All Day Maintenance and Compensation: My Thoughts

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...716040e34a5b6/

They do compensate when it is justified. 24 hour maintenance to give you new content is not justification for compensation

You are complaining about losing one day of play time every 3-6 months!!! You have gone be on reaching for something to complain about it, too jumping 100ft into the air for one.

Am I reading this right or are you seriously complaining about losing a day of play time every 3-4 months? Get a life dude.

No clue why they need to have 24 hour maintenance here when another mmo I play had a 10gb new expansion and it was down for only 4 hours then back up again. Only thing can think of is they don't have the staffing to have them shorter for big patches and expansions. Which seems wrong when other mmo I play is a f2p one. Doesn't bug me I will just play another game instead that day. Now if it was more than 24 hours like 48+ hours I would complain then. I would miss bunch of dailies.

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Originally Posted by Usho

I feel a bit of hypocrisy in your post and I sense mixed feelings about the matter despite you saying "I don't personally think it's a big deal".


I'm just gonna quote what you just said because it's basically what I was getting at:

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There's no hypocrisy, and your sense is mistaken. My comment about principle was in reference to your post, which clearly has absolutely no legal argument behind it, nor an argument that the situation is significantly onerous.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

If you really have a problem with it then start a petition to change the ToS. As it stands you accepted the terms in order to play the game. Now I certainly don't agree with companies that try to shoehorn in obscene stipulations into the ToS, and I'm always very careful to read them now just to make sure there is no tomfoolery being proposed. But that's kinda where it starts - with consumers actually reading the damn things and protesting them to be changed before agreement.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

When you made an account to play this game, you also agreed to the ToS as well and it's even stated in the ToS as someone else has pointed out. That's all there is to it. If you're complaining about something you've longed since agreed to now, SE is going to look at you with a canted head and just point you to the contract you willingly agreed to. They're not going to suddenly feel you've been "cheated".

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Duh? Injecting the ToS again distracts from the argument. The OP was not making a case about the ToS, nor indicating there was some legal wrong. Clearly the thrust of the argument was therefore about principle. Bringing up the ToS is akin to derailing the thread.

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Originally Posted by Usho

I feel a bit of hypocrisy in your post and I sense mixed feelings about the matter despite you saying "I don't personally think it's a big deal".


I'm just gonna quote what you just said because it's basically what I was getting at:

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When you sign up, you agree to this:

5. INTERRUPTION TO THE SERVICE
From time to time, in order to provide our customers with the optimal gaming experience, it is necessary for Square Enix to conduct routine maintenance on the computers and/or servers that support the Game. During these times, access to the Game or support services may be interrupted. Access may also be temporarily suspended in whole or in part, without notice, due to emergency repairs, fire, flood, explosion, war, strike, embargo, governmental action or failure to act, the act of any civil or military authority, act of God, or by any other causes beyond Square Enix's control, or any other reasons for which Square Enix, in its sole discretion, deems that temporary suspension is necessary. You acknowledge that disruptions of service may occur and waive any causes of action against Square Enix in any way arising from or related to any such disruptions of service.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

Duh? Injecting the ToS again distracts from the argument. The OP was not making a case about the ToS, nor indicating there was some legal wrong. Clearly the thrust of the argument was therefore about principle. Bringing up the ToS is akin to derailing the thread.

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It doesn't? When you agreed to the Terms of Service, you agreed that not only do you accept that a 24 hour maintenance period can virtually occur sometimes and that it's not the fault of SE, but you also agreed that they also don't owe you a dime on the principle of it. You can argue against it as much as you like, but there it is in writing. If anyone thinks making a forum topic about it now is going to change SE's stance on it, you're sadly being way too optimistic about it.

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You acknowledge that disruptions of service may occur and waive any causes of action against Square Enix in any way arising from or related to any such disruptions of service.

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Once you clicked that little button that says you've agreed to the ToS, you've essentially thrown out your rights to complain against it. The OP feels that they deserve a "free day of play" as a paying customer because of 24 hour maintenance and while SE has sometimes reimbursed us for such things when it was an emergency, they will not over scheduled content updates. There's never been a history of such a thing. That is the principle of the matter. You may not like it, but that portion of the ToS was explicitly designed to counter people like the OP.

