Paladin. I dont feel I'm actually playing a Paladin.

On top of everything Touch said, in Final Fantasy Paladins don't tend to carry very religous tones in general. The most well known one, Cecil, carries none at all and would for sure be closer being the "royal official" type given what his standing was before defecting from the Baron kingdom, not to mention him becoming the King of Baron by the end.

As I said before as well they Paladins tend to be very similar to the Knight job in Final Fantasy, which given that its called Knight in other versions still holds true here.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

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In the Final Fantasy series, Knight and Paladin are pretty much synonymous and in many if not most cases, were the same thing just Knight being the predominant name in Japanese and Paladin being used in other translations.

However, no matter the name assigned to the class, the concept was always supposed to be the same, that of a good and virtuous protector. An idealized image of the "knight in shining armor" concept. Even their "holy" abilities and power weren't often tied directly anything directly to anything religious or things like that but was merely a differentiation to bolster the concept of them being the "virtuous and good" side of the moral dichotomy coin. The defender instead of the destroyer. The iconic abilities associated with the class such as Cover and healing spells exemplify that.

Even when you look at the best known example of a Paladin in the Final Fantasy series, Cecil, you can see that idea of Paladin being the defender in his transition from being a Dark Knight to a Paladin. Cecil's realization that he is being used as a tool of destruction sets off a chain of events in which he decides that he must leave behind his past of destruction and become a defender, culminating in his symbolic transition from Dark Knight to Paladin.

It is this idea of the stalwart and virtuous defender that was the conceptual linchpin of the FF14 Paladin job, and if iirc that has been stated on multiple occasions by Yoshi-P.

Now if we were talking 2.X and maybe even 3.X Paladin, yeah I could see and agree with the sentiment that the feel of "holy knight/holy defender" wasn't being represented quite enough with the job, but that was a fairly common sentiment that resulted in SE doubling down on the "holy" aspect for PLD resulting in what we have now.

With 4.X, I would say that PLD now has enough "holy" in it to give Robin's dialogue from the Adam West Batman a run for it's money.

Eh, only in skills. PLD job storyline got nothin in 4.0. Was really glad to see the GLD story return though!

Just notice that nobody ever said PLD is bad or his actions are bad (except for shield oath and Flash). As I said at the first post, I think PLD is a little above the other 2 tanks.

While I do agree that PLD doesn't need to be a holy warrior after so many nice replies with history, Final Fantasy research and evidences, I don't like the "agressive" job it has become. To me, Dark Knight is the Paladin FF XIV lacks, that's why I've decided to switch my main class.

My biggest concern is that the job has no internal mechanic like DRK, DRG and many other jobs. It's simple and has no identity, because the only two things that are exclusive to the job, which are cover and intervention, are all about pressing one button each.

I think that if PLD gets behind WAR/DRK one day, people will notice how bad the job design is. Until then, lets enjoy the PLD/WAR train, yay...

This already happened in 3.X though. PLD was behind both WAR and DRK from the start, and while some more minor buffs helped it catch up to DRK it was too late to change majority opinion on the job. Both the 2.0 and 3.0 job storyline were also considered lackluster ESPECIALLY the 3.0 one. 4.0 really helped the job, even briefly being THE best of the three tanks and only getting minor nerfs compared to the somewhat bigger buffs the other two tanks got. PLD also became more "holy" if you want to put it that way in 4.0 compared to 2.0 and 3.0. The only thing really missing is the PLD storyline...but again it was a good GLD storyline atleast which is again a step up form 3.0.

As far as identity goes its THE mitigation tank. The change to allow them to block magic alone helped alot on this front, and PLDs have the most options to protect teammates from incoming damage.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

This already happened in 3.X...

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So PLD is at its best right now huh, I hit lvl 70 with rabanastre launch so I didn't knew what the job was like before that.

I've generated some confusion so I came up with this example to show how I see the job:

Let's use DRG as an example.
Remove all jump actions.
Remove Fang and Claw.
Remove Wheeling Trust.
Remove Blood of the Dragon
Now give cover and intervention to it.
Congratulations, you have built a FF XIV Paladin!

