Viera and Hrothgar clans detailed on official site

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Originally Posted by programcanaan

Would it have killed them to make the Veena render darker skinned? They both look Rava lol.

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I noticed they seem to have an aversion to including really dark-skinned females, in particular. We still have more dark-skinned males than females. The best example that comes to mind is M'naago, and she's not even that dark-skinned.

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

I noticed they seem to have an aversion to including really dark-sinned females, in particular. We still have more dark-skinned males than females. The best example that comes to mind is M'naago, and she's not even that dark-skinned.

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Probably a Japan thing. Girls want to be as pale as possible over there. :v They've got all sorts of skin lightening creams and stuff. Not surprised we got a Viera clan whose main identifier is their "snow white skin."


Funny thing is that it is the opposite situation in the west, tanning beds and all that.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

Probably a Japan thing. Girls want to be as pale as possible over there. :v They've got all sorts of skin lightening creams and stuff. Not surprised we got a Viera clan whose main identifier is their "snow white skin."

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Guys too, tho. :D It's more like "Asian" thing, than Japanese.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

Probably a Japan thing. Girls want to be as pale as possible over there. :v They've got all sorts of skin lightening creams and stuff. Not surprised we got a Viera clan whose main identifier is their "snow white skin."


Funny thing is that it is the opposite situation in the west, tanning beds and all that.

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Also, the Ganguro lifestyle, which is based off of America (florida and California mostly) which a lot of Japan detests. I also understand why they don't like dark skin tones (aside from them considering paler colors to also be a sign of purity)

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

I noticed they seem to have an aversion to including really dark-skinned females, in particular. We still have more dark-skinned males than females. The best example that comes to mind is M'naago, and she's not even that dark-skinned.

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Japan loves its delicious brown. Brown skin, European features and blonde/white hair.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

Also, the Ganguro lifestyle, which is based off of America (florida and California mostly) which a lot of Japan detests. I also understand why they don't like dark skin tones (aside from them considering paler colors to also be a sign of purity)

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In case with skin, pale color is more about aristocratism and dark color is about working on the fields (because of sun). :think: Well, if speak about Asian culture, not about racial features.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

Probably a Japan thing. Girls want to be as pale as possible over there. :v They've got all sorts of skin lightening creams and stuff. Not surprised we got a Viera clan whose main identifier is their "snow white skin."


Funny thing is that it is the opposite situation in the west, tanning beds and all that.

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More like because of the face options being mostly in the Caucasian and sometimes Japanese beauty standard ballpark, the darkest skin options tend to go into uncanny valley territory.

https://media.giphy.com/media/en3gDaZIMZBiU/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

I don't care what excuses you guys come up for them. When they write in suggesting Lyse is somehow supposed to be Curtis's biological daughter, or when they write the description for Veena as being "umber" toned and make her look just like the Rava, I'm gonna be a bit upset.

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I did wonder why Lyse was white if her dad was black, but you can't just ask someone why they're white.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

I did wonder why Lyse was white if her dad was black, but you can't just ask someone why they're white.

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They're of another world. Sure you can make a comparison to Domans being Asian but they're not Asian. Dark skinned characters have a brown complexion, but they are not Black.

viera will have sun seeker and moon keeper variety in skin
while Hrothgar will have Raen and Xaela with a fur texture + spots

my guess

They really could have gone a couple of shades darker for their "darker skinned tribe" preview, though I'm not surprised that they made the choices they did the main one on display is more pleasantly tan than she is dark, mind you she's quite lovely and I'll probably end up with at least one viera that is designed similarly, and another with more traditional ffxii viera colors.

For hrothgar though.. >.> what should hroth-cules look like i wonder... do we go kevin sorbo or the rock..

https://i.imgur.com/VB246vC.jpg

EDIT: not mine, I found it on reddit

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Originally Posted by Lacan

EDIT: not mine, I found it on reddit

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This is my headcanon nothing will take it away from me.

I found it funny they tried to emphasize the Rava camouflaging themselves because of the skin. Maybe the game will prove me wrong but that Rava viera they showed off doesn't look like she'd be hard to spot in a jungle. Was also kind of funny they mentioned the skin differences but it really just looks like the Rava viera got a nice tan at the beach. I'm sure both clans will have more skin options but it kind of amused me.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

So Hrothgar females do exist, they're just rare. :v How convenient.