It is not something that SE needs to compensate their subscribers for at all nor will it logically harm anyone to not play this game for one solid day and half of the time, who on earth would be playing this game for exactly 24 hours with no kind of rest, bathroom, social, or food breaks? That's extremely unhealthy. I've never known anyone to be playing this game straight for 24 hours.

If losing one day equals out towards a person feeling that they're not getting their money's worth, then unsubscribe and talk with your wallet. But, if you're still paying the sub fee while complaining, well.....

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Once you clicked that little button that says you've agreed to the ToS, you've essentially thrown out your rights to complain against it. The OP feels that they deserve a "free day of play" as a paying customer because of 24 hour maintenance and while SE has sometimes reimbursed us for such things when it was an emergency, they will not over scheduled content updates. There's never been a history of such a thing. That is the principle of the matter. You may not like it, but that portion of the ToS was explicitly designed to counter people like the OP.

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You throw out a right to legal recourse. That's why these agreements exist - not to restrict discussions about a given policy's fairness or properness on the forums. If the OP was suggesting that we sue SE, or that there's a legal case against them, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. They aren't. They're venting on a social platform about something they feel isn't a just practice. That's fine and dandy, and an entirely independent argument from the ToS.

That's why the appropriate response is to argue on the same grounds: principles / a sense of fairness. Even on those grounds, you'll know that I disagree with the OP. But discussion on those grounds is far more likely to be productive.

I'm really glad to see that every single respondent agrees this is an absolutely ridiculous request/demand.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

You throw out a right to legal recourse. That's why these agreements exist - not to restrict discussions about a given policy's fairness or properness on the forums. If the OP was suggesting that we sue SE, or that there's a legal case against them, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. They aren't. They're venting on a social platform about something they feel isn't a just practice. That's fine and dandy, and an entirely independent argument from the ToS.

That's why the appropriate response is to argue on the same grounds: principles / a sense of fairness. Even on those grounds, you'll know that I disagree with the OP. But discussion on those grounds is far more likely to be productive.

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Well, the OP may not have outright said to sue SE, but they have lamented that it's not a good business practice in their eyes alone, therefore questioning the legal intent and morality of the company itself and putting that into question. When you consider something an unjust practice, that generally means you find the business practice to either be shady or illegal in some way that goes against your own personal values and feelings.

A person who feels scorned by not being able to play during a 24 hour maintenance period, and then feeling as if money and playtime is being unjustly siphoned away from them, even after already agreeing to the terms set before them just seems like a rather silly debate. Even more so if said person is still paying a sub fee on top of their complaints. It looks more like a sense of "entitlement" when you see a person standing on a soap box venting that they're not getting what they paid for and yet they're still funneling money into the very same company that they feel spurned from, in my opinion.

To me, an unjust practice from SE would be charging us additional fees along with our subscription fees for content or things some or all of us would not want or use without notifying us directly. To put it into another perspective, similar towards the way cable companies like to tack on extra fees for channels you don't ever need nor want to the next bill hoping you don't notice these things. So, to put it plainly, if SE would suddenly charge all of us $10 extra dollars a month to keep the Eternal Bonding Ceremony running when not all of the players want such a thing would be something I'd consider an unjust practice.

But what the OP is addressing? No, not really since maintenance is something to be expected with any kind of MMO. I've been more upset over single player games that costs me $50 and ended up being completely terrible to me. (I'm looking at you Arc Rise Fantasia.)

Well, yeah it may suck to have 24 hours without an MMO you pay for... but at the same time, the 24 hours costs you very little money wise. It's not like they do these 24 hour maintenances every week or every other week, either, so it's really no problem at all. Do something else for that day. Play another game, make plans for that day, grocery shop, take a walk, garden, write poetry about how you feel, do something.



These twenty-four hours (5)
Have left me feeling quite sour (7)
So, I'll play Jenga (5)


(And before you refute hour and sour, they are considered monosyllabic as per various sources.)

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

When is this 24 hour maintainance going to take place?

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Next one should be in 3 1/2 month

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

Duh? Injecting the ToS again distracts from the argument. The OP was not making a case about the ToS, nor indicating there was some legal wrong. Clearly the thrust of the argument was therefore about principle. Bringing up the ToS is akin to derailing the thread.

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Respectfully, I think mentioning the ToS puts the OP's concern in proper context: it's strange to argue principle after entering into a contract.

