More 8 man dungeons?

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Originally Posted by Freyt

I just want unique dungeons and I don't see that happening with the 4 man standard.


Things like parties splitting to get things done and such, going in separate directions, or activating panels at the same time to open doors, things like that.

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This is actually interesting. If an 8-man dungeon was to automatically make two 4-man parties, this could be a thing. If there are no forced cut scenes, made to be optional, give an alternative way to gear up, have an min ilv requirement, and designed correctly; 8-man dungeons could very well be new content. They could at least try it, and see how the player reaction is.

The way I see it is everyone starts up together, takes down some trash mobs and are forcibly split to engage their own set of trash mobs, and a mini boss that blocks further progression. The mini boss is basically just one mob with a high HP pool; nothing too threatening. The path splits are also random each time so neither group A or B will know exactly where they'll end up even when doing multiple runs, and on multiple splits. The paths would have to be balanced though, so big pulls would be out. We don't want to have one group waiting too long for the other. After the mini bosses, the two parties rendezvous for the actual boss which can be made to be more difficult. Two chests drop for each group similar to the three for alliance raids for each boss, and I say go ahead and put three bosses in these dungeons. Average clear time would need to be around 25-30 minutes.

I'd say to try this content out by making it an optional quest with a small storyline and a nice little reward. They were willing to make a 4-man EX with Rathalos in the collaboration event, so I see no reason to not give this a go. If they did have 8-man content like this, I would love to do it. I would also do it repeatedly if needed to work towards a mount/emotes/glamours, all of those things we just love.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

Pretty much as the topic says. There seems to be a huge desire for 8 man dungeons that are not raids. Something similar to the main story roulette but not a main story dungeon with long cutscenes if you know what i mean.
Is there a reason for this not being a thing yet?
It gives us the chance to help more people and take along more people from our FCs/friendslist/LS so more people can get xp and do things together.

EDIT: Just to clarify since people are jumping to conclusions really fast, NO ONE WANTS LONG CUTSCNES THAT ARE UNSKIPPABLE. A cutscene in the beginning when you enter and one after the final boss is all thats needed.

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Can’t say I’ve ever met anyone who asks for 8-man dungeons. Harder 4-man dungeons? Yes. WoW’s Mythic+ system for 4-man dungeons? Frequently. But 8-man dungeons? Never seen anyone ever suggest that here, in-game, or on Reddit.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

I've come across many people that wants dungeons to be more 8 man. You can bring more people with you and you can do stuff in bigger groups. It does create a bigger social aspect and a bigger mass can get to enjoy things together. We are mashing buttons right now through the regular dungeons, it's not like that they are hard in the first place. 4 man dungeons are tiresome and most people don't even want to bare redo roulettes after the daily reward is given so why not figure out different ways to appeal to the mass?

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There’s nothing to guarantee that the 8-man dungeons wouldn’t also be giant facerolls.

The most commonly suggested “different way to appeal to the masses” with regards to dungeons seems to be integrating a Mythic+ style system to the 4-man style dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Freyt

I just want unique dungeons and I don't see that happening with the 4 man standard.


Things like parties splitting to get things done and such, going in separate directions, or activating panels at the same time to open doors, things like that.

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This happens in BA, which has by far the best raid design since coil.
I hope they have more things like this.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Can’t say I’ve ever met anyone who asks for 8-man dungeons. Harder 4-man dungeons? Yes. WoW’s Mythic+ system for 4-man dungeons? Frequently. But 8-man dungeons? Never seen anyone ever suggest that here, in-game, or on Reddit.



There’s nothing to guarantee that the 8-man dungeons wouldn’t also be giant facerolls.

The most commonly suggested “different way to appeal to the masses” with regards to dungeons seems to be integrating a Mythic+ style system to the 4-man style dungeons.

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I'm all for more difficulty in dungeon or actual hard mode version, maybe something akin to the level of Mythic dungeons in WoW, but I don't really care for the timed +affix system of Mythic+.

And I'm not sure how the reward structure of the game would have to change if such a system were to be implemented. I kind of like it as it is already.

Never heard of a "huge" demand for 8man dgn. A lot of different styled 4man or harder 4man for certain but never 8man anything.

