I would like to show my support for the Devs and the gender-lock of the new races.

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Originally Posted by Angelitus

Well too bad for you that now they're asking for feedback and reconsidering their mistake about being sexist

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Really wish people would stop calling them sexist. Its complete and utter nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Wynn_Storm

Really wish people would stop calling them sexist. Its complete and utter nonsense.

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I'm inclined to agree. While it's unfortunate that we don't currently have them in game, I see no reason to accuse the developers of sexism. That's just escalating the topic much further than it needs to go.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

You're not in any place to tell them what they want either though.

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Where did I imply that I was? I'm simply stating the obvious. We got 2 races and 2 genders, so what's the problem?

Doesn't matter though. Enough people are going to whine and complain and moan and they'll end up being added sooner or later. For all of the 15 people who wanted to play male Viera.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Where did I imply that I was? I'm simply stating the obvious. We got 2 races and 2 genders, so what's the problem?

Doesn't matter though. Enough people are going to whine and complain and moan and they'll end up being added sooner or later. For all of the 15 people who wanted to play male Viera.

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15 people? You must have sight or reading problems if you're missing the topic with over 1300 likes and 130 pages of post on male Viera alone.

While I'm not a fan of the decision they made, I understand why they made it and I accept it. (Albeit I still don't lose hope that male Viera might appear in a future expansion, haha).
I think people have gone a bit far with their rage.

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Originally Posted by Mael-bess

15 people? You must have sight or reading problems if you're missing the topic with over 1300 likes and 130 pages of post on male Viera alone.

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No, he has troll/special snowflake problems. If he's ok with a situation, then how DARE anybody else complain! Typical self-centred person.

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Originally Posted by Mael-bess

15 people? You must have sight or reading problems if you're missing the topic with over 1300 likes and 130 pages of post on male Viera alone.

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Just because someone supports a post doesn't mean they themselves are going to change to that particular race.

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Originally Posted by manickitty

No, he has troll/special snowflake problems. If he's ok with a situation, then how DARE anybody else complain! Typical self-centred person.

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BAHAHAHAHAHA. Typical response from someone unable to formulate a substantive argument.

I'm self-centered because I don't have a problem with the developer's design choice?

I'm self-centered because I am not demanding the developers cater to my specific wants?

It's OK, you can take a look in the mirror.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Just because someone supports a post doesn't mean they themselves are going to change to that particular race.



BAHAHAHAHAHA. Typical response from someone unable to formulate a substantive argument.

I'm self-centered because I don't have a problem with the developer's design choice?

I'm self-centered because I am not demanding the developers cater to my specific wants?

It's OK, you can take a look in the mirror.

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Ok, I’ll bite, mr troll. You are selfish because you want others’ feedback to be quashed. You are absolutely inconsiderate. You also have no idea what actual argumentation is and it’s rather sad, but typical of internet trolls. All you can do is bloviate with strawmen and rhetorical questions, indicating an inability to actually formulate an argument. But then again, projection is Troll 101, so you’re familiar with that.

In short, you’re toxic but then I suppose the internet is full of your kind and this is no exception. The whole “Bahahhahaha look at my faux bravado” thing is tired and pathetic, as are your antics.

Respond with your usual troll antics, I shan’t bother to respond, it’s not worth my time reading, and I’ve seen it all before anyway. It’s usually something like “omg you refuse to engage my troll behaviour so I WIN!” The sad thing is you see things in such a binary fashion, winning or losing. The day you mature and actually see beyond the end of your nose is the day that you might be worth paying attention to. But I doubt that day will come anytime soon. Enjoy your “last word”, I suppose you get some sort of fulfilment out of that.

On a more positive note, I have noticed far less trolls on this place than usual, and I’ve delved deep into reddit and other places.

Edit: I found the ignore function! Thank goodness.

I actually think this is the*BEST*scenario we could have had, and I’ll explain why:

*

Adding races is extremely taxing on the dev team, I’m not going to explain why that is again, but it is and that’s a fact.

If we had only got Viera, male and female, then there’s almost no chance we would ever get another race, so we’d never get Hrothgar.

The same vis versa, they could have just given us Hrothgar…

However, by giving us one of each, they’ve not only given us greater variety between them now, but kindled a greater and more valid demand for their gender counterparts, making it more likely that they’ll be inclined to push their resources to make them happen at some point down the line.

