How do you think they should handle relic weapons in the next expansion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aster_E

I, for one, like WoW's idea of leveling the weapon WITH us as we progress.

---

I'm not a fan of Blizzard games but I pay attention to them. It seems like they took things to the next level in Legion with how well their relic-like weapons are integrated into the expansion as a whole and you can customise them cosmetically. I know that Yoshida is a Blizzard fan so I'd like for the dev team to see this as a challenge and create weapons which feel as important and relevant and unique as those in Legion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

(Am I the only one who thought the Zodiak Braves or the Darklight Raiders, etc. were the coolest thing?)

I'm tired of paying of Gerolts bar tab. Let's get some real lore in here.

---

Yes I've seen enough of Gerolt in weapon quests. I wouldn't mind a cameo from him next expansion but I'm tired of him being the only person who can forge and enhance special weapons. As an example we could instead just seek out ancient artefacts of power which fuse together to form a weapon all by themselves by some mysterious force within them, no Gerolt required.

Since you mentioned Darklight, I was thinking it would be cool for there to be new gear based on those designs, a kind of Darklight+ as a nostalgia anniversary thing. They were in V1 and then became the very first tomestone (of philosophy) sets we grinded out to reach IL 70 in V2.0. They still look cool. We could have new similar designs inspired by those.

I think fates set in the reg land is the best option. And not just random lil fates here or there, these should be Foxy Lady/ Roided up unicorn level facts with fates you have to do before hand to unlock em and there should be a decent amount of times you have to run them.

Fixes a ton of problems IMO. You can be on a decent Pop server where 98% of the map is empty cause everyone's either in one of 2/3 cities or in housing. Many people who do relic stuff are casual players not interested in hard core raiding, give these people a reason to organize and run around the map. Give others who want the rewards from these kinda huge fates people to play with (As someone who tried for 2 weeks to trigger Foxy Lady and failed I can tell ya ... that ish is annoying to do alone or with only a few people). For example for one of the phases you could need a part that you can only buy with 50 of a new special item you get from Foxy Lady ... and you can only get 2 at most from that fate AND it basically only appears once or twice every 24 hours.

That kinda stuff would encourage people to do what ever new or old HUGE fates they make.

Doesnt have to be Eureka mechanics but I do like the idea of having a dedicated instance to go progress your weapon. Being sent from one end of eorzea to another for each step is why I never even bothered with Heavensward relic. But because of eureka I have actually been on top of it and loving it. I still dont understand the hate for it, I know its not everyones cup of tea but it doesnt have to be. The thing is its a really busy piece of content and has been since its release so SE will look at it as a success. You want to see an actual failed piece of content, look at Lords of Verminion. It's been dead content a week after its launch and you know what? Its not getting any further dev time. Even Diadem was more popular but it didnt scale with the rest of the game and that was the big problem with it that they seem to have tried to correct with Eureka.

And i predicted this way way back. People wanted Notorious Monsters, they got right indignant about it too, it was kinda ugly. I said that with the core of the game the best you will get is a FATE that is like an NM. People also really wanted EXP parties to be a viable way to level, well, now they have that too. I do wonder though if this content would be a little less controversial if it wasnt strictly tied to the Relic progression. Could that be the source of complaints? I'm quite curious to know if people in threads from back in 2013 and 2014 are happy with the content they asked for, may not be exactly how they envisioned it but this is the best this game can do currently.

But seriously, anyone interested in seeing "who the heck would ask for this, no one wanted this" just search the forums for (EXP parties) or (Notorious Monsters) and see threads dating back to the beginning of ARR.

Just ... just don't link the only way to acquire a relic to a single piece untested, unproven new content again.
If you don't want to or can't raid - relics are all we really have! And to have them tied solely to what turns out to be an unmitigated disaster of a failure really, really hurts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MageBlack

You want to see an actual failed piece of content, look at Lords of Verminion. It's been dead content a week after its launch and you know what? Its not getting any further dev time.

---

I feel like you're smart enough for me to call this intellectually dishonest. Comparing LoV and it's lack of meaningful rewards with content required to acquire relic weapons is really, really unfair.

The devs have placed Eureka on a pedestal from which it basically can't be toppled - it will always remain accessible because they will never lock anyone out of being able to complete a relic. They even have to sink more time and money into it because it's already established as our relic formula for this expansion.

I would say comparing content of that magnitude with LoV is just plain nonsense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MageBlack

I do wonder though if this content would be a little less controversial if it wasnt strictly tied to the Relic progression. Could that be the source of complaints?

---

Definitely the source of my complaint. Eureka is definitely not something I'd have wanted, let alone asked for. Diadem was only ever "OK" IMO when it introduced the Matron version. That version was great because allowed some of the rarer gathering nodes to be up all of the time. Not to mention it was a great way for shards (and still is, but good luck getting that to pop now). Like I've said before, relic is now annexed away from the rest of the game behind what is Eureka. Had Eureka been just story or... something... else, it'd have been fine? Maybe? Again, not sure if it'll even be possible to get the Eureka-tied weapons once Eureka falls out of favor (since a lot of the FATEs done to acquire mats have mechanics that sort of rely on a ton of people being around).

I want it to be Eureka2.0. Because it's good and there is nothing like it in the game. Long live the chain!

Once you hit like the next expansion and everyone has moved on from the content, how are you expected to collect these relic weapons. It would take 100s of hours to solo the content even if they nerfed it to the ground?

At least that is what I thought, I could be wrong, but it's very difficult even doing it now as a group. Has the population of Pagos players declined because of the unpopular mechanics?

