Jobs and Class, I am nervous now.

@OP: Jobs are made to work in party situations, meaning leave stoneskin and cures to the WHM and leave the MP regen to the BRD. Otherwise just spam Thunder>>Thundara combo until abilities that have long cool downs are up. The spam will be very possible if BRD MP regen is actually decent.

Also, like everyone else said. Wait until Friday, see how it works and if you don't like it write another wall of text describing why with specific examples from using the job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Let's say for the sake of sakefulness that he can use Chameleon. Let's also say for the sake of sakefulness that Freeze has a CD as low as 5m, and reduces enmity as much as Chameleon.

Let's speculate on and on for the sake of sakefulness.

OR

Let's admit we don't have the information and that this is a pointless discussion other than to vent our anticipation of the patch. Now that, I don't have to say for the sake of sakefulness.



OP's post isn't criticism. What he is attempting to criticize is not evident.

OP's post is much like that of paranoia. He's expressing fear of something he's not sure is there.

---

A fear that we may get yet another Choddy System that will have to be reworked 5 times before it proper. a fear based on a crappy video of an antiquated MMO mechanic followed by very little information on SE's part about jobs.

i'd say he's got a very valid fear...the stuff of SE's nightmares.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Touche sir. But there is small bits of evidence to piece together something, and what we do know I don't like what I see.

---

We've got enough pieces of the puzzle to know it's a four-legged animal of some sort.

We're missing too many pieces to tell for sure if it's a donkey or a strong, healthy horse.

We can go on and on and let our imaginations run wild trying to fill in the puzzle, but until we get more pieces we won't know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

It sure as hell ain't gonna be lower. Your scenario has too many variables - your hate management, your tank's efficiency, etc.

However, yes I agree. In the end, we'll know what we get when we get it.

---

yes, i know it has alot of variables. that was the point. the whole idea was just stating we can't compare a class that's in game now to a 30 second video of a job we haven't been able to test because it's not in game, yet.

it could have been just as gimp as they could get it and had no stats nor accessories on it. the only way any of us will ever know is when they come out unlock the jobs, complete the quests, get the abilities, and test them so we can compare them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valmonte

A fear that we may get yet another Choddy System that will have to be reworked 5 times before it proper. a fear based on a crappy video of an antiquated MMO mechanic followed by very little information on SE's part about jobs.

i'd say he's got a very valid fear...the stuff of SE's nightmares.

---

I'm not questioning the validity of fear. I'm simply saying it's not criticism.

How one person manages his expectations is no other person's business.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/293

Thought this might be nice for the discussion going on here.....
BLM can use PUG/ARC class skills...
therefore you can use chameleon and quelling strike it would seem.

Huzzah.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yes, i know it has alot of variables. that was the point. the whole idea was just stating we can't compare a class that's in game now to a 30 second video of a job we haven't been able to test because it's not in game, yet.

it could have been just as gimp as they could get it and had no stats nor accessories on it. the only way any of us will ever know is when they come out unlock the jobs, complete the quests, get the abilities, and test them so we can compare them.

---

The point is motive. If it doesn't do better damage than a THM, it's not desirable and therefore a waste. That's why I can say that it will do better. If it doesn't, it will be buffed to do better.

I play with a very, very competent tank. No matter what fight, none of us THMs in any party ever managed to stay in red. Chameleon, Quelling Strike and especially forced MP management make sure of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirOleas

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/293

Thought this might be nice for the discussion going on here.....
BLM can use PUG/ARC class skills...
therefore you can use chameleon and quelling strike it would seem.

Huzzah.

---

Well done!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirOleas

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/293

Thought this might be nice for the discussion going on here.....
BLM can use PUG/ARC class skills...
therefore you can use chameleon and quelling strike it would seem.

Huzzah.

---

Huzzah indeed, but no Sentinel, Stoneskin, or Raise, or Cure. I hope the white mages can handle all that responsibility.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Huzzah indeed, but no Sentinel, Stoneskin, or Raise, or Cure. I hope the white mages can handle all that responsibility.

---

Gonna be their job.

BLM has Sanguine Rite, which cuts more damage than Sentinel anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Huzzah indeed, but no Sentinel, Stoneskin, or Raise, or Cure. I hope the white mages can handle all that responsibility.

---

Sentinel isn't much to fret over imo.
Sanguine Rite gives you a similar damage reduction on THM which carries over to BLM since Jobs can use their main class skills.