To flip it around: If my monthly salaried employment contract has paid sick leave; I, not being a paragon of health, unfortunately take a day off for being sick every 3 - 6 months. I'd be equally aghast if my employer then came and argued that regardless of the legal contract the principle should be they only pay for my 'uptime'.

If my contract otherwise stipulated payment only for days worked, it'd be a given not get paid for sick days.

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Originally Posted by Usho

...stuff...

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Not to sound callous or anything, but when you've gone through a ~40 hour and a 45 day emergency maintenance on a game you thoroughly enjoy, 24 hours just doesn't seem like a big deal.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

The OP feels that they deserve a "free day of play" as a paying customer because of 24 hour maintenance and while SE has sometimes reimbursed us for such things when it was an emergency, they will not over scheduled content updates. There's never been a history of such a thing. That is the principle of the matter.

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This is the main point I think, outside of bringing up the ToS - we are giving a month+ notice when there is going to be a patch and associated maintenance. It's not like it just pops up out of the blue to ruin your day, we are made aware well in advance of scheduled maintenance.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

Yes, because I can just move my work days around to fit the game. Regardless of what the ToS say, it still sucks when the game is down for an entire day, especially if it happens to be your day off and you're stuck with nothing to do. Additionally, the fact that they have a 24 hours maintenance for every patch is a little excessive. Our servers at work can be done in 3-4 hours and they have massive amounts of data flowing through them at any given time. What he's asking for isn't that unreasonable. And even if it was, he hasn't said anything that deviates from the ToS agreement, i.e. legal action.

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That's a bit of a stretch. There have been (2) 24-hour maint so far this year, one for each major patch. Minor patches and hotfixes are usually completed overnight when most of NA is asleep.

Think of it like this. I schedule a vacation day off 1 month in advance. My day off comes around and work calls, needs me to come in because someone called in sick. Does that make me obligated to go in to work? No. I've already scheduled the day off and it was approved by management, technically it's not my problem. Same thing here. SE scheduled a day off a month in advance, but a few people in management apparently didn't get the memo and think they are being gypped out of a day's pay.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

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Yes, because I can just move my work days around to fit the game. Regardless of what the ToS say, it still sucks when the game is down for an entire day, especially if it happens to be your day off and you're stuck with nothing to do. Additionally, the fact that they have a 24 hours maintenance for every patch is a little excessive. Our servers at work can be done in 3-4 hours and they have massive amounts of data flowing through them at any given time. What he's asking for isn't that unreasonable. And even if it was, he hasn't said anything that deviates from the ToS agreement, i.e. legal action.

The OP is only whining because their plans probably canceled and got nothing to do. They got not games or the desire to go out cuz who knows.

I am sure that they don't say a thing when maint interrupt and bother other players with different timezone. The majority of people don't like to read the term of agreements a game imposes on its players. This is not a video game console. This is a MMO. Next time you play other MMO, go and read the term and conditions the MMO qill give youm

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Originally Posted by Usho

A Day, is a day that shouldn't be wasted either.


/2 cents

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Playing a video game all day isn't considered wasting that day?

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

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Doesn't change the fact that a 24 hour maintenance should be completely unnecessary for a patch. But I disagree with these work analogies. You're job provides you with paid days leave as terms of your contract/employment, and, if they try to call you in or deny your leave, and you refuse or just skip the day without permission, they can fire you for that. We don't have any recourse (nor should we, dear god). And as many people keep saying "hurr durr, it's just 1 day every 3+ months, get over it", so why is it so much to ask that SE grant us 2-3 free days of play per year in exchange for our continued money and support. And again, as many people said, it's about 50 cents a day, so SE would lose ~$1.50-$2.00 out of my $156 a year sub.

I'm not even necessarily saying I agree with OP, but I don't think his idea is as outlandish or absurd as many of these other dissenters would have you believe.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

And as many people keep saying "hurr durr, it's just 1 day every 3+ months, get over it", so why is it so much to ask that SE grant us 2-3 free days of play per year in exchange for our continued money and support. And again, as many people said, it's about 50 cents a day, so SE would lose ~$1.50-$2.00 out of my $156 a year sub.