If anything, the 8man content I've seen people, myself included, clamoring for is a return to the style of early coil and early alexander. Basically big map styled 8man raid.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

There seems to be a huge desire for 8 man dungeons that are not raids.

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What's the difference? Other than the name?

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

What's the difference? Other than the name?

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Presumably difficulty and reward.

I'm always on board for more dungeons. Some variety would be nice, so having more players involved could make things different.

If done right 8-man dungeons could be pretty cool. Also on that same note I'd also like to see more harder 4-man content like the Rathalos trial.

Dangerous 8 man dungeons inspired by PotD and BA would be great !

Oh yeah....
I kind of forgot that the MSQ duties were special in this way.
I wouldn't mind them, but mechanically they really need a reason to actually exist.
You know, make use of the fact that the party has two tanks and healers.
The MSQ dungeons get away with being the cheesefests that they are since they were the first level capped dungeons in the game. (and cutscenes make them take long enough as it is)
Thinking about it it is somewhat surprising they haven't added any more eight man dungeons since, well, the release of ARR.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

Pretty much as the topic says. There seems to be a huge desire for 8 man dungeons that are not raids. Something similar to the main story roulette but not a main story dungeon with long cutscenes if you know what i mean.
Is there a reason for this not being a thing yet?
It gives us the chance to help more people and take along more people from our FCs/friendslist/LS so more people can get xp and do things together.

EDIT: Just to clarify since people are jumping to conclusions really fast, NO ONE WANTS LONG CUTSCNES THAT ARE UNSKIPPABLE. A cutscene in the beginning when you enter and one after the final boss is all thats needed.

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I have no desire for this.

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Originally Posted by Noodle_Trinidad

The original Aurum Vale, Cutter’s Cry and, correct if im mistaken on this one, Dzhaemel Stronghold were all 8 man dungeons that didn’t really have cutscenes. They were pretty much just full dungeons scaled for 8-man with CC even having your party to split up between areas.

More than certain they could bring those designs up to the modern 2.0+ battle system and get something of note, hell bring back the bonus chests for speedrunning, killing certain and/or enemies and the like back to make dungeon glamour acquisition easier.

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Yes I'm aware of how 1.0's dungeons worked. And as much as I'd like to go into detail about how those dungeons worked too (being a 1.0 player myself), it's kind of farfetch'd for the devs to re-implement that back into the game. I actually liked old Ifrit and Titan as opposed to the newer version we have in story mode and trial/extreme now. I also enjoyed some of the older dungeons as they were. I also liked hamlet and I sure as hell don't see that coming back anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

If it's not a raid that has loot, it's gonna get some unskippable cutscenes. That's been made apparent after that whole fiasco of msq. Nobody wants that happening a second, third or fourth time. In past Tokyo interviews over the last couple years, they've already stated they're not doing any more 8 man dungeons for MSQ related content. Doesn't make sense for dungeons since we already have the 4 man. Raid is 8 man with loot for DF. Trials have 8 man with loot. Alliance is 24 man, so that's out of the question. So it comes back to only one possibility, which is MSQ with no loot (which means unskippable cutscenes again).

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If the dungeons are not part of the msq it doesn't need any long unskippable cutscenes. The msq just got it because people complained because others didn't wait for them when they watched the endless cutscenes, which were a major design error.
You are just assuming that they gonna get long cutscenes but we can all be very certain that SE won't be that stupid again.

It can work very well if done correctly. Right now the 4 man dungeons are nothing more than a huge button mash with a formula thats 2 bosses before the final boss with really not much to do. Tank mass pulls if there are aoe jobs heal beat boss rinse and repeat. Only boss that I've seen been any different is the puzzle boss in that SB dungeon where you had to walk and do things without actually killing the boss.
8 man dungeons with mechanics could work if you focus it on 1 tank 1-2 healers and the rest are DPS so more people can enter through roulette or you bring more people. The rewards can be as usual gears, minion but the gameplay can be different. You need to split up press levers do a puzzle or two thats different everytime get something from position A to bring it to position B etc etc
Minus cutscenes during the dungeon but all cutscenes are welcomed after the dungeon and a short one in the beginning :)

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

Right now the 4 man dungeons are nothing more than a huge button mash with a formula thats 2 bosses before the final boss with really not much to do. Tank mass pulls if there are aoe jobs heal beat boss rinse and repeat.
The rewards can be as usual gears, minion but the gameplay can be different. You need to split up press levers do a puzzle or two thats different everytime get something from position A to bring it to position B etc etc

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But, just because 8 man dungeons can be different doesn't necessarily mean they will be different.