Can you see what I have done? I removed everything unique from the DRG and left its base class actions. It is empty with 2 additional buttons to push when needed. That is basically what Paladin is right now.
Some people may like it because it is simple, but I don't. All classes have something that makes them fun to play, I just hope to see PLD with something similar so I can enjoy it once again.

*Note that I said SIMPLE, not easy.

I believe whatever you want for PLD is simply not something you will ever get. Nor do I think anything I will say will make any sort of change in that mindset.

I'm out.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

I believe whatever you want for PLD is simply not something you will ever get. Nor do I think anything I will say will make any sort of change in that mindset.

I'm out.

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I agree with everything you said. Not until next expansion. We will see.

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Originally Posted by VCassara

Can you see what I have done? I removed everything unique from the DRG and left its base class actions. It is empty with 2 additional buttons to push when needed. That is basically what Paladin is right now.

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Sorry, but what you did is just prove that you don't know how to use a Paladin.
Because your "built" PLD doesn't have Sheltron to have instant mitigation whenever it wants, nor Divine Veil and Passage of Arms to protect the party from big hits, nor Clemency to heal others, nor FoF, Requiescat and Holy Spirit to maintain its Physical/Magical rotation, nor Shield Bash to have a GCD stun, nor Hallowed Ground to cheese lots of mechanics...and, on top of that, he doesn't have a shield for the best passive mitigation.

The Paladin/Knight identity through FF series begins with Cover, and XIV's iteration expanded on this greatly with it being the most well versed tank in group mitigations. It might be more understandable if you stated what you think a Knight/Paladin's identity should be based around in your eyes because while you've claimed a lack of identity you never really put forward attributes you think that it should have.

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Originally Posted by Cybylt

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This. You mentioned how DRG would be nothing without its jumps and BotD, what do you think pld is according to what you think PLD in FF is?

It has a degree of holy magic/abilities (Holy Spirit, Requiescat and Royal Authority to a degree, Veil, Clemency), the ability to protect the others (intervention, passage, veil, clemency to save others), and strong mitigation to reflect the job's tanky nature in the series. It also hits quite a bit, since Paladins in FF were no slouches in damage.

If you're saying the job is missing more interaction with its oath, then I agree and disagee. I think oath should be tied to more defensive abilities ( Veil and Passage for example) but even then you can throw interventions, pair sheltron wuth cds for tankbusters, or even use it to fish swipes.

So again, what's missing in your opinion?

I'd like a leg lock magic skill for PLD. You can lock mobs in place for a certain time while you avoid AOEs, pull the stray ones a bit out of reach off the healer, etc. just so it's smoother for everyone.

[QUOTE=Reynhart;4697051....[/QUOTE]

No it proves that you can't or I can't write, probably both. I was obviously talking about the core of the job and used DRG as a example to show how PLD design is bad. I removed 100% os dragons unique mechanics and it became very close to Paladin. Doesn't matter how hard you try, you can't deny it.

I've already mentioned what I want to enjoy my Paladin. I want goring blade removed,flash revamp, more magic/holy sword actions, holy spirit removed, a shield oath revamp because it is broken and a more meaningful gauge to the job. I dont' expect to any changes before thr next expansion, i just felt someone needed to say how bad the pld design is.

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Originally Posted by VCassara

I removed 100% os dragons unique mechanics and it became very close to Paladin.

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That's the problem, you didn't. By simply adding Cover and Intervention to LNC, you came miles away from what a PLD can do in a fight.

Basically, your problem is "I don't like what PLD can do so it can't do anything".

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Originally Posted by VCassara

I've already mentioned what I want to enjoy my Paladin. I want goring blade removed, flash revamp, more magic/holy sword actions, holy spirit removed, a shield oath revamp because it is broken and a more meaningful gauge to the job.

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Have you considered that perhaps you might be the problem ? If you want that much changes, then you're obviously not playing the right job. You just remind me of all those people that asked for DRK to be changed into a DPS instead of a tank.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

That's the problem, you didn't. By simply adding Cover and Intervention to LNC, you came miles away from what a PLD can do in a fight.

Basically, your problem is "I don't like what PLD can do so it can't do anything".

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Sorry but what is your point? I'm talking about pld design not what it can do.