Stoneskin and curing are a healers role thus the WHM better be taking care of it otherwise...they suck...>_> lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Gonna be their job.

BLM has Sanguine Rite, which cuts more damage than Sentinel anyway.

---

You beat me to it...lol

I do like to stoenskin myself though :c

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I do like to stoenskin myself though :c

---

Everyone like to do everything self-sufficiently themselves right now.

Jobs are completely in the other direction. They are more about playing your role even better, but depending on others to play their roles as well.

A party of jobs >>>>>>> a party of classes.

A solo job <<<<< a solo class.

That was the design philosophy, and this new info tells me they're going to be just that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Everyone like to do everything self-sufficiently themselves right now.

Jobs are completely in the other direction. They are more about playing your role even better, but depending on others to play their roles as well.

A party of jobs >>>>>>> a party of classes.

A solo job <<<<< a solo class.

That was the design philosophy, and this new info tells me they're going to be just that.

---

Wouldn't you say tht the Ifrit battle kinda forces you to be self-efficient to help out the healers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Wouldn't you say tht the Ifrit battle kinda forces you to be self-efficient to help out the healers?

---

I'm thinking that maybe it would be best for the DD's to go as classes for Ifrit, remembering that Jobs aren't meant to replace classes, since classes are more about self-sufficiency.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Wouldn't you say tht the Ifrit battle kinda forces you to be self-efficient to help out the healers?

---

True, I believe they have further shafted the DDs with the remove of few abilities "sentinel and cure" in particular in favor to the already popular ARC for those battles...

Yes, we still don't know how it will work, but I really can't say that the MNK is a much wanted job now more than the PGL was with those battles... unless his new abilities really wreck some havoc.

"I can't use stoneskin, healing spells, and -insert other class role here-..."

It's funny because as soon as Conjurer became an awesome healer with almost limitless supplies of MP, in Ifrit the healers and leaders still tell DD's to heal themselves when it's the roll of the healer to do that.

So when jobs come around in 5 days, YOU need to utilize your roll in a party... not everyone elses. Leave the healing to the conjurer and the support to the conjurer and the archer.

And the most important, WAIT TILL IT RELEASES

i thought for most part classes were for whatever and jobs were for endgame type stuff. so them being harder to use was supposed to be the point no? use them for endgame and have harder times with it then with our classes that you can pretty much have every spell/move. maybe they plan on making endgame only job specific and normal stuff class specific or job specific? or maybe that is the diff between difficulty modes? no idea till we see though, maybe the extra moves for jobs are what makes it relevent. also maybe the stats change too that we dont' know how much but they probably could have a affect to other things for those jobs. resistence or maybe bigger diff is to harder mobs like bosses. no clue yet. guess we will see soon enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

"I can't use stoneskin, healing spells, and -insert other class role here-..."

It's funny because as soon as Conjurer became an awesome healer with almost limitless supplies of MP, in Ifrit the healers and leaders still tell DD's to heal themselves when it's the roll of the healer to do that.

So when jobs come around in 5 days, YOU need to utilize your roll in a party... not everyone elses. Leave the healing to the conjurer and the support to the conjurer and the archer.

And the most important, WAIT TILL IT RELEASES

---

thats nice and logical and all but the current instance fights dont promote some DD jobs(not classes) very well to begin w/ and clustering up for heals in these fights is usually a bad idea except at very minuscule situations. I foresee people just doing it the way they already do after the job system is released. I dont see PGL/MNK gettin any less better at being a complete MP sponge during ifrit/moogle fights lol. And a THM that cant heal others in those OH! SHIT! moments or themselves reliably enough to just survive wont be any better at DDing when they are dead. And there is this entire gimpy spell problem w/ not being able to cure people standing next to you while yer on a 2inch incline higher than them problem too that still exist that shouldnt.

Kinda feels like people are uneasy about the additions for reasons other than the logistics of this new system >_>...
AKA their own ability/other people's ability to not suck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

thats nice and logical and all but the current instance fights dont promote some DD jobs(not classes) very well to begin w/ and clustering up for heals in these fights is usually a bad idea except at very minuscule situations. I foresee people just doing it the way they already do after the job system is released. I dont see PGL/MNK gettin any less better at being a complete MP sponge during ifrit/moogle fights lol. And a THM that cant heal others in those OH! SHIT! moments or themselves reliably enough to just survive wont be any better at DDing when they are dead. And there is this entire gimpy spell problem w/ not being able to cure people standing next to you while yer on a 2inch incline higher than them problem too that still exist that shouldnt.

