Let Me Level up in 5.0

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I remember when myself and the ex hit HW. He picked up DRK immediately after with the full intent of power-leveling it and then proceeding with the story. Similarly, I picked up AST, even though I only partially mained it. Rest assured we probably would've passed if we had to start at 1. It was grueling enough as it was.

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Again People Are Bypassing the fact That I said make it optional Not force Anyone to do anything. But since you spoke of going against the system. SE itself went against the 2.0 system of starting out a class, leveling it and at some point being contacted by a more skilled npc of the guild leader to further yourself into a job. It's nothing new the foundation is there. It seems the mentality of having everything handed to you is the double edge sword of ff14... Most unskilled players start out at such high levels never learning their job and get carried through dungeons and content with their entire knowledge of a job or instance based upon Someones YouTube video. So even at high levels people still learn jobs wrong because their gameplay is based upon Someone else's experience. How many tanks have you seen over pull in dungeons not knowing how to use cool downs or the skill level of the healer healing them. This is getting besides my post, to me and as it seems to some others leveling brings a Different experience from starting at max or close to it. I have no reason to use my chocobo, Farm fates, run squadrons or run from a random monster that spotted me in the field. You said dont force a person to level But SE Forced us to Be Leveled... I just want the option

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Originally Posted by Turnipsi

Cap at 75? Why?

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Probably because that's what FFXI did. Started at 50, went to 60, then 70, then 75 and stayed there for a couple expansions.

Of course gear was good for years, not months. They are completely different games.

Introducing job boosts doesn't day anything past that the devs thought that was a good idea. It might be true that most players don't enjoy levelling, but I haven't (so far) seen any evidence of that.
I could see an argument that introducing new jobs at a higher level indicates that the devs wished for us to not have to do earlier levels, so I'll give you that, I have no counter.

I agree, your jobs feel incomplete at lower levels because they are incomplete. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with that. Say you go into sastasha as summoner, sure you can't summon bahamut, but you can still play well. Yes, you'll know what you're missing, and what skills you would like to use, but that's not an argument that it shouldn't be played at that level or that there's not enough kit.

It's up to individuals how they get those levels, none of my business if they level it or job-skip. I disagree that it takes a lot of time to level, because it's not that long, especially when compared with the time other things in the game take.

Rukia, no player is forced to pay anything beyond their subscription.
If a job starts at level 1, you are not forced to buy a skip potion. Levelling remains a one time thing, it's not the end of the world if it takes a little work.
What's wrong with putting a little bit of time into a job you want to play? I doubt there would be so many people upset as you imply, merely a vocal subset who want to take it into raids or msq or their content of choice.

Option.

As in, you have a choice. When unlocking the new class, a popup asking if you want to start it at level 1 or level 50 (or whatever the new starting level will be)? You would not be forced to start from level 1 unless you chose to do so.

Giving us the choice to start our leveling journey with a new class from level 1 would not interfere with your desire to get yours to end game as quickly as possible.

Optional. A choice.

This would be amazing.

Leveling from 1 holds no appeal for me at all, and I'd probably just ignore classes that required that from this point. Having options is good though, so if this is optional and new jobs can start leveled, that's perfectly fine with me.

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Originally Posted by typhlo

What's wrong with putting a little bit of time into a job you want to play? I doubt there would be so many people upset as you imply, merely a vocal subset who want to take it into raids or msq or their content of choice.

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To me leveling isn't putting time into the job. At very low levels, you're just a generic 3 or so button class that has nothing to do with the class that you'll actually be playing at cap. This can sometimes persist for a really long time (for example, Blackmage, which doesn't even begin to function properly until level 60). Starting at or near cap just makes the class easier to learn and more enjoyable, leveling from 1 just makes me want to do something else.

It's also going to involve them having to "balance" the class for an additional 50/60 levels, plus come up with job class quests and stories for those levels. This would likely mean we wouldn't get as many new classes, too. Then there's all of the people who wouldn't read the warnings that they're choosing 1, not 60, and start harassing the GMs to change it/put them back when they decide it's boring.

So.