You're thinking like "omg this is so good they shouldn't touch the job" and i'm thinking "this job is so good but it doesnt have any interesting mechanics, i'm just pressing buttons over and over again and refreshing my dot".
People showed me that I was wrong about paladin being a holy/magic knight, but my point that its design is bad still stands and you won't change my opinion with hallowed ground and sheltron.

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Originally Posted by VCassara

"i'm just pressing buttons over and over again and refreshing my dot".

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This sentence describes just about any job in the game. Again, PLD's skills have a lot of strategic uses, you just need to know when to use them. If you don't, then the problem is not the job.

just throwing this outs there ( yes i am an XI player yes I'm suggesting this) why not change flash to a single target and make the blind be actualy usefull in raids as part of paladin kit for an actual 5 second blind per cast but a long enuff recast to negate the diminishing returns from resist. would that be better ? <besides i want whm to gain banish over stone >

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Originally Posted by VCassara

. It is empty with 2 additional buttons to push when needed. That is basically what Paladin is right now.

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No, it is not.
Paladins have a vast array of defensive actions they can use which are unique to them. Many of those are of little us in solo play, true, but the FFXIV Paladin is foremost a tank with several of its actions aimed at helpig a group.

You may not like the Paladin as it is right now, but it certainly has a unique feel and identity to it - even if you can't see it.

In short, you have showed nothing except that you do not understand Paladins.

I think you need to play a new class. The Lore of Paladin fits what is actually supposed to be because in Japan the Paladin is called a Knight as there is no word for Paladin in Japanese. Blame the translation team for your issues.
Secondly Paladins in Final Fantasy are Melee Tank Class with small magical inclination to white magic (healing and holy spells). They support the party as the primary body for dmg and self sustain with heals and mitigation. Cecil FFIV, the Paladin Class from FFIII and FFV as well as Steiner from FFXI, and the Paladin Class from FF tactics all have abilities that reflect this ideology. In tactic the Paladin only had 2 holy attacks and a multitude of defensive abilities while useing swords and greatsword to deal massive physical dmg and some of the best weapons in that game came from there.

You claim PLD has to many buttons but that's the jobs true identity. It is the one job in the game that can do everything but raise a player, and I would love to see that ability added as well. A Paladin is the last line of defense for a party, they are the ones who support the party in any way possible. Viel, Passage of Arms, Cover all sacrifice something from the PLD to make sure someone else doesn't die. You complain about oath gauge being useless but it actually was an improvement over sheltron's 30sec CD. You can use two sheltrons in a row now if u save the gauge and it takes roughly 25-30 sec to generate 50 gauge in sword or as fast as 3 gcds or 9 second in shield.

You cannot tie DPS action to a PLD's oath in any way shape or form or people will not use the defnsive actions for the gauge. A PLD job is not to deal DMG, they are a support Tank designed to defend the party. Anything to do with the oath gauge should be tied to mitgating damage for yourself or the party.

Oaths (and Grit) have always been a hot topic amoungst the community because of the massive DPS loss by useing, however they are there in part for learning and for heavy mitigation when needed. Shield oath is effectivly an on demand CD and SE does not expect you to sit an entire fight in it, ever. Its a supplement skill for when shit goes wrong. However is should be noted that a WAR loses a shit ton of dmg potential in defiance in comparison to PLD and DRK who gain night unbreakable defense when they activate shield oath. I took Golden bahamut 5th ahkmorn solo and survived in shield in part to good healing timings and a shit ton of CD's but that first hit would have killed me if not for that 20% bonus from shield. Sword oath is nothing more than a DPS stance for paladin which didnt really need anything offensively, our base GCD attacks have the highest potency among the three tanks.

In that, we are sword and board fighters first and formost and all of our skills beyond rage of halone are learned after becoming a PLD. Circle of Scorn is a GLD ability not a PLD one. Everythign else fits in with PLD as being a defender of the people, a parties wall in the face of danger. WE ARE NOT HOLY KNIGHTS. This taken directly from FFXIV description of Paladin

Paladins are stalwart defenders who seek to protect their comrades. These loyal guardians are skilled with sword and shield, channeling upon holy power to stand as unbreakable walls for their allies, and symbolizes hope among their people.