As is right now, the current 8 man dungeons are also just a huge button mash. Where tanks just mass pull down slightly longer linear corridors. Where bosses are in fact, less interesting than current 4 man bosses (In so much as most of them don't seem to have many mechanics other than "Here's a bunch of adds. Have funOHWAITI'MDEAD"

Now, given how they mentioned that Ghimlyt Dark took extra long to make than usual dungeons and it in of itself is not a whole lot different. What is the likelyhood that 8 man dungeons would end up being this wholly unique and interesting piece of content that makes full use of all 8 players?

Pretty much zero.

If, they have actually dedicated time and resources developing Raids to cater towards players whom are more likely to participate in mechanics and appreciate design and they churn out essentially renamed trials. What is the likelyhood that 8 man dungeons wouldn't just end up being actual Trials.

Pretty much zero.

Like, the idea behind it is solid. 8 man dungeons could be interesting. It's just, will it ever happen? Probably not. First they need to fix 4 man dungeons and Raids.

Make 4 man dungeons less monotonous and same-y. Make Raids actually Raids again and incorporate similar mechanics as you might want to see in 8 man dungeons (So parties split into "Light Parties" and go separate ways. Where you actually "Raid" a place and go around dismantling for example defences and alarums before diving into an Imperial stronghold. Where there are objectives to interact with things, such as grabbing explosives from the armoury and taking them to anti-airship weapons and then defending them while their timers tick down and blow up the weapons and allow an allied airship to come and drop in reinforcements to push through to the command centre.)

Since, if they aren't designing current 4 mans in interesting ways and they aren't designing 8 man Raids in interesting ways, then it's just going to mean that if they added any 8 man dungeons, they too, wouldn't be designed in interesting ways.

I agree with you that the 4 man dungeon can get very boring and they lack a lot of creativity. Why its become this i dont really know but if you compare with FFXI for example you had to do a lot of things in a dungeon before you reach the designated boss. Remeber chains of promathia? If you havent played FFXI there is a dungeon called pso'xja wich is a perfect example of things to do in a dungeon to reach diabolos. If you do that with 6 people you can surely make something similiar here. Yes I know FFXI is sneak/invi your way to diabolos but you can surely make a curve thats similar where we go through a maze we gotta do certain things to make it to the end. Even temple of uggalepih was creative with making the brush lanterns etc etc.. it doesnt even have to be a timed dungeon.. Something on the world map that requires 8 people to explore would have been a beautiful thing because Duty Finder is among the most unpersonal things introduced to FFXIV :(

It could be good for Free Companies that run events together and what not but outside of that not sure.
They would really need to tune up the challenge part and make it rewarding if they were to actually add 8 man dungeons

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Originally Posted by SkizzleAbernath

I agree with you that the 4 man dungeon can get very boring and they lack a lot of creativity. Why its become this i dont really know

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Because people complained when anyone made their runs longer.

Like, in ARR content there was plenty of little side alcoves with treasure chests and the like. Spending all of 10 seconds to go pick up a chest was too much for lots of people and so they complained. That's how we ended up with Hallway Simulator 2019.

That's why the have to artificially block off the path so people don't just pull everything from boss to boss.

Because people are too impatient to let people have fun playing content.

Probably not helped that the game was designed with this awkward dichotomy. Where new players need to group up to take on Dungeons and Trials for the MSQ, so in order to fill out the queues for this content so players can progress the MSQ, end-game and leveling is focused into spamming Duty Roulettes endlessly. This means any slight deviation starts to add up and annoy players whom are trying to be efficient and maximize their farming (I mean, just look at how many complaints the MSQ Roulette gets about the cutscenes... It takes like 20 minutes to get through the place with cutscenes and gives a hefty reward as compensation (I personally just do puzzles on my tablet during cutscenes... I'm getting pretty good at Sudoku these days))

It's generally why this kind of content that is more interesting and creative needs to be isolated into a niche, as opposed to something that becomes a core part of MSQ or general Roulette play. Since if you're farming it a ton because you're grinding Tomestones or Experience then you don't want each run to take like 40-60 minutes just because there's people who are new and want to experience the place fully.

