Scholar 5.0 Discussion

As main sch since the job has been available.....if everything you have said here is true.....well i think i'm done as healer.

I will test it but woow.....why SE want to simplify everything like this....

I don't think anyone on the development team actually plays scholar. If they did they would realize that removing energy drain is effectively crippling us.

I'm happy with what I see. ED kinda hurts to see but with QA removed and Sacred Soil being buffed it doesn't feel as doom and gloom. The gameplay flow of juggling your fairy and ogcd skills with preemptive shielding and high dps uptime still exists. It's just been streamlined to make it accessible to newer players.

Also Broil III and Biolysis are visually stunning so I have no qualms spamming them. Anything involving magical glyphs and circles are my jam.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Oddly the tooltip on Sacred Soil says, "cannot be used with any other area-creating actions" when they removed the only other area creating action (ShadowFlare).

A 10 potency gain on Bio II > Biolysis. 10 dang potency increase. . .

Stuff like that shows me whoever is designing the healer jobs is incompetent or just really really doesn't know what they're doing.

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10×10 ticks at 3 seconds= 100 potency.

I quite miss the time when I was positively excited for new healer skills, without that feeling of dread - "How are they gonna screw it up this time?". Even back in HW when Dissipation got added, your new shiny 60 skill gives yourself a crutch. Now, 4 years later, they turned it into what it should have been from the start, auto summon faerie back and or quick faerie summon in general.

Skip forward to SB we got actual new interesting skills that again needed various tweaks before they became good/useable - your new shiny 70 skill aetherpact with its incredibly short range, continuous drain of faerie gauge even when the target is out of range, long wind up time, couldn't be interrupted by other skills - effectively locking you in. And of course they completely gutted aoe dps abilities, because they adjusted SMN and forgot about that other job which evolves from ACN. Then fixed it by bringing Miasma II back but also buffed healing potencies for some reason, was anyone even asking for that?

Fast forward to ShB and we are back with new abilities which are nice, though they increase healing once again to make everyone a different flavour of WHM; removal of even more dps aoe skills, again, and single target abilities too, etc. What SE seems to not understand is that a pet job kind of needs more emphasis on dots because you have a pet to manage.

If nothing else I'm hoping all this backlash /at least/ gets us Energy Drain back. The push back on 4.0 SCH saw use being given Miasma 2 and other quality of life changes, and while I don't expect to get our full suite of dots back, it'd be nice to at least get our aetherflow stack dump ability back.

If I get energy drain back I'll stop complaining completely.

Look on the bright side! With all this ogcd downtime we now have, we might be able to squeeze in book autoattacks into our "rotation"! That's exciting!

Seriously tho. What in the world gave SE the idea that the people who specifically played Scholar and NOT White Mage wanted Scholar to become a 1:1 copy of White Mage? Did someone mix up the design documents? Did a coder accidentally ctrl+A+overwrite and save? What happened?

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

Look on the bright side! With all this ogcd downtime we now have, we might be able to squeeze in book autoattacks into our "rotation"! That's exciting!

Seriously tho. What in the world gave SE the idea that the people who specifically played Scholar and NOT White Mage wanted Scholar to become a 1:1 copy of White Mage? Did someone mix up the design documents? Did a coder accidentally ctrl+A+overwrite and save? What happened?

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Yes, because we're a regen healer that does nothing except big burst heals...your statement was ridiculous. We are not like WHM, not in healing. Please stop posting hysterical nonsense just because we lost our DPS moves...our children, Miasma, Energy Drain, and Shadowflare. T_T

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Yes, because we're a regen healer that does nothing except big burst heals...your statement was ridiculous. We are not like WHM, not in healing. Please stop posting hysterical nonsense just because we lost our DPS moves...our children, Miasma, Energy Drain, and Shadowflare. T_T

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I probably should have clarified, I meant that in terms of the DPS rotation. I have no complaints about healing, that's always been fit for purpose in all types of content and nothing seems to have changed in that department. We still have more healing tools than necessary. But healing is not what a healer does most of the time. The majority of our activity is DPS, and with only 1 button to press every 29 seconds and only 1 button to spam in the meantime (Broil/Ruin depending on how much movement is needed) ShB SCH has become SB WHM. In fact... even worse than that. SB WHM at least has 2 buttons to reapply its dots and has to do that more often. Oh, and Assize! That's an ogcd offensive ability. Why don't we have one and they get to keep theirs?

Bottom line, SCH in ShB is set to lose most of what distinguished it from WHM during the lengthy periods of healing downtime that FF14 combat is designed around.