They Channel Holy power in the following skills
Oaths
Spirits Within (this skill is dumb by the way, it needs to be changed)
Hallowed Ground
Divine Viel
Clemency
Intervention
Holy Spirit
Requiscat
Passage of Arms

Holy power is not something that is designed to kill. WHM the pinacle of the so call holy power have 2 skills that deal dmg based on holy energy, Assize and Holy itself. Everything else is there for healing and recovery.
A Paladin has 3 skills that are holy based and 2 of them deal physical dmg. Spirit and Requiscat, Holy Spirit is our only magic skill and is actually weaker than goring blades massive 670 total potency more if u hit it under buffs.

I think your issue with PLD has more to do with the fact you cant effectively use all the skills or are overwhelmed by them and you want it to be some kinda hard hitting mage tank which it isnt. Paladin will always be a physical defensive wall first magic secondary. Also with the changes to WAR, PLD are effectively the most difficult Tank to play optimally compared to both DRK and WAR not in DPS but in skill usage outside of GCD.

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Originally Posted by Sipherous

...

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When I'm replying a thread, I take my time and I read everything before the reply so I won't make what you did. You just replied to my mistake and I've already said many times I was wrong about PLD being holy/magic.

Once again, I need to play a new class and I already did. I'm playing DRK as a main character now, but you didn't read that, did you? ;)

I don't know what to say aboyt shield oath... Again, you are doing exactly what other people did, you're justifying its design by saying how good it is for something. I don't care about that, I think that an action that you use once or twice during a lifetime is a design flaw. They punish you for using it and you get nothing in return but more mitigation and that's not needed 99% of the time.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

This sentence describes just about any job in the game. Again, PLD's skills have a lot of strategic uses, you just need to know when to use them. If you don't, then the problem is not the job.

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You start failing to have a discussion when you start to go personal like "You can't do this or that". This is not the reason I started this discussion and I'm not interested in discussing with people like you, because it doesn't matter how many times I say that you are right or wrong about something, you can't accept what I think.
We are one step away from calling each other to Wolves Den and see who knows more about PLD.

You can keep using your so called hard working and complex strategy, I see no problem with that, on the other hand I will be improving my DRK rotation ;).

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Originally Posted by VCassara

You start failing to have a discussion when you start to go personal like "You can't do this or that".

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You failed much earlier when you try to put as fact that "PLD is only Cover and Intervention"

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Originally Posted by VCassara

You can keep using your so called hard working and complex strategy, I see no problem with that, on the other hand I will be improving my DRK rotation ;).

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Are you really trying to find complexity in "DRK's rotation" ? That's hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

You failed much earlier when you try to put as fact that "PLD is only Cover and Intervention"

Are you really trying to find complexity in "DRK's rotation" ? That's hilarious.

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I'll ask you again, what is your point? What are you trying to achieve?

I said that PLD core mechanics are very similar to a DRG when you remove all unique actions from DRG.
You said that I was miles away from what a PLD can do in a fight.

Now what? Your arguments are weak, you can't change my opinion by saying "you're wrong" and nothing more.

I don't have to answer that because I never said I was looking for complexity in "DRK rotation" nor gave reason to think so. I've changed to DRK, because as I've already mentioned:
1 - It is the Paladin I was looking for. You know, sacrifice to protect other people...
2 - I feel like a Dark Knight when playing it. DA mechanics with TBN and BW doesnt make me feel im playing a lancer with just a few more buttons to push.

The fault is in the meta I think,

No more CC mechanics, solo tank strats, etc. old pvp pld was the most tanky feels xiv has had imo

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Originally Posted by VCassara

Now what? Your arguments are weak, you can't change my opinion by saying "you're wrong" and nothing more.

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I've detailed all the skills that your "PLD very similar to DRG" would lack. If at that point, you aren't able to see how wrong you are, I really can't do more...

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Originally Posted by VCassara

1 - It is the Paladin I was looking for. You know, sacrifice to protect other people...

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Sacrifice ? What sacrifice ? PLD is the only job that can take hits in place of others, that's your sacrifice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VCassara

2 - I feel like a Dark Knight when playing it. DA mechanics with TBN and BW doesnt make me feel im playing a lancer with just a few more buttons to push.

