My ideology behind parses is how to improve vs mechanics. What is your point? That some idiots use them as e-peen meters? That lasted very shortly in WoW and shouldn't be considered as a thing in FF14 at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
Want to know what really matters? Clearing 200 solo, clearing kefka god, etc...
That's when parses matter globally. The rest of the time they are an indicator of if you should read up on your class, learn about a boss fight or mechanics, etc...
You can clear most content with your thumb in a special place and people will usually not comment about it, if they do, you're either in a farm party - for which you should definitely know what the heck you're doing - or it's misplaced. Yet every opportunity of learning is on you.
If you're in a learning party, you should ask questions if you're not sure. If you're blind and ask nothing after 1-2 wipes, that's on you and you're wasting everyone's time.
There are legitimately very few occasions where it's on you but if you're in those situations, don't be the idiot.
Edit: again, if idiots keep teasing you about logs/meters, report them. Don't assume they're the only ones running them. Most run them for themselves.
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07-20-2018, 02:11 PMLazlo69
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07-20-2018, 02:43 PMJohnSealI think BIS it’s relevant for DPS but as healers I don’t need BIS. I don’t need it because I can do equally amazing with or without. I am not lazy and I play so many hours everyday but I won’t get obsessed for a specific gear because with the same amount of time I can gear up more classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra
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07-20-2018, 02:50 PMRognarB
responding to a bait thread
Parsing completely flipped around how I played the game. I'm a sam main and I thought myself hot shit when I was doing shinryu a couple of times and could do v2s until 4.2 rolled out and decided to parse myself for the kicks of it.
First thing I realised was how shit I was and I needed to improve.
I had to completely remake my build, look up bis guides and why such items are needed.
Not only I had to revisit my opener but my whole damn approach to my rotation and make use of Hagakure to spit out more Shinten than whats humanly possible.
It took me a whole 2 months to spin myself around.
And today I've beaten everything short of UwU (because no statics), have ascended to bis and I have purple across the board for Sigma Savage.
And I could keep track of my skill and gear progress tru all this process, which was encouraging enough on its own.
And it also gives me the ability to pick and chose my teammates in PF so I dont run into grade A shitters/trap parties as often now that I have an OBJECTIVE measure of skill.
in short: Parsing is totally rad and only smelly greys would disagree -
07-20-2018, 02:52 PMHyoMinParkBut BiS is not pointless. What you’re saying here doesn’t solidify your statement of it being pointless. Better gear = better stats (main and substats) = better heals (if you actually know how to heal) = better DPS. Same for tanks (minus the healing aspect...unless you’re a WAR).Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
You shouldn’t have made your troll attempt so obvious. Better luck next time, I guess. -
07-20-2018, 02:53 PMKaivaCYou say that while having half of the BiS gear already and mostly 370 gear save for your Tsuki weapon...Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
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07-20-2018, 02:56 PMJohnSeal
[QUOTE=SargentToughie;4729796]I would absolutely love to see you prove that.
I've got data and statistics to back up my performance on various jobs in the game
I don’t care about logs at all and I don’t think it’s fair to classify player and their abilities but their logs! That’s my point, and the parses create an hostile environment in the entire community. Because for your own gain player are damaging the entire team. I am against the ideology of parses! -
07-20-2018, 02:56 PMConsurgens
The issue is not parser, but it's users. ACT and FFlogs are perfect examples of great tools that are poorly utilized. This is generally not a problem in statics and other closed groups, but on the other hand, I've been noticing some issues regarding it's usage in PF.
As someone who pugs 100% of end-game content (except Ultimate), I can say with certain experience that there is a FFlogs culture slowly growing in pugs... but in the flawed, selfish way. I've had a number of cases where players either die on purpose, refuse to accept raises or overall force a wipe because they died early to an accident and their DPS dropped like rock. It's usually very subtle but you can notice patterns (why is the person typing asking for a reset but not accepting the raise?) This leads to a somewhat stressful atmosphere where it seems everyone is out for themselves rather than working as a team. As a tank, I've lost count of times I've died to basic attacks from bosses even with Rampart + TBN + Grit on, because my healers are busy refreshing their DoTs and are usually the ones who post the run's numbers on FFlogs (if they get a good number, naturally).
