U/U Gear - A reason why we cannot meld. (long post)

When it first came out I kinda liked the realism factor behind Dodore dropping his wing which in turn was crafted the Doublet. I don't know why they strayed from it when Darkhold came out. Would have been nice to have to kill mobs in Darkhold to obtain the mats to get the gear etc etc.

Anyways thats old news, I guess we are gonna have to see how AF stacks on up against materia gear. I'm thinking this...U/U gear is gonna have stats/abilities that arent obtainable via materia.

WHM AF Body could have +5 MND -10% Cure Cast Times.

Would you wear it over a +100 Mp robe?

Warrior AF Gloves could have +5 STR and Enhances Berserk/Rampage...

Would you wear it over +40-50 attack gloves?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

i dont think blue rare items should be melded. I was specifically talking about Sh gear.

but even if you can meld blue rare it wouldn't kill anything cause materia benefits are low as is. The materia choices for helm are mostly magic so if someone slaps another 10 mind on their crown its not gonna be a game changer.

---

Healing potency is huge for Conjurer, and Magic Acc is huge for Thaum. Int can prove strong for Pug as well. I realize the materia is limited for head, but there are no dps helms better than the crown... even without melding, it still provides STR and DEX. Gladiator doesn't use it simply for more Def, but it's debatable how much that is even worth dropping the extra vit.

In terms of the Stronghole drops, I think it is odd only one of the sets can be melded while the others cannot. I think it should be one way or the other, but they are still a small portion of gear. I'd probably still be using some pieces from Darkhold if U/U gear from there could be melded... and I'm not sure I'm ok with that thought.

That said in terms of the whole current melding system I 100% agree that there needs to be a request menu rather than trading your item and materia over to someone. It's a long BS process that should be simplified.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XStruckX

When it first came out I kinda liked the realism factor behind Dodore dropping his wing which in turn was crafted the Doublet. I don't know why they strayed from it when Darkhold came out. Would have been nice to have to kill mobs in Darkhold to obtain the mats to get the gear etc etc.

Anyways thats old news, I guess we are gonna have to see how AF stacks on up against materia gear. I'm thinking this...U/U gear is gonna have stats/abilities that arent obtainable via materia.

WHM AF Body could have +5 MND -10% Cure Cast Times.

Would you wear it over a +100 Mp robe?

Warrior AF Gloves could have +5 STR and Enhances Berserk/Rampage...

Would you wear it over +40-50 attack gloves?

---

My thoughts are either the AF will be completely lack-luster compared to double-meld pieces, or it will be very strong and will be our gear of choice up until lvl 60 cap raise. It's also very possible it will be like XI in that a couple of pieces will be choice and worth using while others fall short of melded alternatives.

Either way I'm pimping it all out because it looks fantastic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riaayo

My thoughts are either the AF will be completely lack-luster compared to double-meld pieces, or it will be very strong and will be our gear of choice up until lvl 60 cap raise. It's also very possible it will be like XI in that a couple of pieces will be choice and worth using while others fall short of melded alternatives.

Either way I'm pimping it all out because it looks fantastic.

---

if they make it too strong they'll have to rebalance or it may make it too easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riaayo

Their current model is that U/U gear surpasses basic crafted gear in strength, while crafted gear with materia melded into it will surpass the U/U gear. This is the idea they wish to stick to, and how they intend to balance the power of gear.

---

And this is the most lame idea ever, mainly because content becomes totally meaningless, only reason people are still doing Ifrit and Moogle is because those weapons are fairly decent.

Nobody does Darkhold anymore because the gear is useless when compared to meldable crafted stuff.

There is no point even making new dungeons if the gear you get from them is already worse than the crafted stuff you are already wearing.

Quote:

---

But what do you expect SE to do? Alienate anyone who is a crafter by rendering them effectively useless because nothing they make is all that desirable?

---

Yes, pampering to crafters which is all Tanaka's fault to begin with is the worst thing Yoshida can do, time to put his foot down and make some rules before 2.0 hits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

And this is the most lame idea ever, mainly because content is totally meaningless, only reason people are still doing Ifrit and Moogle is because those weapons are fairly decent.

Nobody does Darkhold anymore because the gear is useless when compared to meldable crafted stuff.

There is no point even making new dungeons if the gear you get from them is already worse than the crafted stuff you are already wearing.

---

content is gear driven, people may not want to accept that but it is. More people still doing ifrit compared to moogle is proof of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

if they make it too strong they'll have to rebalance or it may make it too easy.