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Funny, considering you make a fuss of how PLD is not like the Paladin you're used to in other games, yet, you feel you are a DRK when its play style is nothing like every other Dark Knights of previous Final Fantasies.

At that point, you're just making things up...

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Originally Posted by Sipherous

I think you need to play a new class. The Lore of Paladin fits what is actually supposed to be because in Japan the Paladin is called a Knight as there is no word for Paladin in Japanese. Blame the translation team for your issues.

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I'm not the OP, but I have some thoughts on this topic as well. While it's true the JP version of the job is Knight, it's still pretty clear though that the job is intended as a "Holy Knight" archetype.You can see it in the translation teams decision to go with Paladin as the naming convention, and you can see it in the job design teams decision in:

Requiescat
Holy Spirit
Clemency
Divine Veil
Royal Authority
Passage of Arms

If they were strictly a Knight, they'd be limited to physical actions only with no magical support/abilities/GFX. I'd be VERY inclined to agree that perhaps the design intent was that you began as a Knight, but the job has grown to encompass Holy Knight-ish skills as expansions have progressed.

Using references such as Beatrix (FF9) and Agrias (FFT) they are very easy identifiers for current PLD inspiration. Beatrix is equipped with incredibly powerful White Magic, but doesn't have a ton of sustainability with it (echoes Clemency). Shock is almost a direct 1:1 with Holy Spirit in animation and effect (high burst magic damage). Consider that Requiescat is quite literally Lightning Stab (or Thunder Slash).

I'm just not sold you can blanket statement "WE'RE NOT HOLY KNIGHTS" when there's clearly mixed evidence on the topic.

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You claim PLD has to many buttons but that's the jobs true identity. It is the one job in the game that can do everything but raise a player, and I would love to see that ability added as well. A Paladin is the last line of defense for a party, they are the ones who support the party in any way possible. Viel, Passage of Arms, Cover all sacrifice something from the PLD to make sure someone else doesn't die. You complain about oath gauge being useless but it actually was an improvement over sheltron's 30sec CD. You can use two sheltrons in a row now if u save the gauge and it takes roughly 25-30 sec to generate 50 gauge in sword or as fast as 3 gcds or 9 second in shield.

You cannot tie DPS action to a PLD's oath in any way shape or form or people will not use the defnsive actions for the gauge. A PLD job is not to deal DMG, they are a support Tank designed to defend the party. Anything to do with the oath gauge should be tied to mitgating damage for yourself or the party.

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Speaking personally - I think PLD does have way too many useless buttons. I see a ton of room for improvement there. I also would love for PLD to be the only tank with a raise option. They'd need to better design tanks though for it not to be too strong though.

Just because Sheltron is better now (and it is), doesn't absolve the Oath gauge of being one of the worst, if not the worst; iterations of the "job gauge" system. You say a PLD's job isn't to deal damage (hint you're 100% wrong. Everyone job is to deal damage, including PLD. You know this though, not sure why you're saying that).

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Sword oath is nothing more than a DPS stance for paladin which didnt really need anything offensively, our base GCD attacks have the highest potency among the three tanks.

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PLD is tuned fine. I won't argue with that. It's just boring as sin, has a ton of bloat, and I wouldn't be opposed to seeing it gain a little more Holy Knight love than it currently has.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

Royal Authority

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That's the 3rd time someone mentioned it, and it still bugs me...why are people seeing anything holy in Royal Authority ?

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

If they were strictly a Knight, they'd be limited to physical actions only with no magical support/abilities/GFX.

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From Final Fantasy earliest incarnations, if they had only physical actions, they'd be Warriors. The first Knights were exactly that, Warriors who can cast White Magic.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

why are people seeing anything holy in Royal Authority ?

From Final Fantasy earliest incarnations, if they had only physical actions, they'd be Warriors. The first Knights were exactly that, Warriors who can cast White Magic.

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RA, graphically, is definitely not a basic attack. It is a flourish of colorful light and energy bursting out from the strike. It looks 100% more Holy than other skills IMO (and clearly others too).

