrcus Tower (I saw someone in what looked like level 1 glamour items but after loading into the next area they were kitted out in full armour), so I have to ask: Is this a reportable action?

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Originally Posted by Driavna

The idea behind the roulette is to help others to do certain alliance raids. By lowering your real ILvL, in a way, you are preventing the system to work as intended. I won't be surprised if at some point SE will enforce a minimum ILvL based on your level.

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I'd honestly welcome an enforced item level based on your level. It was a nightmare trying to get my alt through the Mhach raids when she reached that point. I spent roughly 40 minutes in queue for each during peak hours (and this was before the Moogle Tomestone event). Same for my friend when he did them on his alt. It was incredibly boring just having to wait around.

I did this for one reason only - to farm light. I'm picking my way through the old relics and the anima weapons, as sort of a between patch project. If I want to farm light, farm poetics, and also farm the current tome set at the same time, dropping my iLvl to just below the 70 raids was the most effective way of doing all three at once. (There are more effective ways of farming light. There are more effective ways of farming poetics. There are certainly more effective ways of farming Genesis. But there isn't really any other method that farms all three quite so effectively at the same time.)

I don't care which of the three 50s or 60s that I get into, but until they add light farming for the anima and relics to ALL duty roulettes, regardless of what level the duty itself is, this is the reason some folks are going to do it.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Question: I've seen someone do this just now after arriving in Syrcus Tower (I saw someone in what looked like level 1 glamour items but after loading into the next area they were kitted out in full armour), so I have to ask: Is this a reportable action?

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Why would it be? So long as they met the ilvl requirement to get in, they're fine. It's annoying for people who want to farm out of progression raids for gear but not reportable, especially since you can equip normal gear inside the instance now.

That said I'm 100% on board with forcing people into whatever raid they get at this point so long as it's been unlocked and you're at the appropriate level. With the only exception being the current raid tier of whatever expansion is going on, as I can see people low ilvling the content just to troll. Trying to get through some of these on an alt is a nightmare due to the wait times.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Why would it be? So long as they met the ilvl requirement to get in, they're fine. It's annoying for people who want to farm out of progression raids for gear but not reportable, especially since you can equip normal gear inside the instance now.

That said I'm 100% on board with forcing people into whatever raid they get at this point so long as it's been unlocked and you're at the appropriate level. With the only exception being the current raid tier of whatever expansion is going on, as I can see people low ilvling the content just to troll. Trying to get through some of these on an alt is a nightmare due to the wait times.

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I heard that things like disconnecting to skip cutscenes in MSQ dungeons fall under "Misuse of flaws", which is:

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"Misuse of flaws" refers to the deliberate exploitation of a fault in Final Fantasy XIV, or manipulating a feature of Final Fantasy XIV so that it does not function as intended, in order to obtain personal gain or cause disadvantage to someone else.

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And after hearing that, deliberately lowering your ilevel in order to get into certain content (manipulating a feature of Final Fantasy XIV) that's generally considered easier and quicker when queuing up for a roulette (in order to obtain personal gain) seems along those lines.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

I did this for one reason only - to farm light. I'm picking my way through the old relics and the anima weapons, as sort of a between patch project. If I want to farm light, farm poetics, and also farm the current tome set at the same time, dropping my iLvl to just below the 70 raids was the most effective way of doing all three at once. (There are more effective ways of farming light. There are more effective ways of farming poetics. There are certainly more effective ways of farming Genesis. But there isn't really any other method that farms all three quite so effectively at the same time.)

I don't care which of the three 50s or 60s that I get into, but until they add light farming for the anima and relics to ALL duty roulettes, regardless of what level the duty itself is, this is the reason some folks are going to do it.

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Unrelated, but if you want Light for Anima relics, you can unsync Brayflox HM for it. Quick and easy Light that doesn’t rely on getting parties together for things like A1S or A9S.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I heard that things like disconnecting to skip cutscenes in MSQ dungeons fall under "Misuse of flaws", which is:



And after hearing that, deliberately lowering your ilevel in order to get into certain content (manipulating a feature of Final Fantasy XIV) that's generally considered easier and quicker when queuing up for a roulette (in order to obtain personal gain) seems along those lines.