Is it possible to just add an option that people could ignore and therefore it wouldn't affect them? Yep, and sure, I think it could be done with just some toggle, no story quests, just literally receive your skills as you level. However, I personally believe that the potential drawbacks are such that it's a heavily unweildy answer to a minor "dislike" (I can't even say problem, because it's much more preference than an actual flaw) that I don't see it being viable. And for me to be ok with it, they'd have to implement it as mentioned above.

1) I'm not ok forcing it on everyone.
2) I'm not ok with it adding optional story/quests, and that would just compound the frustration with people who like story and feel cheated that they're being forced to do something they don't like to get something they do, or else who won't read the box as mentioned above and will get a get angry that they're forced into 60 levels of grind, or forced out of seeing a story.

And without there being any additional bells and whistles, you can literally do this stuff yourself. You can sync in dungeons, solo/duo potd, you can add your skills to your bars one by one.

The only thing it doesn't solve is watching your xp bars fill and there are so many ways to do this in this game that I can't really feel sorry for people who are deprived of it for a portion of 5-8 classes.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

Fact: most people don't like this game's levelling experience.

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Fact: Putting the word "Fact" in front of unsubstantiated statistics do not make those statistics actual facts.

Personally, I have no idea whether it is actually the case that "most" people think the leveling system is a waste of time. It is, however, undeniably the case that a lot of folks who play role-playing games derive satisfaction by starting with a weak character, and watching that character grow and develop into a strong character through questing, slaying monsters, and so on and so forth. While there are many ways to do this that do NOT involve a leveling system (FFX's sphere grid, for example), there are very few games that give you you full skillset right out of the gate, unless that skillset is very simple.

The expansion jobs in this game push those boundaries a bit by starting off at a higher level with full kits for that level - but they all require that you've gotten a job to level 50 or higher before you can even touch them, so you at least have some experience with the game. Even there, though, I feel it was a bad move; there's nothing stopping a DPS player from diving into Dark Knight as soon as they hit 50, even with no tanking experience whatsoever. I met plenty of fresh Dark Knights around the start of Heavensward that would very much have benefited from spending time in those three-button dungeons...

So either don't make job stories or quests for those levels or make them available to everyone regardless of which option they chose. Have the default choice option be for level 60 unless you specifically check the box for 1, since most will want the higher level version anyways that would reduce the margin for error.

Could it be done? Yes. Will it? No, I very much doubt it.

Just because the majority doesn't like the level grind doesn't mean that those of us who do can't have hopes and wishful thinking that something like this would ever be implemented. Our opinions are every bit as valid and since it's never going to happen anyways, there's nothing wrong with us voicing our preferences. Not everyone is in this for quick access to the end game.

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Originally Posted by typhlo

Rukia, no player is forced to pay anything beyond their subscription.
If a job starts at level 1, you are not forced to buy a skip potion. Levelling remains a one time thing it's not the end of the world if it takes a little work.
What's wrong with putting a little bit of time into a job you want to play? I doubt there would be so many people upset as you imply, merely a vocal subset who want to take it into raids or msq or their content of choice.

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No one is being forced to use anything or do anything they don't want to do but my response is to people who keeping saying "if you want new jobs to start at a higher level then buy a skip potion". That is a poor response because you're telling a company to take way something they were giving us for free, raised initial level with each new job and then throw it in the cash shop. It is the same thing as me saying "if you want to start at level 1, they should just sell a delevel potion where you can start at level 1 and with cutscenes and story included." You wouldn't like that very much. Based off of history they already set the expection that new jobs won't start at level 1. Forcing that change on everyone when it serves no real person wouldn't make much sense and would probably make their customers pretty annoyed. That's why I said the only option to make everyone happy would be to create a toggle. This would be a different conversation if the jobs weren't expected to level 50 or higher on release.

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Originally Posted by Tlachtga

Because leveling jobs in this game is awful, and it'll only get bearable once we're allowed to keep our learned skills when lvl synced down. Currently, most of the jobs are borderline unplayable when below 70. No one wants to run through Sastasha or Copperbell with literally 4 buttons and zero aoe.

Also, leveling a job isn't "content".

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Yeah below a certain level the content is really tedious for people who arent very new.

I think Leveling up at low levels with new jobs is a good idea.