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It's because maintenance is already part of your sub. And I don't mean in a monetary sense, I mean in a "we know these are going to happen" sense. To compensate for this, you have three choices: you can refund for the lost day, you can add a day to everyone's sub after each maintenance, or you can price the "refund"/lost day into the sub price. The last option is by far the simplest to implement, and in my view that makes it the best. So who's to say they haven't done this? How would you know, philosophically, whether your sub fee includes maintenance days or not? I mean, aside from them being explicitly in the terms of service.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

Doesn't change the fact that a 24 hour maintenance should be completely unnecessary for a patch.

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As stated by Yoshi personally in the live letter;

"This is yet another dense patch with a lot of moving parts, so we’ll be performing a 24-hour maintenance starting the day prior, on Monday, May 21".

So yes it was very necessary for it to take 24hrs. But you know the maintenance actually finished about 4-5hrs early so it wasn't even a whole day.

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Originally Posted by Usho

I don't agree with that. I'm paying to play the game, not to not play the game.

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Of course you are paying SE also to keep the game up and running and if they find a problem they have to solve it and they do so with a maintenance. So get over yourself and accept that this is a part of what you pay for.

People complain about problems/bugs but also complain when it gets fixed. What the hell?

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Originally Posted by Talraen

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Perhaps they have, although all that would require is them saying they have as there is no way to prove it, so not really the point. My point was, as I said, the OP's request is not that absurd.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

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Lacking the ability to do it efficiently and it being necessary are 2 different things. I work in tech, a 24 hour maintenance is enough to replace an entire server array for a few skilled technicians, depending on errors. Pushing a patch to the servers absolutely should not take 24 hours. Even if they finish early, most people probably aren't watching for the second the servers go up, so you can assume the average player planned around the maintenance window to the best of their ability.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

Lacking the ability to do it efficiently and it being necessary are 2 different things. I work in tech, a 24 hour maintenance is enough to replace an entire server array for a few skilled technicians, depending on errors. Pushing a patch to the servers absolutely should not take 24 hours. Even if they finish early, most people probably aren't watching for the second the servers go up, so you can assume the average player planned around the maintenance window to the best of their ability.

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The thing is that's not for you to say how long they need to take and what exactly they need to do. Yeah great you work in tech, but you don't hear SE coming and telling you how to do your job, how quickly and how long your downtime as to be, so you aren't really in a position to criticise another party on how to do their job when you don't actually know their own procedures, not to mention it's being done over multiple time zones that requires coordination.

SE gave 24hrs as a rough estimate and majority of the time state that completion is subject to change, so if players take advantage of an early finish great. If others wait for the time that was previously advertised that's up to them as well, but it was planned regardless.

Eh, I get one day off a week, and it can be a little frustrating when that one day is a 24-hour maintenance. I guess I just play csgo or something when that happens...

Yes, the work analogy was not my strongest. And perhaps exact laws vary by employer and possibly even state/country. But at any rate, I haven't seen anything to make me change my mind on the subject. I think it's unreasonable to demand compensation because the game has 99.8% uptime instead of 100%.

Not only is it beyond absurd - it's just plain petty.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

You throw out a right to legal recourse. That's why these agreements exist - not to restrict discussions about a given policy's fairness or properness on the forums. If the OP was suggesting that we sue SE, or that there's a legal case against them, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. They aren't. They're venting on a social platform about something they feel isn't a just practice. That's fine and dandy, and an entirely independent argument from the ToS.

That's why the appropriate response is to argue on the same grounds: principles / a sense of fairness. Even on those grounds, you'll know that I disagree with the OP. But discussion on those grounds is far more likely to be productive.

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It did seem to me you where giving views that conflict but now it makes sense. For me, with the ever increasing "time limited" bonuses and such, what I would like to see is some kind of leeway to meet all the deadlines.

For the maint itself, I am not sure. On the one hand they are keeping what they state in the tos, you still pay for the sub during maintenance and it should be expected. On the other hand, they could use PR brownie points given all the backlash they get. Not saying they should or required, but could be in their better interest to "give" something. I recently started play a f2p mobile game that gives out some "premium currency" sometimes "energy refilling" items, whenever it goes down for maintenance. (basically 3-10 USD of value) Once they gave a high amount of both for being down nearly 24 hours due to a bug. (more like 20 USD of value for this)

So just helps to have better pr I guess, but with the infrequency of them currently I am not personally bothered.