One can only hope that with the incoming Trust system that looks to allow people to do MSQ duties solo, that they can have more freedom to detach grinding from Duties somewhat, and thus allow more creative dungeons because they don't have to conform to those players that just want to rush through the place 1000 times a day.

The most annoying thing for me, is that they have some decent potential to make really interesting content using some existing systems.

For example, PotD/HoH style deep dungeons with randomized layouts. Where you go in with an 8 person party and some sections have you need to split up into 2 teams to clear a room (Or entire path) each. Where there might be more systems in play to progress through floors than "Kill stuff until the exit opens" such as ye olde coloured keycards xD Then, given Deep Dungeons are based on roguelite games, make it so each room you HAVE to clear to progress through it, so you don't also get the current "Run past everything" meta (So you go in, use a thing to "Activate" the room and then the way you came in closes off and the enemies spawn)

Another example is Eureka. But as an entire raid tier per "Zone". So you can dynamically choose which boss to go fight in what order. Maybe some bosses have certain spawning mechanics, such as killing certain enemies, maybe some you have to search the island for a randomly spawning item that summons a boss, maybe you have to beat 2 minibosses at the same time, but they're on opposite ends of the island. All the while, trying to traverse through actually threatening trash mobs that are about the place.

Just gotta keep in mind that anything that isn't boring linear dungeons and "Trial" style boss in an arena duties with get all these players crying about how long it takes to clear this content they're farming.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Because people complained when anyone made their runs longer.

Like, in ARR content there was plenty of little side alcoves with treasure chests and the like. Spending all of 10 seconds to go pick up a chest was too much for lots of people and so they complained. That's how we ended up with Hallway Simulator 2019.

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To be fair, there's rarely anything worth it in those out-of-the-way chests.

What I really would like is variable size content.

Example: the game tries to take up to 5 minutes to form a party for VariableDungeonX. Always demand a tank and a healer.
Once the 5 minutes are up, if there are 4 or more players, open the dungeon.

For every additional DPS player, automatically apply an HP buff to every enemy in the dungeon.

Of course, if at 5 minutes there are not 4 players, keep matching.

I'm fairly certain you made a post on reddit about this exact same thing.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

If the dungeons are not part of the msq it doesn't need any long unskippable cutscenes. The msq just got it because people complained because others didn't wait for them when they watched the endless cutscenes, which were a major design error.
You are just assuming that they gonna get long cutscenes but we can all be very certain that SE won't be that stupid again.

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You assume they haven't done anything stupid before. Let me remind you of just a few:
Exhibit A: Diadem part I.
Exhibit B: Diadem part II.
Exhibit C: Eureka (which became essentially Diadem III).

Where is it that they weren't stupid to doing something again and again and again exactly? IT took 3 tries before they got something somewhat right (but still needs updates to hydatos. But don't think it'll matter anyways by then since we'll be working in ShB anyways). Let me also remind you that the devs just took a look at the current numbers of Eureka, which left backlash (into pagos and up) because of the way people did fate trains (and essentially tried to change this, an already working system for everyone and got trampled).

If you're assuming they wouldn't do something that stupid again, then you're incredibly naive a player. Don't drink the Koolaid just yet.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

Where is it that they weren't stupid to doing something again and again and again exactly?

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As far as it relates to putting long cutscenes in the middle of a dungeon, they have not done it again. Making a new 8-man dungeon wouldn't suddenly make them want to put long cutscenes in it.

I have no real desire for them. SUre, they could be less painful than the two we have by NOT flooding them with a half hour of cutscenes, but I don't really see what it would add either.

No thanks, it's 4 extra people to either babysit, or 4 extra bodies to throw at a super simple boss till it dies.

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Originally Posted by linay

As far as it relates to putting long cutscenes in the middle of a dungeon, they have not done it again. Making a new 8-man dungeon wouldn't suddenly make them want to put long cutscenes in it.

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As far as it relates, that's TWO they've done it to. And they've only been TWO dungeons both related to MSQ, and had no loot in them. So we're 2/2 so far.

