Petition To Expand Character Creator

I don't want them to put significant time into editing gear for weight sliders, but, I do want an expanded character creator with new facial options, better hair (being able to have different bangs with different styles), unlock the horns for Au Ra, makes no sense to have only one face for different horns.

Adding new clans for each race would be really nice too.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

Adding new clans for each race would be really nice too.

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Another idea is allowing for interracial characters. F'lhaminn is clearly a mix between the Seekers of the Sun and Keepers of the Moon as seen by her name and eyes.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cv9D4wBWAAAj5T2.jpg

We also have Hilda who is a half-elf half-hyur.
http://i.imgur.com/GZtCPjS.jpg

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Originally Posted by Edax

Another idea is allowing for interracial characters. F'lhaminn is clearly a mix between the Seekers of the Sun and Keepers of the Moon as seen by her name and eyes.


We also have Hilda who is a half-elf half-hyur.

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The little girl from the Moonfire Faire had Seeker eyes and fangs like a Keeper.

Can I please just get a good, full beard? After three years of defending the realm, gathering, crafting, house hunting, etc. My Warrior of Light has probably not shaved as regularly as he should.

If I had to work with what the devs are limited to, then I'd like to request additional presets. Skin color change should be added to aesthetician and lastly, body tattoos could be new preset feature as well.

But the servers can't handle it!

yea I'm all for an updated character creator. I think a sliders for various body parts and/or weight is fine to a certain extent, armor is programmed and designed to match body types, there's a reason the same chest piece can work on a roe and a lala. So weight sliders/butt sliders, arms, head, whatever is reasonable. Also added facial features is cool, also maybe body tattoos.


and I say this everywhere, but hair length slider plz, and yea I know I know clipping, but I really don't care, clipping will always be an issue with or without a hair length slider. Or just longer hairstyles, that aren't all shy of going past the mid-back. the fact npc characters, but not pc, get to have butt length hair infuriates me to no end lol

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Originally Posted by Loki

I put a like on your message OP but we ask that since now....what?...4 years?

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Most (read: all) of the games I know of that made major texture/character upgrades didn't do so until a good 8 or so years into the life of the game. I'd be flabbergasted if any dev team put the resources into doing it just 4-5 years in.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

But the servers can't handle it!

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You cannot expect a small, indie company with such severely limited resources like SE to have a server that could handle any sort of load in 2018. I mean there are already only a handful of devs working their fingers to the bone trying to get the patches out with such a wide variety of unique content. And the fact that we pay so little already between all these services with the sub, extra retainers, the cash shop and the new app, its like they are giving the game away for free! What more can we expect from them? Yoshida has been nothing but transparent about everything since the game launched. At least their commitment to communicating with the player base is still strong. Pay attn. there is only so much they can do!

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Originally Posted by Edax

We also have Hilda who is a half-elf half-hyur.

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I want this option to be in the game solely due to the hope that it significantly reduces or eliminates the "fix Elezen cause I don't like them" comments I see popping up a little too often in some places.:mad:

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Most (read: all) of the games I know of that made major texture/character upgrades didn't do so until a good 8 or so years into the life of the game. I'd be flabbergasted if any dev team put the resources into doing it just 4-5 years in.

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If we count 1.0 the game is 8 years old and 5 years old if we start from 2.0.

The question is, ff14 will live 3 years more if it continues in this way? I'm not sure.

I really would just like more faces. I get weirded out every time I see another person with my face. Even worse when that other person has your face AND your hairstyle (only happened once). And for crying out loud, please let different races wear each others clothes. I don't get why that doesn't exist already and shouldn't (I think anyway) be hard to implement. I would also like to see facial hair options for players who roll male in this game. Too many squeaky clean looking dudes out there.

I suppose if they were to do it (which wouldnt be completely game breaking, but must take into consideration how armor/gear is afflicted by it), the following things SHOULD be manageable without too much alteration to the current engine:

1) More Face options - Not just faces themselves, but variable components of the face too. Doubling what they have would go a long way in helping promote a different look.
2) Broader height ranges - Height sliders should be a bit broader. As it is now, with some races, the height slider does not actually give you that much difference.
3) Muscularity sliders - All races should have this (including Lalafells)
4) Unlocked attributes that dont make sense locked - This is more specific to AuRa and their horns. You should be able to choose horns independently of Face
5) Colorization of certain aspects - Again, more towards Aura, but Scales should have a color range you can choose from. The current Blue-Black, and Off-White color palettes actually limit what skin tones you can use, due to certain skins looking horrendous with those colors.
6) (A controversial one) Actually make the "chest" slider for Lalafells represent something or remove it outright - Ive mentioned in other threads that Im not 100% a fan of some of the aesthetics of Lalas in general, but there are issues with the design of the race that should be addressed. The Chest slider, for whatever purpose, exists on female lala but has no actual 'impact on their appearance. I can speculate that the reason has to do with the idea that they dont want to get hit with 'sexualization' issues. However, since we all know thats a half measure considering the glamour and emotes possible in game as it is, its kind of a moot point. Furthermore, Lala's by design have very little distinction between males and females. While I get that theres more to girls than chest assets, it is a very easy short hand to differentiate between men and women, and also may help bust some preconceived notions about Lalas being too "kid like". Should they not adjust it, they should remove it in favor of other sliders to help differentiation between the sexes or an extra customization option for Lalas in general. Either/or is fine, but they need to either own the slider or remove, and not have some vestigial customization that amounts to nothing.
7) Scars and other minor aspects - All races have access to All Scars and/or any other aspects (beauty marks as an example). Scars should be available not only for Face, but also Body.
8) Facial tattoos - You should be able to select multiple at the same time.

Things to be changed outside of character editor:

These are facets that can help with customization but dont require implementation to the character editor itself. Basically, they should be aquired VIA MGP at GoldSaucer or through POTD/HoH or Achievements

1) Unlock glamour that alters between races - Things like the hempen camise as an immediate example should be available to all races. The 'start' race should either receive it through a quest or by default, but should be able to aquire the other ones
2) Unlock Emotes based on Race - Any major emote variation based on race should be acquirable.
3) Unlock Hairstyles - Any hairstyles that are race specific should be free for the start race you have, but the others have to be unlocked
4) Eye Colors and Hair Colors - New eye and hair colors should be acquired via GS
5) New tattoos should be acquired via Gold Saucer
6) Body Tattoos - Tattoo Artist Unlocked Via GS, with a base set available and additional Tattoos unlocked via MGP or other sources
7) Piercings - Body and Face piercings could be unlocked along with Tattoos and additional ones acquired via MGP or other sources

I think these kind of changes, while not the exacts of everyone here, would be broadly accepted as a decent step and be well received without making huge alterations to the engine itself.

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Originally Posted by Loki

If we count 1.0 the game is 8 years old and 5 years old if we start from 2.0.

The question is, ff14 will live 3 years more if it continues in this way? I'm not sure.

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It's not about how a game looks as it is about how it is to play.

FFXI is still going strong and look at those graphics. Even with poor graphics and all its flaws, XI is still an amazing game. And as someone who still plays it I can tell you there are still plenty of ppl not only playing it, but beginning it for the first time. There are well over 2k ppl on my server alone even during the lowest pop times.

I think the only thing XIV needs to be concerned about is its lack of veteran retention and not its graphics. They need to be more innovative with content and keep older content relevant if this game is to survive.

I can only hope! I've been hoping for something like this for so long. I know it isn't minor, but a lot of my enjoyment comes from making different characters lol.

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Originally Posted by Loki

If we count 1.0 the game is 8 years old and 5 years old if we start from 2.0.

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I mean we could count 1.0, but then you'd have to acknowledge that the game has already gone through its major rework, albeit not one involving texture/character creation upgrades.

At which point the clock one might conceivably measure by when determining when this game would likely see a major upgrade to things like character models and such (which may take more work behind the scenes than we realize, hard to tell with us not being on the dev team) would realistically be reset...and we're back to my original point. This game as is happens to be just over 5 years old, and most MMOs that have done major character model upgrades took 8+ years (HD textures, where those have appeared, have come faster, but that is a different beast than reworking character models and changing character creation to a more significant degree).

In fact, the two I'm most familiar with - LOTRO and WoW, took about 10 years before they each managed to do it.

Of course, that's if they even decide they want to make more than minor changes over time.

As for living 3 years more if it continues this way? At no point has the lack of a character model rework ever doomed an MMO, so if that's what you're worried about you can rest easy.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see improvements made to character options, but I'm also being realistic about the chances of a major rework.

Ability to change horns for Au ra

Ear spots as a option for miqote

Actual eye brows for male high landers

And ability to dye eye brows a separate color

Scars are just a option for all not face exclusive

All tattoos moved to face paint

And can have 3 face paints on at a time

A big reason why we're extra-unlikely to get any body-shape-modifying sliders is gear. Adding a slider would mean modifying every single piece of gear to respond to that slider, instead of being a fixed shape.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

All tattoos moved to face paint

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That won't really work, because the "tattoos" category only exists for some characters, and is used for other things on different races.

Quickest example: Elezen. Most of their design options are the same, but Duskwights have their unique tattoos while Wildwoods get ear clasps instead. Either way it's two independent options, plus an associated colour choice.

