The moment that made me reconsider FFXIV

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...the_new_event/

And the special event is broken. Really goes to show my point.

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https://media1.tenor.com/images/d0a6...itemid=5750385

and to think i managed to finish that Rising event on all 8 of my characters no problem... just had to wait for someone to say "Hey its up" do a round or 2 and boom done... no all day spawn waiting...

Really? I thought 4.3 was fantastic.

We had a huge boon that was the MSQ leading to (IMO) the best part of the story with Yotsuyu. We had a fantastic dungeon in Swallow's Compass with a really good looking armor set. We had Ridoranda Lighthouse which is a great 24 man (props to Construct alone for making it fantastic).

The Rising for last year I'll admit was much different compared to 2017 but I honestly enjoyed it. 1.0 is such an interesting game to look at from a 2.0+ player perspective and getting a chance to experience the insanity of it all was great. As other people said in this thread if you were upset you waited for hours and hours o end all you needed to do was just wait for someone in a linkshell/novice network to just say it's up. I completed it (in between roulettes) and had no issues at all.

So you wait for someone else to wait to tell the event is up? Why can't the event just be up, like always?

Sure, you can get lucky and just be on at the same time it's up, but what you're saying is you just want someone else to do the waiting for you.

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

So you wait for someone else to wait to tell the event is up? Why can't the event just be up, like always?

Sure, you can get lucky and just be on at the same time it's up, but what you're saying is you just want someone else to do the waiting for you.

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People do the same with Hunts, nms in eureka.

And I never sat around for that event, I just checked for the npc every time I was in uldah, got in a bunch of times. And I work full time, and at the time, worked overtime as well.


Also, the person reporting their hand hurting in eureka has probably never done content continuously in this game before. Most raiders play the same fights for hours a day multiple days during progression.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

People do the same with Hunts, nms in eureka.

And I never sat around for that event, I just checked for the npc every time I was in uldah, got in a bunch of times. And I work full time, and at the time, worked overtime as well.


Also, the person reporting their hand hurting in eureka has probably never done content continuously in this game before. Most raiders play the same fights for hours a day multiple days during progression.

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With that line of thinking that's promoting the attitude to leech off of others, having them do the work for you so you don't have too.

I'm glad you were able to get into the event though in the limited time span, but that didn't need to be the case.

And I'm an ex-raider after raiding in this game for 2 years from ARR to HW, I know all about the long hours to spend, but I we still had a focus on personal health as well. Eureka is about having to put yourself through so much to make a small amount of progress.

It must be great to be so delusional to believe the world revolves around YOU! I hate to break it to you pal. TONS of people enjoyed Eureka AND the grind. If you don't like it don't play it. You made your point. Go away.

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

With that line of thinking that's promoting the attitude to leech off of others, having them do the work for you so you don't have too.

I'm glad you were able to get into the event though in the limited time span, but that didn't need to be the case.

And I'm an ex-raider after raiding in this game for 2 years from ARR to HW, I know all about the long hours to spend, but I we still had a focus on personal health as well. Eureka is about having to put yourself through so much to make a small amount of progress.

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Unfortunately when they made the overworld and overworld type instances non-claimable, it promotes leeching. You either have the ability for a group to claim the enemies, locking others out of the rewards until it respawns and they can try again, or everyone can get credit, and people wait around until others do the work.

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...372368/?page=5

"The sheer number of mobs you have to kill for NM feels absurdly high. My hand literal hurt from spamming the same buttons over and over and over again."


It's so obtuse trying to find threads on a phone but there were a lot of complaints about it on this very forum.

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Again, if you chose to mash buttons for several hours non stop till your hands started hurting then that's on you.

So what's next? you're gonna say you decided not to sleep till Ixion spawns and had to stay awake 72hrs and then blame the content for that?

I guess this is why some need warning messages before they play a game lol.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Again, if you chose to mash buttons for several hours non stop till your hands started hurting then that's on you.

So what's next? you're gonna say you decided not to sleep till Ixion spawns and had to stay awake 72hrs and then blame the content for that?

I guess this is why some need warning messages before they play a game lol.

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Nice strawman. No, because you know why? It's not a time-sensitive event. Ixion will always be apart of the game. It won't suddenly just disappear, so there is no cause for concern. There is no worry about not making it and missing the event. It's not an anniversary event that celebrates 5 years of FFXIV, meant to represent the best of FFXIV and what it offers.