*

In an effort to try and please more people with what they thought was their ‘last race’, they’ve actually put themselves in a position where they’re more likely to cave to demands to unlock the other genders.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I actually think this is the*BEST*scenario we could have had, and I’ll explain why:

*

Adding races is extremely taxing on the dev team, I’m not going to explain why that is again, but it is and that’s a fact.

If we had only got Viera, male and female, then there’s almost no chance we would ever get another race, so we’d never get Hrothgar.

The same vis versa, they could have just given us Hrothgar…

However, by giving us one of each, they’ve not only given us greater variety between them now, but kindled a greater and more valid demand for their gender counterparts, making it more likely that they’ll be inclined to push their resources to make them happen at some point down the line.

*

In an effort to try and please more people with what they thought was their ‘last race’, they’ve actually put themselves in a position where they’re more likely to cave to demands to unlock the other genders.

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This may be true, but that then requires there to be backlash in order to force the genders. So here we are, I guess.

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Originally Posted by manickitty

You are selfish because you want others’ feedback to be quashed.

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Not really. I disagreed with the notion that developmental resources played a part in their decision, due to the fact they did obviously have enough resources for 2 genders of a different race. I disagreed with the notion that Lore is irrelevant in their decision making process, it very obviously is intrinsic to their whole story creation process, without which what would we even be playing? I simply pointed out the hypocrisy of these opinions.

What you are attempting to describe is some authoritarian notion that no one else should be able to give feedback if it doesn't align with the facts as presented, or much less of my own opinion. Yet you yourself are displaying such authoritarianism as a result - "How DARE he make a statement based in facts, TROLL! Don't listen to him!"

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You are absolutely inconsiderate. You also have no idea what actual argumentation is and it’s rather sad, but typical of internet trolls. All you can do is bloviate with strawmen and rhetorical questions, indicating an inability to actually formulate an argument. But then again, projection is Troll 101, so you’re familiar with that.

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I think we can let the text speak for itself.

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In short, you’re toxic but then I suppose the internet is full of your kind and this is no exception. The whole “Bahahhahaha look at my faux bravado” thing is tired and pathetic, as are your antics.

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In short, you still haven't enunciated any reasonable retort to my statements. Just whatever strawman your imagination could create of my possible personality or beliefs.

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Respond with your usual troll antics, I shan’t bother to respond, it’s not worth my time reading, and I’ve seen it all before anyway. It’s usually something like “omg you refuse to engage my troll behaviour so I WIN!” The sad thing is you see things in such a binary fashion, winning or losing. The day you mature and actually see beyond the end of your nose is the day that you might be worth paying attention to. But I doubt that day will come anytime soon. Enjoy your “last word”, I suppose you get some sort of fulfilment out of that.

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Again, backing out of the conversation because you know you don't have any logical argument to stand on.

Regardless of gender-lock (honestly, female Ronso does sound cool), I do agree that we could pool more resources into the rest of the expansion so we don't end up with boring endgame content.

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Originally Posted by Angelitus

Well too bad for you that now they're asking for feedback and reconsidering their mistake about being sexist

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SEXIST? LOOOOL

My only issue with Whiskey's viewpoints is that he thinks only 15 people actually wanna be a male Viera. :v He's entitled to everything else he says, we all have different priorities when it comes to stuff like this, but that line of thinking is just ludicrous to me. We've got thousands (tens of thousands?) of catboys running around all over the place and he thinks only 15 people would actually want to be a male viera?

Isn't Miqote the most played male race in the game after Hyur? Not saying every single one of them would want to fantasia, but it shows there is already tons of interest in a race like that. Stands to reason that Male Viera would be just as popular.

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Originally Posted by Vomitbelch

I, for one, am super stoked that we get a real, beast-looking race (Hrothgar) as the other "beast races" have basically been: generic human with cat ears/tail or other generic human with horns/minor scales/tail.

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But too bad for the ladies that want the beast race, right?

I just think the races will feel incomplete until they have their gender counterparts; especially after the lore for Viera males was written in the Ivalice Alliance raid, and Ronso, the inspiration for the Hrothgar's design, already have female designs established from FFX. I'm glad we got variety in terms of our racial selection this time around, but it doesn't change the fact that the races feel half baked because we're only going to get half of 2 instead of 1 complete race. Their decisions aren't above criticism just because they worked hard on it.

