I wish Gunbreaker would be a DPS class.

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Originally Posted by Rosalynd

Nowhere near the same thing, Nowhere even CLOSE to the same thing.

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You are right. A tank is a tank and a dps is a dps. They have 2 different roles. However, tanks can still dish out decent dps while tanking.

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Originally Posted by Rosalynd

Nowhere near the same thing, Nowhere even CLOSE to the same thing.

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Pretty much the same, but being a tank means you dont die when the air is flowing from window to window, which is like the real warrior should be.

As a DPS main, I'm glad Gunbreaker is a tank class. It'll encourage me to play in that role more. And you know what? I hope that if Dancer is announced, it will be a healer so I can get more practice in that role as well.

It makes sense to me that it'd be a tank. You see a bunch of people coming at you, and one of them is swinging a gunblade around, it's clear who the real threat there is, and you're gonna want to focus on that guy.

Might as well be with that awful af, judge armor never ever.
I was hoping for a more imperial tank, not this Squall/Seifer trash. I absolutely hate how xiv differentiate between the good and bad characters/jobs whatever, they based the job on ff8 so now only the bad npcs will ever get the cool stuffs and we will be stuck with the coats.

cause we dont have enough dps classes already? we already have 9 dps classes (10 if you count blue mage) and only 3 tanks / 3 healers. its about time we get a new tank / healer. next expansion will prolly gonna be dps again. its only fair that the ones who dont main a dps are getting smth this time.

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Originally Posted by Dfess

While I do think we need more tanks, I do wish it was a DPS job and the other planned job/jobs would be a tank instead.

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Im not sure you realize how greedy that sound. Have you counted ALL the DPS you have now and compared it to how many tanks we have?

Go sit in a corner

I don't think the Gunbreaker as a tank really makes sense...


But if a class that's thing previously has been using it's own HP to do damage can be a tank, sense's gone out the window.

A lot of NPCs with gunblades have been pretty threatening and heavily armored. I couldn't picture the Gunbreaker job as anything other than a tank.

I mean, we don't see people complaining that WAR isn't DPS... because we all know it is anyway.

With any luck, Gunbreaker will be to WAR what DRK is to PLD.
A fast, dps heavy tank, maybe a focus on crit, with an ammo resource management system in the same vein as dark arts but realistically probably more similar to aetherflow.

The job break down:

3 Tanks(Now 4 with Gunbreaker)
3 Healers
4 Melee
2 Ranged
3 Casters(4 if you count BLU)

If we do get another dps it should be ranged since it has the least jobs in that style of dps.

Get ready to face tank who dont get agro since they want to dps

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Originally Posted by Reinha

A lot of NPCs with gunblades have been pretty threatening and heavily armored. I couldn't picture the Gunbreaker job as anything other than a tank.

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Regula from HW I could understand as a tank, Gaius' old and new designs and the Ghimlyt Dark boss make it very much look like a DPS.

The armor has been more heavy looking yes, but given that the MNK wannabes Livia (from ARR MSQ) and the other half of the Ghimlyt Dark had more or less the same armor, does that mean MNK is going to be remade into a tank?

As someone who has wanted a Gunblade job since the FFXI days, I was saddened when it was announced as Tank but not surprised since, you know, leaks. People in FFXI said it would never work in that game. Then Dissidia came out for the PSP and I really wanted a Gunblade DPS job just because Squall was so fun to play. But hey, at least we finally got a Gunblade job at all even if it is a tank. And hey, could be worse, it could have been a limited job...

FFXIV "may" have needed tanks and healers, (Odds are it wont make more people play tanks and healers, although I'm going to try to so maybe it will...) but did it "have" to be Gunbreaker? The Gunblade just screams DPS to me. But then again so does DRK so what do I know.

I'm curious. Why do we need new Tanks / Healers? Most of the time you can only have one tank / healer in a party at a time. 2 if you are doing trails / raids. Is it just to give the current tanks / healers something new to play before they go back to their old jobs cause they like them better? Is it to try and make new players play tanks / healers? I doubt THAT many will switch to make any significant change to the DF. Reason to have more DPS imo is because you have anywhere from 2 to 5 DPS in a party so it can be vary up the party quite a bit.

It look like SE had to concede GUN to the tanks crying for a new job, which is understandable. They had to release GUN this expension lore wise, but at the same time since they released 2 dps before, well they had no choice. We will never know if job designers wanted it dps or tanl from the start. This decision seems biased.

I was dreaming about explosive leaps and this cross shaped attack as a big damage cooldown. But when I think about it, we could get it as tank too, since a lot of defensive cd are role actions.