Hear me out:

A lot of the reddit posts I see are new people to the game complaining that they are lonely. Why? No one is leveling anymore. Everyone who has played for a long time by now is at max level and into stormblood content while newer players are left straggling.

There is the option of level boost but some people like the idea of traditionally leveling up with a group of players. To maintain a sort of community. Which is what made FATES such a big thing. Solo is nice but people who play Final Fantasy mostly do so for the community experience. Which is why Eoreza Cafe and Cosplay is a great part of our experience. We love to meet likeminded people.

So when the newer folks get left behind with no one - I think that ideally a new class starting somewhere towards the beginning will bring a nice touch back to fans.

The hardcore ones are most likely going to do POTD and HoH etc but the ones who want to get their friends into the game can do so with a new class starting at a low level.

I really think SE should encourage starting fresh. It would be good for the community. Why are we so adamant on separating the jobs from the newer players? I remember when I got into Brayflocxs Longstop (I'm pretty sure I destroyed the spelling) and seeing Astrologian in my PT that I was like omg that's so cool. I def want to get to heavenward to obtain class. But if Astrologian started at 50. I would not see that class for a long time and mayhap gotten discouraged. Maybe a rare sight on their leveling roulette but generally just that.

Sure you can lock the classes behind Story - it makes sense but at least have it so low levels have something to look forward to. To keep playing the game. They see this class they can't reach yet. But they're excited to see their animations fighting beside them. An already established hero with a new found budding one. Mentoring and able to guide the person first hand rather than a Mentor chat that can be filled with nonsense time to time and generally you can get ignored.

I just wish they would push towards letting the new players have someone that they can mesh with. Final Fantasy shouldn't be a game where people struggle to find friendship. I hate seeing people say they can't group - because the world is empty. That to me isn't final fantasy. I feel bothered and while I create new characters the best way I can. I still wish I could go back to my main and help them by leveling with them. Without feeling, I have to make many characters to achieve that. But whatever that's just my opinion.

Bleh

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

A lot of the reddit posts I see are new people to the game complaining that they are lonely. Why? No one is leveling anymore. Everyone who has played for a long time by now is at max level and into stormblood content while newer players are left straggling.

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...and making everyone start two new jobs at level 1 and have them run low level FATEs for a day before they start spamming dungeons is gonna help here how?
Its not that I dont get your point - but thosw new jobs wont breath life into the old areas for long anyways. The days we had a lot of people doing FATEs are over, because by now there are better sources of exp - and I'm sure thats partly because people were vocal about not wanting to do FATEs yet again.
The world isnt going to get filled with people by forcing them to level 2 jobs up to level 16. FFXIV isnt a game where you find friendship in the open world - you do that in groups, we have tools to find those.

I wont object to the option to start at level 1 - if that only includes leveling that job up from level 1, instead of 50 (or maybe 60), not some extra content like quests or skills locked behind quests. If you wanna slog through 16 levels of FATEs and then 34 levels of boring dungeons with only 3 buttons to press... be my guest.
But please dont make me do it again if I wanna play a new job or experience the full story of said job.
And dont get me wrong: I enjoy leveling! But quite frankly: most classes/jobs arent that enjoyable at low levels, because they're lacking basically everything: Full rotations, special gimmicks... your whole playstyle changes at 50/60/70.
And its also not like you'd really "learn" how to play your job by going through the low level stuff. This idea of slowly getting skills and integrating them into your toolkit doesnt work - as mentioned before: It only forces you to forget everything you've learned by the time you hit max-level and only then you can start learning how to play the job the way its meant to be played. I always hated getting new skills during the leveling process that basically required me to re-organise all my hotbars because suddenly I got a new and vital skill to fit in. By now I'm actually bringing up the full list of skills a job is gonna get, read up about all of them and plan my hotbars around the skill that I'm gonna get at level 70 - rather than pretend that it matters at all what I'm doing when the leveling roulette dumps me in Sastasha yet again.