Either Bane, or Miasma II needs to come back because we have to have something other than Art of War spam for AoE. I'd say Miasma II because otherwise it's Biolysis > Bane > AoW for 30 seconds which isn't much more than we'll do otherwise. I'd Recommend Miasma II. Hit that, then AoW for 12s, miasma 2 again.

It's pretty essential we get Energy Drain back as well. We have to have some sort of dump for Aether stacks and Lustrate/Excog/Indom ain't it.

While I sympathize with players loosing SOO much of their class, its still kinda telling that scholars can loose all this and STILL be better than whm lol.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

While I sympathize with players loosing SOO much of their class, its still kinda telling that scholars can loose all this and STILL be better than whm lol.

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WHM is going to be hands down the best dungeon healer just by Holy alone. Doesn't matter in end game but they are better in that capacity.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

WHM is going to be hands down the best dungeon healer just by Holy alone. Doesn't matter in end game but they are better in that capacity.

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Dungeons don't really matter, though...

Keeping it just about SCH:
by that standard (that nothing really matters until end-game raid content), it doesn't matter that SCH will need to spend 1-3 minutes pressing 1 or 2 buttons to defeat a single overworld monster, and will, thus, be co-dependent upon the DPS and tanks in order to proceed with any kind of battle content in the event that they want to avoid having to spend a significant amount of time on it.
Even if it's supposed to be solo content.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Dungeons don't really matter, though...

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It's like I addressed that if you had actually read what I typed.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

WHM is going to be hands down the best dungeon healer just by Holy alone.

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https://i.imgur.com/e3Un1Nx.gif

art of war is is very disappointing skill with lame-ass animation. copied from pvp skill
biolysis doesn't even look like poison.
broil 3 is meh, i prefer broil.
fey blessing is a potency joke
embrace nerf is something acceptable but why pet potency scale still so confusing 150 basically is just above 100? what are you scared of square just be honest we all know you hate fairy.
why not upgrade ruin2 to ruin 4 so we have some cool shit to spam in dungeon

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

It's like I addressed that if you had actually read what I typed.

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Doesn't change that 'best dungeon healer' is a pretty crappy place to be in if you got nothing else going for you...

Seriously in term of reactivity and fun SCH will sux now.

In certain situations we have to react fast and apply some shields fast like we can do right now. In 5.0 our aoe shield will be nerf and Seraph can add some better shields but it will depend about a 2min recast...So we will have to think "omg we need shields" then summon Seraph, then ask her to do the action, and she will do it...aww but too late our co healer AST has applied his shields first looong time ago XD

God it will be so borring now to play sch i cant believe it.

Pruned on our dps from HW into SB, now again from SB into ShB. I already left the job to become dps in 4.0, but seeing them further heal bloat what was an already complete job even further and further simplify the dps side makes the dormant SCH in me roll in its grave lol.

SCH has in past been known for its strongest DoT's in the game, and it's ability to dabble in black and white magicks equally in various games in the series. I feel it's lost its identity that was well established in the series due to the butchering of traditional SCH and SMN when 2.X came out with ACN. This is the issue for me, I don't care if SCH's damage is not the best, nor its healing, I just would like the job which felt sort of like an adequate mage in both damage and healing. I miss weaving my DoT's in spreading them, placing down a shadowflare and using Blizz 2 as filler in ARR.

It would just be nice if it even stayed true to the versions of the Job before this one even if by a little.

I would really love a spammable ranged AOE OGCD to weave with art of war, but it might just be easier to reintroduce cleric stance as a mode where most heals become attacks.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

I would really love a spammable ranged AOE OGCD to weave with art of war, but it might just be easier to reintroduce cleric stance as a mode where most heals become attacks.

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I'd do anything for the old playstyle of cleric stance to come back, the skill ceiling was high and it felt very rewarding to learn a fight and know when to lock yourself out of healing when the party was fine, honestly ARR and HW's vision of healers was so much fun :)

They may have not liked this for the more casual players, but the solution is simple I guess, give it to a healer which suits such a playstyle like Scholar where the pet helps add for leniency for such stance dancing akin to a modernised version of black and white grimoire from XI perhaps. Then WHM could be for healers who wish for a simpler DPS/Heal experience (with some actual raid utility pleasde like brave/faith :) ) and AST could be the buffer.

If only... hehe

So something dawned on me. How is the fairy gauge gonna work now since we no longer have an Aetherflow sink. The whole reason it "works" is because of both the trait and the stack dumps. With no quickening trait or stack dump its gonna built rather slowly. 30 points a minute, and that's if we just burn the stacks to build the gauge. Not sure how that compares to the new WHM lilies. But, their entire kit isn't as involved with the lilies, as SCHs is with Aetherflow and the fairy.