I will say this though and I think it echoed something you said in an earlier post. I do feel incompetence after you have the servers down for around 24 hours, have them up for 4 hrs or so, then have to take them down again. If you are going to have them down for 24 hrs, don't you think that is enough time to make sure it releases right? However, mistakes can be made i guess and it is better then them having us play on a buggy game for months (like how that retainer item count display bug went unchecked for so long, drove me nuts)

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Originally Posted by Kurando

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Actually, they probably remote manage the servers and require no physical contact at all. It's probably all done from Japan. The amount of data for the patches should not take 24 hours to upload. And they should have already been tested for stability on a test server, so that should require minimal time. But sure, we'll give that maybe it's a procedural issue.

And indeed, it was planned and that is SE's decision. However, the OP's wish that SE grant us a few measly days is not that outlandish. All the people against him look at it as if his request for these few days is totally absurd because "it's only 3-4 days a year get over it" and fail to see from the other side "it's only 3-4 days a year, would SE even notice this financially (probably not)". And that's what annoys me. and why I gave him a vote in favor. I don't particularly care either way, the 24 hr maintenances are definitely an inconvenience, but is that big a deal? However, everyone seems to see the company is greater than the consumer and I would argue the opposite is true

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

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I tend to agree that demanding compensation for the small amount of time lost is unnecessary. However I wouldn't consider it absurd or petty. You pay for a product and expect to get full access to the service.

You can just unsub for a while and take one of their free login campaigns (happens every patch it seems like) once a year. The last one was up to 96 hours, or 4 days. That's them giving you up to $2.00 right there!

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

However, everyone seems to see the company is greater than the consumer and I would argue the opposite is true

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No, but they have the leverage when they are the ones stipulating the terms required to use their product.

And keep in mind you are talking $3-4 for what, 100k players? Last census shows 500k+ active "characters", who knows actually how many players/service accounts that is. But that's gonna add up quick, and for what purpose? So you can feel good?

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

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They do indeed, but it doesn't mean that is a just or fair term, as Vhailor said.

The purpose of making your consumer feel like you care about them and their time, which is how you secure lifelong customers. If you assume $3 a person, which is high considering the numbers everyone keeps spitting out (.$50 a day for 3-4 days, $2 max), but we'll use your numbers. That's $1.5m out of $78m for the year. That's hardly breaking any bank for SE. But that does assume each person is active. I'm not even saying they should, I was basically just defending the OP from the rather rude naysayers, and pointing out that it really isn't that asinine.

I'm okay with it... so what if I can't play for one evening after I get home from work, I'll just do something else instead. This is what you sign up for when you play an online, everchanging game. There's going to be maintenance. If maintenance is unreasonably long (say, a few days) then I would expect them to compensate...but 24 hours, no. That's pretty standard.

Yeah, not only is this normal for FF14 its also normal for the majority of subscription based services that need regular maintenance. For example, the gym I go to, once a year for about a week and a half shuts the pools down for cleaning and maintenance and I don't get reimbursed for it.

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Originally Posted by Usho

One little gripe I have though is the all day (24 hour) maintenance that this game has. Coming from 10 years of playing Final Fantasy XI, the version updates (patches) we got, wither minor or major, only took maybe 1-2 hours tops. But with a new major patch in this game, the maintenances take 24 hours to

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I'm sorry but you are wearing rose tinted glasses when it came to 11 updates. Yes we did have 4-5 hour maintenance but it was also followed be another couple of 4-5 hours maintenance due to bugs etc. (I dont remember always getting 1-2 hour) Also some bugs stayed on that game for YEARS before they eventually fixed them due to no time.

As regards to 14, when we had the shorter maintenance's we had far more bugs and extra downtime. I'm happy with the way it is now 24hr, hotfixes and the odd random emergency fix. As regards to compensation it's stupid we get a working game that's compensation enough.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

Yes, because I can just move my work days around to fit the game. Regardless of what the ToS say, it still sucks when the game is down for an entire day, especially if it happens to be your day off and you're stuck with nothing to do. Additionally, the fact that they have a 24 hours maintenance for every patch is a little excessive. Our servers at work can be done in 3-4 hours and they have massive amounts of data flowing through them at any given time. What he's asking for isn't that unreasonable. And even if it was, he hasn't said anything that deviates from the ToS agreement, i.e. legal action.