I enjoy leveling a class when leveling that class actually means playing it in an engaging and "meanigful" way. Level 16 with 3 buttons to press isnt that.
I was very happy I didnt had to go back to farming FATES while watching netflix for an hour with my redmage or samurai and could instead get an understanding and feeling for the core-mechanics of the jobs right away.
I recall meeting an archer in TamTara once - they were around level 24 I think? - who was rarely using their dots. I spend quite a while convincing them that those are really, really important skills for him later down the line though - obviously it would have been a good idea to use them either way, but seeing how important dots are for bards in the end, its really worth drilling that into ones head right at the start - instead of wasting time learning other stuff.

I dont think that the low level-leveling experience is actually offering anything worthwhile
-It wont breath life into the open world or dungeons.
- It shouldnt add job-quests for the levels 1-50 if you want to keep it optional
- You wont be able to learn your job the "right way", so you're basically spending 50 levels doing stuff the wrong or at least in a non-optimal way. Depending on the job thats also gonna be incredible boring and only consist of pressing 3 buttons. Fun.

...if you want to slog through FATEs - fine, make it an option. But please dont make me go through a boring leveling experience again. And let me be clear about that again: When I talk about "boring leveling experience" I mean boring as in "only having 3 buttons to press because thats all you get at level 17".
I enjoy leveling. But I find it much, much more enjoyable with a job thats already functional and isnt missing basic skills.
Having jobs start with a full, fleshed out and thought through toolkit that allows you to play the job "right" right away was a good idea and I hope they continue with it.
I'm sorry that I dont feel like "earning" intresting gameplay through suffering through low level FATEs again and if I come off as if I want stuff handed to me... let me assure you that I dont. But I dont wanna have to "suffer" through boring gameplay to get to the good stuff when there is no good reason for that.

Won't even be a FATE train, just kill a few enemies to like level 5 then hop into PotD for a few days.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

x

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I'm not saying they are solely going to be running Fates. Most people who don't want to be doing that are going to be in POTD and HOH which you can enter POTD at level 1 and the 50 version at level 1. I'm saying that people who have friends who want to try to start the game should be encouraged to have a mentor with them.

People who play the game already know how it works. They can get the class to high levels quickly there's no one forcing them into anything. I've created countless of characters and they are already expanding into higher levels. It's not hard like you said and its not hurting the higher players. They know how to get to higher levels. PERIOD.

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Challenge Log
Hunting Log
Leves
POTD
Roulettes
Quests
Dungeons
PVP
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If you think you're going to slog through the levels you're mistaken greatly.
When the Hevensward content jobs came out people got to 60 in a day or so.
If people want the job to higher levels they can achieve it easily.


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As the one button two button thing?
I get it - it's boring but at the same time people learning needed to see how to rotation faired.
Like I said you don't want that there's always POTD where you can enter it at 50 via level 1. You'll have all the buttons to mash then won't you?

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

I'm not saying they are solely going to be running Fates. Most people who don't want to be doing that are going to be in POTD and HOH which you can enter POTD at level 1. I'm saying that people who have friends who want to try to start the game should be encouraged to have a mentor with them.

People who play the game already know how it works. They can get the class to high levels quickly there's no one forcing them into anything. I've created countless of characters and they are already expanding into higher levels. It's not hard like you said and its not hurting the higher players. They know how to get to higher levels. PERIOD.

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So you're not talking about people who are starting this game alone and then struggle to find friends, but about people who start this game at the recommendation of friends already at higher levels and who are lonely now because they friends arent doing FATEs in central Thanlan with them for the first 16 levels?

I dont fully follow your logic here - if you're talking about new, lonely people your suggestion wont do anything because of what I adressed earlier.
If you're talking about new people with friends already in the game your suggestions wont - or rather shouldnt - help either. Seeing how you can still easly access everything the new person can, even at max level, nothing is hindering you to help your new friend out. Except yourself. If you need to be forced into doing stuff with low level friends by being at the same low level, I feel deeply sorry for them. It also wont help if the new jobs arent something you're intrested in to begin with.

You can play with newly started friends even if you have everything at max-level. You dont need to be level 10 to play with someone at level 10 (at least not outside of Eureka, which desperatly needs level synch... but thats another topic).
And the open world wont fill for long with people who have to slug through the first 16 levels, before they can head into dungeons. Let me assure you that it wont have any lasting effects - when ninja was released we had ninja-FATE-parties for a couple of weeks before everything died again.

