N.American Ifrit Lag Makes it Unplayable

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Originally Posted by Yves

About the random spanws, 90% of the time it occurs when a player is dead. I am not sure why this is the case but it is (based on my observation.) From what I can gather, this may have something to do with the emnity mechanics and a dead body can cause random eruptions or "hax crax." In fact, I can't ever recall this happening when someone isn't dead.

And yes, like I said earlier, lag is an issue and shouldn't be - but it is. You can work around it. I also want to point out that someone mentioned the "corpse slide" - this is the truefire way of telling if someone did or did not die from lag. At the same time, even with lag you can do this fight enough to be able to counteract it via experience.

My best advice to players who are certain that the only limitation that is stopping them from victory is lag is this: get on mumble or skype or whatever else you have. This will almost always solve the problem. We have some LS members who are in the Middle East and had some struggles in their first attempt. We all got on a call and called out when to nuke and when to move and guess what? Easy wins. Just a suggestion.

Again, yes, it is a problem. No, it shouldn't be. Yes, you can counteract it.

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This^

No, the lag should not exist (to the extent that it does). No, the system is not perfect. Yes, it's a messed up piece of garbage. The simple reality is you need to adapt, incorporate, and overcome this inherent defect and play anticipating/assuming that it is there. It is the same as someone who drives to work every morning down a road with a giant pot-hole in it. No the pot-hole shouldn't be there but driving through it every day and messing up your car screaming "this should not be here" only hurts you. Learn to drive around it and maybe someday, to your surprise, it will be fixed, or maybe it will get larger in which case buy an SUV and drive on the grass.

im suffering from R0 >.<

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Originally Posted by Forerunner

Whats this? I can run back onto the crack and have the explosions not damage me because the server still thinks I'm outside of the explosions? HOW IS THIS NOT LAG.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/7...8180523174.gif

What am I reading?

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like i said it takes practice, dont expect to run right into the explosion and not get killed. when you see the explosion happen give it about 1 second and you can run in normally. the cracks will still be there but you can run on them.

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Originally Posted by Yves

About the random spanws, 90% of the time it occurs when a player is dead. I am not sure why this is the case but it is (based on my observation.) From what I can gather, this may have something to do with the emnity mechanics and a dead body can cause random eruptions or "hax crax." In fact, I can't ever recall this happening when someone isn't dead.

And yes, like I said earlier, lag is an issue and shouldn't be - but it is. You can work around it. I also want to point out that someone mentioned the "corpse slide" - this is the truefire way of telling if someone did or did not die from lag. At the same time, even with lag you can do this fight enough to be able to counteract it via experience.

My best advice to players who are certain that the only limitation that is stopping them from victory is lag is this: get on mumble or skype or whatever else you have. This will almost always solve the problem. We have some LS members who are in the Middle East and had some struggles in their first attempt. We all got on a call and called out when to nuke and when to move and guess what? Easy wins. Just a suggestion.

Again, yes, it is a problem. No, it shouldn't be. Yes, you can counteract it.

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its the enmity attached to that person still, if someone dies near tank then you may get cracks if that person had alot of hate. tank should be careful not to get into animation locks if this happens so he can avoid it.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

like i said it takes practice, dont expect to run right into the explosion and not get killed. when you see the explosion happen give it about 1 second and you can run in normally.

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It takes practice abusing the lag? Wow. Did you even read my post?
How HIGH do you even have to be... We are talking about the lag issues on Ifrit, your solution is to 'move quicker and use the lag to your advantage hurr'

Please, for the love of God SE, implement an intelligence test for eligibility to post on these forums. I don't know what will give me an anurism first, pure rage, or idiotic comments like this.

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Originally Posted by Forerunner

It takes practice abusing the lag? Wow. Did you even read my post?
How HIGH do you even have to be... We are talking about the lag issues on Ifrit, your solution is to 'move quicker and use the lag to your advantage hurr'

Please, for the love of God SE, implement an intelligence test for eligibility to post on these forums. I don't know what will give me an anurism first, pure rage, or idiotic comments like this.

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your the one crying about not being able to beat ifrit not me, i thought most members or Seriphm would have a little more self control then to start bashing someone on the forums for trying to help.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

your the one crying about not being able to beat ifrit not me

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Did I say I couldn't beat him? No.
Did you read my posts? No.

Look, in my hands, whats that? An Ifrit Weapon?

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2...1326558637.jpg

Why yes, I think it is. Why can't I hold all this truth?