---

I doubt it will be too strong, SE's not really put out any super OP U/U stuff yet and I doubt they will for a long while. I could always be wrong though.

I could also use some sleep, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

And this is the most lame idea ever, mainly because content is totally meaningless, only reason people are still doing Ifrit and Moogle is because those weapons are fairly decent.

Nobody does Darkhold anymore because the gear is useless when compared to meldable crafted stuff.

There is no point even making new dungeons if the gear you get from them is already worse than the crafted stuff you are already wearing.

---

Yes but I already stated that if you make the "best" meldable gear crafted with materials dropped from these same encounters, then you will still need people to do the content for the gear to even be crafted. So in the end, as long as they go with THAT route with their model, it will be solid.

Example being that a boss in a dungeon will potentially drop 3 different "tier 2 (U/U)" items, but then can also drop a piece of material that can craft a nice piece which might be "tier 1 (non-melded)" or even comparable to tier 2... but then when melded would become the high tier 3. Those tier 2 pieces would be good upgrades and stepping stones while farming the materials to build your tier 3 pieces.

That may be so but some people don't want to rely on crafters to get their gear, they want to go in a dungeon and get that awesome loot for themselves.

I plan to get my weaving and leather to 50, it doesn't mean I expect the main aspect of the game to be craft-centric, crafting is side content.

I dunno... I see it more like a challenge for the crafters.

I have an Unique and Untradable gear that surclasses something, for example an Alpine War Jacket which is a jack-of-all armor, having the better on armors that have the focus on certain stats. Crafters then can try to overpower those armors to reach a better potential than the Alpine War Jacket itself. It might take a few shots, it might take long.

To be honest I don't care that much, but I care about these U/U items being special and unmeldable, since I like this idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ejiboo

totally disagree. u/u should not be able to be melded, i mean, it would be cool and awesome and revitalize most of the gear but it completely goes against the whole premise of melding; making a normal piece of gear useful or just settle for a [free] u/u that has some stats not obtainable through melding.

u/u gear just needs to be balanced with crafted --> melded gear and i love the idea of u/u gear carrying stats that are unable to meld; i have the theory that these stats are going to be on the AF gear, making them the gear of choice over melded gear.

i do agree with the meld request list-trading and repairing is so annoying sometimes and makes everything such a long, arduous ordeal...especially when you can only trade 4 items at a time :(

---

This right here this why i proposed the idea i did in another thread i started, but they could always go for option B which is to just increase the stats of U/U items. I'm sure it could take them one sub patch to change all the U/U items.

I think when you look at it from a purely battle class point of view it comes to this

I am a level 50 X
I have spent 20 attempts farming Y
Why can Mr.A buy piece of gear Z with a bit of gil from leves and have a better piece of gear than me with only 1 meld?

Mr.A hasnt shown he can play well or that he is good at his class. But because he has solo'd a few leves or been given money from a friend, he has better gear than me.

I worked hard farming my Sipahi Body piece, why is his Raptorskin Harness with 1 piece of risk free materia better than my hardwork and effort? crafted gear should be the interim to u/u not the other way around.

one requires skill, one require money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Junpei

I think when you look at it from a purely battle class point of view it comes to this

I am a level 50 X
I have spent 20 attempts farming Y
Why can Mr.A buy piece of gear Z with a bit of gil from leves and have a better piece of gear than me with only 1 meld?

Mr.A hasnt shown he can play well or that he is good at his class. But because he has solo'd a few leves or been given money from a friend, he has better gear than me.

I worked hard farming my Sipahi Body piece, why is his Raptorskin Harness with 1 piece of risk free materia better than my hardwork and effort? crafted gear should be the interim to u/u not the other way around.

one requires skill, one require money.

---

His raptorskin harness with only 1 piece of materia should not be better than your U/U gear I don't think. I believe double or triple melds should be what make the crafted gear REALLY pull ahead.

Further more, if you are making crafted gear off of boss dropped materials, you will not see shells immediately selling these crafted pieces; they are going to keep them for themselves and their members. Most servers know the difference between someone who put in their time and work and killed the boss for the gear, and the notorious gil buyer who just buys good pieces but isn't all that great of a player. I assure you you'll be getting the invites, not him.

If this game ever get successful SE are going to have a hard time controlling RMT, whos soul intention is to sit and craft 3 and 4 times melded gear.

It's a bad idea SE !!

