Just go fight Ifrit and switch to a level 1 class right before Hellfire lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Peptaru
Akatsuki?
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03-21-2012, 11:31 AMLucidus
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03-21-2012, 11:37 AMAndrien
Primal vs Primal in PvP. Oh my goodness
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03-21-2012, 12:08 PMRydinBreak Damage Limit FTW!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peptaru
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03-21-2012, 12:14 PMPeptaru
One of my most memorable FF moments is when i broke the limit in VIII with Angel Wing. I'll never forget it!
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03-21-2012, 03:24 PMNexxus*Hey guys, there's a lot of noob in their party LOL !!! we're gonna win so easily xD*Quote:
I want to summon a Primal in PvP, this would be an epic win. Muahahaha!
*OMG they summon Bahamut we're gonna lose !!!!*
Would love too see that ! :D -
03-21-2012, 05:36 PMRokienPretty much nothing we already didn't knowQuote:
Originally Posted by Rukkirii
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03-21-2012, 07:20 PMFelisfixed it a bitQuote:
Originally Posted by Rokien
Some people here didn't know it. -
03-21-2012, 08:20 PMMatsume
This was a pleasent surprise
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03-22-2012, 01:27 AMRokienNot my fault people don't read or look around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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03-22-2012, 01:32 AMOnidemon
It's quite Simple, They will probably put up a cap in regards to how many cards a free company can hold, my guess is probably just one. Also, they will probably set a timer on the cards where if it is not used after X amount of time, the primal breaks free from your control and you lose the card.
If they don't add these rules then it will be quite stupid because one day a bunch of trolls will decide to keep their cards for months just to mess with people.
EDIT: Another cool idea would be stealing cards from free companies. They could make it possible through PVP where when a free company that hold a card is defeated by another free company then they lose that card. Which i know won't happen if that company doesn't do any PVP unless they are forced to somehow but they can also come up with different ways of giving you the option of snatching cards from companies that hold them, ways that may not involve PVP that is. -
03-22-2012, 01:50 AMMolly_MillionsLook up. It's time basedQuote:
Originally Posted by Onidemon
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03-22-2012, 03:15 AMKyri
I would prefer summoner class then this system to be honest. I see many other old summoners like myself who really feel the game needs this and want it back bad. Even if the three pet classes wern't always optimized or used in parties, those who loved them and played them were deeply devoted to these classes.
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03-22-2012, 03:30 AMAkujin
I'm honestly really ok with this idea. It prevents people from creating a monoply over the Primals. Although we dont know a great deal about how the Free Companies themselves are meant to work, there may be a way to sort of exploit that too.
But doing the Primals this way should allow them to keep the summoning and usage to grand, epic scale things. Personally..I want to see a truly massive, castle-esque Alexander that blocks out the sun to obliterate something with divine judgment.
Though I'm curious, is it possible for a Dev to talk to someone and get us a possibly teaser, if not a full, maybe a handful of Primals they intend to release? Just for teaser sakes. -
03-22-2012, 03:34 AMAreeyaJaidee100% Agreed. This primal summoning is stupid as ****! You mean we can only summon Primals when our Free Company leader decides? WTF?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyri
Screw that. Wtf is a SMN now? Looks like This is forcing SMN to be a gimped healer/buffer again, only this time they dont get the reach around of summoning an awesome Main summon like Ifrit!
This is complete BS. Is this really what you ppl want? FFs didn't restrict summoning this much: why start now?
I understand limitations like MP perpetuations costs or only having one primal out at a time: but you guys really wanna screw SMN like this?
WTF is the point of being a SMN now?
Are all the petjobs getting ****ed like this?!
Is BST going to only Charm one pet once every week via a job ability that has to be unlocked via a FC ldr?!
Is Puppetmaster limited to using its puppet for 12 seconds only after the FC ldr authorizes it to be called out?!
Are you ppl ****ing kidding me?!
This is asanine! -
03-22-2012, 03:55 AMMolly_MillionsPrimal summons, and the summoner class will not necessarily be related. I don't see a problem with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee
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03-22-2012, 03:55 AMUmJammerSully
This is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard for this game. Having primal summoning so restrictive does nothing but extend the e-peens of a very small number of people. :/
I love the idea of having cool, sharable rewards earnt by linkshells/companies, but having all the recognisable summons like Ifrit and Shiva be limited to one company per server is just a really bad idea.