It's starting to make sense why we didn't get a 4th healer. They were too busy murdering the other 3.

Played this class since the 1st week of 2.0, but I'm not going to main a job whose whole DPS rotation I can bind to the mouse wheel. I'd have to ask people to stand in the orange circles in raids just so i don't die of boredom.

Really disappointed, SE. This expansion is looking more and more like Cataclysm each time new information is released. Some kind of 3rd MMO Expansion curse I guess.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

So something dawned on me. How is the fairy gauge gonna work now since we no longer have an Aetherflow sink. The whole reason it "works" is because of both the trait and the stack dumps. With no quickening trait or stack dump its gonna built rather slowly. 30 points a minute, and that's if we just burn the stacks to build the gauge. Not sure how that compares to the new WHM lilies. But, their entire kit isn't as involved with the lilies, as SCHs is with Aetherflow and the fairy.

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Apparently we gain 30 or 50 fairy gauge by summoning Seraph. And one of the worst things to me is that Aetherflow can be used only during fight....

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Originally Posted by Loki

Apparently we gain 30 or 50 fairy gauge by summoning Seraph. And one of the worst things to me is that Aetherflow can be used only during fight....

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That is the only use I see for Dissipation. Summon the fairy, eat her and get 3 Aetherflow before battle. But I guess it doesn't really matter, since we can't DPS with them as an opener anymore. Gotta heal the second the boss is pulled.

I was so happy to get shadowbringers, but since we have all those details i'm just jaded i really hope they won't let things like that.

I've never posted on the forums before until these SCH changes, and I am posting now after playing for two years because these changes are horrible. I've wracked by brain on why these changes were implemented, to no avail.

You are not making the class more approachable. Imagine being a newer player coming in at level 1 to play for the first time because you want to be a scholar. Imagine realizing after a short while that from lv30 to level 80, all of post-50 ARR content, all of HW content, all of stormblood content, you are going to be doing nothing but broil, bio, and occasionally chain strat. That's completely unacceptable, and would make people quit the game if they think that's how the other classes work. At least SCH can swap to SMN, but it doesn't bode well for what you've done to the other healers.

You are not streamlining for further expansion. Yes, shadowflare is frustrating to cast in the span of a weave, and yes, you have to wait about half a GCD to use bane after your second dot, but there is no reason to remove basic skills like Energy Drain, Miasma II, or miasma.

You are not making the class more fun by making it more heal-oriented. Homogenizing raid culture to the modern WoW standard is an awful idea. In a heal-oriented rotation, where you're focused on blowing as much hp/s into your team as possible, optimization is suffering. The tighter your group plays, the less heals you need to put out, the more you need to damage, and for SCH this means explicitly pressing Broil III more, which is not rewarding.

I now regret all the time and effort I put into my SCH relic weapon. I'll be moving to BRD, PLD, or GNB unless there are some big changes. Hopefully I can find a class that actually gained something with this expansion.

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Originally Posted by Loki

Apparently we gain 30 or 50 fairy gauge by summoning Seraph. And one of the worst things to me is that Aetherflow can be used only during fight....

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You mean we used Aetherflow outside of a fight?

For hunting for exemple, or at the beginning of a raid, a dungeon...? No?

8'D imagine a kinda event like moogle tomestone with 5.0 SCH as designed today. Can't stop laughing about how boring this would be!
That's describing another side of the issue. They WANT us to do older content. Roulettes are pretty much a solution they've found for it. Now for people saying wait to try the launch of 5.0 before complaining...We don't have to wait to understand how boring the previous ones will become.
As much as they can try to make ShB contents more demanding for heals, they're not going to fix this for previous ones they're pushing us to do.

Might help to wait till we see how content is tuned in ShB before claiming we'll just be standing around twiddling our thumbs, imo I highly doubt dev team intentionally changed healers across the board to just be standing there waiting for next person to be healed.

Also, it does look like ShB will up the damage taken by parties both from info in live letter which indicated healers will require more player skill now to play optimally and from mr. happy's interview where Yoshi states that content in ShB will require more healing.

https://youtu.be/8uFvDXs-rLk?t=186

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Originally Posted by Gralna

Might help to wait till we see how content is tuned in ShB before claiming we'll just be standing around twiddling our thumbs, imo I highly doubt dev team intentionally changed healers across the board to just be standing there waiting for next person to be healed.

Also, it does look like ShB will up the damage taken by parties both from info in live letter which indicated healers will require more player skill now to play optimally and from mr. happy's interview where Yoshi states that content in ShB will require more healing.

https://youtu.be/8uFvDXs-rLk?t=186

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Odds are they changed healers to make their role easier for the stupid trust system's AI to function. The changes basically made cosmetics the defining difference between the three healing jobs; there's little to celebrate about these water-downed, boring redesigns. I won't be playing the SCH anymore, but that's me. To each their own.