And yes, it IS hurting longterm players by making them go through a boring leveling experience for no good reason (again: Boring leveling = the low level stuff where you have like 3 buttons and non of your core job mechanics).
Making them start at level 1 isnt benefitting anyone. I get that some people might want to do that to themself and I wont object to an option given to them that makes them start at level 1 (to be clear though: JUST leveling, no job quests til the intended starting level).
I know how to easly level at low levels - thats why I know that it isnt intresting, fun or engaging content that I wanna do. Its content in which my job lacks basic skills like full combos and in which I either learn nothing or learn stuff the wrong way. I'd rather start with a full toolkit and an idea where the job is headed right away. And despite being level 70, I can still join friends for their first run of Sastasha.

I meant generally all low-level characters new and people who are starting with the recommendation of friends.

I get where you're coming from but there's nothing preventing you from having a full toolset from the beginning. If you're so adamant about it just go into POTD and get the higher level so fast. You can easily jump to higher levels if you know what's up.

I'm more or less just talking about the people who want to have that experience again and in the same can level with people who need the help.

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

I get where you're coming from but there's nothing preventing you from having a full toolset from the beginning. If you're so adamant about it just go into POTD and get the higher level so fast. You can easily jump to higher levels if you know what's up.

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I would personally consider immoral if SE released a new job at a level lower than the one achievable with a jump potion. I understand that they added jump potions only to help new players (right? ah ah...ah...), and since that was the case (again...AHAHAH) I expect them to release new jobs starting from the highest possible level achievable by using a jump potion.

I personally don't like the idea of Jump Potions but that's a whole other debate.

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

I meant generally all low-level characters new and people who are starting with the recommendation of friends.

I get where you're coming from but there's nothing preventing you from having a full toolset from the beginning. If you're so adamant about it just go into POTD and get the higher level so fast. You can easily jump to higher levels if you know what's up.

I'm more or less just talking about the people who want to have that experience again and in the same can level with people who need the help.

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But there is something preventing me from having an actual, functioning toolkit from the beginning if the job starts at level 1 - which is excatly that: Starting at level 1!
The last two expansions were clever enough to give us jobs that were already at a functional level, with a functional toolkit. You're telling me just to do content that I might not enjoy to get the job to an enjoyable level? I want to enjoy my leveling experience and thats much, much easier when it doesnt start out with an aweful dread through stuff thats not very intresting (FATEs, killing low level enemies by hitting one button in whatever scenario) with a job thats not very intresting (hitting one button - and btw that teaches me nothing about the syngery and the gameplay of said job)

On the other hand there is nothing stopping you from pretending you dont have a full toolkit and going through the dungeons in order - if you really wanna do that.
And there should absolutly be nothing stopping you from helping your friends that you recommended the game to - for sure not your level.

Yes, a leveling experience is needed to learn a job in a more safe enviroment and by giving us more and more skills over time - but frankly: The first 50 levels add little to that, at best they do nothing, at worst they confuse or teach wrong things.
If you really want to start at level 1 - you can do that in PotD just as much as I can start at level 60 there...
...and saying that I'd like to repeat that I dont even mind an option for players to forcefully delevel and start at 1, if they really desire to. But dont make me do that. Dont make me go through low level FATEs or PotD again (some of the stuff you listed wont work for levels 1-16 or even 16-50 - cant really do hunts at level 10, at least not most of them) when the devs already showed that they understood that giving us fully functional job at a certain level is the better way.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

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Hunting logs are what you get after the level 10 class quest. I wasn't talking about the major hunts.

But yes I get what you're saying if anything they should release a level sync system like they did 11.

I'm with you OP, I would prefer to level the new jobs from level 1. I was sad when I saw RDM started at 50... but sadly our opinion is super unpopular. We're just going to have to roll with it since were a tiny minority ( and if were not I don't see this opinion very often ). When i've voiced my opinion about new jobs starting at level 1, i've been shot down in anger by friends and even my husband haha.

