Rathalos EX

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Originally Posted by Miste

I think you misunderstood something here....?

Looking at the screen is one thing.

Staring at it trying not to blink for fear of getting hit is another.

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Maybe I just do what you're saying naturally because what you describe sounds unnatural to me. To continue with O7S, i had to keep a sharp eye on the boss at all times to hit my positionals as he turns his facing like 1000x. And while learning the fight, i have to pay attention to my Jumps so they dont turn into suicides.

My problem with it is that I'm a gunlance user in MH and my play style isn't about dodging but snap blocking and counter attacking. So being put into a fight with a Rathalos as a shield wielding PLD but being unable to really block anything with said shield was a bit off putting. One half of my brain was saying "Bring it!" as I stood my ground, and the other half was saying "No, don't! Shields in this game are just decorations, they don't really work!!" as I tried, and failed most of the time, to run out of the way. I'm sure I'll get use to it, but it feels really clunky to me at the minute.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

Maybe I just do what you're saying naturally because what you describe sounds unnatural to me. To continue with O7S, i had to keep a sharp eye on the boss at all times to hit my positionals as he turns his facing like 1000x. And while learning the fight, i have to pay attention to my Jumps so they dont turn into suicides.

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Ah, you play melee jobs. Yeah, that might be why it is more natural for you.

I main healers mostly. I don't really play melees (I'm not very good at them).

I did the fight on RDM which I am also a bit less comfortable on so doing the rotation and trying to do decent damage while staring constantly at the boss trying not to blink in case I miss him turn at me was just a bit taxing on my eyes.

All in all I think it is a good fight and it was exciting. I just have some eye trouble when it comes to possibly farming it much, just a bit too much staring to avoid his attacks quick enough.

Psssst damage in this fight doesn't matter. Doesn't bring him down any faster. Feel free to spam 1 while he's up in the hair.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Psssst damage in this fight doesn't matter. Doesn't bring him down any faster. Feel free to spam 1 while he's up in the hair.

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As a RDM you need to actually build your mana gauge so that you can do good damage when you knock him down. So I wouldn't think this is a good universal suggestion.

Anyone know how the Japanese players are reacting to this fight?

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Originally Posted by Dedayius

It's a lot of fun but agree the hit boxes are terrible and the wonky netcode, plus just about every single person doing it at the same time resulting in weird lag for many of my group, results in a lot of unnecessary deaths.

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This. It's pretty awesome getting to see good 'ol Rath again, but FFXIV isn't designed very... well for this sort of combat. There's random bits of lag in the instance and that'll definitely get you killed, hitboxes are also fairly unreliable.

In a game like MH where you can actually dodge/block, a fight like this is fine. You can't reliably dodge here. You can strategically run to a safe spot, but I've been clear of attacks and still gotten hit by them. So, I often find myself holding my breath or wincing whenever I have to dodge anything 'cause I just don't know if I'll make it out or not, despite knowing what to do.

Overall, the fight's fun - I've just never been a fan of XIV's server latency.

50 scales definitely seems like a lot for such a thoroughly unenjoyable and gimmicky fight.

Good old capcom. Bringing it's hard difficult to SE for its crossover. All jokes aside people on the other side of the deal were pissed too. Apparently both sides of the crossover are old school capcom hard. I'm loving the fight tho. But I'm odd and love having monster hunter in xiv.

Dumb fight that encourage you to go 3 tanks 1 healer or 4 tanks, if you can't dodge just take the hits, melee and blm are useless and while smn, rdm, mch might do decently brd is the only dps you should consider because of paen, healer is nothing but an esuna bot.

Yeah this has been my experience too. I did normal on my BLM last night and then went to party finder looking for groups.

A. They were all already demanding you have clears and threatening a kick if you die.
B. Every group was either only accepting four tanks or three tanks and one healer.

If the whistle isn't something you can trade between characters, probably means I'll be stuck trying to gather my own group because the community is already pushing out most classes and its only been 24 hours.

Wouldn't be a problem if people were remotely competent. Just saying.