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The reason that's reportable is because you're hurting the immersion of new players and bypassing their cutscenes via an exploit. SE prides itself on trying to allow people to enjoy the MSQ dungeons on their first run without being harried forward by impatient veterans, which is why the disconnect to skip is so frowned upon by them. While everyone else is watching the cutscenes you're off killing the boss. Worse still if they didn't have a rule in place to make it reportable the person who disconnected could easily harass other players into joining in on their shenanigans and kick anyone who doesn't follow suit. It's a WHOLE 'nother kettle of fish with far different issues at play.

Alliance Roulette on the other hand doesn't require work-around exploits to toy with, nor has SE come out and condemned it either. The coding has it so that so long as you meet the ilvl requirements for one, that'll be the one you get sent to. Now if SE did make the proposed changes people are asking for in this thread and put specific lines of code to stop people from manipulating the instance selection process and people still found a way to get around the matter then it would be reportable.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Question: I've seen someone do this just now after arriving in Syrcus Tower (I saw someone in what looked like level 1 glamour items but after loading into the next area they were kitted out in full armour), so I have to ask: Is this a reportable action?

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I guess so. You'd probably have to ask yourself if it's worth bringing misery to another player by risking them getting banned, though. It could be an innocent mistake on their part. I accidentally queued for a roulette once after messing around with glamour and forgot to reequip everything.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Question: I've seen someone do this just now after arriving in Syrcus Tower (I saw someone in what looked like level 1 glamour items but after loading into the next area they were kitted out in full armour), so I have to ask: Is this a reportable action?

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You can't assume that person is the reason you got the low-level raid, because it relies on what they were wearing when they joined the queue, rather than what they were wearing when the duty window popped up.

They could have queued in full gear, then tried on some glamour outfits while they were waiting, and then couldn't switch back their equipment until they're in the raid.

Meanwhile the person who did deliberately strip off to cheat the queue is already back in full armour, and you'd never know it happened.

I agree it being a problem that people abuse the system to get the 3 easier/quicker alliance raids. If one of the 24 people does this, all other 23 people queuing with that person also get that raid.
That's why get the same three arr raids 99% of the time. I like your idea. First I thought about them adjusting the rewards depending on the average finishing time of the raids but some people will still abuse the system to get the most braindead raid and I will have to do these raid with them. I'm honestly tired of always having to do the same three raids and I can't imagine the developer is happy with that.

Just saying whats preventing anyone from queuing up directly for the raid they want and doing something else with the music playing when the windows different so they can hear thier queue chime?

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

Just saying whats preventing anyone from queuing up directly for the raid they want and doing something else with the music playing when the windows different so they can hear thier queue chime?

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Not everyone has hours to sit there and wait. You can't even participate in certain Gold Saucer events so you are totally stuck, and again, the idea of that roulette was to help people directly queuing for that stuff.

The proposed fix won't actually fix the issue. There's a multitude of players who have yet to unlock the HW Alliance Raids. Whenever I run them and don't feel like doing HW, I just group with a friend of mine who hasn't. It will never pop since he's never done the quest.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

The proposed fix won't actually fix the issue. There's a multitude of players who have yet to unlock the HW Alliance Raids. Whenever I run them and don't feel like doing HW, I just group with a friend of mine who hasn't. It will never pop since he's never done the quest.

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Another quick fix then: once you hit 60 the Alliance roulette is blocked till you unlock all wings of HW raid. Same goes for level 70 after ShB hits.

Note: Do the same with normal raids.

Unless they drastically increase the rewards for dun scaith or above raids there is no way I m running those. The only reason I queue in alliance raid roulette is because L50 raids can be forced, which despite being boring, have a low probability of wipe (WoD aside). I don't know, they could just either normalize the raids difficulty (because there is a gap between older raids than the wiping city of mach and the newer ones) or just make 2 alliance raid roulettes (one easy and one harder).

Its a roulet, ppl want roulets but many - like me - are sick of the lv 50 ones over and over and over again. I was dun scaith like 2x max and i leveled ALL jobs from lv60+ when we got that roulet.

