The virtual currency "Moogle Coins" in the FFXIV Companion app must be removed

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Am I the only one not mad at this? The app and the servers it interacts with need to be funded somehow. Okay ideally it would be free, but lets be real here. It appears the app can do some advanced stuff. Most apps with this level of advancement have some sort of cost whether it's real money or advertisements.

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The competition (WoW) has an app that does this and more. It's included in your sub. It lets you create far more listings per day (200!) with no mobile currency BS required to do it.

The MB is already on functional servers, as are login and chat. The only extra server capacity is on a frontend to handle requests from the app. $5/month for that is a total farce. If they want to do this, it should be a value added feature for people who are already paying a premium price, considering this is one of the most expensive games on the market already.

This is a shameless cash grab to an insane degree. One listing per day, or two for $5/month, unless I pay extra for special currency? I mean, I know Blizzard's technical know how trumps SE, but there's no excuse for such low limits on the app unless the goal is to try and get people to buy extra currency to use it, which is disgraceful behavior in a subscription game. This is exactly how F2P apps work.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

The thing is we're already paying a premium subscription every month on top of paying the mogstation for some glam items. Pay walling content like the ability to get a lot more MB uptime is F2P territory. And not even the good kind, the P2W kind (you get a tangible in game advantage over others.. not just extra comfort).

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Glam stuff is optional. You get no significant advantage from having a pretty dress or a cool emote. Jump potions? Well you can just level the stuff yourself, no need for the mog station to get yourself or retainers to lvl 60.

As for more mb uptime, most players log in to play with friends, do roulettes, quests, etc. They don't log in to play intensely with the mb. Most people just put stuff up for sale and forget about it for a few hours. You don't need the app to do that.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

It just isn't acceptable for a subscription based game (of which you also need to purchase the game AND the expansions) to implement F2P schemes, period.

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Almost every f2p mmo has some sort of pay to win thing involved in their stores, often heavily so. This really isn't the case the XIV.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

They could/should make the app a one time purchase. Or have a lite version and a premium one time purchase version. Or hell, I would even accept an in app subscription if what you gained from it was ONLY extra comfort.
But them implementing in app currency and giving you access to real benefits is a tell tale sign that we're getting F'd up the A.

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I agree that the payment method could be better. It would be nice if you could do something in-game to go towards paying for the premium version. I have a lot of excess gil I have nothing to do with. I'd certainly consider using it to fund the premium version of the app.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

The competition (WoW) has an app that does this and more. It's included in your sub. It lets you create far more listings per day (200!) with no mobile currency BS required to do it.

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That's true but that was released long ago when the app market was different and lets face it, Blizzard have far more money to throw around than SE do. I know loads of WoW players and literally no one I know uses the app. Again for the reasons I already stated, it does nothing you can't already do yourself when logged in.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Well you're not punished for not using it so if you don't like it don't use it. As I said already there is nothing about it that makes it mandatory.

I get the feeling the app may be more aimed at the japanese market. Their school and working hours tend to be far longer than in the west, so I can see how they might get great use out of it.

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No, you ARE punished for not using it. Maybe to YOU it's no big deal but as a "market board PVPer" who already competes with bots it's absolutely a huge punishment to me. I'm studying for my degree in Japan and guess what? I'm at lab all day, so my time is limited as you mentioned. But that doesn't mean that I want to pay for some stupid app so I can update my stuff during lab. I'M WORKING, I shouldn't be playing on some app on my phone anyway. But now, as it stands most people update their price only when they're online. So at least when I get the chance to play, it generally isn't so bad. I can list an item and keep it up at the same price for hours. I can only imagine how much more often people will be updating prices with these new changes...it's really going to suck.

You can say it doesn't punish you but when your enjoyment comes from crafting/gathering, then yes. It does. There's just no reason for this. Paid items should not give advantages. Who do you think has the advantage in market board PVP? The player who can update whenever with their phone or the player who can only update when they can get online? Sure there will always be people who have no life and play all day but they're kind of a minority compared to people who only play a few hours a day. No big deal. But when literally anyone who is willing to pay $5 extra gets that advantage while those who are already at their limit of spending power at the sub + retainer fees....well, to me that's not right.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

The competition (WoW) has an app that does this and more. It's included in your sub. It lets you create far more listings per day (200!) with no mobile currency BS required to do it.