*shudders*Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi
Fortunatly I think the devs are at least smart enough to make something like that impossible. -
03-22-2012, 04:05 AMAreeyaJaideeOf course you don't see a problem with it. Why? Because you don't know HOW or IF they're related.Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
Ask yourself: What is "Summoner" going to "Summon"?
Lesser spirits?
What's the point?
All this because SE is taking the easy way of avoiding implementation of a proper magic based petjob.
This is what we get when players bitch about "ruined immersion".
You're playing a ****ing videogame! You're a third party "interacting" with a simulated environment and you seriously bitch about SMNs running around with Primal pet miniatures as a "immersion ruining graphic/mechanic"?!
WTF. You know what: I hope that SE makes Ninja have shit accuracy and no dual wield or ranged ammo. No blink tanking and crappy weaponskills that require full TP every use.
Then we will see people feel the type of aggravation that petjob lovers are feeling.
This is stupid. I can't even describe how stupid this is.
Stop being lazy SE. Make proper petjobs. -
03-22-2012, 04:11 AMMolly_Millionsfrom what I understand, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee
to have a magic based pet job. it's a little too early to say the implementation is bad before SE has even started work on the class.Quote:
Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee
I'm not even sure what to say about this part. it seems you just want to complain.Quote:
Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee
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03-22-2012, 04:24 AMAkujin
Well, they could in effect allow Summoners to call on a far lesser version of the Primals themselves. Basically the same thing that happened in XI, you didnt actually call the Gods themselves, only their Avatar's, a projection of their true might. Essentially they could do the same thing and allow the FC's to call on the actual Gods themselves (though to be fair to something like that, if the true self was called it should interrupt every lesser summoning completely.)
As Yoshida said, he doesnt want to see 20 mini-ifrits on the screen all moving around, it diminishes the grandeur of what the summons are. To create a truly FF effect for the Eikons, you have to do something BIG to get the full scale.
Otherwise, you're asking them to diminish the Primals into something you can basically carry in your pocket and diminish the scale of its overall potential greatly.
Unless my memory is wrong, XI is the only FF game in the entire series where the Primal/Eidilion/whatever were 'pets', kept on a perptual mp draining leash until they're no longer useful. In every other FF game they're called, they blow shit up, they disappear.
Ok.. what if Summoners do something different, lets say instead of summoning..they channel? Summoners become a medium for the Primals power, their sub classes being thm and cnj, so they can access both sides of the elemental spectrum, with water being their own native spells. With whichever Primal they're 'channeling' they are granted an increase potency to that type of elemental magic. So ie. Ifrit = Fire, Ramuh = Lightning, etc. With the 15min big skill being some sort of 'Mini Hellfire' or 'Mini Tidalwave', etc that's centered from the Summoner themselves, severing their ties to that Primal temporarily. -
03-22-2012, 04:29 AMAreeyaJaidee
Sure. I'm labeled a complainer because the mere suggestive cause and effect of this is askew compared to what logically fits the expectations of those who know and love this particular aspect of the FF series.
Well of course I'm complaining. With every right to do so. Since when us there shame in that?
I play petjobs. Many ppl do and are looking forward to ffxiv having legit petjobs.
Just because some ppl are impartial to that, doesnt mean im not going to complain.
Theres truth in what i wrote.
Developers are notorious about ruining petjob mechanics. So if i want to complain about that then i damn well will.
Plenty of ppl getting their damn tanking fun, mage fun, and DD fun and they all complain until its balanced. But i cant complain at SE about not releasing petjob info or potentially ruining an idolized aspect of what many found enjoyable about SMN?
Yet if someone bitches about tanks or mages or dd or Ninja they usually get balance and few of the community bat an eyelash because they agree.
Even if im a minority im going to be a damn loud one until light is shed on this matter.
If you dont like it then blacklist me. I wont lose sleep over it. -
03-22-2012, 04:33 AMMolly_MillionsYou're complaining about something we don't know anything about. Primal summons won't be the same as summons from the summoner class, that doesn't mean the summoner class is ruined.Quote:
Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee
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03-22-2012, 04:34 AMAkujin
My only thought in all of that though, the pet job thing... do you realy feel that Primals can be justified in becoming a leashed pet? Doesnt that annoy you, to think that you're diminishing this grand God like creature into a little pokemon sort of sidekick? If you truly love the grandeur and power of the Primals, in whatever game or fashion they come from (XI excluded in this obviously) then you shouldn't want them to bring the Primals down in such a way.