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Originally Posted by Forerunner

It takes practice abusing the lag? Wow. Did you even read my post?
How HIGH do you even have to be... We are talking about the lag issues on Ifrit, your solution is to 'move quicker and use the lag to your advantage hurr'

Please, for the love of God SE, implement an intelligence test for eligibility to post on these forums. I don't know what will give me an anurism first, pure rage, or idiotic comments like this.

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He isn't saying it doesn't exist and, from what I can see, is trying to give you options to work within a broken system since there is no current solution outside of this. Being snarky doesn't help you. In reality, you are guilty of what you just accused him of. By that measure, according to your belief, you yourself should no longer be allowed to post here.

I can't think of a more idiotic example of lunacy then what you just did.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

i thought most members or Seriphm would have a little more self control then to start bashing someone on the forums for trying to help.

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Seraphim*

Why get them involved? This is between me, you and all the help you don't give. Just idiotic posts.

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Originally Posted by Yves

In reality, you are guilty of what you just accused him of.

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Yes, because when an eruption pops under my feet I don't run all the way across the instance and still get hit.

Lunacy.

Don't use abilities after the swipe and adjust your chat log to see Enemy TP moves and pt chat only. It's always someone trying to squeeze in another TP combo or spell after the swipe then comes the " wtf lag"

If you're animation locked when it starts it will hit you, wether it looks like youre on it or not. Since he gives a 3 sec warning before every TP, it's hardly a serious issue. Just takes a little getting used to

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Originally Posted by Forerunner

Seraphim*

Why get them involved? This is between me, you and all the help you don't give. Just idiotic posts.

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because you are representing that LS, you should try to control your anger. I respect them as a LS and dont think your representing them well, imo. Thats why i mentioned it.

edit: this is my last comment on this cause i don't really feel like arguing with you. my comment was for the 1 second lag that is common and easily dealt with, take it how ever you want.

also it was meant for NA players so i don't care where you live, this thread was for NA.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

edit: this is my last comment on this cause i don't really feel like arguing with you. my comment for for the 1 second lag that is common and easily dealt with, take it how ever you want.

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3 seconds. ^ Fair point.

Forerunner has been taken out back and Pom Flared repeatedly by Seraphim's pet Pomburner Moogle.

MPKs Syntax with a Molboro for good measure and fair play. Molboros are cool.

On topic, I do believe there is a combination of factors that lead to the Ifrit frustration. One is certainly network lag. Another is player ability to not get locked into animations. A third being the short time that eruptions take to activate. In a fight where timing is everything, these differences are key factors in the difference between survival and death.

If you can master the timings you can nearly predict-run the eruptions, then the fight becomes more about numbers than visual awesomeness. If you are having latency issues, the above factors can mess with your success. While technically avoidable, you can still get hit every time. If the servers are having a bad night, this again can effect it, just like when your personal ISP connection has a bad day. With the 2.0 promised improvement, we should see some of this ease off, making Ifrit easier (excluding redesigns).

Under the current structure of the internet, you will never 100% eliminate this issue. After a certain threshold though, players either don't notice the differences or can work around network latency successfully. At that point the lag is "gone."

Whoa did we time warp back to November?

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Let's do the Time Warp again.

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;)
hehehehe

IMO the quest should be renamed to: "Ifrit lags, Can We Kill It?"

that's kinda weird... im from Europe and did ifrit many times already and it only happened to me twice that i got killed even thou i was outside of the cracks... maybe my connection is made of magic

I'm from europe and my delay is usually 1-3 seconds. The lag doesn't make ifrit that much harder but it takes lots of time to adapt to it. People saying it's no issue are usually the ones that don't have any lag. The majority says it is an issue and SE has acknowledged it as such.

In my experience most of the people I've partied with who said "I died because of lag" are just making excuses cause they want to non stop spam skills.
They are the ones who are too lazy/impatient to wait for Ifrit to do a WS before they do.
Sure there is lag/animation lock ect...
But if you Chaos Thrust/start casting when he spawns cracks and you die...
Simply put, it was your fault not lag.
Learn not to suck.

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Originally Posted by AmandaHuggenkiss

In my experience most of the people I've partied with who said "I died because of lag" are just making excuses cause they want to non stop spam skills.
They are the ones who are too lazy/impatient to wait for Ifrit to do a WS before they do.
Sure there is lag/animation lock ect...
But if you Chaos Thrust/start casting when he spawns cracks and you die...
Simply put, it was your fault not lag.
Learn not to suck.