Thankfully, those unfortunate cases are still a rarity compared to smooth runs where the tank is willing to go tank stance to alleviate the healers or the healer is willing to hard cast some heals because someone messed up - accidents happen after all, specially in groups with little coordination like pugs; but I do worry that such selfish culture expands. I'm grateful for the current difficulty of Savage raiding because it allowed the growth of a healthy (numerically speaking) PF raiding scene for those of us who dislike/can't find static groups, but at the same time, said playerbase still haven't adapted to actual raiding maturity, such as teamwork, adaptation, patience, self-criticism etc.
Does this mean parsers should be controlled or banned? No. Unfortunately, the pug life is the equivalent of a wild west, no man's land. As someone already mentioned in this thread, your best bet is creating your own group and hope that such behavior does not expand. -
07-20-2018, 02:59 PMHyoMinParkI wonder how you came across said data. :thinking:Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
Logs clearly show ability; any raider worth their salt — or anyone who knows how to properly read a log in general — can see that.Quote:
I don’t care about logs at all and I don’t think it’s fair to classify player and their abilities but their logs! That’s my point, and the parses create an hostile environment in the entire community. Because for your own gain player are damaging the entire team. I am against the ideology of parses!
Logs also show a lack of ability. -
07-20-2018, 03:05 PMFredco191
PSHH! YOU-
DAMN IT!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
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07-20-2018, 03:07 PMshibeouya
I agree that parsing is the worst thing that happened to the game.
I can't even count the number of parties I've been in where a healer just lets people die because MUH DPS. This kind of behavior is directly tied to parsers. I've seen statics disband because of this, several times.
Sure it can be used to improve, but at the same time it's not available to console players so it's pretty unfair to a good chunk of the community.
People just look at parses out of context and treat it as an absolute measure of skill - which it really isn't. It's just a lazy and quick way to get a vague measure of one's ability.
Parsers are the reason I stopped raiding seriously a while back, and given what I've been hearing lately I'm glad I'm no longer doing it.
Parsers themselves are a good idea, but too easy to abuse and misuse, you absolutely positively can't have a single number to judge someone's ability in complex fights, yet it seems most people just look at that one number and call it a day.
I found that a great way to weed out the trash is to hide your logs - most players won't care, and only the kind of toxic elitist who looks at logs in absolute will ask about it, in which case it saves me time as I know I have no interest playing with these people :) Thankfully it's pretty rare, but still happens once in a while. -
07-20-2018, 03:19 PMKaivaCRiddle me this - if your group wipes to an enrage multiple times, how do you tell who is holding the group back if no parsers are used? Sure...deaths are a good indicator, but say that there were no deaths (going for an extreme, but not uncommon scenario here, as is the case during the first couple of weeks of a new tier). It won't be as simple as saying 'pick it up DPS'. In the interest of helping someone out so they can clear as a group and not have to back out of the instance, how do you figure out who is holding the party back?Quote:
Originally Posted by shibeouya
Believe it or not, not everybody who shows an interest in your logs is out to get you and ridicule you. Not all parsing players are toxic. Speaking of which...
Toxic elitist this, toxic elitist that - I feel like people just love to put a label on the entire raiding community for little reason because of terrible PUGs that they continually run across. Although I do not raid currently, I have rarely run into toxic elitists, and all my raiding was done in PUGs. Look my logs up if you wish, they haven't changed since May when I last raided - with the numbers that I used to pull, I still did not run into these horror stories that you and others continually claim to keep running into due to this so-called selfish mentality. If anything, the issues that tended to kill parties was players who couldn't even clear the easier parts of some fights. Like handling the ghosts that tether to them in V5S, or making it past Virus in V7S.
Maybe y'all just had crappy luck. Would be nice if you stop labeling the raiding community, especially those who do parse, as toxic. Or better yet, maybe you just need to pick your PFs better.