Instead, encourage them to find a way to make calling on the Elementals themselves (which, you know if you read any of the gridania stuff, or white mage quests...the elementals are Not weak, they destroyed an entire age. I mean, come on really. They literally changed an entire AGE. My burst sucks compared to that. lol) but anyways, encourage SE to make the Elementals themselves more meaningful and badass, think GW2..I think its GW2, where the Elemental spirit gradually becomes bigger and thus more powerful as its level increases, until its finally this massive beast of power.
And allow them to keep the Gods themselves something big and epic and worthy of their name. -
03-22-2012, 04:39 AMRydin
In this interview
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/2011/10...-is-out-there/
YoshiP says there will be a taming like a beastmaster, buddy system with chocobos fighting along side, Summoner's and then the Free company Primal summonsQuote:
Actually it was kind of all put into one thing on that document but there are three different ways to think about this. There’s a buddy system for a companion and then you have a pet system and then the summons. The beast pet would be kind of like in FFXI, where you tame it, use it and then it’s done. So there is no growth with the pet. With Summoner, what we’re thinking of is maybe when you summon for example like Carbuncle… that’s not saying that Carbuncle is coming. It’s just an example! But when you summon it at maybe level 20 there will be certain abilities that it can use and then when the Summoner is level 50, that list will be extended with level 50 abilities. Carbuncle won’t change, it will just be the abilities that it can use. Then you get the buddy system which will be with your Chocobo and your Chocobo will be yours forever. It will have a level and it will power up and grow as you feed it and use it. So yeah there are those three systems. So the confusion there where pets can level up, that’s currently not the case. They’re just a one time thing. It’s Chocobos that will have the levels.
So like Ifrit would be a free company summon but something like Carbuncle would be from the Summoner class/job
Also this from http://forum.finalfantasy14.eu/viewt...hp?f=20&t=1993
Thats what Molly is saying... they're going to be separate entities...Quote:
You will be able to summon them after 2.0 but with this ff14 we are considering these traditional primals such as ifrit and leviathan like a god. So I want to separate the traditional summoning system from these new primals. You will be able to summon 1 primal per 1 world, such as 1 ifrit for 1 world. So there will be ifrit, garuda, and so on but only 1 each. So with this new system Im planning to implement, the free companies who have defeated the primal have the ability to summon them. In the previous series, someone could summon Ifrit as well as other people could summon Ifrit. So there would be serval ifrits in one world but I don’t want it to be like that, so people will have to fight each other to have the ability to summon ifrit.
If summons are not considered primals, they will be more common and more people will be able to summon them. We will add the summoner class which can summon carbuncle but theyre different from primals. So primals can only be summons by free companies.
Free company summons doesn't mean there wont be a summoner class/job -
03-22-2012, 04:42 AMMyrrdraalYou do realize you're complaining to what amounts to scribbling on some whiteboard in a japanese meeting room, right? There really isnt much content designed yet. I played a maxed out smn in FFXI so I know how bad their pet jobs were implemented on a intimate level. It's still possible to have primal summons and summoners at the same time. As in FFXI, you didn't summon the prime, you summoned its avatar. Save your whining for when they actually have information regarding the job, otherwise you just look kind of sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee
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03-22-2012, 04:43 AMAreeyaJaidee
@ Akujin
Yes FFXI was the only FF MMO to allow you to summon avatars.
- every other FF SMN was a pty member that could call those Summons: sometimes it was a charge up, sometimes it was a one time per battle cast, sometimes it was a multiple cast per battle. This is a MMO just like XI was and ppl loved SMN in
XI. Ppl who had problems with SMN just wanted to see it balanced MP wise so they could partake in pty play more.
Yes avatars were mini versions. My point is when is SE going to tell us thus? They dropped a bomb on SMN lovers with this FC primal restriction BS but they don't have reassurance for ppl who are expecting SMN? That's the issue.
SMN "might" channel Primals to trigger their abilities?
... You mean the Primal that can only be called once per timer IF and HOW the FC ldr deems?... Really? How about the FC decides what abilities every party member can use and when? So SMN would get used every once in awhile for the small duration while the Primal is out? Doesn't this meam the FC ldr is the SMN and the SMN isnt the SMN?...
I guess everyones cool with logic being thrown out the window. -
03-22-2012, 04:55 AMAreeyaJaideeI played SMN in what little End Game existed as well. I know how SMN lore worked so dont patronize me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrrdraal
It doesnt matter if i look sad or not. Idc what a bunch of strangers across unknown distances wrongfully think of me because they're inaccurate judgements based of of zero evidence.