Managed to get 2 clears so far as a WHM. One was standard 2 DPS, 1 healer, 1 tank, the other was 1 DPS, 1, healer, 2 tanks. Its definitely less awful with more tanks since they don't die almost immediately after getting hit.

The hitboxes are a mess. Move far out of the way only to get killed, and then re-appear far out of the area where the dragon attacked. Happened to almost every group I ran with, even in normal.

Not to mention Rathalos EX is not a real Extreme Trial as it only allows for light parties of four players, the EX in the name feels really loose!...


I would have liked for this one to be a real Extreme Trial for a full party to at least be worth of the name but maybe the rewards are just not up for it!...


I agree in that the armors are pretty ugly and the mount while majestic is a simple looking dragon, it should have a glow effect like any other Extreme Trial mount, if you have any of them then you know their looks are far above the rest, specially the falcons from Heavensward's EX trials!...


In the end, being the unusual trial this thing is I believe it will get easier and easier as time goes by, the good thing about this collaboration event is that it's permanent unlike previous ones and maybe that's a reason why it takes so many clears to get the prize!...

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

Not to mention Rathalos EX is not a real Extreme Trial as it only allows for light parties of four players, the EX in the name feels really loose!...


I would have liked for this one to be a real Extreme Trial for a full party to at least be worth of the name but maybe the rewards are just not up for it!...


I agree in that the armors are pretty ugly and the mount while majestic is a simple looking dragon, it should have a glow effect like any other Extreme Trial mount, if you have any of them then you know their looks are far above the rest, specially the falcons from Heavensward's EX trials!...

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But then it wouldn't be Monster Hunter, which generally only allows a party of 4. And making it glow would probably be the most ridiculous thing they could have done. Rathalos doesn't glow.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Even doing the fight one time is kind of exhausting on my eyes because there isn't much of a break in the fight, he is constantly targeting and if you aren't staring at him you'll miss it and cause KOs.

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If the fight doesn't offer downtime and you need it, make your own. I don't think people will worry too much if you will run around for a second or two to blink like mad, just so you 'dodge' his attacks without even knowing they are coming. So yes. I may be missing something, but as far as I can see, as long as you strafe around him you should be fine from just about any attack. Though I may be wrong. But I'm sure you can make an 'opening' yourself.

That being said, the fight does have 'downtime'. When he is...well...down. At that time it's all about barraging him with hits which I'm sure you can do with your eyes closed like most experienced players would in-between their cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

Not to mention Rathalos EX is not a real Extreme Trial as it only allows for light parties of four players, the EX in the name feels really loose!...

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It is a very much 'real' extreme. The fact that it have only four people makes it even more extreme, not less.

The reason why there are parties of eight in extreme trials is because Naoki Yoshida thinks that an extreme trial with only four people WILL BE TOO DIFFICULT due to a single mistake of the healer causing an unrecoverable wipe. This battle is very much like that, except for the fact that the auto-revival and potions makes everyone a self-sufficient, decreasing that risk to a point.


Also, a difficult four-man content is what the players asked and what the developers (as I said above) did NOT want to do. So this being a four-man is the players victory. Saying that it's not a real extreme for that is ignorant of what extreme means.

Hey I find the 3 death limit pretty Extreme myself, considering how much of a d**k he can be if he start focusing a single player for a long time.

No glow please, its a rathalos not an elder dragon :-(.

Just sayin' after 3 down with a classic team (2 dps + 1 heal + 1 tank) we manage to see a chest with poogie and orchestrion scroll so the mount may be in it too so the "50 down to get the mount" may become "wow that floor kisser got the mount OMG".

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Originally Posted by kikix12

If the fight doesn't offer downtime and you need it, make your own. I don't think people will worry too much if you will run around for a second or two to blink like mad, just so you 'dodge' his attacks without even knowing they are coming. So yes. I may be missing something

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Well, like I explained it is a personal problem.

I have issues with my eyes sometimes and constantly staring tires me badly. I understand what you mean, but I'm also not the type to just stop attacking.