To re-iterate, as some of you seem to not bother reading through the forum, I'll re-post it every time someone comes in and doesnt bother to read the forums through its whole (cause lazy people).

4 man dungeons is set as is. They also have loot in them.
8 Man trials/extreme content are loot-able. So this is out of the question.
8 man raids also are out since it has loot in them. So also out of the question.
24 man raids for obvious reasons.

As someone stated earlier in the this forum, anything 8 man at that point would be a trial or raid, which we already have. So there'd be no point in this design this late into the game. And squeenix wanting to change the whole "don't fix what isn't broken" mechanic, seems to be what they've been about since 2.0, considering we've been asking for quite a LOT of things in this game, and still haven't bothered to touch those up yet either. I don't even want to begin how trash filled the jobs skills and rotations are in this game after heavensward (where pld and drk are piss poor) leading into stormblood. All these things come back to the only thing possible, which is 8 man MSQ, which they've already stated in past interviews they will not do again due to feedback during 2.x regarding this narrative. The ONLY place I can SEE this being even remotely possible, is an 8 man Deep dungeon crawler. It doesn't have loot in it, but can expand (with harder challenging floors) to make up for it. But outside of that, I highly doubt they'd input this suggestion in the future.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

No thanks, it's 4 extra people to either babysit, or 4 extra bodies to throw at a super simple boss till it dies.

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Wholeheartedly agree. Already deal with an number of awful players in 4 man content. And 24 man raids or 8 man trials/normal raids. I don't need any more players to add to my blacklist as it is. lmao

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

As far as it relates, that's TWO they've done it to. And they've only been TWO dungeons both related to MSQ, and had no loot in them. So we're 2/2 so far.

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Because 2 is such an ample data set to draw patterns and conclusions from with 100% certainty.

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To re-iterate, as some of you seem to not bother reading through the forum, I'll re-post it every time someone comes in and doesnt bother to read the forums through its whole (cause lazy people).

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You mean you'll just say it over and over and hope it will somehow make your assertions fact.

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4 man dungeons is set as is. They also have loot in them.

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Worthless loot 9/10 that nobody cares about. And that 1/10 is the dungeon that happens to have gear at Ultimate's iLv cap.

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8 Man trials/extreme content are loot-able. So this is out of the question.

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What about the 8 man trials that don't have loot? The 4 man trials that don't have loot? The 4 man trials that do have loot? You're talking as if the amount of people that can go into a type of content determines the kind of loot it can have, when it's very blatant that it doesn't.

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8 man raids also are out since it has loot in them. So also out of the question.

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Back in Coil days, a raid was itself basically an 8 man dungeon, just with a lot more teeth than dungeons at the time (which themselves had more teeth than modern dungeons.)

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24 man raids for obvious reasons.

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Basically 24 man dungeons. But by your logic, 24 people dungeons should have 3x the cutscenes an 8 man dungeon has. For...reasons!

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All these things come back to the only thing possible, which is 8 man MSQ, which they've already stated in past interviews they will not do again due to feedback during 2.x regarding this narrative.

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How...how on earth does any of that relate to back to your assertion "They'll only ever do 8 man MSQ and it must have long unskippable cutscenes!" "It'll have to be a raid/trial" doesn't; "don't fix what ain't broke" doesn't; job rotations sure as hell don't. The only thing that remotely comes close is "Considering we've been asking for a lot of things" and that translates out to "I didn't get what I want, so screw what you want we're sticking to status quo."

As well, find that quote of the devs'. I know it exists, but we don't know if they were talking about the 8 man nature of the dungeon, or having long cutscenes in dungeons.

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The ONLY place I can SEE this being even remotely possible, is an 8 man Deep dungeon crawler. It doesn't have loot in it, but can expand (with harder challenging floors) to make up for it. But outside of that, I highly doubt they'd input this suggestion in the future.

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I also doubt it'd be implemented. As you alluded to earlier, most suggestions don't get implemented. I would still like to see more 8 man dungeons, however; 8 man deep dungeons would be neat, 8 man extreme versions of dungeons would be neat, 8 man savage versions of dungeons...it'd be a neat experiment.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I also doubt it'd be implemented. As you alluded to earlier, most suggestions don't get implemented. I would still like to see more 8 man dungeons, however; 8 man deep dungeons would be neat, 8 man extreme versions of dungeons would be neat, 8 man savage versions of dungeons...it'd be a neat experiment.