Or even better, grow up and understand that bad apples do not spoil the whole bunch.
I know this isn't part of my conversation, but wow...how little you understand about parsers, and really, logs in general. The things you claim that logs don't show, such as mistakes, cool downs, healing - the logs show all of that information. The fact that you actually typed that up shows how very little you understand the tools that you are rallying against. Lagging is a different matter, and if the player who has bad internet can't speak up and say that they are experiencing lag, like oh so many other people do as a courtesy to their fellow players, then the problem is that player.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
Before you start accusing a tool of being a problem, maybe understand how it actually works first? Because it's starting to become apparent that you really don't fully understand parsers or logs. -
07-20-2018, 03:21 PMSigma-AstraBIS is relevant for healers because it's increasing your MP, vitality, and other main and sub stats. As a player who plays so many hours everyday, you'd know this, but clearly, you're just looking to troll this entire forum tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
I'd like to see you do "equally amazing" with minimum ilvl on Nael. If you're not trying or at least making the attempt at getting better gear for your MAIN class, which is HEALER, then yes, you are a lazy player and clearly one of the toxic and poor players you're belittling in your opening post.
There's no excuse, the game makes it so easy, even for casual players, to have decent gear like Tsuki weapons and mendacity tome gear. No excuse, whatsoever.
Not to mention that your lodestone page says otherwise as well, i365 weapon and i370 gear on SCH? Diamond pieces too? If you're going to troll, at least don't leave behind incriminating evidence of it being so poorly thought out. -
07-20-2018, 03:22 PMDuskane
I don't care if people parse,
But i do care when somone using parse gets somone kicked because they are doing low dps in a roulette. -
07-20-2018, 03:30 PMJohnSealThe parses are not specific and tell you enough about each run! In a healer parse you don’t see how many DPS makes mistakes and require you to manually heal them, they don’t say if tanks use cool downs or not, if your healer partner refuse to heal because focus on DPS or if you lagged because your internet provider is bad lolQuote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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07-20-2018, 03:33 PMSigma-Astra
Guys, let's all just jump ship, this is a bad thread and the TC doesn't deserve anymore attention than they're getting at this point. This is kind of a pointless discussion.
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07-20-2018, 03:36 PMHyoMinParkThey may not show lag, but they will show all the other things if you know where to look.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
It’s called the “Replay” feature. In addition to that, you can search through the myriad of tabs provided on the certain website everyone here loves to hate, and find time-stamps of when and where every skill was used. Sounds like you just don’t know how to use the site or even how to properly read logs, if I’m being honest.
I mean, the icing on the cake is that they probably do parse... yet they have made a thread saying it’s destroying the game. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra
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07-20-2018, 03:41 PMSigma-AstraJust check the lodestone, Hyo, and you'll probably realize that they do, I mean...ain't no way that they don't, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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07-20-2018, 03:42 PMHyoMinParkOh, I know. ^^ I’m already aware they’re trolling—it only took the “I’m amazing!” comments to show me that lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra
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07-20-2018, 03:53 PMShurrikhan
If anything, ubiquitous use of parsers would probably do the opposite. If the parsers provided even more information as to provide a more intuitive or accurate idea of one's performance at a glance, all the better, but it's already a fair sight better than going without a parser, especially if by choice.
Informedness breeds accountability, and their combination breeds actionable responsibility, which in turn tends to produce improvements to performance approaching that of more informed, skilled, and responsible players, which in turn reduces skill-gap and allows more players to partake in the same content.
Would not a community actually able -- in truth, not merely on assumption from intentional negligence and self-blinding -- to all perform decently in at least Extreme Primal encounters create a less divided, less divisive, and less "toxic" experience therein?
The only "destructive" result of parsing we have right now is the slight overemphasis on personal damage vs. clear time in fflog records, whereby meta compositions are favored more than they ought to be because of the dps percentiles they grant to each player parsed, while the same actual rDPS if fed by "selfish" dps would score more poorly even at the same clear time.