---

The whole thing about PGL/MNK being a sponge is kind of moot. The class requires attention on the enemy, your health bar, positioning, and your mp bar as well. Needless to say the class takes skill. My leader in my linkshell uses PGL for the moogle fight and does amazing dps because he knows what he's doing.

Thaumaturges healing others or themselves? They can cross class second wind. Plus they shouldn't be getting hit unelss they are getting WAY too much enmity or getting hit by eruptions or any other type of move that they can miss.

And you can't just focus the jobs around the primal fights, because I know that's exactly what you are talking about lol. It's party play, requiring the party to mesh together, not be individual healers/supporters/dd's/tanks all in one class. I can't wait since this patch with jobs will have an incentive to stay alive. Not everyone will be able to raise, not everyone will be able to heal effectively, and not everyone will be able to do two roles effectively. This is what I've been waiting for!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Gonna be their job.

BLM has Sanguine Rite, which cuts more damage than Sentinel anyway.

---

Nope. Sentinel reduces more but it lacks the other perks of Sanguine.

This all looks very well thought out and I personally am very happy with it. Everyone seems to be focusing on what they CAN'T use anymore and forget the very powerful new abilities being added for the jobs, as well as the gear which I believe was said recently rivals multi-melded gear.

WHM's will still be able to sentinel and BLM's can still sanguine rite. Other classes will have to rely on BRD and WHM assistance. (now that BRDs won't be DDs, they will be more available to assist the WHM between songs, being the only job that can)

For those concerned with ifrit, I would imagine PLD WHM WHM BRD BLM BLM BLM BLM will still get the job done, the BRD generally curing and stoneskinning (and raising) the BLMs between songs. Also perhaps give BLMs the TP song during phase I so that they have TP to second wind during the fight. Also as a THM I know I can solo an infernal nail pretty easily. If 4 BLMs can't take a nail each (or even the new suped up DRG and MNK) and minimize hellfire damage, I don't know what can.

Obviously this is all speculation, but my point is a lot of ppl are panicking because jobs are doing exactly what SE said they were going to do. Jobs are gonna lose the diversity a bit, but become far more powerful at what their supposed to do. And we'll finally have a true support job!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IStolzI

Obviously this is all speculation, but my point is a lot of ppl are panicking because jobs are doing exactly what SE said they were going to do. Jobs are gonna lose the diversity a bit, but become far more powerful at what their supposed to do. And we'll finally have a true support job!

---

The problem is that people lack the will to try. period. Everyone will b@$$# about how there are no tough battles in the game, but tell them that you want to bring a PGL to ifrit and watch them bale like cowards two seconds after. People reached the mentality with ifrit fights that if they fail once, they'll leave the party and come back not 2 mins later with another party doing ifrit... I can name names here if you want, but can you be more of an @$$hole to the people around you like that? I don't know.

Then comes the people saying don't just think of jobs in primal battles. Then think of them in what? The joke of a party that is natalan? (which i did with no tank, no healers at times). or the power level parties from 1-40? How about Dzamel DH that everyone just run to the boss? (maybe the no run and cast will make this harder).

Basically the new content have to make these jobs viable for people to use. Yes, you can use them in natalan parties, then again, who cares? any set-up works there. Just spank strategy, don't even need tank.

I'm intrigued by the post saying "The system starts at level 30, and features a sequence of special quests available at certain levels that unlock systems, abilities, and job-specific equipment" what is unlocking systems? is just the equip job system? in that case, meh.

Oh, and is it just me or does the Marauder get no love in what so ever way. It only unlocks WAR and it's not needed or used for sub abilities by anyone LOL

Its used for Paladin sub abilities too. We gotta have provoke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teknoman

Its used for Paladin sub abilities too. We gotta have provoke.

---

Lol how did I miss that :)

Sorry but Noctis is right.

With the THM trait, Sanguine Rite provides a 50% damage reduction for ALL team members.

Sentinel on any class apart from gladiator only provides 30% damage reductions.

Your facts, check them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kikosho

Nope. Sentinel reduces more but it lacks the other perks of Sanguine.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Junpei

Sorry but Noctis is right.

With the THM trait, Sanguine Rite provides a 50% damage reduction for ALL team members.

Sentinel on any class apart from gladiator only provides 30% damage reductions.

Your facts, check them.