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Not to rain on your parade here because I agree with you, but the WoW app is ceasing the mobile auction house feature on April 18th. Unfortunately this isn't an example that can be used anymore.

I don't have much to add that hasn't been said. I understand the need to subsidize costs, but it just feels kinda sour.

edit: removed redundant words.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

But now, as it stands most people update their price only when they're online. So at least when I get the chance to play, it generally isn't so bad. I can list an item and keep it up at the same price for hours. I can only imagine how much more often people will be updating prices with these new changes...it's really going to suck.

You can say it doesn't punish you but when your enjoyment comes from crafting/gathering, then yes. It does. There's just no reason for this.

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Can't you do this with the free app as well or am I missing something? This isn't some new announcement I think we knew this was coming for quite some time. And yeah it's a given in my opinion that undercutting and price cutting will become a lot more commonplace. One thing you can be sure of it that things will cost a lot less and people will make less money.

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Originally Posted by Tsunenori

Not to rain on your parade here because I agree with you, but the WoW app is ceasing the mobile auction house feature on April 18th. Unfortunately this isn't an example that can be used anymore.

I don't have much to add that hasn't been said. I understand the need to subsidize costs, but it just feels kinda sour.

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Huh. Well, good to know. I assume the Legion app's functionality will be sticking around still?

If they're so broke they couldn't afford to develop this without such outrageous costs, the sensible thing to do would be to not develop it at all. Put the resources where they're needed more.

The fact that we've been told about this app years ago, and how they're handling things, feels like yet another of their lies, alongside housing, Diadem, etc. Tired of it. I didn't unsub because of this, but my subscription ran out yesterday, and I don't plan on coming back any time soon. Again.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

You can say it doesn't punish you but when your enjoyment comes from crafting/gathering, then yes. It does.

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A significant amount of my enjoyment does come from crafting and gathering, which has made me a very wealthy player, and I still say I won't feel punished for not using the app. I frankly don't check my auctions often enough to need it. I put stuff up for sale and recheck prices three times a day at most. I log in to play the other content in the game, not do "mb pvp" as you call it.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Am I the only one not mad at this? The app and the servers it interacts with need to be funded somehow. Okay ideally it would be free, but lets be real here. It appears the app can do some advanced stuff. Most apps with this level of advancement have some sort of cost whether it's real money or advertisements.

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True they need people working on the App and its not free for them either to give it too us, but their is a big difference in letting us pay 5 dollar once or monthly.
they don't need that much money too operate an app its just greed and the premium stuff it gives is literally no reason for just give it too everyone instead
of locking it behind a paywall.
Like they have done with many things i pay my sub and square is making big profit from those subs their is no reason for all these paywalls besides squares greed for more money.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

A significant amount of my enjoyment does come from crafting and gathering, which has made me a very wealthy player, and I still say I won't feel punished for not using the app. I frankly don't check my auctions often enough to need it. I put stuff up for sale and recheck prices three times a day at most. I log in to play the other content in the game, not do "mb pvp" as you call it.

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Okay, but that's exactly my point. You CAN just recheck your prices 3 times a day and that's fine, right? But what about when everyone has the app and are updating it constantly....then your 3 times a day will be insufficient because your prices will be undercut a million times a day. Forcing you to either give up or buy the app.

And btw, I also log in to play other content in the game. But it's a fun thing for me to try to make x amount of gil each day. I happen to enjoy crafting more than fighting and there's nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

Okay, but that's exactly my point. You CAN just recheck your prices 3 times a day and that's fine, right? But what about when everyone has the app and are updating it constantly....then your 3 times a day will be insufficient because your prices will be undercut a million times a day. Forcing you to either give up or buy the app.

And btw, I also log in to play other content in the game. But it's a fun thing for me to try to make x amount of gil each day.

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Actually I don't play the undercutting game much. At a certain point I stop and just wait for the cheaper items to be bought up and mine always eventually gets bought.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Actually I don't play the undercutting game much. At a certain point I stop and just wait for the cheaper items to be bought up and mine always eventually gets bought.