They need to enforce it, for lv 61+ you gotta have Void ark and Mhach at least unlocked and min ilvl and for 71+ Rabanastre + Ridorana and min ilvl. Same for the Lv 50/60 and soon most likely 70 roulet. Either enforce max needed ilvl (and no the old 120/260/390 is easy enough to get) or split those roulets again.... Idm doing lv 50 stuff but lets be real, 9/10 its lv 50 stuff... and thats boring when being 64/70+...

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

Just saying whats preventing anyone from queuing up directly for the raid they want and doing something else with the music playing when the windows different so they can hear thier queue chime?

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Because the queue they want isn't the specific raid, it's the roulette and its associated daily bonuses.

BUT the roulette queue looks at your ilevel when you sign up, and won't put you into a raid with a higher minimum that you are equipped for.

So instead of letting the roulette put them into any duty they could normally be eligible for, they deliberately alter their current gear so they'll get the easiest raid possible. Effectively reducing the roulette from "could be good, could be bad" to only giving them the things they wanted, while still earning the roulette bonus. Which defeats the entire purpose of the roulette.

I mean, it could work - though more likely people will just disconnect and hope to be booted so they can try again without eating a penalty.

Yeah thats another thing they have to look into... i had much more such "random" players DC lately...

Anyway, I don't think this is possible? They can't lock people out of their inventories/armouries as there are genuine people out there who find a new piece of armour that is better than what they have on and they equip it right there and then.

Sometimes I queue while wearing a glamour gearset and forget ilevel influences what pops.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Anyway, I don't think this is possible? They can't lock people out of their inventories/armouries as there are genuine people out there who find a new piece of armour that is better than what they have on and they equip it right there and then.

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I don't understand this. I mean, is simple: once you hit LvL 60 the alliance roulette request ILvL 255 and having all the appropriate raids unlocked. Expert already does this so the technology is there.

I don't see a problem at all in gearing for a lower ilevel to get the 50 level raids as opposed to the 60's. Seriously stop trying to control how people queue.

Relative to the moogle tokens perhaps if SE included the 60 level raids as well people wouldn't bother to try and manipulate which duties they get.

I think the only way to do this would be to remove the ilvl requirements for the raids which would cause lots of issues

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I don't see a problem at all in gearing for a lower ilevel to get the 50 level raids as opposed to the 60's. Seriously stop trying to control how people queue.

Relative to the moogle tokens perhaps if SE included the 60 level raids as well people wouldn't bother to try and manipulate which duties they get.

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Is not controlling how people queue, if anyone wants to only do those 3 raids so badly they can directly queue for it. The idea behind the roulette always was to help people that actually wanted to do a certain one and get rewarded for doing it.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Is not controlling how people queue, if anyone wants to only do those 3 raids so badly they can queue for it. The idea behind the roulette always was to help people that actually wanted to do a certain one and get rewarded for doing it.

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I can queue at whatever ilevel I prefer to. I don't see it as an issue in the least. The idea of trying to control what and how people queue shouldn't be up to those who prefer to run the 60 level raids. People run the Alliance Raid primarily for the experience awarded as a result of the bonus daily. This is only an issue at the moment because of the event and I totally understand why people who are leveling characters would prefer those lower level raids. Blame SE for not including those into the rewards for the event.

I'm not leveling any characters at the moment so I've been spamming ST but you can believe if I was I'd be using my ilevel to insure I DON'T get the 60's.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

I don't understand this. I mean, is as simple once you hit LvL 60 the alliance roulette request ILvL 255 and having all the appropriate raids unlocked. Expert already does this, so the technology is there.

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You'd be surprised how many new level 60s do not have ILvL 255, why punish them, when the game honestly pushes for it with how easy it is to level - especially with PotD and pot jumps. I've also reached level 60 and above while in ARR - I'd be thoroughly peeved if I was forced into a level 60 alliance raid that doesn't even coincide with the plot at the moment. Finally, someone who's level 60+ and in ARR doesn't have access to ILvL 255 without purchasing it off the market board. You can't access shire gear until near the end of the HW and sky pirate is a bit expensive. Anyway, it's costly.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Is not controlling how people queue, if anyone wants to only do those 3 raids so badly they can directly queue for it. The idea behind the roulette always was to help people that actually wanted to do a certain one and get rewarded for doing it.

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Issue is, the reward vs investment ratio really isn't the same for the first raids, compared to the later ones.