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I never said re-arrange your work schedule. I said errands and chores. Surely you do housecleaning on occasion, and yard work/maintenance/repairs if you own your home? Go to the store to buy groceries and other supplies? There are a multitude of little maintenance things in our lives that we tend to do out of habit at certain times of the day/week but can easily be rescheduled when we know there's going to be a disruption to our regular routine in advance.

Yes, it sucks if the downtime coincides with a day off from work but welcome to being an adult where we've finally learned that things don't just magically happen the way we want just because we're adults even if that's what we imagined things to be like as children. We knew a month in advance that a major patch with extended maintenance would be coming in the second half of May. We knew 11 days in advance what the specific day would be. Those of us who have learned to be reasonable and responsible adults planned for it.

Any waste of time was due to your lack of responsible response to the scheduled downtime and thus your responsibility. It is not SE's responsibility nor is there any need for them to compensate us for it. If the server hardware blew up and we couldn't play for an extended period of time while they were getting the servers repaired, you might have an argument.

Remember you're throwing your temper tantrum over not being about to play a game for a single day. Think about that for a while. That should feel pretty darn embarrassing for an adult.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

I was basically just defending the OP from the rather rude naysayers, and pointing out that it really isn't that asinine.

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Actually...it is asinine. We where warned many days in advance. Told why and there is historical proof that this is SOP for SE's handling patches for this game. What's next? Major expansion launch (5.x) and we go down for 2 to 3 days and people are going to demand a month of subscription time? Yeah - Right. (Consider how rare it is in the first place)

I would rather they take the time they need to make sure the damn thing doesn't break as opposed to abruptly launching content and then having the servers go down again..and again..and again to get something right. Bad enough there's no "beta test" site to play with to test new content out like EVE Online does....so everything depends on them getting it right the first time. Even they have trouble with that (IE Emergency patch deployments)

Something that has been a recent thing with EVE Online (many false starts/issues lately)

Maybe you should take the time to consider SE's perspective in terms of deployment before you defend someone's utterly foolish request of compensation.

As I said before - it would be different if the game broke down after the maintenance and kept causing problems. Then you have grounds for it.

But without that....you got zero,nadda,zip.

And as its been said before, with plenty of warning, it comes down to the player to organize their time in their lives to do things. Asking to get paid for ignorance is not going to work here.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

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This is exactly the kind of rude retorts I was referencing. This holier than thou attitude. Just because you've learned "things don't always go your way" doesn't mean you can't endeavor to change them. No one is throwing a "temper tantrum, just suggesting that SE could compensate us, and perhaps should. But I'm sure you're right Mr. Adult, efforts be damned, we should just accept our lot and never utter suggestions to improve it.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

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No.... I'm quite certain they would ask for 3 days... But nice strawman anyhow. A full expansion is also somewhat different in that it's as much content as all 5 patches between and then some typically, so more understandable.

As for the rest, if they aren't testing their content on an in-house test server, they're doing it wrong. And no one is asking to be "paid" for ignorance. Again, you can't say anything without being rude. These forums truly are cancerous. Ignorance plays no factor, busy lives do. If the only day in a given week that you can play is taken up by a 24 hours maintenance, you're going to feel pretty bad about that. Many companies do things to support their customers in times of inconvenience. Mazda for example, if you don't live close to a dealer for a test-drive, they will ship one out to you in an effort to convince you to buy. Is this exceptionally profitable for them? No, but it shows they care about their customers. It is SE's decision in the end, but it's not wrong or outrageous to ask for something.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

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You're comparing a bloody car manufacturer/dealer to a video game.

One is a piece of equipment that is regulated by the government to meet safety standards and requires a license to drive. Not to mention far more likely to get people killed.
The other is a virtual game with virtual goods. If it goes down - oh... no game to play. Far likely not to put yourself in the hospital (ignoring the obvious)
I think we are done here if your going to make wholly ridiculous comparisons.

Let me know when you've arrived a rational part of reality and not your "straw-man" argumentation.

I am so glad that out of 8 pages of discussion only a couple of people are being petty enough to agree to this rubbish. This takes entitlement way pass the God level.

People complain about the silliest things sometimes.