BUT, as I said, even if I prefer the "liberty" of melee dps (having to move around the boss gives dynamism and it feels nice), I will enjoy it as long as the gameplay is good. In fact, my only wish is that they get a haste buff to keep up (like NIN and SAM) to get a GCD around 2 sec. And if SS could be a relevant stat too... That the only thing I dislike about tanks, they are too slow and it feels bad when you main NIN. But GUN seems to be the right job for a fast paced tank with hopefully a deeper gameplay than other tanks (sry about that).

I'll just wait and try it when it's out.

Oh and I wanted to add something. Tank and heal balance will be a nightmare now. Since you only have 1 or 2 in the party, some of them will be overlooked. I think DNC and GUN will be strong for tier 1 since they are new and I fear for PLD and even WAR since DRK is, you know, the representative job of the expension. I hope SE will be able to handle the balance.

Nah dps got SAM last time. So I would say tanks got treated well this time.

excuses OP just because you did not get what you wanted. Balance Always has been an issue and it will Always be an issue no matter what jobs they add. Tanks had to sit out a whole expac with no new toys to play with, so now it's their turn. And they get a very cool looking job at that

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Originally Posted by SoleilAlphi

excuses OP just because you did not get what you wanted. Balance Always has been an issue and it will Always be an issue no matter what jobs they add. Tanks had to sit out a whole expac with no new toys to play with, so now it's their turn. And they get a very cool looking job at that

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This. There will never be perfect balance in this game, but that shouldn't stop them from trying to add new content to the other roles. Hell healer balance has been a NIGHTMARE since AST was released and I'd still eat my hat for a new healer job at this point. I'm glad tanks got something new to play with.

The DPS queue is already bad as it is..a new tank that people are interested in is great. Do you remember the time where everyone wanted to be a DK or AST and dps queues were going as fast as tank and healers for a brief period? Or did that never happened and possibly just dreamed that entire situation..

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Originally Posted by Skullhack

Oh and I wanted to add something. Tank and heal balance will be a nightmare now. Since you only have 1 or 2 in the party, some of them will be overlooked. I think DNC and GUN will be strong for tier 1 since they are new and I fear for PLD and even WAR since DRK is, you know, the representative job of the expension. I hope SE will be able to handle the balance.

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well not more nightmare that balance DD, remember DRG and NIN spend the entire expansion being the best of the best and take ages to buff MNK, SAM, BLM, RDM and MCH, i will pretty refreshing not having WAR and SCH overshadowing the rest and being finally out of the meta for once.

I don't, I'm glad it's Tank.

Queue will be shorter for a month, then everyone will return to their main job with some exception that will have no consequences on the overall queue time. But hey, if I switch to GUN as main, at least I will have shorter queue.

What the only reason Gunbreaker is a tank is so it doesn't have to compete with MCH as a DPS slot?

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

What the only reason Gunbreaker is a tank is so it doesn't have to compete with MCH as a DPS slot?

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Gunbreaker is a tank because demand for Gunblades, lore justification for including them, and the need for a new tank and healer job, all coincided for the same expansion.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

What the only reason Gunbreaker is a tank is so it doesn't have to compete with MCH as a DPS slot?

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MCH should be competitive with BRD first if they want to talk about competition.

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Originally Posted by Skullhack

Oh and I wanted to add something. Tank and heal balance will be a nightmare now. Since you only have 1 or 2 in the party, some of them will be overlooked. I think DNC and GUN will be strong for tier 1 since they are new and I fear for PLD and even WAR since DRK is, you know, the representative job of the expension. I hope SE will be able to handle the balance.

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But hey, DPS balance doesn't matter right?
How MCH was being overshadowed by BRD for the whole expansion (and when it wasn't, casters got overshadowed instead) , or NIN and DRG being super high in-demand in NA/EU PF (from what I heard anyway, since it doesn't happen in JP PF).

Though whenever it's about adding new tank or healer then it suddenly becomes issue of utmost importance.
Meanwhile DRK and WHM, both of which were being complained about a lot, were in both world first ultimate clears, and WHM saw a lot of usage in many Ultimate Bahamut groups after still because turns out when you implemented tight heal check, the healer that excels in healing actually shines. I'm not saying they're perfectly balanced, but let's be real, flawless balance in this genre is nothing but a pipe dream anyway.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

The job break down:

3 Tanks(Now 4 with Gunbreaker)
3 Healers
4 Melee
2 Ranged
3 Casters(4 if you count BLU)

If we do get another dps it should be ranged since it has the least jobs in that style of dps.

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Those are categories for (nearly) armor class, not necessarily how player interest is most divided. It's certainly not how gameplay variance is divided; tanks are obviously more alike to Melee DPS, Casters to Healers and Ranged, etc.

