Housing Transfers Should Be On Timers

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I would /love/ a personal zone and I think once people tried a Wildstar like system many would like it more too (where you can customize more than you can with our current system, and there are less limitations because you don't share visual space) but..... there are people who would NOT like losing their neighborhood. I think therefore it would be important to keep the wards, but allow people to transfer their house into the instanced zone if they wish (relinquishing their lot in the ward). If enough people transfer over to collapse down the system into fewer wards then that can be done, but I'd like to see the housing system leave the salt era not trade types of salt XD.

Unless by end you mean end adding wards or at least take a break from that and add/expand another system (add airships, personal zone, greatly expanded apartment system, something), in which case full agree with every ounce of desire I can muster. I am not impressed with the ward system, am impressed with the decoration items though (which is why I want to see a system that has more power to the player).

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I'm not asking to end the wards, just make them ONLY available to FCs; which would solve a number of issues in the game. It won't solve all, and players will find a work around, but it would solve a few of the demand issues.

On Excalibur the past day or so there have been quite a few times where it seems like someone got a plot in say-goblet for example, and relocated to shiro right away. the length of time for the timer, the randomness of it, all just breeds frustration and discontent.

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Originally Posted by Rangar

I'm not asking to end the wards, just make them ONLY available to FCs; which would solve a number of issues in the game. It won't solve all, and players will find a work around, but it would solve a few of the demand issues.

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I think that would be a dangerous path, unless you meant something else :). Like I said I sincerely believe majority people would be impressed if SE was able to make something like Wild Star (every player can have an instanced house + zone for personal use but can share and visit other people just like people do now), but... some people will certainly not be impressed being kicked off a system.

I think you might be able to suggest that only FC can buy ward housing at the introduction of the instanced system (so people who have a house previously can maintain it if they so wish). Still.. I believe it would be better to just leave it as is (wards) and let players choose to migrate to an instanced area on their on volition, even allow FC to have their own zone. If the wards get smaller as I assume they will they can choose to do something with them as they get smaller, like collapsing them down or if truly abandoned then creating a Dark Cloud / WoW garrison system for NPC that a player or FC set up (could be cool if FC own an entire "instanced" ward, with the main area being customize-able guild hall and the rest being a sort of Dark Cloud / WoW garrison).

Is that what you meant, like future forward they're only for FC (but current owners will be grandfathered)? I think that would lessen the salt but generally I still think the instanced system should be offered as an alternative for player and FC and the wards continue as they are (at least until the wards become unused, if that ever happens). The FC instance can be different than the player one, like I think a FC being able to purchase a ward (instanced for themselves) could lead to a lot of growth feeling.

Something definitely needs to be done. At the bare minimum the timers need to be displayed, even if given a vague description such as "Purchasable in ~12 hours". The current system encourages behavior that is physically unhealthy for players and probably the least fun thing you can do in a video game.

Preferably, they need to address the overall problem which is the lack of housing. Housing Wards are typically dead, even on densely populated RP servers such as Balmung and I think it's safe to say that the concept is pretty much a total failure in terms of being a community hub.

We need instanced housing for everyone. You can keep the wards and apartments for those that are interested, but allow everyone else who would be fine with instanced housing to have their bit of fun too. And don't give me that "the servers can't handle it!" nonsense. WoW could support giving everyone a garrison with a much larger sustained population at the time, SWG could manage to fill practically the entire game world with player cities and housing (and that was over 10 years ago!) and Elder Scrolls Online, being a free to play game, manages to give every single player a house with the potential for multiple houses. SE could make it happen if they actually gave a damn.

Housing in this game is ludicrous! People have the gil to buy the housing but the put those stupid timers for people to purchase! There's been people standing at the same spot all day and some last night to get a plot that are still there! Is this healthy for them to do so for a digital house!? SE just implement a blind or silent auction for housing and place the silent auction on a 12 hour timer for others to get a chance to bid!