I always want to do my best even if it is a bit taxing on me so I likely won't be farming it as much since it is just how I am that I would stare like that so I can keep attacking ;-;

It shows the weaknesses of hard four man content, unfortunately. Tanks outclass any DPS job in it since they can absorb hits much better, and there is no hard enrage. I feel the healer has the highest burden in the first part of the fight, due to the high outgoing damage and the need to watch other players, health, and mob mechanics. Next would be melee, then ranged dps, then tanks. The carting mechanic is the only way it remains playable. Imagine if the single healer couldn't cart back.

The dodging is all right, but as someone said earlier, it can make for a tiring fight depending on the job. I don't particularly find it all that fun to do, and am a little annoyed at them gating half the rewards behind the ex version. I would like special events to be fun things players do together, not things that cause people to backbite or be at odds with each other, and hard level content like this is more work than fun for me.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

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whoa. whoa. wait a moment. The armor isn't ugly. yes, the female set leaves something to be desired, but the Male Top is very nice.

I don't want it to glow, i don't think it would look good with a glow.

However, the fact that it's 4 man and not 8 man ups the difficulty level and I enjoy it. I've gone into 8man stuff, gotten frustrated and not gone back for months. This? we laughed, we focused, we hissed and spat, but it wasn't as frustrating as one would think because we started trying to figure out the tells and we eventually did. we learned mechanics and we're a lot more ready to go in again.

i think the fight is quite fun, however the latency i have difficulties with when it comes to dodging is mainly a poor consequence from being from the UK on balmung, however a bit of distance and some pre-emptive movement helps.

the main thing i think SE will take note of however is the fact people are disrecarging DPS classes from a chance of farming, i remember with Ramuh ex the old titan tank strat was hot fixed out after a few days,

but either way i am sat with 3 scales + while most want tanks waiting for that one party that wants DPS outside of raid ilvl.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Well, like I explained it is a personal problem.

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I understand that. People that have jobs that demand the use of computers, people with dry eyes, people that spend a lot of their free time in front of a TV or monitor or simply people that were a long time in strong sunlight. There are many reasons why someone may have issues with need for prolonged focus and there is no reason why anyone should see problem because of them trying to somehow mitigate that while still having fun.

That's why I suggested a way to try and circumvent that. And few seconds here or there really should not make a difference, except in the really close matches. Wanting to be at your best for a team is commendable (and something that is way too rare in MMO's nowadays), but there is a point where gain from forcing yourself is not worth the price. And you may end up being forced to blink if the problem, whatever is its source, will suddenly build up mid-fight. I know that I do bring myself to a state where I blink like crazy or even have to close my eyes for a second or two (not related to Rathalos or the game at all), so I do know the backlash you may end up having (again...depends on what is the actual reason).

You'll do what you want in the end, that's fine. I just suggested something that you may or may not have considered to ease that issue.

I did the fight yesterday made second phase before people had to leave. One seriously random element I noticed and not sure how it happen but Garula at one point one shotted the tank from 60k hp to zero. Tank was in defensives stance with one dps on Rath's back, I was healing the dps at the time the tank got hit. I was watching both hp bars at the time and the tank without a doubt got one shotted.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

I understand that. People that have jobs that demand the use of computers, people with dry eyes
You'll do what you want in the end, that's fine. I just suggested something that you may or may not have considered to ease that issue.

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Yeah, the having a job with computers and also dry eyes are the roots of my eye problems.

I appreciate the suggestion for sure. I understand you were trying to help, don't worry.

I just don't know if I could stop myself from doing my habitual behavior.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I did the fight yesterday made second phase before people had to leave. One seriously random element I noticed and not sure how it happen but Garula at one point one shotted the tank from 60k hp to zero. Tank was in defensives stance with one dps on Rath's back, I was healing the dps at the time the tank got hit. I was watching both hp bars at the time and the tank without a doubt got one shotted.

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The Garula does Heave twice pretty close together and it hits pretty hard/is a wide frontal cleave. (Just 1 of them almost 1 shots non tanks) They might not have used a defensive cooldown.

The combat feels a bit too fast paced for our current GCD system and the amount of movement that is required. It is terribly melee unfriendly and the 3 death limit is just… NO!