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Yeah, right now it does. You know why? Because people log out and stop undercutting. Of course eventually it'll probably sell as long as you update your prices daily but there's no doubt it will affect sales to some degree.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

Yeah, right now it does. You know why? Because people log out and stop undercutting. Of course eventually it'll probably sell as long as you update your prices daily but there's no doubt it will affect sales to some degree.

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So you have just said things will sell anyway if you check daily...which you can do with or without the app...so why are you so mad about the app if you just admitted things will sell anyway?

The only thing I'm "mad" at, and mad is a strong word, is that this is a good opportunity to provide a gil sink for players who could use gil to pay for the app but it's being overlooked. The lack of a gil sink is a common criticism from players.

Going to have to agree with the majority here: this is a downright low, insulting move. And people can't say Square Enix doesn't know what they're doing. They know exactly what they're doing.

- They tried to turn Deus Ex's pre-order campaign into a mobile-esque cash crab (Augment your Pre-order).
- You needed a dang chart to figure out FFXV's pre-order campaign (and that one isn't even fully accurate, there's still stuff missing. )
- Final Fantasy Dissidia NT has completely gutted the content the spin off franchise is known for supposedly to make room for the online PvP component. Yet despite offering less content, they still charge a $60 USD price tag.
- Wanting to turn the FFVII remake into an episodic game to save on resources yet still charge a premium.
- Deemed their 2013 reboot of Tomb Raider an absolute failure despite selling nearly 4 million copies, because they spent so much on marketing that their target was nearly 15 million copies.

This is not the first time Square Enix's strategy as a company has been to squeeze out as much cash out of their customers as they can with as little effort as possible, and it certainly won't be the last. The company has a horrible history when it comes to budgeting and what they consider worth the money. Promotions and graphics are always on their radar, but actual QoL features and gameplay content tend to be hit or miss because of it.

And since they're using F2P mobile game strategies for this app (free and premium currency), I think it's only fair to take a look at how Square Enix handles their F2P mobile games:

Kingdom Hearts Unchained X: there have been multiple times where if you wanted to guarantee yourself even one copy of a set of medals, you would need large sums of money for that. In one case it was $2,000 USD (Kairi EX and Foretellers fiasco). Not to mention they outright still strip of players in NA of certain features (like voice acting and certain banner types) when other countries (like Taiwan) gets them. For no explanation whatsoever.

Final Fantasy Dissidia Opera Omnia: While by far one of the most generous mobile app games currently on the market by guaranteeing a 5-star relic/weapon with each draw, which one you get is still left up to chance. Because of their pricing for currency you would need the equivalent of $148 USD to fully limit break the weapon of one character. For a team of three that's a minimum of $369.90 USD. If you're a collector? Well at the time I first wrote about the game (not gonna link because I don't want to self promote, not sure what the rules are on that here) there were 27 characters. That's $3,329.10 USD. And more characters have been added since then, so that price continues to grow.

Guardian Codex: Oh this one had a slew of issues, and they didn't bother fixing most of these (as far as I'm aware). Aside from typical F2P currency BS they made it so that the two versions (despite being launched globally on the exact same day) were different in terms of quality and the Japanese one showed in writing what the terms and chances of certain things were. They deliberately hid those details in the NA version. This was before the big Battlefront fiasco that made the app stores make this a requirement.

Mobius Final Fantasy: This one is in some ways far friendlier than most, however you can pay a monthly fee for a premium VIP package on top of spending money for premium currency for the gacha roulette stuff. So basically a F2P game with a lower monthly sub. This isn't a new concept in the mobile F2P space, and it is absolutely not a new concept for Square Enix. This sounds closest to what this companion app is aiming for.

And that's all just the tip of the iceberg. Now you look at those numbers and tell me with a straight face they're not testing the waters to see what they might be able to rake in with premium currency for FFXIV.

Because frankly, with SE's history in terms how they treat microtransactions, I'm not optimistic of how they handle this feature. You can say it's optional all you want, but so were all of the above cases I just described.