If anything the timer needs to apply to those relocating too... was in competition with one other guy until a group a 3 showed up and took the plot for their house right away. Its like.. the richer get richer concept. Its virtually impossible for first time buyers to get a plot.

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Originally Posted by Rangar

I'm not asking to end the wards, just make them ONLY available to FCs; which would solve a number of issues in the game.

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And bring new issues, such as encouraging players to have one-man fcs if they want to experience the joy of decorating their own house.

It's not fair to let only fc masters have all the furnishing fun.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

And bring new issues, such as encouraging players to have one-man fcs if they want to experience the joy of decorating their own house.

It's not fair to let only fc masters have all the furnishing fun.

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And you completely missed the caveat of people having access to personal, instanced housing with the limiting of wards to only FCs. But yes, like I said, people will still find a way to exploit the system under these circumstances too.

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Originally Posted by Rangar

And you completely missed the caveat of people having access to personal, instanced housing with the limiting of wards to only FCs. But yes, like I said, people will still find a way to exploit the system under these circumstances too.

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Oh well in that case it's fine. I thought you meant only fc masters get a house, but it's not that. Cool.

And yea sadly people will always find a way to exploit a system. If we had a proper instanced housing system such things wouldn't matter though, given the actions of one person couldn't affect someone else.

Elder Scrolls Online, one of only a few mmos I have played, personally has one of the better housing systems in place and I think it is the best method housing should be. Specific style houses placed all across Eorzea that is instanced and can be purchased by all.

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Elder Scrolls Online, one of only a few mmos I have played, personally has one of the better housing systems in place

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Everquest arguably has better housing systems. Everyone can own 3 houses, use any of the games currencies to pay rent for up to hundreds of years (real time) in advance (basically a day worth of currency pays rent for 6-12 months of 3 houses), have more decorating space than 14 houses,, it lets guilds buy a full ward (with 60? houses for members) and provides two guildhalls, one for free just for having a guild with vendors, buffs and a teleporter, and one that can be upgraded to a CASTLE and fully decorated.

14 housing is a very low bar.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

Everquest arguably has better housing systems. Everyone can own 3 houses, use any of the games currencies tonpaybrent for up to hundreds of years (real time) in advance, have more decorating space than 14 houses,, it lets guilds buy a full ward (with 60? houses for members) and provides two guildhalls, one for free just for having a guild with vendors, buffs and a teleporter, and one that can be upgraded to a CASTLE.

14 housing is a very low bar.

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Difference being that ESO has a closer arcitecture and gameplay that plays much closer to FFXIV then others.

I'm just saying you dont have to try to jump the housing bar 14 sets. If your game has housing, you probably did it.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

I'm just saying you dont have to try to jump the housing bar 14 sets. If your game has housing, you probably did it.

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More like dig up the bar. Damn thing is buried deep.

Honestly we need to bump the amount of wards to 30 for each housing district.

Right now there are 18 wards per housing district with 60 houses per ward.

60 x 18 = 1080 houses per housing district.

There are 4 housing districts so 1080 x 4 = 4320 houses total in the game.

4320 is not enough to support all the players, especially since some people own multiple houses.

Now with 30 wards that brings the total to 60 x 30 = 1800 x 4 = 7200 houses

Still not nearly enough but almost double of what we currently have. And we will be getting ishgard eventually so add another 1800 to that and you have 9000 houses.

It would be so much better than what we have now at least. Its a bandaid for an already terrible system.

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Originally Posted by Wynn_Storm

Honestly we need to bump the amount of wards to 30 for each housing district.

Right now there are 18 wards per housing district with 60 houses per ward.

60 x 18 = 1080 houses per housing district.

There are 4 housing districts so 1080 x 4 = 4320 houses total in the game.

4320 is not enough to support all the players, especially since some people own multiple houses.

Now with 30 wards that brings the total to 60 x 30 = 1800 x 4 = 7200 houses

Still not nearly enough but almost double of what we currently have. And we will be getting ishgard eventually so add another 1800 to that and you have 9000 houses.

It would be so much better than what we have now at least. Its a bandaid for an already terrible system.