If they are gonna continue the way the are just remove it. As it stands now it shows they are putting no real thought or imagination into this content. They could've kept it the same as Anemos and just expanded on it, quests, hunt board, emergency mission. I mean if you are just gonna add in a mob grind then do it in the open world we have plenty of beautiful zones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

It would take 100s of hours to solo the content even if they nerfed it to the ground?

---

That depends on what they're nerfing. If they nerf the content as in enemies and battles, yeah, it would still be horrid. But they can - and should - nerf the grind itself. Just look at things they've done for other relics - they introduced daily and weekly quests that give you some of the items you need for various steps. they've introduced numerous ways to get the items needed for the relic because now you can get them through dedicated quests, poetics, or even GC depends on the item. They've done it already for Anemos - you don't have to actually pop Pazuzu to get his wings, which seems to take into account an eventual drought of players in the zone.
I can't believe I'm about to say it, but they could introduce a system similar to levequests. Would either take from your allowance, or just be a daily challenge, where you a fight a monster and it gives you a hefty chunk of Light to help fill your kettle.
There's a lot of things they can do to make this doable, and actually solo-friendly. But I doubt we'll see such hefty adjustments until much further down the line.

I still love the idea of our weapon levelling up with us. Have us receive the starter in an MSQ scene or a side quest at the beginning of the expansion, then have it tied to individual quests you open up as you progress through the zones. Have it tied to doing the unique fate chains in each zone (but tied to completion, not an RNG drop). Have every dungeon count towards it as we go through them. And then at 80, give us different challenges every tier. Even a set of them a la Wonderous Tales. Maybe completing a WT entry will also give you points towards your weapon as it learns from you, sees the world through your eyes. I don't understand how the Eureka slog means anything story-wise towards our weapons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I feel like you're smart enough for me to call this intellectually dishonest. Comparing LoV and it's lack of meaningful rewards with content required to acquire relic weapons is really, really unfair.

The devs have placed Eureka on a pedestal from which it basically can't be toppled - it will always remain accessible because they will never lock anyone out of being able to complete a relic. They even have to sink more time and money into it because it's already established as our relic formula for this expansion.

I would say comparing content of that magnitude with LoV is just plain nonsense.

---

I'm glad you think i'm "smart" lol, cause I know i'm pretty dumb most the time. First off, sorry for this being a really late response but I did want to address it briefly.

Unfortunately you chose to cherry pick my comment in order to make your point which is also intellectually dishonest. Allow me to point out that i did address the very thing you brought up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MageBlack

I do wonder though if this content would be a little less controversial if it wasnt strictly tied to the Relic progression. Could that be the source of complaints?

---

What I was referring to by referencing LoV is the way to protest content is to voice your concern (like has been done ad nausem on the forums) and also, most importantly, boycot the content you dislike. I know people will force themselves to go through content they dont like just for the reward, I have said this before too and firmly believe this to be the true core of the issues plaguing FFXIV currently, Reward. Rewards motivate your players to participate in content and if it is not properly incentivized the content will die off. Lack of meaningful rewards is why I dont bother with the Savage and Ultimate raids, why put myself through all that to get something that is outclassed by the next patch? But my initial comment was not about rewards, that was what you inserted into it.

I honestly cant see why anyone feels they are forced to do this content for the relic weapon, that makes zero sense in the grand scheme of the game. At most the relic weapon will be the "best" weapon AFTER the final phase and only be relevant until 5 levels into the next expansion. I also mentioned that Diadem suffered from lack of scaling (a huge issue with FFXIV's strict vertical progression) and once better gear came out the content died. Others have pointed out that right now, if you want an equivalent iLev weapon you can do the 24 man raid and get a 370 from that. To me saying "i have to do eureka even though i hate it" is intellectually dishonest or at the very least lacking foresight.

If you want to have a conversation about rewards and incentives, we can do that but i feel we are on the same page.

Bouncing this because I just read the new Tales from the Storm about how Estinien got his SB armor, and incidentally, where the DRG AF3 we receive came from. And I'm livid.
Eureka, specifically Anemos' stages of the relic weapon and armors, actually spit in the face of the sets' lores. These are items that had a story, a history, and some, depending on how the additional, out-of-game lore handled it (and why couldn't it have been in-game, SE? yeesh. guess I'm getting that new lore-book), are actually tied to NPCs you have a strong connection to.
Not only is Gerolt's tempering with them treated as just something off-handed (even a half-thrown line about how they're using Eureka's materials to upgrade your meaningful gear would've been better), but the weapons end up being transformed into something else altogether in Pagos. AFs never matured well with time, but nor were they stepping stones for something else. The personal feeling and journey of both Relic->Zodiac and Anima weapons was a huge selling point for me, and if Anemos is anything to go by (I swore off Pagos until the nerfs), it's completely missing from this relic iteration.

If they're going to make them a huge grind release them at the start of the new expansion so that when the inevitable lull happens, players have something to do.

Options.

This is currently the most tedious light grind and the only option you have is to kill monsters and chain them. There is no other option that is more time efficient. Previous iterations of the light grind had you doing duties, fates, trials and you could go at your own pace since you will still be earning tomes, achievements (tank mount specifically), dungeon/raid gear etc. In Pagos there is no benefit to what you are doing outside of getting your relic to i370. For me personally I'm gonna wait till it gets patched to have bigger exp/light buffs or until my sub runs out. However by then the next area might be out and I'm sure Pagos will be a dead step meaning chaining and NM fates will be impossible due to low player rates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Wrong. The forums are ripping it apart. That’s different, because the majority of players do not post here.

I actually happen to like Eureka.

---

Reddit has also been ripping it to shreds too, this level of backlash is not common for most content released, its pretty clear people in general are not happy with it for many reasons.