I just wish they wouldn't keep boosting the jobs ( correct me if im wrong? I remember reading the new 5.0 jobs will start at 60 instead of 50 ). I know not everyone enjoys leveling as content but I love it. It's why I have so many alts. I feel like SE is stealing content from me by making jobs start at such a high level but I totally understand not everyone feels the same way.

I'm not one to white knight SE but I feel like they did this because it's what a majority of the people wanted which is a good enough reason for me. Can't make everyone happy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ On the other hand maybe they can give masochists like us an option to start at level 1. I would be totally down for that! That way those who hate leveling don't have to do it!

Would you then be able to start out the new jobs from character creation? Everyone else is common lancer/sword person/basic mage, then there's this dude with a soulstone... After all, anything added won't have a class but go straight into job. That's lorewise kinda what's referred when our senior characters pick up that new tool and soulstone, we have the experience and promise through other thing.

I also don't see a point in starting at 1. You won't even learn skill by skill, as their usage and traits changes on the way up, making you trash whatever was learned. There's no learning rotation bit by bit, because there's no rotation.

They could implement a system whereby you can choose to start at lv1 or level 50. Starting at level 1 enables you to acquire an extra glamour set or some kind of emote/mount/furnishing/title or some such. People who start at 50 could still get these things but are required to do something else like 1000 duties or something.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

They could implement a system whereby you can choose to start at lv1 or level 50. Starting at level 1 enables you to acquire an extra glamour set or some kind of emote/mount/furnishing/title or some such. People who start at 50 could still get these things but are required to do something else like 1000 duties or something.

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Why something extra for those who start at level 1?
According to this thread people want to start at level 1 for the sake of it - no need for an extra reward.

Not to mention it hardly takes 1000 duties to get from 1-50 @_@

With all the recent changes to jobs, playing below lvl 70 with most jobs is very boring and broken. They can just allow rogue to be unlocked at lvl 1 and give it a crappy opening quest that tells you something like come back when you are stronger ie lvl 15.

Lvl Sync needs to be reworked imo. As new expansions come out it only gets harder for content that is under the current lvl cap.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

I still don't get why people who don't want to level don't just buy jump potions???

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Some people don't have that kind of money.

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

You're more than welcome to make a checklist of "four runs of Satasha, five runs of Tam Tara, Six runs of copperbell, six runs of halatali" etc before you let yourself play a job in more recent content, but please don't force it on everyone else.

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It's one run of Sastasha, one run of Tam Tara and I think two runs of Halatali and two or three Toto-Rak? After that Haukke Manor I think three runs...etc.

If you have high level characters on your account you get significant bonus and early dungeons give you several levels. Especially if you have the +exp items on. I think it's about a level per dungeon run until about 50 or something like that if you use the highest level dungeon available to you.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

What is probably not understood is why someone wouldn't be ok with doing the same things he would do as if starting from level 1. He can just pretend that he's lvl 1 instead of lvl 50/60 and spam a low level dungeon a few times before moving to the next one. This way he can still "get the most out" of the levelling experience.

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It's impossible. Level syncing is not strict enough and when level synced you are much more powerful than when "on level". Not to mention, you have all those skills dropped on your hot bars. And they all need to be there if you want to use roulette. And if you don't?! Then you have to wait longer for a queue. When you are low level you can just spam the roulette for faster queue with comparable experience. If you are higher level you're likely to get a much higher dungeon than what you want or you have to wait a longer time for queue to pop.

Not to mention...new players don't really have a choice. If a class doesn't start at lvl1 they just won't be able to play it AT ALL...until they drudge through tons of story.

And...yes. The lost class quests are a problem. The high-level classes lack lore in comparison to the lvl1 classes.

For the suggestion of "start with a checkbox option to begin at Lv1 or Lv60", they might not even be able to introduce a mechanism like that, as the game tends to be quite rigid with that sort of thing.

On the other hand I've previously wondered if they could implement a two-tiered unlock system by having some kind of bare-bones "here's your weapon, come back when you're Lv60" that would let players get into those classes earlier. Though I would expect something more like Lv30 than Lv1.

It would be very dependent on whether the 'unlock class' instruction includes a "set to level X" instruction that could vary, or whether it's programmed as if you've inherently leveled that class to X already.

I think it could also make lore rather awkwardly restricted if they had to allow for that setup within every story.