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just like Duskwight Elezen and male Miqo'te...

I hope we can make a black panther looking Hrothgar!

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Originally Posted by Hazmick

just like Duskwight Elezen and male Miqo'te...

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Ignoring the (admittedly lame) real life reason we can’t play male viera and female hrothgar, it still makes sense by a lore standpoint why we can play male miqo and duskwights. A race/gender being rare and also from a continent or a part of a continent we have no access to is completely different from a race/gender that is rare and also has a history of roaming around on our home continent where there is also a culture of adventuring.

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Originally Posted by Aryalandi

They really could have gone a couple of shades darker for their "darker skinned tribe" preview, though I'm not surprised that they made the choices they did the main one on display is more pleasantly tan than she is dark, mind you she's quite lovely and I'll probably end up with at least one viera that is designed similarly, and another with more traditional ffxii viera colors.

For hrothgar though.. >.> what should hroth-cules look like i wonder... do we go kevin sorbo or the rock..

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Depends.
Helion = Rock
Lost = Sorbo
I mean the fur tones alone should sell which is which.

I hope it's not going to be only just straight palette changes for the differences between the sub races. If they're only going to give us one gender of each, they could at least make the sub-races be noticeably distinct.

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hailing from the distance shores of Ilsabard, the Hrothgar are a burly people of lionlike appearance-or the males are at least. Females number staggeringly few among their population, and thus are rarely so much as glimpsed by the other races

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I guess the women stay home and be pregnant?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I hope it's not going to be only just straight palette changes for the differences between the sub races. If they're only going to give us one gender of each, they could at least make the sub-races be noticeably distinct.

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From what I remember from the reveal demo, depending on what Head model you pick you also get a particular fur pattern on the Hrothgar's right shoulder. (ruddy tones for the Lionen head, stripes for the tiger head, spots for the leopard head, and ruffage for the lupine head.)

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

From what I remember from the reveal demo, depending on what Head model you pick you also get a particular fur pattern on the Hrothgar's right shoulder. (ruddy tones for the Lionen head, stripes for the tiger head, spots for the leopard head, and ruffage for the lupine head.)

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So it's not unlike au ra and their horns then. Maybe they'll give different patterns to the different subraces. Hopefully.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I hope it's not going to be only just straight palette changes for the differences between the sub races. If they're only going to give us one gender of each, they could at least make the sub-races be noticeably distinct.

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Don’t count on it - the whole point of the split races was so they only had to make two gender-of-race models instead of four. Making physically different clan models would defeat the purpose of the split.

Anyway, the clans are shown on the website, and they’re palette swaps.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I guess the women stay home and be pregnant?

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https://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons...60/fantasy.jpg

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Originally Posted by Penthea

So it's not unlike au ra and their horns then. Maybe they'll give different patterns to the different subraces. Hopefully.

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Technically but not exactly, the Horns on Au Ra are entirely cosmetic, If there was an option to not have them then most probably would pick that since they get in all of the ways. but the patterns on the Hrothgar are directly linked to the Heads from what I can understand from the Reveal, it's possible the heads are restricted by clan, like the Lion and Tiger heads are Helions and the leopard and Lupine heads are Lost, or all four are available to both clans.

Noone knows till they;re releases properly or the keynote i may says anything.

Good signs that they won't bother making the other genders that no one will play

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Originally Posted by MPK

Good signs that they won't bother making the other genders that no one will play

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No one likes you Mirabelle, go home!

Love the lion/snow leopard divide in the clans and the lore about their queen makes me excited to hear from ronso NPCs. I want to be one but the fact that they won't wear a lot of headgear at launch is a big enough reason to wait till 5.2 or 5.3 when they're finally finished.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

Technically but not exactly, the Horns on Au Ra are entirely cosmetic...

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This is not true. Au Ra horns are how they hear, they are essentially "ears" for the Au Ra. If you had a hornless Au Ra, they would most likely be a form of deaf. It isn't just purely cosmetic for them.