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Ding ding ding. Sure the lag and animation lag suck, but they are a known issue, and by now people should know how to deal with it.

Ifrit is the only fight i have trouble with, and its always the cracks. its not the puddles of lava, or inferno, or spikes, or his little 360 degree flame thing he does.

i'm starting to think SE Screwed up and aren't owning up to it

Lag is ridiculous in Greece too >.< it's like as soon as u see the cracks forming on grouond u have about 1 second to react...
If not u are hit by it, even if u ran all the way back to Broken Water and it explodes nowhere near you..
Solution is there but not always easy to work with. Battle log that is.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

Ifrit is the only fight i have trouble with, and its always the cracks. its not the puddles of lava, or inferno, or spikes, or his little 360 degree flame thing he does.

i'm starting to think SE Screwed up and aren't owning up to it

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Needs better reflexes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL4jjThWxpk

We lost this fight, but notice how I didn't die until everyone else died. Don't blame lag.

Let’s clear a couple of things up
- We are not some noob party that just started doing Ifrit
- We haven't lost Ifrit in 2 months (not even with a pick up party)
- There was a noticeable problem with Wutia Severer last night, (buy all party members)

Probably wasn't clear at the beginning, cus of the ranting, I have calmed my lover down and he is ok now. XOXXOXOXOXO
p.s. (he’s gona deny it)

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Originally Posted by Answa

Needs better reflexes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL4jjThWxpk

We lost this fight, but notice how I didn't die until everyone else died. Don't blame lag.

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If it were lag, im pretty sure his lava puddles moves would also cause issues, so no i don't blame lag.
lag shouldn't cause complete animations cycles to disappear either(AKA ghost cracks)

shouldn't go jumping to conclusions, you know. makes people think less of you.

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Originally Posted by Forerunner

Did I say I couldn't beat him? No.
Did you read my posts? No.

Look, in my hands, whats that? An Ifrit Weapon?

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2...1326558637.jpg

Why yes, I think it is. Why can't I hold all this truth?

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Having an ifrit weapon is 0 reflection on your skill in the fight. Judging by your post, you're the thm that dies to erruption 5 times before hellfire who everyone else just leaves dead after and finishes the fight w/o you. then pops a raise on you and you get weapon.

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Originally Posted by IStolzI

Having an ifrit weapon is 0 reflection on your skill in the fight. Judging by your post, you're the thm that dies to erruption 5 times before hellfire who everyone else just leaves dead after and finishes the fight w/o you. then pops a raise on you and you get weapon.

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Yes, we all know the bull crap that gets tossed back in forth on these forums are in direct relation to your in game skills.

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Originally Posted by lerunes_second

Let’s clear a couple of things up
- We are not some noob party that just started doing Ifrit
- We haven't lost Ifrit in 2 months (not even with a pick up party)
- There was a noticeable problem with Wutia Severer last night, (buy all party members)

Probably wasn't clear at the beginning, cus of the ranting, I have calmed my lover down and he is ok now. XOXXOXOXOXO
p.s. (he’s gona deny it)

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OH I embrace it ( )( ) <--- two scoops of man butt

To the wannabe elitists: look at thread x! There's someone who has crashes while doing moogle! Go and tell him how noob he is and that he just lacks the skill to avoid the crashes!

im not sure if anyone mentioned this already. But, lagg plays on 2 side, how much traffic on the SE servers and how much traffic on your connection ( even if your the only computer connected to internet ).

what i am saying. how about do a ping test, in the morning and at night ( opposite when you normally do ifrit/moogle ).

i have 2 ISP, cable and dsl, i keep cable for large file downloads and DSL for constant low ping

typically cable internet, especially in the urban cities, slows down at night, but fast at day. you have have a huge bandwidth, but "ping" slows down.

ive seen the effect of this myself because i have played ifrit in both my cable and DSL ISP, and boy, the lagg on my cable internet is pretty crap, that ifrit will dissapear and ill just see eruptions, and sometimes i would say "how the hell did you survive that plume when your standing on top of it?"...so i keep my DSL at nights, same goes for my game consoles, they are all connected to the DSL for the "ping" response to game servers.

For the most part, if I start running when I see the 'Eruption' in my log, I'll be alright. (I play on the East Coast.) However, there IS the occasion I'll hit a lag spike and will get hit with Eruption before it even shows up in my log, or too soon after for me to move away in time. It's frustrating when I must literally sit there and wait for it to cast anyway (because animation lock will kill me otherwise). This is, unfortunately, the downside to playing a game with servers in Japan. Although it might benefit some people to host servers in other areas, it would destroy the cross-country play if everyone from North America jumped on the NA server, etc.