Also, it's still game design that has to be considered. The 2 ways of playing Pagos was FATE train or Mob chain, one's boring with lots of waiting, the other is to try and kill as many mobs as possible. FFXIV combat system is not designed for DPSing as fast as possible on damage sponge mobs.

And before you say, I completely abandoned Eureka, that's not content I support.

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

Nice strawman. No, because you know why? It's not a time-sensitive event. Ixion will always be apart of the game. It won't suddenly just disappear, so there is no cause for concern. There is no worry about not making it and missing the event. It's not an anniversary event that celebrates 5 years of FFXIV, meant to represent the best of FFXIV and what it offers.

Also, it's still game design that has to be considered. The 2 ways of playing Pagos was FATE train or Mob chain, one's boring with lots of waiting, the other is to try and kill as many mobs as possible. FFXIV combat system is not designed for DPSing as fast as possible on damage sponge mobs.

And before you say, I completely abandoned Eureka, that's not content I support.

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I didn't say anything about the anniversary that you somehow decided to stay 16hrs for. But again, that's on you.

As for Pagos, I did a mix of both on release week and so many did and we're just fine. It's not either/or. It's like now we have to have a tutorial included on how to play Eureka lol.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

I didn't say anything about the anniversary that you somehow decided to stay 16hrs for. But again, that's on you.

As for Pagos, I did a mix of both on release week and so many did and we're just fine. It's not either/or. It's like now we have to have a tutorial included on how to play Eureka lol.

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Then what's with the reference to Ixion as a comparison then? You made a comparison example but you don't understand the context.

I didn't say either the 2 were mutually exclusive, but those were literally the 2 ways to grind and level up in Pagos. Only 2. Boring content that's the worst aspects of FFXIV overworld.

The comparison was in regards to the player doing something so extreme, that they caused self injuries to themselves. You don't have to stay awake for Ixion for 72hrs, but suddenly you decided to do that. You don't have to chain mobs for 3hrs in Pagos, but you suddenly decided to do that. Just because one method is boring, doesn't mean you must do the other one till you harm yourself. What happened to common sense these days?

If you make a person feel like they have to do it then they will do it. People like to go for the most efficient methods, and so those must be considered when designing content.

You're almost saying that it's incredibly deterministic, that the person has no control because of extraneous things. It's no justification for the poor content that SE shelves out. If the game requires you to fight a boss for 18 hours to win, would you blame the person or the creator of the boss?

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

If you make a person feel like they have to do it then they will do it. People like to go for the most efficient methods, and so those must be considered when designing content.

You're almost saying that it's incredibly deterministic, that the person has no control because of extraneous things. It's no justification for the poor content that SE shelves out. If the game requires you to fight a boss for 18 hours to win, would you blame the person or the creator of the boss?

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Nope, we're not bots. Are you saying you're going to gather 24hrs non stop because that's the most efficient way to get things done? I finished all 4 zones of Eureka without having to chain like a mad man. Why is my method wrong now?. There's a difference between a content that required you to do a fight for 18hrs like how AV and PW were designed, and a content that you can easily get things done even without playing for 18hrs non stop. So far I have yet to see anything that requires you to grind non stop for hrs in FFXIV

In regards to people hurting their hands, when Pagos first launched SE didn't want people doing the fate train like Anemos so they made NMs give a pittance. Chaining mobs in groups of close levels was the only way to progress. And the experience could be brutal, since the chain would start dropping very quickly. Groups had to continuously pull until the chain reset at 30 for a break. Even as a healer I found these groups very uncomfortable. There was barely a second to think or stretch your fingers.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

In regards to people hurting their hands, when Pagos first launched SE didn't want people doing the fate train like Anemos so they made NMs give a pittance. Chaining mobs in groups of close levels was the only way to progress. And the experience could be brutal, since the chain would start dropping very quickly. Groups had to continuously pull until the chain reset at 30 for a break. Even as a healer I found these groups very uncomfortable. There was barely a second to think or stretch your fingers.

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I think that's just a rumour started by players. From what I can vaguely recall from an interview some months ago, I think it was said that Pagos was in the works before Anemos was released. So they didn't have any feedback or whatever when making the trash that is Pagos.

That's why Pyros and Hydatos are way better.