I'm fairly sure Au Ra limbal rings use this same category.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

A big reason why we're extra-unlikely to get any body-shape-modifying sliders is gear. Adding a slider would mean modifying every single piece of gear to respond to that slider, instead of being a fixed shape.





That won't really work, because the "tattoos" category only exists for some characters, and is used for other things on different races.

Quickest example: Elezen. Most of their design options are the same, but Duskwights have their unique tattoos while Wildwoods get ear clasps instead. Either way it's two independent options, plus an associated colour choice.

I'm fairly sure Au Ra limbal rings use this same category.

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Racial tattoo/markings can still be a thing it just a unneeded menu option

I think it is a needed menu option, but more for the other things. If it's only going to be used for a few races getting things like limbal rings, it's wasted data for everyone else. Instead, find something to put in there - and they've decided unique racial tattoos is the way to go.

Also, under the current system with only one facepaint option, it lets people set two different colours for the tattoos and facepaint.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Another idea is allowing for interracial characters. F'lhaminn is clearly a mix between the Seekers of the Sun and Keepers of the Moon as seen by her name and eyes.

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These aren't *really* interracial characters, at a character-creator level. F'lhaminn is 100% a Moonkeeper NPC model with a name that suggests the person F'lhaminn must be part-Sunseeker. There's nothing stopping a player from doing the exact same thing right now.

Hilda is a Midlander NPC (you can see it from her body size and emotes) who has been customised to have a unique face with pointed ears as part of it.

Essentially she's the inverse of some of the Garlean characters (eg. Nero, Lucia, Maxima) who are technically Elezen NPCs with modified faces and rounded ears.

One thing they could add, and it wouldn't - necessarily - require a big overhaul is more options for faces, face paints, eyebrows, eye and mouth shapes.

Seriously, you can only go too far with just 4 face options.

But in an ideal world, we could have sliders.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

These aren't *really* interracial characters, at a character-creator level. F'lhaminn is 100% a Moonkeeper NPC model with a name that suggests the person F'lhaminn must be part-Sunseeker. There's nothing stopping a player from doing the exact same thing right now.

Hilda is a Midlander NPC (you can see it from her body size and emotes) who has been customised to have a unique face with pointed ears as part of it.

Essentially she's the inverse of some of the Garlean characters (eg. Nero, Lucia, Maxima) who are technically Elezen NPCs with modified faces and rounded ears.

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You basically supported her point. F'lhaminn proves that from a lore standpoint there is mixing. Add to that the little girl I mentioned that is obviously a mixture. You can't currently put Elezen ears on a midlander nor vice versa. Thank you for your support.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

You basically supported her point. F'lhaminn proves that from a lore standpoint there is mixing. Add to that the little girl I mentioned that is obviously a mixture. You can't currently put Elezen ears on a midlander nor vice versa. Thank you for your support.

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From a lore standpoint? Yes. But that doesn't add anything to the character creator other than stopping you from using the "generate random name" button. So I'm not sure how she is relevant to "ways they could expand the options". I see it as proof that they don't think they need to in this case.

Also I'm not 100% sure but I think there may be only one character model for child-Miqo'te, and it has the fangs? I haven't confirmed it myself, but it got brought up in the Lore forum when we were discussing the Moonfire Faire, and someone else said that they all have the fangs regardless of their clan. (We've seen a few other Sunseeker kids around, like T'kebbe in Idyllshire.)

Also yes, if they were able to add any kind of new options they could choose to implement "put elf ears on your Hyur". But for now, as far as I can tell, Hilda isn't anything special in terms of the NPC build - it is a standard Midlander model (as produced by the character creator) with a unique customised face (a developer-only extra feature, used for many major NPCs). I'm guessing that the ears are not an "option" for them, ie. something they turn on or off when building the character, it's just built into the custom face and overrides the default ears.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

From a lore standpoint? Yes. But that doesn't add anything to the character creator other than stopping you from using the "generate random name" button. So I'm not sure how she is relevant to "ways they could expand the options". I see it as proof that they don't think they need to in this case.

Also I'm not 100% sure but I think there may be only one character model for child-Miqo'te, and it has the fangs? I haven't confirmed it myself, but it got brought up in the Lore forum when we were discussing the Moonfire Faire, and someone else said that they all have the fangs regardless of their clan. (We've seen a few other Sunseeker kids around, like T'kebbe in Idyllshire.)

Also yes, if they were able to add any kind of new options they could choose to implement "put elf ears on your Hyur". But for now, as far as I can tell, Hilda isn't anything special in terms of the NPC build - it is a standard Midlander model (as produced by the character creator) with a unique customised face (a developer-only extra feature, used for many major NPCs). I'm guessing that the ears are not an "option" for them, ie. something they turn on or off when building the character, it's just built into the custom face and overrides the default ears.