Soooo, for those of us who have voiced our complaints in a reasonable and polite manner (and there have been plenty, but sure, let's keep ignoring that), do our opinions just not count now ooooor...? If we're gonna start ignoring entire demographics of the community as a whole based on a few bad apples, then there would literally be no one left to listen to at this point.

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Originally Posted by Vomitbelch

I respect their decision and I wouldn't want to add more strain on the dev team to painstakingly make the other genders and possibly have to reconsider NPC storylines and everything else that goes along with it. So far I've mainly seen people upset about male Viera anyways. After the behavior of the community I hope you (the devs) stick to your guns and keep what you've already made. Don't reward bad behavior and make more work for yourselves.

I, for one, am super stoked that we get a real, beast-looking race (Hrothgar) as the other "beast races" have basically been: generic human with cat ears/tail or other generic human with horns/minor scales/tail.

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I think it is so awesome that they added Hrothgar. Freakin Lionboys man!? That is so damn cool! And I am very much looking forward to running around in duties with those who choose this race. I support the devs 100%, and I am just fine that I am in the small camp that did not even want male Viera in the game in the first place. It wasn't enough that the demand for bunny outfits for males was so ridiculous that SE basically said, "HERE. NOW STFU!" I've just grown so tired of the gender lock arguments and the demands for these restrictions to be non-existent. I mean, if you're just going to fem out your bunnyboy, which we all know most were going to do anyway, then just choose female. But you know.... more options...even though there are now two more. Not good enough though. Not for NA. Never is.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I mean, if you're just going to fem out your bunnyboy, which we all know most were going to do anyway, then just choose female.

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I'll be sure to tell every female character I see wearing pants to just fantasia to male from now on.

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Originally Posted by Oce

I'll be sure to tell every female character I see wearing pants to just fantasia to male from now on.

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Right. Because females wearing pants are totally pushing an "equality" agenda. Try not to pass out. That's a lot of breath you're going to be spending.

I think it came down to:

1. We already know what female Viera are like and that's what people wanted. Male Viera have never been seen before and people were bound to disagree, no matter how they were implemented, people were going to be disappointed.
2. It's easier to add two races now and then add the genders later.
3. It honors the existing Viera lore better.

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Originally Posted by Poisonous

3. It honors the existing Viera lore better.

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Does it though? The actual lore in regards to male Viera makes leaving their traditional role more attractive than it would be for a female Viera, and female Viera also have the strict social taboo of "Don't leave the forest ever" but they're being given the "Some people rebel against their culture" reasoning. Sure there's also the 1/8 lore on the birth rate, but that's essentially the case with the catboys right?

I get the time constraints but the "respect the lore" argument is terrible, the lore isn't good enough to support it, it wasn't in ivalice either but ivalice was a single player game where the Viera had a specific role to fill in the story, the role of being a playable race for the main character of an MMO is way different and needs a far better lore reasoning if lore is a reason.

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Originally Posted by Sclair0

Does it though? The actual lore in regards to male Viera makes leaving their traditional role more attractive than it would be for a female Viera, and female Viera also have the strict social taboo of "Don't leave the forest ever" but they're being given the "Some people rebel against their culture" reasoning. Sure there's also the 1/8 lore on the birth rate, but that's essentially the case with the catboys right?

I get the time constraints but the "respect the lore" argument is terrible, the lore isn't good enough to support it, it wasn't in ivalice either but ivalice was a single player game where the Viera had a specific role to fill in the story, the role if being a playable race for the main character of an MMO is way different and needs a far better lore reasoning if lore is a reason.

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Female Viera are the only ones known to rebel against that social structure afaik.

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Originally Posted by Poisonous

Female Viera are the only ones known to rebel against that social structure afaik.

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But rebelling against a social structure isn't a racial trait... Viera that do that are an extreme minority. So if we're respecting the lore then there should be zero playable Viera. (and Au Ra for that matter since leaving the areas their culture inhabit is also a major taboo)

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Originally Posted by Poisonous

...
3. It honors the existing Viera lore better.

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pity it also breaks ronso lore.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Right. Because females wearing pants are totally pushing an "equality" agenda. Try not to pass out. That's a lot of breath you're going to be spending.

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It was in the 1800's, actually. That's sort of how progress happens, you know. I also really like the scare quotes around equality, as if equal rights are somehow a bad thing.