The bottom line is if they didn't think people would use it (and therefore give them money), they wouldn't make it. People will use this to manipulate the market board at all times (Fashion Report says hello. Now all you have to do is pay attention to Reddit, then open the app and pop your items up there without even opening the game). If they truly, sincerely only wanted a chat app then that's all this would have been: a free chat app. It's not.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

So you have just said things will sell anyway if you check daily...which you can do with or without the app...so why are you so mad about the app if you just admitted things will sell anyway?

The only thing I'm "mad" at, and mad is a strong word, is that this is a good opportunity to provide a gil sink for players who could use gil to pay for the app but it's being overlooked. The lack of a gil sink is a common criticism from players.

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You seemed to have missed the part about how it will "eventually probably" sell, meaning not necessarily the same day you listed it or in as great a quantity. Of course almost anything will probably sell if you have it listed long enough and update the prices every now and then but that doesn't mean it's an ideal situation. So yeah, stuff will PROBABLY still sell but lets say you have 20 listings. As of right now, maybe you can sell 18 of those listings by only updating 3 times a day. But with this change, you're only going to be able to sell maybe 5 of those listings. Is that ok with you? Because it's not ok with me.

However I agree on your last point. If you're going to have the app at all then a cool way to go about it would be by offering us to pay for it in gil. People who like to work the market board wouldn't be affected by it much since we'd undoubtedly have the gil for it and the premium features are mostly for those kind of people anyway and a gil sink would indeed be nice.

@DreadRabbit; That analysis is truly worrying and I fear for the future of our beloved FFXIV. I really hate microtransactions and that is the sole reason why I have given up all mobile gaming. This is just disgusting. Those prices are disgusting. For a mobile game? 3,000 USD? I feel sick just reading that. And I feel even more sick at the fact that there are still people defending these kind of practices.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Well you're not punished for not using it so if you don't like it don't use it. As I said already there is nothing about it that makes it mandatory.

I get the feeling the app may be more aimed at the japanese market. Their school and working hours tend to be far longer than in the west, so I can see how they might get great use out of it.

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They still probably used FF14 budget for that. A budget that could have been used for more ingame content. WoW had a Auction app which was completely free. Saying that its not bad just because its not mandatory does not make a good argument imo. I mean savage is not mandatory for this game (dont need it to finish MSQ) yet I am quite sure that people would have problems if they sold it for money.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

@DreadRabbit; That analysis is truly worrying and I fear for the future of our beloved FFXIV. I really hate microtransactions and that is the sole reason why I have given up all mobile gaming. This is just disgusting. Those prices are disgusting. For a mobile game? 3,000 USD? I feel sick just reading that. And I feel even more sick at the fact that there are still people defending these kind of practices.

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The numbers grow worse, unfortunately :( There's a reason why AAA companies like SE are putting all their efforts towards Mobile F2P transaction models: it's a billion dollar industry that rakes in cash for much lower effort. What kind of business person/company would ignore that kind of draw?

Candy Crush Saga (which is the definition of "you don't HAVE to buy things to progress" ) estimates over $1 million USD a day on iphones alone.

Pokemon Go, despite what few things you can purchase and their limited use, makes just short of that on a daily basis as well.

Never forget the big Granblue Fantasy scandal worth $6,000 either.

And the more people defend these practices, the worse it will get. The only reason Electronic Arts got a slap on the wrist was because of gameplay mechanic progression. Yet look at how much these games are making on just cosmetics, pretty artwork, and frankly, gameplay progression. Gameplay is not just how big your numbers are when you smack a monster (I know you don't think that specifically, that's more for other folks).

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Almost every f2p mmo has some sort of pay to win thing involved in their stores, often heavily so. This really isn't the case the XIV.

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Every F2P MMO nickel-and-dimes you for doing basically nothing.

At one point in time (about 10 years ago) Gachapon was just bonus glamor stuff. Then the F2P games decided to start adding additional stats to it so people would buy all of it.

The "Social" Mobile games came out and basically became nothing but Gachapon.
http://i66.tinypic.com/28gxg78.png
(Hyperdimension Neptunia Re:Birth3 V Generation)

So you get a cycle of "new gacha is better than the old gacha"

And thus no more actual gameplay.