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07-20-2018, 03:56 PMAmeliaVervesdoubtQuote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
I like how you are judging parsers and people using them while you obviously don't know how they work and/or how they are used in the higher percentage raiding scene. :) While I agree people might move out of their way and ignore mechanics or greed to get out that last GCD this is by far not that dramatic. Ok, maybe the party wipes, well, shit happens. Just stand up, shake off the dust and try again. People are salty and toxic even without parses, hell they even are without any real reason to begin with!
You say you only want to have fun in the game.. well then... just have fun? If you meet such people then just shrug, leave the party and join another one or create one yourself. ö.ö Why even letting these people get on your nerves in the first place. Just move on.
I would say he/she is not trolling but maybe just butthurt bc one or multiple partys refused to do content with the person?Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
Tbf this is not unlikely on Chaos, when doing weekly savage runs or ex primal farms a hand full of people tend to check the logs of people joining their PFs when tehy have the time (if groups are filling slowly for example) and I've seen it before that people got removed or partys got disbanded before even filling up. It's really rare, but it happens.
While I don't really support something like this it's really nothing you can do something about. It's 100% up to the party leader to decide who he wants to play with. Hell, he can even kick you from the party for playing the wrong race and that is totally legit. -
07-20-2018, 04:04 PMSargentToughieNo way, man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
Only the TOXIC ELITISTS use parsers as weapons to brutally assault the poor, unsuspecting INNOCENT CASUAL players that get trapped in their parties totally by accident. All it does is enforce a DPS META that is DESTROYING THE GAME.
Accountability and transparency would absolutely rip the game asunder. -
07-20-2018, 04:07 PMCoupain
I m not here to say if parse is good or not but just to ask a question :
When parse didnt exist in the first Coil of Bahamut for exemple, was raiding fun ? was community nicer and more friendly when new content release ? was people use cooldown to win the fight and help people or people prefer use cooldown to make great numbers ? was healing fun and worth ? Was tanking be a real tank and not be cut by a tank buster ?
When parse appears and be popular in Alexander savage gordias what happened ?
To meditate ( and sorry for my english) -
07-20-2018, 04:12 PMSigma-AstraThey've got Sigma Savage gear on, at least up to Guardian because of the pants. They'd be trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves
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07-20-2018, 04:16 PMSargentToughieI don't know if this question is a hypothetical or not but I'm going to answer it anyway:Quote:
Originally Posted by Coupain
In coil, ACT most definitely still existed. Usage of it was actually the reason the devs had to come back around and nerf Ninja: because the playerbase found a rotation that was stronger than the devs originally intended. DPS was still fairly heavily pushed across the board, but people simply had less tools to easily do so. Scholar was absolutely broken that raid tier because lustrate did %HP restoration, so they basically had 100% cleric stance uptime while the WHM took more a 'main healer' role and spammed heals on the rest of the party. It was a very different game, but optimized decently. Tanks wore fending gear, but it was more because nobody knew any better than out of necessity with tank busters. Funny story, actually. Despite having Hallowed Ground, PLD was often the offtank because it had Sword Oath, and lost more damage in tank stance than WAR did. WAR was the stronger MT after they uberbuffed it, because of how absolutely bonkers Inner Beast was. Took 2 expansions for PLD to get a tool that good.
Gordias Savage came out and changed everything.
It wasn't so much ACT that did it, as that had been around since basically the beginning of the game. It was just that Gordias was so substantially harder than anything that the game had ever experienced prior (or since, IMO) that it basically shattered the raid community. The people that stuck around through Gordias came out the other side completely different, as Gordias simply didn't allow for the lack of optimization that Coil did. Tanks needed to start wearing STR gear to push higher numbers because the enrage timers were so insane (added note here: the added HP wasn't needed for the relatively predictable tank busters, so long as CDs were managed properly. This was also the start of tanks swapping to use invulns, and the rise of Holmgang as the best thing ever), healer DPS turned from an optional bonus thing that the (nerfed) Scholar did to a team duty where both healers flip/flopped OGCDs and regens to keep the party alive while cranking out hate. DPS rotations became substantially more tight and precise. Simply put, Gordias made the top level players a hell of a lot better at the game than they were previously, and everybody just kind of followed suit from there.