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

Nice strawman. No, because you know why? It's not a time-sensitive event. Ixion will always be apart of the game. It won't suddenly just disappear, so there is no cause for concern. There is no worry about not making it and missing the event. It's not an anniversary event that celebrates 5 years of FFXIV, meant to represent the best of FFXIV and what it offers.

Also, it's still game design that has to be considered. The 2 ways of playing Pagos was FATE train or Mob chain, one's boring with lots of waiting, the other is to try and kill as many mobs as possible. FFXIV combat system is not designed for DPSing as fast as possible on damage sponge mobs.

And before you say, I completely abandoned Eureka, that's not content I support.

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actually, ffxiv is designed for dpsing mobs as fast as possible, thats literally the point of most of the content. Get to X boss and dps as much as you can. And you dont like fates, or apparently dpsing monsters, thats fine. Others liked eureka, go do something else. Everything in the game is not designed for the same exact people. You like 4 mans and 8 mans? fine go do it, they are still there. Eureka was exploration, knowledge and grind. Its a different type of content than the single path dungeon, which is essentially hall-room fight everything you see.

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Originally Posted by Physic

actually, ffxiv is designed for dpsing mobs as fast as possible, thats literally the point of most of the content. Get to X boss and dps as much as you can. And you dont like fates, or apparently dpsing monsters, thats fine. Others liked eureka, go do something else. Everything in the game is not designed for the same exact people. You like 4 mans and 8 mans? fine go do it, they are still there. Eureka was exploration, knowledge and grind. Its a different type of content than the single path dungeon, which is essentially hall-room fight everything you see.

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I never said I disliked the combat otherwise I wouldn't be playing, and I already said I dropped Eureka so hard I haven't been in there since Pagos was released.

It's the same FATE grind and mob chain we been having always, that's not new, and here is no exploration first time because of how tight the zones are, it's not like RuneScape or hell, FFXI which did exploration far better.

If the content wasn't designed for everyone maybe it shouldn't of been a massive selling point of SB.

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

I never said I disliked the combat otherwise I wouldn't be playing, and I already said I dropped Eureka so hard I haven't been in there since Pagos was released.

It's the same FATE grind and mob chain we been having always, that's not new, and here is no exploration first time because of how tight the zones are, it's not like RuneScape or hell, FFXI which did exploration far better.

If the content wasn't designed for everyone maybe it shouldn't of been a massive selling point of SB.

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it wasnt? it was just one feature among many for the expansion.

for people who like regular ffxiv, they reaease a bunch of new dungeons and raids and new jobs. Eureka is for those looking for a different game mode.

As to you comparing eureka to ffxi or runescape, thats ridiculous, it not going to equal an entire game, its one small game mode, 3-4 maps released over like a year.

compared to a dungeon there is exploration, enemy variety, more bosses (fates) no set paths, situational changes (night enemies, elementals, mutations, adaptations) danger (deleveling) and tactical stealth. Later on you get logos for new abilities. Its just way more engaging and repeatable than most dungeons to me. Hate it if you want, but overall it comes together to be something different. It was some of the most entertaining content i played in the last two expansions.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

In regards to people hurting their hands, when Pagos first launched SE didn't want people doing the fate train like Anemos so they made NMs give a pittance.

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They have stated that Pagos was already complete before they can take any feedback from Anemos. So that was not the case for Pagos. But even if we assumed that's the case, killing NMs was still an option and that's what I did for 90% of my time leveling in Pagos. Sure it took longer to level this way, but what's the rush for? Why spend time chaining over and over non stop just to level as quick as possible? If someone did that and injured themselves then again, that's on them. They need to learn how to control themselves.

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

https://www.wired.com/2008/08/pandemonium-war/

Here is an example of how poor design led to this, of people trying to beat something that caused them injury.

Carpal tunnel and wrist/finger injuries still count, no matter how minor they seem to you.

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So, you are comparing the seasonal Rising Event in 2018 to endgame FFXI content (Pandemonium Warden)? Really? Seriously?
Look, if you are dumb enough to sit in a spot for 16+ hours waiting for FATE's to pop, or 18 hours fighting a boss that was nearly impossible to kill in its time, then maybe you should rethink your priorities about gaming in general.
Honestly, you aren't going to get much sympathy here, and your topic is just going to turn to garbage posts and flame wars.