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Unless they can create a system where a new ward is created instantly as soon as all lots have filled up, I'd rather not see them to continue to double-down on the system we have. It's extremely limiting as it is, and overall just a hot mess.

Bring on the instanced housing.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Unless they can create a system where a new ward is created instantly as soon as all lots have filled up, I'd rather not see them to continue to double-down on the system we have. It's extremely limiting as it is, and overall just a hot mess.

Bring on the instanced housing.

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That type of system is the same as we have now, the only difference is the ward listing just isn't visible until the previous is occupied. The resources still have to be there ahead of time and the way our housing is, those wards would already have to be up and running as individual zones even if they're not listed. By showing all the wards added at once people at least get a shot at the size/location they may want immediately on the initial rush and the resources that are running still get used. Except maybe most of the goblet. *shakes fist at goblet* Be better Goblet!

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

That type of system is the same as we have now, the only difference is the ward listing just isn't visible until the previous is occupied. The resources still have to be there ahead of time and the way our housing is, those wards would already have to be up and running as individual zones even if they're not listed. By showing all the wards added at once people at least get a shot at the size/location they may want immediately on the initial rush and the resources that are running still get used. Except maybe most of the goblet. *shakes fist at goblet* Be better Goblet!

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We don't have unlimited wards though :X Wards and houses are finite at this point, and many people are missing out on housing.

Although even i wards were infinite, that would probably pose its own set of issues. What happens if the earlier wards start getting vacated? Would the servers have to be condensed at some point? Can't be having actual ghost towns (not that live wards are that different @.@), and then there's the fact this game is run on toasters...which is probably the larger issue at this point D:

So yeah, team instanced-housing over here. ;)

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

We don't have unlimited wards though :X Wards and houses are finite at this point, and many people are missing out on housing.

Although even i wards were infinite, that would probably pose its own set of issues. What happens if the earlier wards start getting vacated? Would the servers have to be condensed at some point? Can't be having actual ghost towns (not that live wards are that different @.@), and then there's the fact this game is run on toasters...which is probably the larger issue at this point D:

So yeah, team instanced-housing over here. ;)

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There's no such thing as infinite hard drives/memory. Any game doing this sort of thing has resources allotted a head of time, but if there was enough of a rush, the limit would be reached.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

There's no such thing as infinite hard drives/memory. Any game doing this sort of thing has resources allotted a head of time, but if there was enough of a rush, the limit would be reached.

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Many games manage to provide housing for every character made, and some with decent housing at that. I'm sure XIV is still suffering 1.0 coding snd other issues, but how many more bandages can they throw on housing at this point?

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Many games manage to provide housing for every character made, and some with decent housing at that. I'm sure XIV is still suffering 1.0 coding snd other issues, but how many more bandages can they throw on housing at this point?

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I completely agree with that, it's just SE puts all the cards on the table so to speak, so we see the full extent of the resources they've put out, vs the competition that masks it by listing a new section when one runs out. If the other games aren't running out though it would seem they've done a better job of predicting usage.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

I completely agree with that, it's just SE puts all the cards on the table so to speak, so we see the full extent of the resources they've put out, vs the competition that masks it by listing a new section when one runs out. If the other games aren't running out though it would seem they've done a better job of predicting usage.

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It's true that in most cases that take their memory management serious that they know of their upper limits (new systems have rather insane limits and can be adapted further) but I'd also suggest that it's not only possible but equally common in serious "+ potential to grow a lot" scenarios that a team knows they could grow substantially and therefore thought to put the ability to add to those limits (even if it requires parallel systems) or general plans on how to adjust their server structure. So even if they reached their limits they can add to them or are plotting if they need future development costs.

Obviously SE didn't do that.. lol.. but I'm just saying even when you have an idea of your limit that doesn't mean you can't build past it (happens all the time). Therefore SE being upfront about their limits isn't really the issue here, it's that they haven't found a way to add more quickly and clearly undershot the demand (even if they had exact house to player count there would be loads of people wishing for a different size, never mind we didn't count FC in that).