And, all these years later, we're still seeing the fallout from it. The game is just more 'figured out' now than it was in ARR. -
07-20-2018, 04:17 PMAmeliaVervesWell, you can get kicked out of partys even tho you have the clears and therefore be butthurt. ^^' Same as you can clear content without parsing yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra
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07-20-2018, 04:25 PMHyoMinParkQuote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
With comments like this, seems pretty trolly to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
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07-20-2018, 04:27 PMraerae
im a expert players
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07-20-2018, 04:35 PMUltima
I am a expert players
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07-20-2018, 04:38 PMJohnSeal
Look my logs up if you wish, they haven\\\\\\'t changed since May when I last raided - with the numbers that I used to pull, I still did not run into these horror stories that you and others continually claim to keep running into due to this so-called selfish mentality. If anything, the issues that tended to kill parties was players who couldn\\\\\\'t even clear the easier parts of some fights. Like handling the ghosts that tether to them in V5S, or making it past Virus in V7S.
Maybe y\\\\\\'all just had crappy luck. Would be nice if you stop labeling the raiding community, especially those who do parse, as toxic. Or better yet, maybe you just need to pick your PFs better.
Or even better, grow up and understand that bad apples do not spoil the whole bunch.
I know this isn\\\\\\'t part of my conversation, but wow...how little you understand about parsers, and really, logs in general. The things you claim that logs don\\\\\\'t show, such as mistakes, cool downs, healing - the logs show all of that information. The fact that you actually typed that up shows how very little you understand the tools that you are rallying against. Lagging is a different matter, and if the player who has bad internet can\\\\\\'t speak up and say that they are experiencing lag, like oh so many other people do as a courtesy to their fellow players, then the problem is that player.
Before you start accusing a tool of being a problem, maybe understand how it actually works first? Because it\\\\\\'s starting to become apparent that you really don\\\\\\'t fully understand parsers or logs.[/QUOTE]
My point is that people think to be better of others JUST because of their logs! A orange log healer player is not better than a green healers but it’s what people think ! Plus most of orange log players including DPS are playing in static and with the advance of discord, the help each other, buff each other and respect each other. On PF there are mostly greedy player that only care about them self that’s why parses are ruining most of player game-life. As healer I am exhausted of wipe on contents because DPS greed! Wipe three times in O7S at Biblio stage because a DRG greed, it damage 7 ppl, to waste cool downs on ppl hit by missiles it suck because they greed. In mostly all occasions MCH refuses to refresh or purposely not dodge because can’t move during the opener it’s disrespectful for all of the others. The examples are many others.. -
07-20-2018, 04:43 PMAmeliaVervesIsn't it... rather... uhm... greedy players ruining your game-life instead of the parser? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
I would suggest you to play some MCH on level 70 then you might see and understand why they are not moving during the opener. ^^ Bc they literally can't. I would rather call it disrespectful of the healers to not simply cast a prepull shield and put a single HoT on the MCH, just in case they get hit. Noone looses anything. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
I am a healer myself, rather experienced I would say while not a pro and I support the MCHs having the opportunity to pull out their opener properly.