It's been a staggeringly long time since I did anything with the earliest FF's. I won't deny that based on early iterations it's clear that Knight is functionally identical to the modern day concept of Paladin (across various media forms). I'd actually be curious to know if the word Paladin actually exists in the Japanese language/culture.

To me looking at all media forms, not just FF, it's pretty clear that PLD is much more akin to a Holy Knight, than a standard Knight, again IMO.

PLD is called Knight in the Japanese version, hence the limited references to PLD being a holy warrior in FFXIV.

Cecil in FF4 was called a Paridin.
Holy Knights in FFT were hori naito (Holy Knight)
PLD in FFXI and FFXIV were naito (Knight)

If anything the ff 14 pld has been morphed a little closer to the FF 11/series one, at start it is literally just the "stalwart defender" archetype. So now its closer the the FF "style" series wise than it was for example during 1.0 and 2.0 imo.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

RA, graphically, is definitely not a basic attack.

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To be fair, most WS aren't either :p

Paladin is an exclusively western European idea. You could just as easily imagine some small bit American game developer in the 80s making a 2 handed armored sword knight style class in a game and poorly translating it in JP to Samurai. It's not ACTUALLY a samurai, just an armored warrior who uses two handed blades which is close enough in the not well researched 80s video game company.

The whole knight vs paladin thing is just a confusion of west and eastern sensibilities. The 'Holy Paladin' that uses actual magic is an extremely new idea. Paladins of old aren't known to have magic healing and smiting powers. The knight+Holy Cleric mage hybrid paladin is actually a D&D invention. D&D was a huge foundation for the American videogame industry and has been carried on ever since in western games and maintained into today in things like the warcraft series. Historical paladins weren't casting flash and holy on the undead. They were warriors fighting for 'good' causes and 'good' values in old western Europe means religious values, thus 'holy' causes, not actual wizards in armor. It wasn't until later when you add in wizards, magic, light vs dark tropes in D&D that you get warriors harnessing light to banish the darkness. Without those recent western additions, its just a guy in armor hacking at stuff.

Combat mages in armor calling down the divine to smite their enemies and protect their friends is an extremely modern, western idea from the depths of American nerdism.

While I agree with most of what's been said in this thread so far, I do believe Paladin could benefit from some integrated throwbacks to the rest of the series in 5.0, but this applies to every class pretty much. For example, Shock/Stock Break type thing for AoE could be cool, maybe a fun little nod to Knights always allowing the use of Two-handed by having some ability that makes them use their sword with both hands but nullifies shield use for 10s or something. I don't particularly think they've been wildly off with their design of Paladin so far though.

Edit: Oh kickass, I can see why Requiescat might be a Thunder Slash type thing. I get Holy Spirit kinda fulfilling the role of Beatrix/Steiner's Shock, but it still looks pretty...tepid. Frankly Zenos uses the kinda Shock I'd imagine from the likes of General Leo.

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Originally Posted by Valdegarde

While I agree with most of what's been said in this thread so far, I do believe Paladin could benefit from some integrated throwbacks to the rest of the series in 5.0, but this applies to every class pretty much. For example, Shock/Stock Break type thing for AoE could be cool, maybe a fun little nod to Knights always allowing the use of Two-handed by having some ability that makes them use their sword with both hands but nullifies shield use for 10s or something. I don't particularly think they've been wildly off with their design of Paladin so far though.

Edit: Oh kickass, I can see why Requiescat might be a Thunder Slash type thing. I get Holy Spirit kinda fulfilling the role of Beatrix/Steiner's Shock, but it still looks pretty...tepid. Frankly Zenos uses the kinda Shock I'd imagine from the likes of General Leo.

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The problem with more 'throwbacks' is that paladin has been all over the map in the 20+ years in FF. Add to that the western audience wanting 'their' version of pld that is shown in western games/media like WoW etc. Are we doing Agrias FFT paladin who used flashy, elaborate 'sword art' type of magic to damage and enfeeble? Are we talking about FFXI pld who primarily used flash and cure spells to augment a Knight base (sword n board, cover)? Etc. None of which are really in line with the western WoW style paladin that is the modern form of Americanized paladins.