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Originally Posted by MidnightCerise

Some people don't have that kind of money.

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Mate you wouldn't be playing this game if you didn't have that kind of money.

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Originally Posted by Syrus718

Why cant we have the option to start new jobs at level 1?

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Because the majority of the new jobs we have had since ARR launch are unlocked when you have already experienced a fair chunk of the game.

You're no longer a green novice at that point so the lvl of those classes reflect that. They're still low lvl but the devs think you're well passed the point of starting with only having access to guildhests as your first dungeons because you're in HW and beyond. You're no longer new to the game, so you get more options than the training wheels instances.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

It's also going to involve them having to "balance" the class for an additional 50/60 levels, plus come up with job class quests and stories for those levels. This would likely mean we wouldn't get as many new classes, too.

1) I'm not ok forcing it on everyone.
2) I'm not ok with it adding optional story/quests, and that would just compound the frustration with people who like story and feel cheated that they're being forced to do something they don't like to get something they do, or else who won't read the box as mentioned above and will get a get angry that they're forced into 60 levels of grind, or forced out of seeing a story.

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But Your ok With Challenges, Weapons, Titles, And other incentives Locked Behind Ultimate/Savage Content?
I've maxed out every class, Job crafter and gatherer, also I be done all content expect ultimate and the hildabrand quest because they do not appeal to me right now but that doesnt lead me to call for these Things to not be Available BY CHOICE AS AN OPTION I Like The longevity of leveling and as for story quest and people missing out on them just do what most people say to do when it comes to content and watch a video

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Because the majority of the new jobs we have had since ARR launch are unlocked when you have already experienced a fair chunk of the game.

You're no longer a green novice at that point so the lvl of those classes reflect that. They're still low lvl but the devs think you're well passed the point of starting with only having access to guildhests as your first dungeons because you're in HW and beyond. You're no longer new to the game, so you get more options than the training wheels instances.

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Good point but with all the jobs So Far You had To Go back to ARR Essentially To Play with was considered the end of the tutorial. I just want the Option to go further back no harm no foul

I kinda understand the op. I’m a bit divided in this one. I get that for some, especially returning players that want to experience the new expansion and new job can be frustrating, put personally I like the levelling experience. When RDM and SAM came out it felt a bit short for me...

The AST starting at 30 felt a bit better as I only did it in Heavensward, so 30-60 felt a bit more fulfilling experience. But again I’m not of those that has to do everything super quick. I like to pace myself. I have all battle classes to 70 except DRK that I’m enjoying it levelling slowly.

I would love if there are new classes in 5.0 there would be an option to level them around 30/40. I still like to once and while do the ARR and level 50 dungeons. It can be fun especially if you have someone new and are helping that player out.

But again I totally get why majority of ppl don’t like this option.

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Originally Posted by Jib

But again I totally get why majority of ppl don’t like this option.

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My only take on it is I'm not even sure they could make it an option without messing up the rest of the game when it comes to classes and jobs. Starting at level 1 means character wise you're a complete nobody. A no name adventurer just learning how to not trip over a sword, whack yourself with a cane or not snap a bow string. Versus starting at level 30 when character wise you mastered the basics and are ready for something more advanced. That's how class to job progression is in the game.

That said, how can it mess up things in the game? Well, they have two ways to go about it for players that do want the option. The first is they can design a new starting level class quest arc for every new role they wanna put in the game. Something they been shying away from to slow down cross role skill bloat and to make things more simplistic and less dev time and resources spent. The other choice being to mix the new role into one of the existing starting class quest arcs. Something they really don't want to do due to what happened with SCH and SUM branching off Arcanist. I play SCH and I never touched SUM aside from getting the job crystal and because of that I'm also a max level SUM. Branching off one of the existing class arcs means you'll be equal level to whatever you leveled up the original role to be the minute you get the job crystal for the new role. So including the option to level up from level 1 means even if you didn't wan't the option, you'll still be effected by it.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

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What? I dont think you understand what people are asking for. You're acting like people don't have job crystals when they sync down to level 15 in sastasha or something. You're also acting like we demanded job story quests, i don't think anyone here demanded that. I'm pretty sure people who want this option just want to level from 1-New Cap. Nothing to do with Lore or Story or Job Crystals.