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Originally Posted by Coldfire

To the wannabe elitists: look at thread x! There's someone who has crashes while doing moogle! Go and tell him how noob he is and that he just lacks the skill to avoid the crashes!

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I don't think I saw any evidence of that. Maybe your perception is sensitive?

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

If it were lag, im pretty sure his lava puddles moves would also cause issues, so no i don't blame lag.
lag shouldn't cause complete animations cycles to disappear either(AKA ghost cracks)

shouldn't go jumping to conclusions, you know. makes people think less of you.

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Most of my mates are in Europe. Most of them survive just as well as I can and they have terribly worse lag than I do.

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Originally Posted by Athaya

Not lag..... Inexperience!

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So in order to beat anything like this, I should have to attempt it 500 times before learning the "right" way to do it? How about the developers create something that is difficult and requires actual thought instead of relying on crappy software to do the work for them? Or, better yet, create content that can be tackled in multiple ways? I don't expect them to make things I can beat in 1 try, but if played perfectly, I should still be able too, even if my chances are very very low (2%) of getting it on the first try. Instead, what your suggesting is, the ONLY way anyone should ever be able to beat something like this is to try a few thousand times simply because everyone else had to? "It was designed like shit for a reason, so that you have to try it a few dozen times until you learn all the ways its buggy and poorly built and figure out ways around these issues. Thats what makes it Fun!" Thats essentially what some of you are saying.

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Originally Posted by Brigandier

however, someone does need to whiteknight for SE. Good job.

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Troll harder.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Ding ding ding. Sure the lag and animation lag suck, but they are a known issue, and by now people should know how to deal with it.

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Yep, I deal with it by not doing runs at all after seeing the abortion that was this fights design on my first character. The simple fact that you are all willing to sit there and explain that its easy once you figure out all the tricks to getting around shitty game design proves my point. If fights that are designed like this are still being put out in 2.0, I will not be hanging around for them. I completely understand that these fights were given to us to hold us over until they fix the game but, defending their poor design sends the wrong message to SE.

I have as bad of lag as anyone and at one point, I thought that I would never be able to enjoy Ifrit as a result. But I must say, even with terrible lag, it is fairly easy to go the whole fight without dying. I'm not trying to brag, its just that I was at the point of completely giving up on this fight because I thought lag rendered it impossible. Now its rare for me to die, ever. Watch your battle log, run further than you think is necessary, spread out your casters, etc. This battle would be insanely easy without lag and is pleasantly challenging with it. Adapt, seriously, its doable with terrible lag. Just sayin :cool:

I don't think doable or not is the issue. Its a rare day to lose on ifrit nowadays because of being forced to adapt many moons ago. The point is its ridiculous to try and pass off a failed mechanic as some kind of quasi challenge when it should not be ad bad as it is in the first place.

SE admitted its failing when they finally started to get the ping results in - why can't the white knights do so as well? People should stop trying to pass it off as "part of the challenge" when its absurd its that bad to begin with.

Yeah, I guess its bad mechanics, but if I got to ifrit expecting end game content and fought that battle with no lag...i'd be seriously disappointed with its simplicity. I admit its poor design, but I think they took lag into account when they chose not to "fix" the battle in recent updates to account for the lag. It would be fairly easy to just change the time between when eruptions appear and when they explode and actually dmg you, to account for lag. They could have done a lot of things to account for the obviously flawed server system that they are totally reworking for 2.0. The battle is challenging as it stands and would not be if there wasn't lag, i'm just happy it took me a little more time to get all 7 drops and I think it will become more and more of a non-issue as more primals and more, better weapons get released.

I was once killed by a level 76 mob before he spawned. I blame myself for not knowing invisible mobs can klill you from the other side of the aether.

Ofc there's clear server lag. I have 100mbit connection, so doubt it's my ISP. While it's appreciated some people post feedback on strategies to circumvent and exploit server lag, this shouldn't be considered a "level of difficulty" or a "challenge" by anyone. If PvP and Hamlet is going to be features where you need to learn how to control and predict or exploit server lag the most, I personally would rather wait 2 years for 2.0 or 1.21 even so SE can fix all networkish issues first.
To make a comparison. I never will play SWTOR, but I have European and US friends hailing their networks to the sky. One friend claims she has 25 ping to a German server from France, but only spike at 50 ping on a US East coast server. Now that's good wiring and server settings.