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

I don't care what excuses you guys come up for them. When they write in suggesting Lyse is somehow supposed to be Curtis's biological daughter, or when they write the description for Veena as being "umber" toned and make her look just like the Rava, I'm gonna be a bit upset.

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They're not real people though. Like, literally none of that nonsense has to apply because it's not the real world, Lyse could be green-skinned with pink hair and it still wouldn't matter. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by programcanaan

Would it have killed them to make the Veena render darker skinned? They both look Rava lol.

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other way around, rava are the darker skinned clan... but i agree. i'm also "hmm" about the only identifying feature between the two clans is their... skin colour? ._. although i'm inclined to believe that even tho rava are darker skinned and veena are lighter, the colour palette choices can allow for a tanner veena and vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

Technically but not exactly, the Horns on Au Ra are entirely cosmetic, If there was an option to not have them then most probably would pick that since they get in all of the ways.

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Actually au ra horns act as their ears. They hear sound from vibrations in their horns.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/65/c4...44a081a2ab.gif

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Originally Posted by programcanaan

Would it have killed them to make the Veena render darker skinned? They both look Rava lol.

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That does irk me quite a lot, like it goes from pale to...lightly tanned?

Buuuuuut there's a nice thing in the descriptions that only mentions their opposite sex being "rare" (in both Viera and Hrothgar), opening them up for adding the missing genders later down the road. In fact, the male Viera even contradicts the dramaturge now. "Males of age are seldom, if ever, found within the bounds of any village" instead of "to us, they might not exist" the whole "prohibited from contact with the outside world" would apply to both men and women, as well.

Hrothgar on the other hand, handwaves it even easier, "rarely so much as glimpsed by the other races" still implies they've been seen and we know they exist, and since the PC is always an outlier that belongs nowhere, it's a decent excuse to bring them later down the line :D

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

Maybe they should have given Curtis green skin instead of dark brown, then people wouldn't make real-world connections. Instead, and I'm not sorry for calling it out, it looks like casual racism. They should really work on that.

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I'm goign to say no on the simple grounds that you have the option to make a -dark-skinned character so it's not racism. Can we not over react?

I'm actually warming to the Hrothgar. I like the lore I've read. Looking forward to making one when the benchmark drops.

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

Maybe they should have given Curtis green skin instead of dark brown, then people wouldn't make real-world connections. Instead, and I'm not sorry for calling it out, it looks like casual racism. They should really work on that.

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Ok, that's a great point. Maybe I should put more thought into the overall real-life social implications my online videogame could have the next time I see people with horns fighting dragons by shooting magic along-side midget people in full armor doing 30 foot backflips on a circular arena in the sky.

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Originally Posted by Colino

Ok, that's a great point. Maybe I should put more thought into the overall real-life social implications my online videogame could have the next time I see people with horns fighting dragons by shooting magic along-side midget people in full armor doing 30 foot backflips on a circular arena in the sky.

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Like, I'm not offended by it, I just thought it was really strange for them to make her dad so dark when Lyse is so fair skinned. Why would they do that? Even in the XIV world kids tend to look like their parents. It makes 0 sense for her dad to be so dark and Lyse to be so light skinned.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/sgkmfZT4PIKUE/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Lacan

Like, I'm not offended by it, I just thought it was really strange for them to make her dad so dark when Lyse is so fair skinned. Why would they do that? Even in the XIV world kids tend to look like their parents. It makes 0 sense for her dad to be so dark and Lyse to be so light skinned.

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Absolutely, it does make little sense and to be honest it took me for a whirl too, but is it really that strange compared to everything else that happens in the game?

Stretching it from "that's a bit odd" to "OMG racism" is what bothers me, especially when you are painting a whole group of hard-working intelligent people (that you don't know personally and for all you know could be the least racist people on this planet) as racist is absurdist and way more offensive than anything being implied in the game to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

It looks racist to not be able to include any black females in the game

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But you can? I'm not sure who's doing gymnastics here, but you're definitely the one making stuff up now.

You keep calling people you've never met in your life racist if that's what floats your boat. I'd rather judge people by the content of their character and not some arbitrary measure like what colour their fictional characters are.