It is fairly lame though to be able and get pretty much the best gear available by double or triple melding some materia on it. What a grand adventure. I overcame the mighty circular materia minions on my metal anvil. Woooaaaaahhhh!

i think the old content had so much more reuse back then compared to the new ones. Like those dodore doublet, champion lances and so on back then when they were so sought after. farmers who would go and kill the NM to farm the drop. Crafters who would craft these into gears and try HQ them. gatherers who had to gather the materials for crafters to craft. n summary, battle classes had the purpose to farm and obtain the rare drops, they work together with crafters and gatherers to finish off their gears. They then continue to farm again to get a better HQ weapon/gear or to farm for rest of members. Each class had a role and part t play to the complete item.

Now all gears are dropped and alot are weaker than what can be crafted, battle classes lose the purpose or drive to redo content much especially when the gears gotten from it are not worth. Most go to clear quest or achievement mostly, or to past time. the r25 and 45 raid lasted only till the next patch and then it became obsolete as everyone would go for ifrit weapon. Instead if they had used materials dropped to craft out gears, these areas would be more useful. Could even require an ifrit horn drop from ifrit for example, and a betraal soul drop along with other blacksmith/goldsmith or whatever materials to craft out a rare Ifrit weapon. People could keep redoing them and try for a HQ wepon or slotted ones, assuming melding was allowed, that will add even more variant to it, as if meld fail, weapon gone and have to refarm the materials. content would not be just do once do few times and then leave it.

I didn;t read entire thread but just putting out an opinion. am sure others have mention something like this maybe in the thread but yea. :D.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zezlar

It is fairly lame though to be able and get pretty much the best gear available by double or triple melding some materia on it. What a grand adventure. I overcame the mighty circular materia minions on my metal anvil. Woooaaaaahhhh!

---

Some disagree. For example, As of now, it takes a boat load more time and effort to level any particular craft to 50 then it does to win the ifrit or moogle battle enough to score a weapon of three. Then again, my take on it, is that there should be no U/U gear, and every single item in game should be meldable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

Some disagree. For example, As of now, it takes a boat load more time and effort to level any particular craft to 50 then it does to win the ifrit or moogle battle enough to score a weapon of three. Then again, my take on it, is that there should be no U/U gear, and every single item in game should be meldable.

---

I think Unique/Untradeable gear is needed, I dont think unmeldable makes sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

Some disagree. For example, As of now, it takes a boat load more time and effort to level any particular craft to 50 then it does to win the ifrit or moogle battle enough to score a weapon of three. Then again, my take on it, is that there should be no U/U gear, and every single item in game should be meldable.

---

That does not matter since peeps can meld gear for you.

I think when SE created this system by taking a page out of FFVII, they should have read the whole page before taking it and running with it.

I think the underlying problem here is that all crafted gear can potentially become the most powerful gears in the game, while U/U items are static. I agree that U/U items should also have the potential to be great like crafted gear, but in order to make it fair, they are going to have to put some controls in place. This is where SE went wrong. Instead of giving every gear the potential to have 5 materia on it, why not just give each item a set amount of slots, like this:

http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...teria_Menu.jpg

This would allow SE to control how powerful a given item can potentially become. Some items would be considered better than others because they have more slots. In addition, no longer would SE have to create content, and hope that players don't trivialize it by creating unbalanced items. SE could also enhance the system by creating features such as FFVII's "linked slots" as shown in the above picture. Other changes would have to be made to the system to make this work, for example the chance for items to be lost during materia melding may need to be abolished. I dunno havn't put much thought into it (I'm sure other people will do that for me). In general though I'm thinking something a long these lines would be ideal.

As for the current method of materia melding, and the achievements attached to it, just keep it as is. Just put 5 normal slots on all current gears, and go with the new system on all gears going forward. This would be similar to how they handled the old recipes when the revised recipes were released (yea you can make the old items the same as before, but there's a new better way now and all new items will be made this way).

Anyways just thought I'd toss that out there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Firon

That does not matter since peeps can meld gear for you.

---

Just because someone who invested that time and effort can do it for you, does not mean it doesn't matter, it just means YOU feel it doesn't matter.

This is a good idea, though it reminds us of a problem that plagues most mmo's:

Gear clones....

This is a sensitive subject that most mmo communities are split on:

Position 1 - i should be able to tell a players job/class/level by looking at their gear (ie: all Level 50 RNG wear the same 2 or 3 sets of gear as they are the most optimal)

Position 2 - I should be able to have my avatar look as I wish it too and not be forced to be a gear clone of everyone else (I value diversity and a more subjective rich gaming experience)

I feel Guild wars and Anarchy online addressed these issues best

In Guild wars for example any particular class had quite a variety of gear that could be mixed and matched in terms of looks but....their was only about 4 tiers of defense ratings and all stat bonus were supplied by runes and such applied to the gear (think matiria system).