I support their decision right now because I think they made the best available choice. Time constraints made for tough decisions and YoshiP tried to do what would please the majority of players. Folks had been clamoring for Viera for a long time as well as a beast like race. So they did what they could to allow the most choices at the point in time.

They have never said they would not create the other genders later, but this expansion seems like it is massive as far as development. I think they never intended any disrespect to anyone, but quite the opposite. They were trying to please the most players. I do not understand why everyone is so upset. I wanted a new healer, but I understand their reasoning and know they will do a new one next time around. So it is very likely that is what will happen with the other genders. They can only do as much as they can.

How many people would be happy if the choice had been only male and female Hrothgar? Viera fans would be outraged after seeing Fran. A choice had to be made at this point in time and it seems like they made the best possible choice to appeal to the most players. Everyone can try out each race and see if you will enjoy it at least.

Patience is a virtue as is empathy. We can demand this or that, but at the end of the day sometimes there is only enough time and manpower for so much. It looks like an amazing story and a tremendous amount of content. I am happy and grateful for what they have tried to do and I am sure they will listen and do their best to create the other genders next round.

Honestly, the whole situation makes me think of these wise words.

https://i.gyazo.com/8acdbac677c3cc08...26aa715f36.gif

Personally really wished they had gone hard on either Viera or Hrothgar, instead of trying for a shaky middleground. but that's just me.

I'm happy their open to feedback at the very least, and with any luck they can fix their workflow to a point where the other genders will be possible for 6.0 or sooner.

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Originally Posted by Angelitus

Well too bad for you that now they're asking for feedback and reconsidering their mistake about being sexist

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Öööööhm, if they are sexiest... why did they ad male Miqo'te and female Roegadyn *if i remember right female Highlander aswell ?* in 2.0 ?
And if they are so bad People.. why did you play their Game ?

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Originally Posted by manickitty

No, he has troll/special snowflake problems. If he's ok with a situation, then how DARE anybody else complain! Typical self-centred person.

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Could be said to others as well. If you want something to be changed, then how dare SE to not change it.

You can all ask for changes, but SE should not be forced to do anything just because you want it. In the end, the decision still lies with SE.

Isn't there already a thread that's related to supporting male Viera? Perhaps those in favor should go there and let those who enjoy things how they currently are stay here.

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Originally Posted by LittleChickenNugget

Isn't there already a thread that's related to supporting male Viera? Perhaps those in favor should go there and let those who enjoy things how they currently are stay here.

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NO !!! because the things have to go like they want, they need to make their point wherever they can, YOU have to accept their opinion and they need to say their opinion as often as they can until you surrender to their will... sounds a bit over the top, but thats what its sometimes looks like.

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Originally Posted by LittleChickenNugget

Isn't there already a thread that's related to supporting male Viera? Perhaps those in favor should go there and let those who enjoy things how they currently are stay here.

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Sooo...an echochamber then?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Right. Because females wearing pants are totally pushing an "equality" agenda. Try not to pass out. That's a lot of breath you're going to be spending.

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You say that like equality is a bad thing though. What is wrong with people wanting equal options with the new races? You might not care about male viera personally but others do. Telling them to just play as a female viera instead is just being callous about it. And putting the male viera aside, the genderlocks cause issues with hrothgar as well. Female ronso were a thing in FF X. They weren't even rare. You could get them on your blitzball team... it makes absolutely no sense for them to be genderlocked in XIV.

Shouldn't you be out trying to make gay eternal bondings illegal in Eorzea or something? :v If you're going to try and be the conservative voice of reason for XIV you've got a lot of work cut out for you. There's a lot of equality to try and get reversed.

i don't harbor any ill will towards yoship or any of the development staff. only minor irritation and confusion

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Originally Posted by Valor_C

NO !!! because the things have to go like they want, they need to make their point wherever they can, YOU have to accept their opinion and they need to say their opinion as often as they can until you surrender to their will... sounds a bit over the top, but thats what its sometimes looks like.

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An open forum is just that, an open forum. Echo chambers have no place in them, if you post a thread and as long as the poster remains within scope of the topic they have every right to share their thoughts and views, even if it's against the idea of that topic.

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Originally Posted by Vomitbelch

I respect their decision and I wouldn't want to add more strain on the dev team to painstakingly make the other genders and possibly have to reconsider NPC storylines and everything else that goes along with it. So far I've mainly seen people upset about male Viera anyways. After the behavior of the community I hope you (the devs) stick to your guns and keep what you've already made. Don't reward bad behavior and make more work for yourselves.