I can see the meta quickly becoming 3 tanks and 1 healer. As a tank, I can take a hit and only loose 10%, a melee that was with me took the exact same hit and lost 95% of their HP. This fight doesn't feel balanced at all.

Might be cause I play tank as a main but my biggest gripe right now is that as a melee several of the stuns feel unavoidable if you don't just happen to be in the right place at the right time, the spin attack especially. Spin attack stun locks you down cause you are not quite on his toes just righ then the charge hits you and stuns you again then your hit a third time by something else.

Now imagine if its 8 man instead of 4 man with 3 k.o. Rule...

Sounds impossible ....

If this is an experiment to see if they can really change things up... I would consider it a failed experiment.

I would rather unsub than play a game that is like this.

I love the cross over. I don't mind Ex but it's clear that the Monster Hunter World mechanics don't translate that well for FF XIV. A lot of the players really suck at dodging that tail and the 3 KO penalty (like in MHW) is really punishing. Basically I never had this much trouble with High Rank Rathalos in MHW than I do with the FF XIV version. The mechanics don't cross over well. Maybe reduce the hit box because I've seen Rathalos do the tail sweep but hit our poor bard who was clearly far enough away. Also melee need to stop sticking to his butt. Stick to the side!

Wait. Isnt this what we want? A fight thats actually hard? We been asking for harder 4 mans for years. I say more of this please. It just sucks players are cheesing it.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

If this is an experiment to see if they can really change things up... I would consider it a failed experiment.

I would rather unsub than play a game that is like this.

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ok seeya

legit though, the fight actually introduces some sort of difficulty that isn't just mechanics for once. it isn't difficult if you know how to use your brain, but for others it apparently is

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Originally Posted by Zale

ok seeya

legit though, the fight actually introduces some sort of difficulty that isn't just mechanics for once. it isn't difficult if you know how to use your brain, but for others it apparently is

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It's one of the easiest Extreme fights in the game (if not the easiest), people just can't handle it when the actually need to look at the boss and not a cast bar. He's very slow and the only thing difficult about it is that it's putting more reliance on people to actually move than healers just dragging their corpse through.

I hope more fights like this are introduced, sans no healing because I would like to see traditional comps back.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

It's one of the easiest Extreme fights in the game (if not the easiest), people just can't handle it when the actually need to look at the boss and not a cast bar. He's very slow and the only thing difficult about it is that it's putting more reliance on people to actually move than healers just dragging their corpse through.

I hope more fights like this are introduced, sans no healing because I would like to see traditional comps back.

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wholeheartedly agree, i'd love to see more fights like this, along with more mechanics introduced in the fights as well. the fight is very easy, just gotta see who he's facing and winding up his animations for, and move, if you're ranged. for melee i hear you can just stand under him -- so it is easily achievable once people have an idea of how he works

Give us Nergigante!

Well, here's some tips for people struggling:

As a general rule, Rathalos is easiest to avoid at melee range. It might be habit for ranged, casters or healers to be far away, but you actually make it much harder on yourself.

First Phase
- Rathalos's upper left side is safest to stand (near his face, near the wing tip). This avoids his tail sweep and you're far away enough from the bite that you won't be hit.
- The bite attack has a hitbox on the tail (seen a lot of ranged get clipped by this).
- First set of adds don't need to be picked up, grab the Coeurl and DPS it down. No one likes dealing with crackle hiss or whatever it's called in this fight.
- Put fireballs on adds and bait Rathalos toward adds; everything he does damages them. This lets you continue to focus on Rathalos.
- Large healing when adds pop up may cause them to make a run straight for your healer; if this happens, grab them and keep them near Rathalos so his attacks will still hit them.