Im fairly aware SMN isn't fleshed out. That's my point: Ppl are waiting to know. Not just me, ppl who play pet jobs.
And no one here can comment on the progress of unknown content: because its unknown.
Your conclusions of me "whining" no reason are therefore also in vain and pure speculation based off of unknown factors.
Hypocrisy much?
Nahh im not sad looking. -
03-22-2012, 05:04 AMAkujin
Honestly, you can make your own arguments justified in your own eyes and logic any way you want. That's the beauty having the right to your own opinion. I'll have to agree with Molly and others when they say.. take a step back, breath, put the lynch rope down and atleast Wait until they make some true offical announcements about what direction they intend to take with things. We know the direction they want to take with the Big Primals, but they haven't really said anything about the.. oh lets see.. well far too many for me to go down the list and count out, but here's a link to a ff wiki, have a look.. I'm sure they could probably incorporate a fair share of similiar creatures to be a pokemon sidekick and still allow the big brothers to have their own stage to play on too.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Summons -
03-22-2012, 05:05 AMRydin
So yea.. the 2 quotes I posted (post #63) are from direct Yoshi-p interviews on officially recognized fan sites...
The details of summons are still speculative... But the general ideology of it is pretty clear....
I don't know why we would argue over it... He says outright that summoners as a class and free company summons will both exist... Free companies will summon primals which are like Gods and summoners will summon the classic final fantasy Aeons that are not considered primal gods -
03-22-2012, 05:12 AMAkujinI suppose what has some people worked up and worried is what does Yoshida consider to be Primal and what does he consider to be Not. I mean, Carbuncle is an easy guess, little glowy skunk..yeah. But the iconic summons, such as shiva, leviathan, titan, alexander..those are the one's that I would consider to all be Primals of their own right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
I'm not sure which of the other creatures I'd consider to be lesser, I'm sure in that list a few could be picked out. I mean, they did basically make Moogles into a Primal battle. They could essentially take mobs we have right now and turn them into a summon. Bomb, Drakes, etc. -
03-22-2012, 05:13 AMAreeyaJaideeWell it is cool if SMN still gets to summon. Just sucks that Ifrit is off-limits as well as Garuda and Titan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
I remember those Primals as "classic" cause they were your basic summons in most every FF.
And im not lynching ppl like a crazed mad person. I just want SE to know without doubt that some of us have been waiting for petjob info for a long time and to be considerate enough to tell us more of their plans.
Its not some top secret russian espionage mission. They could atleast consider the petjob ppl more, just like they're always catering to other aspects of battle n classes. -
03-22-2012, 05:16 AMMolly_MillionsConsidering they are still collecting data to find out what the playerbase really wants, I'd say the info is not available to give to us just yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee
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03-22-2012, 05:20 AMRydinThats true.. it is disappointing if you love summoner and wont get to call Ifrit and Shiva... A little Hellfire and Diamond dust are classics...Quote:
Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee
But think of it like this... Yoshi P wants to make these Primals as powerful and devastating as they are in offline games...
Giving one job that much power could create a lot of imbalance. So to alleviate that, he is devising a system where Summoners and super OP Aeons can coexist.
I don't even know if it will work well or not... none of us will until 2.0
But it kind of makes sense... to give Ifrit to 1 job, you'd either have to gimp him a lot or allow that job to be OP...
Also, perhaps he wants summoner to have a very distinctive role in the party... with a free for all summons type job, they would be DD, healing, support and enfeebling all in one... that kind of all aeons summoner would be even more powerful than Thaum was before 1.17 -
03-22-2012, 05:28 AMAkujin
Hope this doesnt break some obscure TOS agreement I'm not aware of.
But when I said having an elemental that grows in power and size with you, I was thinking of Aion, not GW2. And this screenshot is basically what I'm referring too.
http://static.na.aiononline.com/powe...d5e031d218.jpg
Now personally..that'd be cool. Its not Ifrit, but its still big, its still flaming (oh my!) and it still radiates fierce intensity.
Though I still like my channeling idea. Basically, as a summoner/channeler, you are blessed by each of the Primals and granted the power to call on a fraction of their essence to aid you. You exist one foot in our plane and one foot in theirs to be a medium. It creates a more intimate, God/Primal / Servant/summoner type of effect. And you can continue to call on that Primal's power for enhanced abilities, big Ommph hits. Whereas the FC's have to go back and refight the Primal every-single-time they want to reacquire it. And more than that, they lose privledge if they dont use it within a set time. But thats just my thoughts. I like thinking OUT of the box. -
03-22-2012, 05:34 AMAreeyaJaidee
Well power kinda is the point of SMN in terms of varying utility.