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Honestly, if they added the trash back to savage content (for the duty raids) like before, that's about as far as I'm willing to consider the suggestion approved. But even then, the trash really didn't do anything for the savage content (or normal coil at the time) and really just made things slow down for a short while (like 2min extra) with no real added incentive. So it comes right back to square one lol. I'd love to see more and more changes to the game, enough that I don't feel like I'm only doing the same dungeons over and over with different re-skins, and an 8 man (while I'm honestly not sure I'd ever seen another one really), more content or different ways to do content would seem more plausible to consider in the future. I've been around the block since 1.0, and while I'm still here, it doesn't mean I'm totally enjoying the game. I still have my fair share of gripes that should expand, but seeing the amount of ideas (leading back into XI's endgame), we won't see much of those type of ideas due to how fast the turnout or turnover is with gear, which just adds on more stock piles in the end (cause glamour is the true endgame. not the hardcore stuff).

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

As far as it relates, that's TWO they've done it to. And they've only been TWO dungeons both related to MSQ, and had no loot in them. So we're 2/2 so far.

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Are they not both 2.0 dungeons? If they are, then they're released together without having player feedback, so I would count that as 1 time unless they were released separately or they were in 1.0 previously.

Well then I guess more 8 man dungeon won't work because the current playerbase is stuck on some world of warcraft gaming mentality sadly. 4 man dungeons are ok I guess but they get boring really quick.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

4 man dungeons used to have long cutscenes during them--Toto Rak took a while introducing its final boss as an example.

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More exactly, the cutscene is not introducing the dungeon boss, but Lahabrea - from memory, our character's first real meeting with him. He sets the banemite on us in the last few seconds of the cutscene.

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Originally Posted by linay

To be fair, there's rarely anything worth it in those out-of-the-way chests.

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Actually, there is. It tends to be where they put the specialised crafting materials - things like Seagrot Water from Sastasha, Fine Wax from Haukke Manor (good luck getting into that side room if your party didn't kill the toadstools), seedlings from Toto-Rak and Aurum Vale, relic-base items and high-end crafting materials in the ARR endgame dungeons like Amdapor Keep and the Wanderer's Palace.

Generally there's only a chance of getting the good item, otherwise you just get potions and most likely conclude the chest isn't worth the effort next time.

As much as I want this to be a thing, I know the queue times will be horrible!! Twice as bad as with a 4-man dungeon, in fact! If they could figure out a way for queues not to be so long, or allow CHOCOBOS into dungeons or something, I'd be all for it!

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Actually, there is. It tends to be where they put the specialised crafting materials - things like Seagrot Water from Sastasha, Fine Wax from Haukke Manor (good luck getting into that side room if your party didn't kill the toadstools), seedlings from Toto-Rak and Aurum Vale, relic-base items and high-end crafting materials in the ARR endgame dungeons like Amdapor Keep and the Wanderer's Palace.

Generally there's only a chance of getting the good item, otherwise you just get potions and most likely conclude the chest isn't worth the effort next time.

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Crafting items...that are not guaranteed loot...I think I'll stand by my assessment, lol. They can be worth it, of course, but not for the general dungeon goers just trying to clear or leveling. That doesn't mean they won't go for it if you ask them.

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Originally Posted by linay

Crafting items...that are not guaranteed loot...I think I'll stand by my assessment, lol. They can be worth it, of course, but not for the general dungeon goers just trying to clear or leveling. That doesn't mean they won't go for it if you ask them.

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The thing is, it's the only way to get those items, so a number of crafts (mostly housing) are reliant on people getting those chests.

It's also dependent on where you are in the game of course. My newbie rogue just made 60,000 gil (a fair chunk of his current savings) from selling one chest-worth of Fine Wax because I could use Hide to sneak past the toadstools and open the storeroom lock before they got me.

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Originally Posted by Veliaire

As much as I want this to be a thing, I know the queue times will be horrible!! Twice as bad as with a 4-man dungeon, in fact! If they could figure out a way for queues not to be so long, or allow CHOCOBOS into dungeons or something, I'd be all for it!

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I think it is possible if done right and there is some thoughtprocess behind it.