Second Phase
- Never stand in front of Rathalos, even if you're at ranged. This makes Rathalos take an extra moment to turn before he will do his dive into poison claw.
- Rathalos always changes his target to the person he will attack (the name that pops up next this his, AKA the target's target). This is especially useful to see who exactly he is targeting for poison claw.
- Melee range is still the best to avoid his attacks; keep in mind the poison claw definitely feels "fatter" on his right.
- We had tank take their fireballs alone; they came and stacked with everyone else's.
- Healer should be pro-active with Esunas; a DPS can survive poison claw if it gets removed ASAP. Would recommend removing Healer DoT and one DPS's DoT before the second fireball. On second, recommend removing Healer DoT and the DPS with 2 stacks of DoT. If SCH with Selene, wait and group remove after 3rd fireball while still removing DoTs mentioned here.
- LB only when Rathalos is down; it's the difference of 8% damage done or 3% (something along those lines).
- Save LB for Rathalos, not the tail. Saving all of your CDs for the tail will take it off fine enough.
- GCD hits fill Rathalos's down meter. (Thanks to Rowde for sharing this information~)

Bonus tip:
- Can mash while stunned to reduce your stun timer, much like in Monster Hunter.

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Originally Posted by ko_

Wait. Isnt this what we want? A fight thats actually hard? We been asking for harder 4 mans for years. I say more of this please. It just sucks players are cheesing it.

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I don't think many people wanted this, especially as a special event. It's too punishing for most people; you can each make one mistake and end the run, and a healer mistake can snowball into multiple. Most of my tries have ended in the thirty minute mark simply because people get tired and make one or two mistakes, only to get one-shot for them. I've melded vit, and rath's rush and resulting poison still can ko me.

It relies on the player perfectly playing a long fight with significant randomness and a faster pace than some ex stuff. If it's what hard 4-mans will look like, I don't blame people for not wanting to touch them.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I don't think many people wanted this, especially as a special event. It's too punishing for most people; you can each make one mistake and end the run, and a healer mistake can snowball into multiple. Most of my tries have ended in the thirty minute mark simply because people get tired and make one or two mistakes, only to get one-shot for them. I've melded vit, and rath's rush and resulting poison still can ko me.

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Maybe. The groups I've played with have enjoyed it and want more like this. I thought this was what people wanted. Least as far as harder content. Difficulty is a hard thing to scale tho, even harder when your base is as large as xivs.

Ok, my problem isn't that "the fight is too hard". Actually mechanic-wise it is pretty simple. I can see what he is gonna do and how to react to it. I have basically 3 problems i will name:

1. It is random. It is TOO random that he can kill me again after me spawning back instantly. It is too random that he can just attack same person 5 times. How the hell will we survive that if the person is hit in the first place? It does stun + poison. Basically you get hit, you die.

2. Its dive attack is too fast, at least for me. He turns me and comes at me. When i start running sideways, if i am not far away he always hits me.

3. This is the most bothersome for me. Camera angles. Idk if this is an issue on pc, but on ps4, i can't see boss's face when he is flying if i do not set my camera always. And like i said, he is fast. I really can't see sometimes who he is targeting, that's why i look at the agro bar. But some angles really obstruct my view as well so idk maybe don't put invisible walls in arena edges in a fight like this?

And it is easy to talk when you are tank tbh. There was a tank in our group, who got hit like 3-4 times but don't die ofc, but we (i, healer and dps) die, so he kept "wtf dudes, are you stupid" etc. Try doing this fight as a esuna bot or melee, and then say "oh i cleared this 65 times". Then i will know there is something wrong with me after 3 years of healing.

Personally love this fight, as a mh fan it did kinda deliver ... well cept that we have no "dodge iframes".

Its like every other ex primal ... once you get it ... You get it. Mobility is key and being quick to run.

A few things make the fight lengths easier. 3 tanks and a heal forgive a lot of mistakes and potential deaths, there are 2 dps checks and neither of them is tight.

Also tanks with cds can eat the stacks solo and healat the end with a potion. This has the benefit of only 1 burn target also ppl dont tunnel vision and only focus on stack while dropping dps and you are not stack which means avoiding poison dive after is easier.

Once you can read the tells a normal party can easily kill it as well. Sorry dps buddies, hope it doesn't become meta lol. Then again I remember light farming for anima and all the tanks that were locked out due to "we only want 1 tank".