There was armor that was easy to get/craft etc, and armor that was very very rare and difficult to craft win etc.

however none of the armor no matter how rare was "stat wise" any better than any other of the same teir, and allowed for some customization via the runes etc.

In this manner when you saw a player in the rare armor you still recognized their efforts and it was an awesome and fun status symbol, but it was not the BEST armor or a BESt armor, it was just the PROPER armor for that player level/class.

The effect was: player could wear more or less what they wanted, look how they wanted...could still be identified as their class by their armor (rare armors had a different skin for each class) but players who wanted that extra "I'm awesome" status symbol could get them.

I felt it worked well; because all the armors were customizable.

Also of note: Armor could not be used by anyone other than who it was made for. Once you put it on it was fitted "customized" for you; thus it could sold etc if you wished but it could not be worn by anyone else but the original wearer.

The effect: crafters and gatherers for all tiers of gear were always in demand, as once armor was "used" it was for all intent and purposes "consumed" .

Makes sense to me anyway, why should a Roeg and Lala be able to wear the same armor if it was orginaly used by the Lala? It also makes ense from a game play/economic sense, and an aesthetic sense of keeping everyone from looking like clones.

I have noticed though; that some ppl like the clones; they feel more comfortable knowing that every level 50 RNG wear the same gear and they want to wear it too. Kinda like joining a club that has a uniform.

interesting , yes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

If this game ever get successful SE are going to have a hard time controlling RMT, whos soul intention is to sit and craft 3 and 4 times melded gear.

It's a bad idea SE !!

---

I disagree with that, RMT is waiting for U/U gear to be best out there so that they can really earn. I've seen an army of FFXI RMT in sky, claiming NM and passing the drop to ppl who wana buy them in tons of gil. There are already ppl in some server offering help to get gear in darkhold for millions of gil. You will nvr imagine how fast RMT can grow if U/U is gonna be best gear out there if it can be meld.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by urhryu

I disagree with that, RMT is waiting for U/U gear to be best out there so that they can really earn. I've seen an army of FFXI RMT in sky, claiming NM and passing the drop to ppl who wana buy them in tons of gil. There are already ppl in some server offering help to get gear in darkhold for millions of gil. You will nvr imagine how fast RMT can grow if U/U is gonna be best gear out there if it can be meld.

---

We know the majority of U/U will come from instanced dungeones in 2.0 so how will RMT do that ??

I can't imagine anyone spending real money to get crappy DH gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

Some disagree. For example, As of now, it takes a boat load more time and effort to level any particular craft to 50 then it does to win the ifrit or moogle battle enough to score a weapon of three.

---

It may require time, but mashing on X while watching netflix isn't really all that much effort. Besides that, killing a boss requires coordination with 7 other people. This is a Final Fantasy game and it's also an MMORPG. People should be adventuring to get their gear, not sitting in a dark room putting skittles onto plain steel swords.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

We know the majority of U/U will come from instanced dungeones in 2.0 so how will RMT do that ??

I can't imagine anyone spending real money to get crappy DH gear.

---

Just pty with them and go in leech, tats all.
Btw, it's ingame gil. And when DH jus come out, it wasn't consider crappy as you mentioned.

Try checking out on old forum and you can see ppl posting and offering help on the drop with the expense of gil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by urhryu

Just pty with them and go in leech, tats all.
Btw, it's ingame gil. And when DH jus come out, it wasn't consider crappy as you mentioned.

Try checking out on old forum and you can see ppl posting and offering help on the drop with the expense of gil.

---

When darkhold came out the gear was still crappy cause it did nothing cuz stats was broken <.<

Regarding the crafted vs. NM debate...

Why must it be black or white? There can be a gray area... did anyone have a major problem with Abjurations from XI?

Crafter creates a Cursed Tricorne.
Player defeats Uraeus for a Silver Abjuration: Head (U/U)
Player buys Cursed Tricorne from Crafter. Crafter blows a kiss.
Player trades both items to Hengist (Rowena's father :P).
Player receives a Silver Tricorne.

Player and Crafter are both pleased. Player that cannot defeat Uraeus cannot obtain the Silver Tricorne.

I'm not saying we should keep the words "abjuration" and "Cursed ____", but it was a pretty good system imho.