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Originally Posted by Truen

Odds are they changed healers to make their role easier for the stupid trust system's AI to function. The changes basically made cosmetics the defining difference between the three healing jobs; there's little to celebrate about these water-downed, boring redesigns. I won't be playing the SCH anymore, but that's me. To each their own.

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Except that multiple interviews from media tour have stated that healing trusts is easier than healing an actual party due to them having a passive dmg mitigation similar to squadrons, while even at lvl 74 in a duty with all players, there was a noticable increase in outgoing damage to entire party throughout the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Gralna

Might help to wait till we see how content is tuned in ShB before claiming we'll just be standing around twiddling our thumbs, imo I highly doubt dev team intentionally changed healers across the board to just be standing there waiting for next person to be healed.

Also, it does look like ShB will up the damage taken by parties both from info in live letter which indicated healers will require more player skill now to play optimally and from mr. happy's interview where Yoshi states that content in ShB will require more healing.

https://youtu.be/8uFvDXs-rLk?t=186

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Utterly irrelevant. Even if our dps uptime was reduced from the current 70-80% down to like 30-20%, it doesn't change the fact that having a complex rotation that included 3 oGCDs (Bane, Energy Drain, Shadowflare) was the distinguishing feature of Scholar. Delivering damage in a different way from both of the other healers lay at the core of our identity, it defined over half of our gameplay. Now, all healers will play the same during their dps windows and while running old (1-70, which I'd like to remind everyone constitutes the majority of content in the game and most likely will not be retroactively changed to account for the new implementation of healer dps) and solo content, Scholars will be bored to tears.

So yes, no matter how they design 71-80 fights, throughout most of the game's existing content, we will be standing around twiddling our thumbs. Have fun getting something like Ghimlyt Dark in your roulette and having one spell to spam for minutes at a time before someone's health bar drops low enough to warrant a Lustrate.

I don’t get why everyone is saying they are upset to see bane and the like go. I would have preferred we keep energy drain yes, but I never used bane because it would waste an aetherflow charge. And Shadow Flare was only good for very large groups. We are healers. I don’t want to stand around all day waiting for a tank to get below 70% health either. So I spam broil on my downtime. All the classes have one spell we spam. That’s how mages normally are. We have CD moves we use, then we go back to spamming our main attack. Not much is changing. I like that we are all becoming pure healers. I do hate that we are losing energy drain, and the ability to tell our fairy who to heal, but we aren’t losing anything crucial to our kit. Except energy drain..... which I really hope we get back lol

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Originally Posted by LeonTrifang

I don’t get why everyone is saying they are upset to see bane and the like go. I would have preferred we keep energy drain yes, but I never used bane because it would waste an aetherflow charge.

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Waste...An Aetherflow charge? How is Bane a waste?

Also, glancing at the posted Letter now that it is up, I do wonder if SE had any idea how SCH played.

Scholar
Most of scholar's capabilities weren't significantly changed. However, its shield-based playstyle has been shifted to include more direct healing, and makes it easier for scholar to focus more on a heal-oriented playstyle. Instead of focusing on dealing damage while relying on the other healer to provide healing, both healers will be able support each other in the healing role. Additionally, Embrace can no longer be used repetitively, as we’d like to move away from using macros to repeatedly cast Embrace.

It's like they forgot how many OCDs SCH had to heal with or something...

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Originally Posted by Riblet

It's starting to make sense why we didn't get a 4th healer. They were too busy murdering the other 3.

Played this class since the 1st week of 2.0, but I'm not going to main a job whose whole DPS rotation I can bind to the mouse wheel. I'd have to ask people to stand in the orange circles in raids just so i don't die of boredom.

Really disappointed, SE. This expansion is looking more and more like Cataclysm each time new information is released. Some kind of 3rd MMO Expansion curse I guess.

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I'm so putting this in my sig.

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Originally Posted by Gralna

Might help to wait till we see how content is tuned in ShB before claiming we'll just be standing around twiddling our thumbs, imo I highly doubt dev team intentionally changed healers across the board to just be standing there waiting for next person to be healed.

Also, it does look like ShB will up the damage taken by parties both from info in live letter which indicated healers will require more player skill now to play optimally and from mr. happy's interview where Yoshi states that content in ShB will require more healing.

https://youtu.be/8uFvDXs-rLk?t=186

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As stated by Happy, it might happen later but in his video healers are casting their dps a lot in those dungeons.