:o
oof, yeah, I know what you mean I tried to be nice and understanding, I guess. ^^'Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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07-20-2018, 04:45 PMShurrikhanYeah, those greedy players expecting us to pull our own weight. The gall of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves
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07-20-2018, 04:46 PMJohnSealErgo, ppl that enjoy parses run and are relying on numbers so much should join and play with ppl that think like them. The weekly clear parties are not the place! Weekly clear, 2 chest is self-explanatory: we want our book and our drops! The run need to be smooth, ppl nice and TEAM PLAYERS that’s what most of raiders don’t get :(Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves
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07-20-2018, 04:49 PMUltimaSo, make your own PF or join a FC or make friends with like-minded people instead of making blanket statements about how "evil parsers" are destroying the community and how those "evil mean raiders" just don't "understand". But of course, that'd imply you want things to improve, but this is a troll thread, my mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
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07-20-2018, 04:50 PMSargentToughieNo... Most of us do totally get it. If a Dragoon can't do a mechanic properly and continually causes an add to spawn, they deserve to be kicked.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
Stop confusing a bad player for a bad community, and stop blaming the tool for it. -
07-20-2018, 04:53 PMAwhaWhile not extremely common, FFLogs has caused some issues for a few members in our FC. Granted, most of it was due to our own ignorance as to how FFLogs work, but at the time we did not know that FFLogs were opt-out instead of in. We were under the impression that even if our friends performance was sub-par due to certain limitations would could still use our own data to improve our play. Sadly we found out after some drama that other players were able to see their logs. Though I am sure it is rare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockette
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07-20-2018, 04:54 PMHyoMinParkIn all fairness, the same can literally be said to you and what you want. Play with likeminded people in pre-mades instead of complaining when randoms don't fit your specific playstyle. PF is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're going to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
The irony of all your complaints is that Raiders DO get them. We just don't blame tools for people being lazy and/or inherently bad. Just like we don't blame them for players being "toxic". -
07-20-2018, 04:54 PMAmeliaVervesWell, most of "those people" do it like that. But sometimes they have to move out of their way and join a weekly PF group to get their clears bc their very own static is not doing savage anymore but focussing on ultimate instead... talking out of experience here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
And tbf, more than often I wanted to smash my head on the table when I was in one of those groups where people were underperforming like hell, DPSwise (enrage in o6s lel, haven't seen it since week 1 and then like 5 times a few weeks ago) but also have no clue how to use their skills and how to handle mechanics.
That has 0 to do with a parser. It is their very own mistake to underperfom. It is up to them to be "bad" players and it won't change anything if parsers were to disappear.
Furthermore, having purple/orange logs with every DPS in one party literally means they are Teamplayers. Bc they worked together and aligned their buffs so that everyone benefits from it and is able to pull out those numbers. They work with their healers and tanks as well to find ways and mitigation so they can push their numbers as well. Maybe you should try to find a static and find out what "proper" raiding really means. -
07-20-2018, 04:55 PMKaivaCNo...it couldn't be because some players are just jerks in general. No, it is totally because of parsers and absolutely nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
With the exception of padding...technically they are if this was a competition, but rating healers are unusual in the sense that one healer could take on the full load of healing while the other strictly does DPS. This isn't a really accurate post - a better measurement for healers would be how little they overheal.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
Which would still exist even without parsers, because the job of DPS players is...what was it again? Oh right - to dish out DPS!Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
These sound like very specific examples. I promise you that even without parsers, there would still be people who wait til the last possible second to lock the panels that should have been pre-assigned before the pull if the party isn't built as 4 melee, 4 ranged. DPS players get greedy at times - that's not a symptom of parser mentality. More often than not, they're either trying to get that last proc/combo hit in, finishing a cast, applying a DoT, trying not to miss losing out on a weaponskill due to rotation timing, etc. You don't need a parser to tell you when a player is slacking or slow.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
Another specific example. Are you sure the issue isn't that you are just playing with the same players who make the same bad mistakes? This just seems like not only do you not know how parsers/logs work, but now you are showing that you don't understand MCH either.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
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07-20-2018, 05:17 PMKDSilver
Most of what I've read in the OP has nothing to do with parsers itself.
You're basically asking the suppression of a useful tool for the sake of nothing.
You should do some resarch and talk with people before makings wrong assumption like this. -
07-20-2018, 05:20 PMSargentToughieI mean, OP is pretty obviously a troll. I think that most of the other raiders in this thread, myself included, are just here for a combination of laughs and not allowing such a hilariously outrageous lie to go unchecked, thus further tarnishing our already Boogeyman-esque reputation on this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by KDSilver
OP wasn't even being discreet. Bragging about how great they were, the "a great players" line... They're basically a bargain bin version of Kisai.