We shouldn't be going out of our way to fill quotas; if no genuinely satisfying job concept has been made yet for the role, nor seems readily createable, then don't sacrifice what could turn into something legitimately interesting in its own right just because a sub-role roster than can already scarcely diversify itself can fit another faintly different mapping of the same shades.

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

MCH should be competitive with BRD first if they want to talk about competition.



But hey, DPS balance doesn't matter right? Though whenever it's about adding new tank or healer then it suddenly becomes issue of utmost importance.

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Well I mean if Gunbreaker had been a DPS it could have used Scouting Gear with Aiming accessories. Is what I meant. I did word that badly didn't I.

I wish Bard was a real job and not just an Archer with a different name.

We all want things about jobs we like to change, but unfortunately they never will.

If it’s any consolation, in like 90% of content you literally will be a DPS in all but name alone

From now on, whenever a job you were looking forward to gets announced and it's not the role you wanted it to be, remember this mantra:

It could have been Limited

Let’s be thankful for it not being limited

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I'm curious. Why do we need new Tanks / Healers? Most of the time you can only have one tank / healer in a party at a time. 2 if you are doing trails / raids.

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Originally Posted by Skullhack

Oh and I wanted to add something. Tank and heal balance will be a nightmare now. Since you only have 1 or 2 in the party, some of them will be overlooked.

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I'm sorry, but these posts show very significant issues with basic math. Basic, as it is about numbers below 10...so yeah.

There are currently 3 tanks, 3 healers and 9 unlimited DPS.

In a dungeon, there is 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 DPS.
The ratio is 3 to 1 for tanks and healers and 4,5 for DPS. You have 150% more classes to compete against as a DPS.

In trial/raid there are 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 DPS.
The ration is 1,5 for tank and healer and 2,25 for DPS. Again, 150% more classes to compete against.

The only difference is in alliance raids where there is only one tank, two healers and five DPS.
The ratio is 3 for tanks, 1,5 for healers and 1,75 for DPS. And guess what?! Alliance raid roulette is the only one where tanks have to wait a rather long time for a queue. What a surprise, right?! But it's still a lower ratio than the DPS for dungeons.

With another healer and tank we'll have:
4 for healers and tanks, 4,5 for DPS in dungeons.
2 for healers and tanks, 2,25 for DPS in trials/raids.
4 for tanks, 2 for healers and 1,75 for DPS in alliance raids.

In other words...DPS will still be too numerous for three out of four kinds of content. But you know what?! That assumes that every job is used only once. That's only likely in statics for extreme/savage, for example, but it's a limitation practically unheard of for alliance raids.
So let's count that too, shall we?!

Trials/raids:
Tanks: 4 to 1, 4 to 1.
Healers: 4 to 1, 4 to 1.
DPS: 9 to 1, 9 to 1, 9 to 1, 9 to 1.
Since your chance is neither higher nor lower for every particular spot based on the party composition...you are competing with nine classes four times as a DPS whereas you are competing with four classes twice as a healer/tank. If my math didn't get too rusty, that's 43,75% of your class getting a spot. A DPS instead have ~0,3725% chance of their class getting at least one spot.

Alliance raid:
Tanks have 25% of their class getting a spot. Simple since there's only one spot. Healers still have 43,75%. DPS?! ~44,16% chance of getting at least one spot.

Dungeon:
Tanks and healers have 25%. DPS have 20,79%.

In other words...even with additional tank and healer, the chance of getting a spot in 2/2/4 composition is still smaller for DPS. The only place where it is reversed is alliance raid where tanks have ~19% less chance for their class having a spot than DPS. The healers and DPS on the other hand differ by measly 0,41%, so it's as balanced as it gets with odd/even numbers combination. The class distribution at this point will have vastly more effect than the number of spots to classes.

And DPS'es are still "kings" at the lowest chance of a spot, in dungeons, at 20,79%. Less than tanks have in alliance raids or dungeons.


So...sorry, but yeah, "balance nightmare" comes from adding more DPS, not tanks. For dungeons, trials and raids the ideal (statistically) would be 5 tanks, 5 healers and 10 DPS, and after any combination that can be achieved by adding 1 tank/healer and 2 DPS at a time, so 6/6/12, 7/7/14, 8/8/16 etc. This would negatively impact only tanks queues for alliance (which is an unfixable mess as it is because of how it differs from 2/2/4 composition)...but hey. You're way more likely to find a tank to alt a healer/DPS class than a DPS to alt a tank class...so that's actually not much of an issue. If the queue would get so high it'd be unbearable, it would actually balance itself through community by the tanks going DPS for it. Something that SHOULD be happening with DPS in other queues with the multi-class system, but clearly isn't due to how people that prefer DPS are largely unwilling to ever tank/heal.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I'm curious. Why do we need new Tanks / Healers?