Not to mention the dev team has expressed a desire to 100% do away with the beginner classes so why would they merge new jobs with something already considered dead and useless? I think YoshiP said his goal was to get rid of the class system by 5.0 or 6.0 and just have jobs.

Not sure why you're trying to reform the wheel here. Example: Unlock Job. Pop up Menu: Start Job at X or Start Job ar 1. Second Pop up: You selected __ Are you sure?. Done. I know there is logistically more to it than that, but you're making it way way way too complicated.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

What? I dont think you understand what people are asking for. You're acting like people don't have job crystals when they sync down to level 15 in sastasha or something. You're also acting like we demanded job story quests, i don't think anyone here demanded that. I'm pretty sure people who want this option just want to level from 1-New Cap. Nothing to do with Lore or Story or Job Crystals.

Not to mention the dev team has expressed a desire to 100% do away with the beginner classes so why would they merge new jobs with something already considered dead and useless? I think YoshiP said his goal was to get rid of the class system by 5.0 or 6.0 and just have jobs.

Not sure why you're trying to reform the wheel here. Example: Unlock Job. Pop up Menu: Start Job at X or Start Job ar 1. Second Pop up: You selected __ Are you sure?. Done. I know there is logistically more to it than that, but you're making it way way way too complicated.

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I....really think you need to go back and re-read what I said. Nowhere am I "acting" like no one has job crystals when they level sync. Of coarse they do! Remember this is a lore and story focused game. The whole thing with level syncing wherever that came up in the eyes of the game lore is a different thing. According to the devs level syncing means you're not technically doing it again, you're reliving it through the echo. I'm talking about starting out fresh, not repeating things. I'm not "acting" like anyone is demanding any new job quests. I'm saying what SE would no doubt do to make things fit. I.E new job quests. Remember? Lore and story focused game. I'm also not trying to reform the wheel. This is the wheel SE had in place a very very very long time ago.

I'm ok with people starting at 1 if they want to. Doesn't bother me. Honestly it just seems like a convenient excuse for them to not have to make job quests starting from 10, and not have to design weapons below 50/60 multiplied by the amount of new jobs. Notice RDM has no weapons below 49 except a bunch of joke weapons at level 1. I mean I guess they could just copy and paste the exact weapon 30 times and distribute the stats properly or implement a scaling weapon that syncs up (like heirlooms in wow) but that would sort of take the fun out of collecting gear. For the devs, I feel like them starting a job at 50 or 60 allows gear they had to make anyway sync down, saving them a lot of work.

People have been asking for a sort of "New Game+" function for a while now, and doesn't seem like anything has happened.

There are a lot of people who complained when the Heavensward jobs came out that they started at too low a level, especially for those who wanted to proceed through the game on those jobs. I think this feedback is why we got the Stormblood jobs unlocked when you hit level 50 on a job and start on level 50. That way you could just pick up the jobs and keep going from where you are.

As for me, I liked learning the basics from the start, and so with all 5 jobs, I ran through the lower dungeons on purpose to learn the basics, but I didn't need to do all the runs of all the dungeons to level up before I was at the point of "yeah. I get it" to introduce new skills

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Originally Posted by Vaer

not have to design weapons below 50/60 multiplied by the amount of new jobs.

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Here's a potential solution - design the weapons similar to how the Ala Mhigan earrings are. They're for level one, but item level 50. They get the job done and help you out until you hit 50, at which point their exp boost also expires, giving you no reason to keep using them as actual gear.
Have the new jobs' starting weapon be item level 1, but a high enough ilvl so that it will both last you until you reach the job's intended starting level, as well as be good enough of a start for people who didn't start at level 1.
Lore-wise they can either say you accessed the Soul Crystal's knowledge immediately like they did for all post-ARR jobs, or just tell you to go and train until you unlock it through actual leveling. Story-wise the difference will be non-existent, maybe a text bubble or two.

Although let it be said that even if we're given the option, I don't think they'll start at anything under 30 simply because of the class->job system. Maybe when that's fully abolished, which I think will still be a while.