Then, adding materia to U/U wouldn't be the end of the world for crafters...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Firon

When darkhold came out the gear was still crappy cause it did nothing cuz stats was broken <.<

---

In that case most thing are crappy before materia was introduced, it is still rated "Not that crappy" at that time as you can still see ppl going DH compared to now isnt it?

As for y cursed tricone don't work that well in ffxiv compared to ffxi is due to the fact that we can level all craft to cap in ffxiv, which you can see it's nothing great being a level 50 crafter. Which is y after materia was introduced, many transaction on gear is active compared to before.

Ingame balance is always the hardest thing especially when it comes to economy wise. SE did a good job in maintaining that imo. At least now, crafted gear can still sell, farmed mats can still sell. The day when both of those cant sell is the day that e game is dying imo. (Or they have to come out with tons and tons of content fight in order to satisfy us) I for 1 will just login for primal fight etc if U/U can be meld.

The only thing I feel is being able to socket materia into U/U is by rendering the stats in a way where HQ crafted > U/U > NQ.
It is still possible after patch 1.21 where HQ crafted stats is going to be made relevant. (applies for crafted gear vs coffer gear)
As for primal fight weapon, they either improve the current stats of weapon or reduce the stats of primal weapon else the gap is going to be quite big if they are to make those meldable too.

Anyway that is only an idea, I believed SE have more talented ppl to think much further in order not to implement things that will cause issues for 2.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JakeRoon

In Guild wars for example any particular class had quite a variety of gear that could be mixed and matched in terms of looks but....their was only about 4 tiers of defense ratings and all stat bonus were supplied by runes and such applied to the gear (think matiria system).

There was armor that was easy to get/craft etc, and armor that was very very rare and difficult to craft win etc.

however none of the armor no matter how rare was "stat wise" any better than any other of the same teir, and allowed for some customization via the runes etc.

In this manner when you saw a player in the rare armor you still recognized their efforts and it was an awesome and fun status symbol, but it was not the BEST armor or a BESt armor, it was just the PROPER armor for that player level/class.

The effect was: player could wear more or less what they wanted, look how they wanted...could still be identified as their class by their armor (rare armors had a different skin for each class) but players who wanted that extra "I'm awesome" status symbol could get them.

---

Pretty much what I'd wanted to see in FFXIV

I will probably get slapped for saying this, but the casual play system in 14 factors into this debate. A more difficult combat system and slower level progression would be a step in the right direction.

As it stands now the game is so top heavy with r50's that crafted gear needs to be balanced with endgame equipment to justify even leveling a craft. A slower and more challenging climb to the top would make crafted goods more important to the lower/middle portion of the game and up until acquiring that U/U equipment.

Personally, I believe that as long as the U/U gear is difficult to get, it should be slightly better than what it is possible to make just from crafting with materia. I also mentioned a system to further enhance U/U somewhere on page 2 of this thread to reward players at endgame using both DoL and DoH quests. If there is incentive to explore all classes and content, people will do it, as soon as one aspect becomes obsolete it will disappear. So lets keep all portions of this game interesting and rewarding.

I saw someone make a post regarding cursed items/abjurations from FFXI. I'm new to these forums and I'm not entirely sure how to do quotes.... Anyways,

I could see that system working very well in 14 actually, but rather than there being cursed pieces, require the abjurations to work off of the current gear. What I mean by this is; the player goes out and kills some epic NM and receives some abjuration for a tanking body piece. Lets just say this abjuration requires a Cobalt Cuirass to be turned into the new piece. All materia from the old Cobalt Cuirass could be transferred to the new piece. What this does is it gives incentive to the DoW/M to go out adventuring while not effecting the current crafting system whatsoever. People will still rage-meld their old pieces; those that are great players will now be rewarded for what they do.

like I was trying to say, there is no need to make a whole game CASUAL or HARDCORE

you can make a game that easily does both, like having rare armors that have the same stats as non rare armors, but the rare armor is an awesome status symbol that no casual player would ever be able to obtain really. etc etc

That way casual player still can PLAY (ie they get the necessary armor) but hard core player still get that extra awesome reward type status symbol.

Titles and achievements that were recently added are another example of this type of thing. It's to give the HARDCORE players something to do that gives them awesome prizes, but they are not something a casual player would really NEED to do to be an effective player.

Really all the HARD CORE players want is something that is challenging and a useful trophy that says "hey look at me I did this really awesome thing!" which is a good idea.

the concept has been applied successfully in many games.

Another effect it has is keeping armor from going obsolete, as all armor is the same defense etc, it just look different/ cooler ^^