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Believe it or not, Tanks and Healers want to enjoy the game too. DPS players aren't the only ones who appreciate variety.

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Originally Posted by Dfess

While I do think we need more tanks, I do wish it was a DPS job and the other planned job/jobs would be a tank instead.

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Just say it. You have tank anxiety and the class you want to play is forcing you into an uncomfortable role.

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Originally Posted by Drakkaelus

Believe it or not, Tanks and Healers want to enjoy the game too. DPS players aren't the only ones who appreciate variety.

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This is literally just it. Playing the same three tanks for another two years (adding up to six) would have gotten really grating fast. Simple as that. Am I willing to put up with -four- tanks for another four years? Also sure, if I stick around that long.

I won't deny that a new tank and healer job feel somewhat "overdue" for the new expac, but I'll also be frank and say that I don't believe the development team "fixed" the issues with tanking and healing in 4.x as they promised they would and I'm not optimistic that either new job will have unique gameplay relative to their role and that power levels will be toned down to the point where they're not just "really sturdy DPS" or "DPS with absurd group heals".

I just hope when new Tanks and Healers are introduce they don't just slap in whatever they want just to attract more players into Tank and Healer role.

Gunblade been set up to be either Tank or DPS so either way it could have gone and it went into Tank using the more defensive aspect of Magitek.

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Rune Knight is another Job that can go Tank or DPS due to how it utilize Magic for offense or defense.

I wanted to main it too as a DPS, But I will main it still and learn how to be a good Tank. it looks cool and I want to play it either way.

I don't know. Maybe my limited brain just can connect the dots. I only see a need for one Tank in the game and that's PLD. Maybe that's because that's the only one that FEELS like a tank to me. WAR and DRK just feel like nerfed DPS with enmity on a few of their moves. But! I love FF8 (baring a few of the mechanics in that game) and Squall and his Gunblade so... I'm going to try and main Gunbreaker in ShB. If I get to bored I'll go back to SAM for a while.

Having to edit because I've reached my post limit for the day it seems.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

I dunno, I always thought it was pointless to have DPS that did more than just stab the boss 100 times. That's all it really takes.

But, you know. As long as you have options, that's all that really matters, right?

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Tanks and Healers don't really add anything to the party complexity. Tanks are just, "let me keep aggro off the dps / healers." Healers are just, "let me keep the tank / party alive." While the DPS need to synergize with one another. Granted that in this game DPS synergy doesn't go beyond lowering slashing, blunt and piercing resistance and trick attack half the time. But still if you have a DRG in your party you want a BRD and MCH. Or one or the other. Got a lot of mages in your party? Use your Trabodur on Mages Balled instead of Army's Peon.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

You should probably consider that the tanks and healers in your parties, who carry you through content, are not AI or computers - They are living, breathing, in-the-flesh human beings. They like to get new things to play in a role they enjoy, too. Why should only DPS players get new classes while tanks and healers sit around with the same 3 classes forever? Just because you only like playing DPS, and you really want to play a gunblade class, doesn't mean gunblade should be DPS.

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I'm not saying Tanks and Healers shouldn't get new jobs. I do wish tho that the new tank jobs were more thematic to tanking. Dark Knight and Gunblade don't really scream "Hey hit me" to me.

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Originally Posted by Flatopia

"Don't really add anything to the party complexity?"
Well then, guys, go home. We only need one of every role. Don't like Black Mage? Tough, anything else doesn't really add much to the complexity of being a caster.
What do you mean you like Samurai? It's basically just a Dragoon with some Asian sprinkles! Just play Dragoon you goof!
Huh? Machinist? You mean not bard?
You like the concept of preventative healing over reactionary healing? Sounds like loser talk to me, Buster. Get that variety out of my face and go play White Mage.
Wait, so you mean to tell me that you don't like the flavor, playstyle, and general mechanics of Paladin and prefer the Warrior? Just play a DPS if you want mechanics, you silly bozo!

It turns out, people who play tanks actually want variety? I'm sure you'd be a bit upset if you weren't allowed to play Samurai and just told to play Dragoon or Monk instead because it didn't 'add anything to party complexity.'

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Hahaha. Good point. Bad argument. Guess I'm more salty about Gunbreaker being a tank than I realized ><

The problem is Gunbreaker works better as a DPS and it looks rather weak as a Tank, why!?...


The weapon, Gunblades are probably the smallest arms amongst tanks and it doesn't look like it could protect the person wielding it from taking much damage, there's no defense for it, I'm sure SE won't change their plans at this point but at least they could make Gunbreakers have the strongest DPS of all tanks, that way it would make more sense sacrificing defense for offense!...