I'm sure you know all that but it appears almost like a truism when saying everything has limits (which I'm sure is not what you were going for, and more going for teaching people about programming). I know you mean well, and are correct that all things have space considered (you program out the space you need, you don't give a name tag on a player 100k characters of space because that's silly), but I guess the point is that people mean "grow these boundaries/figure it out" and that people know that this can be done as they've seen systems that have grown much larger over time (literally, and some are just built big from the start) via both gaming examples and not. At least when a system wasn't designed so rigidly without expectation that it demands growth. I don't think people expect SE to make so many houses available that they become the biggest data center in the world.. so when people say infinite they don't mean "infinite data" but such that they can expand their systems as demand needs be.

Like I said I feel it's clear you know this but I guess felt like saying it because what players are asking for is SE to fix/adjust/create another system as this one is inflexible and misses a lot of opportunity/demand. It's true that inside our house is an instance really (so we "already" have instances), but it becomes irrelevant (imo) to the point of what people are clearly (imo) asking for "make more, make one for /every/ player as we've seen in other games, as we've seen in your own game (FFXI)". I guess there is a element of speaking properly about an issue, and perhaps being more clear on instances could help educate everyone on how these things work but at the end of the day if we boil it all into desires.. I think it's irrelevant if SE uses an instance on their housing currently or not because the real demand is "fix it, I don't care how - just fix it" lol. Like when you go to the doctor for surgery you don't need to know how they knew how to do it all, you just want them to do their job lol. Not to take that comparison too far, I think SE does a lot right, so I'm not saying because I think one thing was done with little foresight that SE has failed as a whole- I love the vast majority of the game, even housing decorations / appearance options, housing system however actually gives me negative feelings (like an involuntary frown).

Also I agree Goblet definitely needs a beautification lol. :D

I'm in the give us an instanced house option camp. No one cares if we'll be segmented off from the community, that means next to absolutely nothing. In ms2 (RIP) the houses were instanced but always full of people because you could do some crazy stuff with your instanced house. Jump puzzles, gambling, pvp wars etc. Sense of community is bull when I can just go sit in my ward house and lock my front door and be alone anyway. & guess what? with instanced housing EVERYONE GETS A HOUSE IF THEY WANT ONE. No camping, no waiting.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Also I agree Goblet definitely needs a beautification lol. :D

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It does, its just beautiful in the middle. Should be beautiful all around.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I think that would be a dangerous path, unless you meant something else :). Like I said I sincerely believe majority people would be impressed if SE was able to make something like Wild Star (every player can have an instanced house + zone for personal use but can share and visit other people just like people do now), but... some people will certainly not be impressed being kicked off a system.

I think you might be able to suggest that only FC can buy ward housing at the introduction of the instanced system (so people who have a house previously can maintain it if they so wish). Still.. I believe it would be better to just leave it as is (wards) and let players choose to migrate to an instanced area on their on volition, even allow FC to have their own zone. If the wards get smaller as I assume they will they can choose to do something with them as they get smaller, like collapsing them down or if truly abandoned then creating a Dark Cloud / WoW garrison system for NPC that a player or FC set up (could be cool if FC own an entire "instanced" ward, with the main area being customize-able guild hall and the rest being a sort of Dark Cloud / WoW garrison).

Is that what you meant, like future forward they're only for FC (but current owners will be grandfathered)? I think that would lessen the salt but generally I still think the instanced system should be offered as an alternative for player and FC and the wards continue as they are (at least until the wards become unused, if that ever happens). The FC instance can be different than the player one, like I think a FC being able to purchase a ward (instanced for themselves) could lead to a lot of growth feeling.

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Originally, the housing was FC only.
And expensive, much more than it is now.


The devs went on record saying personal housing was going be cheaper, and a different system than the ward housing... (You know, kinda like how apartments are now)

But, instead of creating a new system, they just let players purchase the fc housing for themselves.


If they had never allowed that, and had actually implemented the apartment system back then, we'd probably be in a better spot.