I just hope SE doesn't screw petjobs over.
Every other aspect of this game is QQd over and demanded to be quality.
Petjobs get shafted often: which sucks because they have a lot to offer to party dynamics which means better battle content.
Just want something that works. I loved PUP, BST, and SMN. But out of the three SMN honestly got shafted hard because SE made that stupid perpetuation cost BS.
Thats the type of BS that needs to be avoided.
I'm by no means saying that petjobs should be OP. I agree that bslancing makes sense but not when it forces us to be subpar PUP, BST tanks/DDs or SMN buff/support/damage.
These jobs can still maintain their unique gameplay mechanics without being subjected to social exclusion.
Cause lets be real: the fun party of a job/class is How you play it differently than another.
Thats the fun of it all: seeing all that uniqueness come together in a challenging battle system and feeling accomplished for doing so well as a uniquely skilked team. -
03-22-2012, 05:56 AMRydinWhat I've learned through this game is that the Devs very really see things the way I do... They always find some approach that I hadn't even... wouldn't even... It could be a cultural thing or just many minds coming together...Quote:
Originally Posted by Akujin
But having Big Primals, smaller summons, Chocobo buddies and tamed beasts is actually quite in depth and innovative -
03-22-2012, 05:49 PMAkujin
They're looking to appease the masses and leave no one out. I understand the approach. Big Primals give the companies/linkshells to strive for. Smaller summons and Tamed creatures being class specific approaches, to give an indiviual idenity to things and then the chocobo buddy growing with you and then fighting alongside you, for the novelty effect of having your own personalized chocobo at your side. I like all of the ideas, I wasnt keen on playing SMN in XI, no mage class really got my interest. Whereas here, I've stuck primarily to BLM/THM as my main focus. So I may have to give SMN a try as well. But as I said, honestly as long as they can make something like Alexander, my personal favorite summon, into a truly epic, monstrous scale thing. I'll be happy, even if I cant have a miniture one follow me around lol
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03-23-2012, 01:16 AMRydinI do agree with the sentiment that it would be disappointing if you love the Summoner class/job but never used it to call on Bahamut or TitanQuote:
Originally Posted by Akujin
I definitely see where Yoshi-P is coming from too
Think about this... a summon can't take a long time because fights happen in real time.... but if the entire party is involved and the entire zone is affected by it, you can add some really incredible summon FX that you might not be able to get away with if just one person was summoning
For instance... If you had a summoner in your party and they summoned sometime like "Eden" from FFVIII, there is no way you could do a 3 minute cutscene for everyone to see
But... if an entire party is doing the summon... then maybe not 3 minutes... but a 15 second summon CS isn't out of the question -
03-23-2012, 01:50 AMIveraIvalicei completely agree, i've been waiting for smn since the game came out and its sickening to think that se can ruin what made smn a classic and big part of the ff games. they have always summoned the classic aeons like titan, ifrit, shiva. why would they ruin that now. i dont care if smn's will be able to summon some little thing that i dont care about, its not the same without the classics. and to think that some dragoon or some warrior will be able to summon ifrit while im in the background playing with my fire elemental or whatever they have me summon, is just stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee
i dont care if its on a crazy grand scale, in ffxi it made sense that you were summoning just a part of it and not the actual thing. bring that back! at least it will feel like a ff game for a SUMMONER to summon an aeon.
i thought we were moving away from this "everyone will be able to do everything" kind of gameplay when speciallized jobs came out but i guess not.
if se is gonna crush classic summoner lovers then at least give us some good news and not just drop bombs on us everywhere. all i ever here is summoner wont be able to do this, or that -
03-23-2012, 02:12 AMRydinhurtful much?Quote:
Originally Posted by IveraIvalice
http://marcoleonardi1991.files.wordp...carbuncle1.jpg -
03-23-2012, 03:14 AMAndrienDo you know how many different types of summons exist?Quote:
Originally Posted by IveraIvalice
Primal, Espers, Aeons, Eidolons, Avatars, Guardian Forces.
Primals are the classic godlike summons in FFXIV (Titan, Ifrit, Shiva, etc etc). Lets keep them godlike powerful ya? I don't want them to be nerf down and see like 20 Ifrits on the screen. lol