---

Beat me to it! Jue jue jue.

Fixed it for ya tho :P

Ifrit/Moogle fights are currently done with classes, so we can simply keep doing them with classes.

New primals, raids, dungeons, strongholds will all be made for jobs, so the balance will be fine. Stop whining about what you can't use and start planning ahead about how awesome certain other things are going to be.

Videos are not accurate displays of stats and damage, and everyone should know that by this point.

Remember Dzemael Darkhold video, the ahrimans dealing 8k damage?
Remember Ifrit video, characters with wildly different HP/MP values that people thought was due to materia?


Same thing here.

As for the whole "Wahh, can't use Sentinelskinvigoratewind anymore", the whole point of the job system is to specialize players so they excel on a certain role while needing more party support due to not being as self sufficient as before. So, yeah, a BLM might not be able to use sentinel / stoneskin on Hellfire, but will be dealing more damage and white mages / paladins are better prepared to protect and heal a party after this kind of attack - so you won't be needing it anyways if all goes well.

Not to mention that, as others mentioned, you can still use classes and I'm pretty sure there will still be certain strategies and content where people will indeed prefer to go as classes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Beat me to it! Jue jue jue.

Fixed it for ya tho :P

---

my posts are like a car crash, that one leg flying into the distance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Videos are not accurate displays of stats and damage, and everyone should know that by this point.

Remember Dzemael Darkhold video, the ahrimans dealing 8k damage?
Remember Ifrit video, characters with wildly different HP/MP values that people thought was due to materia?


Same thing here.

As for the whole "Wahh, can't use Sentinelskinvigoratewind anymore", the whole point of the job system is to specialize players so they excel on a certain role while needing more party support due to not being as self sufficient as before. So, yeah, a BLM might not be able to use sentinel / stoneskin on Hellfire, but will be dealing more damage and white mages / paladins are better prepared to protect and heal a party after this kind of attack - so you won't be needing it anyways if all goes well.

Not to mention that, as others mentioned, you can still use classes and I'm pretty sure there will still be certain strategies and content where people will indeed prefer to go as classes.

---

This this and This!!! This Right here closes this thread because this thread was based off of the Teaser Spellcasting Changes! This video is no different than the ones mentioned.

OP has a point, guys, and you know it.

This whole mentality of wait to question changes until its too late and set in stone crap is retarded and fanboyish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

OP has a point, guys, and you know it.

This whole mentality of wait to question changes until its too late and set in stone crap is retarded and fanboyish.

---

Can't Change coding Idea's etc etc in 3 days time.. no question with change the outcome of the patch.. not that quick.. best thing to do is wait till patch if you have problems with it Then discuss it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

OP has a point, guys, and you know it.

This whole mentality of wait to question changes until its too late and set in stone crap is retarded and fanboyish.

---

OP only has a point IF all he assumed is true, and all of his assumptions are based of a video that was NOT intended to show off the power of BLM abilities, not to mention that the stats on EVERY single video SE released up to this point did NOT reflect actual in-game numbers.

If the video was a showcase for the new BLM abilities and they did deal that damage, then OP would have a point.

And if we start analysing the video, we also realize that

A) All sleeps worked
B) Even the regular sleep spell had no recast time
C) Kobolds received - just enough - damage to die in time to show everything they wanted to
D) Not a single spell failed, got resisted or cancelled by a hit.

This doesn't happen under regular in-game conditions, sorry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

OP has a point, guys, and you know it.

This whole mentality of wait to question changes until its too late and set in stone crap is retarded and fanboyish.

---

You mean like how everyone jumped on Server Merge option 4 sucking hard before seeing it in action, then when option 2 was implemented it caused all kinds of people/linkshells to be unable to move to new servers due to SE's attempts to balance the player counts across all servers equally?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon

You mean like how everyone jumped on Server Merge option 4 sucking hard before seeing it in action, then when option 2 was implemented it caused all kinds of people/linkshells to be unable to move to new servers due to SE's attempts to balance the player counts across all servers equally?

---

There is a difference between OP's analysis and the general forum stupidity that went on regarding the merge options.

I wonder if I can jump hellfire. Lol.

Also folks don't forget that medicines/food will be a big part of the game here on. The time for relying on sentinel is over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zezlar

I wonder if I can jump hellfire. Lol.

Also folks don't forget that medicines/food will be a big part of the game here on. The time for relying on sentinel is over.

---

jup i think so too, and thank god for that