You could argue that the current paladin already is extremely paladin-ish. The most consistent paladin abilities in FF are Cover, Sword N Board, heavy armor knight. How the 'holy' aspect is shown has varied greatly. You could argue the traditional FF paladin is just the aforementioned Knight style character with rudimentary white magic. Specifically basic heals and the Holy line of spells (banish, holy, etc). FFXI, FFXIV, FF1, and a number of other entries really cover that very, very well. Theres something of a fissure where SE sometimes makes paladins through holy sword skills like Agrias that focus less on traditional white magic and instead 'channel' magic through their swords. This is the pld we don't have. But that doesn't mean pld isn't a pld. It is just the more traditional SE paladin design of knight+rudimentary cures and holy spells. But if you fell in love with 'sword art' paladin for lack of a better term, then this wont fit as well. But it's not really an incorrect paladin design.

All of it, haha. All classes have been a mishmash of different themes from different Final Fantasies, Paladin is no exception. It's got a similar fighting stance as Tidus, abilities from Beatrix/Steiner, Cover from Cecil, Goring Blade from Warrior of Light, etc. I don't see it as a problem that they're all over the map.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

To be fair, most WS aren't either :p

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Subjectively speaking:

Fast Blade
Savage Blade
Riot Blade
Goring Blade
Total Eclipse
Shield Bash
Shield Lob

Are all pretty generic skills, unlike RA.

I'll concede that Rage of Halone is pretty "holyish" though since it unleashes an energy wave in its GFX.

I think the job is fine and has a good mix of abilities. The job quests kinda suck but they aren't without basis. If you want a good idea of where the job comes from you should read up on Arthurian legend and the Song of Roland. They're not so much miracle workers as they are devout knights who sometimes experience miracles because of their righteousness.

This thread is weird.

One thing that has to be remembered here is that you are not even really a PLD anyway, at least, not a 'true' Eorzean PLD; you're still just a GLA wearing a fancy crystal that allows you to quickly learn some special sword and shield skills held by the Sultansworn Elite, the real PLDs (many of your skills are still just GLA skills, like Rage of Halone).

True PLDs in Eorzea are knights who serve as the personal guard of the Sultan/Sultana of Ul'dah and are thus bound to protecting the Ul'dahan monarchy. You're just an adventurer who has excelled in everything the Colosseum has taught you and thus having exhausted all the opportunities the GLA's Guild can teach you you're sent to learn more from the Sultansworn (who were opening up their skills and knowledge to outsiders for the first time), thus establishing yourself as a 'free PLD'. And there is nothing wrong with PLD being depicted in this way.

The FF series has always depicted it's own mythology and systems in different ways with each title, and this is no different. PLDs here simply are not the DnD style "holy knights/clerics" that you may have expected. In FFXIV you're basically just a swellsword who has learned some very fancy shield and sword attacks from actual knights, more a knight errant than an actual knight bound to service of a noble - as Jenlyns put it in the very first PLD quest in the game, "a free paladin has no master...", that "You swear fealty not to a lord, but to yourself- you are nobility amongst adventurers."

Really, you are a PLD in spirit, not physically/legally (at least, not in terms of servitude to the Sultana), you're an adventurer who serves the greater cause of Hydaelyn and protecting all on Her, a far greater calling than defending Ul'dah's decaying monarchy. Being a PLD in the FF series is more than just wielding a sword and shield and chucking fancy holy elemental spells around, it's about defending and protecting others, and that is the core of the Job here.

I don't think the whole "mage in plate" thing is D&D. Maybe a little from particular 4th edition builds or weird char-op variants. I think that's more WoW's Holy Paladin, which actually is/was a full time caster. And 4E was a direct response to WoW anyway, they saw raid night as competing with game night. Otherwise D&D paladins generally are front line fighters.

Paladins have flashy skills in offline games where there's no enmity/tanking system. Final Fantasy Dimensions, Paladin was a DPS class, Ivory Slash and Wide Slash were extremely powerful skills, FFIX Beatrix had some of the most powerful skills, and FFT Holy Knights were a powerhouse special class with instant skills with long range and no MP cost that could never be dodged or evaded, that inflicted debuffs too.