I, for one, am super stoked that we get a real, beast-looking race (Hrothgar) as the other "beast races" have basically been: generic human with cat ears/tail or other generic human with horns/minor scales/tail.

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honestly i thank you good sir to let the people that share the same opinion than you to have a place for talk of it... even if our opinion differ, i prefer that we have a civil debate about this situation and let everyone opinion been heard that censore or be uncivil with people with different opinion.

100% support the devs decision even if they keep it this way. Screw the fake outrage and SJW cry-bullying.

DEVs, Don't acknowledge them. Even giving in will make it worse. Look at any person or company that apologize for a twitter comment that someone took offense to (and someone always does) and cried Sexist, Racist, bigot, etc. It makes it much worse. Ignore and it goes away faster than you'd ever believe. Like that crazy guy walking down the street yelling at himself. It doesn't matter what you say, but if you acknowledged him at all you will regret it. Cry-bullies are even worse.

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Originally Posted by Sclair0

I dunno if I would in every case. Though if we're going with one gender only races the Qu would be awesome!

Currently the number of players playing male Miqote actively is more than double the number of players playing the entire Roe race. This clearly shows more demand for humans with animal ears than buff races. Male Au Ra, the most beastial race/gender combo at the moment has just over half the number of male Miqote players.

Even if it weren't Viera which has decades long history, and say some other generic human with animal ears race, if more people would enjoy playing it than a seperate mono-gender race, then even if its boring lore wise it's the right decision to me.

That all said I'm not unhappy with Hrothgar, they look awesome. I just am not optimistic about the number of people who will play them.

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I just wanted to clear up some stats here. Gonna use my post from the Mr. Happy Thread ...

"People who play males in this game have shown to be far more open and willing to playing characters that differ from the default human body. As of now the males from all the races are played far far more evenly than females. Yes, the most popular male race is Human and they're played 4 times more often than Roebros. But the most played female race (Cats) out number the least played Female race (Femroes) 17 times over. Hell, Roebros are played more than the 2 least played female races (Elezen and Femroe) and aren't that far from being played more than those 2 combined. Against other males the Roebros are only out numbered by the next lowest (Elezen) by 4k.


Like the Scaly Bois this beastly race is being added to fill a large void. I can easily see people who settled on Cat Bois but want to be more beefy and anthropomorphic converting. I already see people on my FF14 FB group saying they're leaving their Cat Bois to become Panther Men. I can see people who want to be werewolves converting for the wolf head they talked about. I can see people who want a race that's taller and more fit than the current 2 converting.

Personally I think they're gonna land between Roebros and Scaly Bois in popularity. "

So yeah, the thing is that Roebros arnt's really the be all end all of "Buff big race". They have very long arms, short legs and a "rectangle of meat" as a general body shape. So there's more than enough room for a tall race with a more appealing body shape.

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Originally Posted by CaptnYesterday

100% support the devs decision even if they keep it this way. Screw the fake outrage and SJW cry-bullying.

DEVs, Don't acknowledge them. Even giving in will make it worse. Look at any person or company that apologize for a twitter comment that someone took offense to (and someone always does) and cried Sexist, Racist, bigot, etc. It makes it much worse. Ignore and it goes away faster than you'd ever believe. Like that crazy guy walking down the street yelling at himself. It doesn't matter what you say, but if you acknowledged him at all you will regret it. Cry-bullies are even worse.

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Again, what about the people asking in a civil manner though? We just gonna keep ignoring them to continue on with this narrative some of you keep throwing around? O-oh we are? Rad.

i want to add something about the fact that a lot of person play cat people... i'm an old player of FF11 i was playing mithra there, then when FF14 did come out (2009) i did choose miqo'te, sadly at this time it was not possible to create male.... then did play miqo'te female...when ARR did come out, they did offer to old player the capacity to change race and gender, the trouble is when i did create my character i did choose a female name. then i wasn't able to play miqo'te male... i did play for a time au ra female, but did come back to miqo'te because the horn was making most of my helmet color weird because of the white horn.
then i did come back to miqo'te female.

do i will change to viera... probably not, who know.... but i don't plan to purchase a name change for try another gender... and i think i'm not the only one in this situation.