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You're not connecting the dots. these are not isolated things. The lore should support design choices and the design choices should support the lore.

You say Hilda isn't special then go on to say why she is.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

You're not connecting the dots. these are not isolated things. The lore should support design choices and the design choices should support the lore.

You say Hilda isn't special then go on to say why she is.

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We're approaching it from different views. I'm saying Hilda is "not special" because she is one of many NPCs who have been customised in a way that is beyond the reach of players because (as far as I can tell) it uses a different method. Instead of being a "built face" in the creator, it's a unique face for just that character. The method is not special just for her. Her face includes modified ears but that doesn't mean they can simply give players access to the same option in the "face builder".

And it may well be a lore "design choice" that they don't want Hyur-Elezen mixed-race characters to be common. They haven't shown any other similar NPCs in all this time.


Also I'm not sure what you mean by these being "not isolated things". They are the rare occasions we can point out that a character seems to be mixed-race, and it is generally achieved in ways that are not linked to creating additional features in the character creator, although sometimes using methods 'beyond it' and inaccessible to players.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

We're approaching it from different views. I'm saying Hilda is "not special" because she is one of many NPCs who have been customised in a way that is beyond the reach of players because (as far as I can tell) it uses a different method. Instead of being a "built face" in the creator, it's a unique face for just that character. The method is not special just for her. Her face includes modified ears but that doesn't mean they can simply give players access to the same option in the "face builder".

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Nothing is simply given. Everything requires work. That's life kid.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Nothing is simply given. Everything requires work. That's life kid.

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Work indeed - and they seem to be doing a lot of work within pre-existing bounds*. As I wrote earlier, I suspect in the case of the character creator, those bounds are how the game is set up to read the string of instructions describing a character's appearance, and changing it might mean altering huge amounts of code. All the existing NPC data needs to be able to refer back to it and find the instructions where they need to be. Everything that displays your character needs to read all the instructions.

As I wrote, I think there are ways they could insert extra options into the existing framework, but I don't believe they 'can' (or at least realistically would) undertake the massive overhaul required to change what data is stored about the character and how it is read.



* for another example of working within bounds: the glamour dresser. If it was as simple as implementing a straightforward glamour log and independent-of-gear "glamour slots", surely they would do that instead? But I don't think they can do that within the bounds of the character data, so had to find a way of applying glamours that would still produce a final result where the system expects to find the appearance instruction: attached to the gear itself, like it always did with prisms.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Work indeed - and they seem to be doing a lot of work within pre-existing bounds*. As I wrote earlier, I suspect in the case of the character creator, those bounds are how the game is set up to read the string of instructions describing a character's appearance, and changing it might mean altering huge amounts of code. All the existing NPC data needs to be able to refer back to it and find the instructions where they need to be. Everything that displays your character needs to read all the instructions.

As I wrote, I think there are ways they could insert extra options into the existing framework, but I don't believe they 'can' (or at least realistically would) undertake the massive overhaul required to change what data is stored about the character and how it is read.



* for another example of working within bounds: the glamour dresser. If it was as simple as implementing a straightforward glamour log and independent-of-gear "glamour slots", surely they would do that instead? But I don't think they can do that within the bounds of the character data, so had to find a way of applying glamours that would still produce a final result where the system expects to find the appearance instruction: attached to the gear itself, like it always did with prisms.

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So you mean...they might actually have to update the game to reflect player demands?

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

So you mean...they might actually have to update the game to reflect player demands?

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Technically I mean they would have to heavily update the game to reflect this particular player demand - and I don't think they will.

The system could be better but it is not terrible as it stands.

There are things I believe they could do within the bounds of the existing system to improve it.

At the same time there are other things I'd love to see happen, but don't expect - so I'll make do with what we've got.

It's so easy for us to sit here and say "wouldn't it be nice for them to add XYZ" and then have that turn to "it's just a simple request, just one new option, why won't they do it? Don't they care?" - when actually that one new option would be masses of work behind the scenes.

(And even if they were going to give us more options, I doubt that access to the 'unique face overlays' they use for NPCs would be one of them.)

Also, unless you're deliberately trying to make an unusual character, I suspect you're still going to end up with a lot of people making similar character designs regardless of how many extra options they give you. People will still gravitate towards particular choices, and if a lot of people are all independently creating the "best-looking" character they can, they may still come out looking the same.

(Though I also wonder if there is some element of "noticing characters that look like yours". I seem to notice a lot of red-haired Hyurs with my character's hairstyle. My alts are rarer character types, so I can't easily compare those.)


...and that is the end of my post limit, and I am not going to be doing that unsettling thing where people quote from a post lower down the page.

FFXIV is going to have to step up their game eventually to compete with all these next gen mmos and all their customization craziness.

Eyebrows for Highlander men.