That is the real danger of putting things in the cash shop. When it's simply glamor, and you can pick what you want, you are not under any compulsion to buy stuff you don't want (which is essentially what happens with the coins and primal/raid parts.) But as we've been seeing with the Deep Dungeon and Eureka, they've been sneaking this RNG BS Gacha into the game. That's how it starts. If the new deep dungeon has the same kind of reward mechanic we're in trouble.

Nexon did it that way, they would put the "reward chests" into the game, but if you wanted to unlock a good item, you had to buy better keys from the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by DreadRabbit

The numbers grow worse, unfortunately :( There's a reason why AAA companies like SE are putting all their efforts towards Mobile F2P transaction models: it's a billion dollar industry that rakes in cash for much lower effort. What kind of business person/company would ignore that kind of draw?

Candy Crush Saga (which is the definition of "you don't HAVE to buy things to progress" ) estimates over $1 million USD a day on iphones alone.

Pokemon Go, despite what few things you can purchase and their limited use, makes just short of that on a daily basis as well.

Never forget the big Granblue Fantasy scandal worth $6,000 either.

And the more people defend these practices, the worse it will get. The only reason Electronic Arts got a slap on the wrist was because of gameplay mechanic progression. Yet look at how much these games are making on just cosmetics, pretty artwork, and frankly, gameplay progression. Gameplay is not just how big your numbers are when you smack a monster (I know you don't think that specifically, that's more for other folks).

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Indeed that's exactly the problem. These kind of "products" are made with little effort and only need to be produced once and can be replicated indefinitely basically for free for the company, making millions of dollars at virtually no cost in comparison. I'm not at all surprised that a company will do these things. If we as individuals could make money in such a manner...wouldn't we do that as well? The answer is, probably. Yeah. If we could get away with it and didn't care about others. But there is a famous saying, you know? "A fool and their money are easily parted". It becomes this thought process of, "If someone is stupid enough to spend their money on that, then who are we to judge?" and this line of thinking becomes the defense for doing these practices in the first place. But it's a terrible practice. It's basically saying "I don't care about the people who are supporting me, I only want to see how much money I can make out of them".

But here's the thing; you can't necessarily fault a company for doing this. After all, as I just said above... most people would do this if they could get away with it. That's why it's so dangerous to have people defending this kind of practice. I have absolutely no qualms with SE trying to make money - or any company, for that matter. But I want them to EARN that money from my pocket. If you are going to make me pay for something extra outside of my sub fees, then first of all I want to see that you actually put effort into it, none of this low effort BS we're seeing with this app. But secondly, I want to see that my money that I am spending extra on your MMO is actually going back into that MMO to improve it. I'm not seeing that with FFXIV as much as it pains me to say. I mean, even the forums. I can't post this without being cut off from a word limit that means nothing since you can just edit a post anyway. And the game itself....don't even get me started on all the issues.

And the worst part is, the way companies that DO get away with it manage to do so is, as you pretty much mentioned, by making it "optional". But absolutely every little thing that is not directly tied to the main story questline is "optional" if you want to push it that way. Do you want to level everything on one character? Well, honestly that's optional. You can just make a new character. What if they made you have to pay to unlock additional jobs? Do you want access to glamour at all? Optional. Want to pay for that too? There are so many things in this game that are "optional", it becomes a very dangerous and slippery slope to just say "well, it's optional so it's fine that they charge us extra for it", especially when not only are some of the things ridiculously overpriced, but also MONTHLY. Although I think we should be given additional space for free due to the item bloat of this game, I would honestly be happy if I could just buy an additional retainer for a flat $20, one time. I honestly don't even buy the bullshit excuse of "they need the money to pay for the server space for your extra storage" because if you fail to pay for your retainer, you lose the retainer...but when you get them back all of your stuff remains. Which means, regardless of if you are actively paying or not, they are storing that data.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

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Couldn't agree more :) Well said.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

- Additional Retainer can be hired (this just adds the ability to pay them more for 1 additional retainer, the retainer is not included)

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Edit: I'm editing out this point for now pending further clarification on how exactly it works.

Anyway, I realize that's a bit of a side-topic to the main thread. I'm not a big fan of the premium currency either, FWIW.

For people saying its app should be 100% free with no perks. Then why is Blizzard (who made $599 million last quarter) shutting theirs down next week? https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...se-is-retiring
My guess it was not worth the "COST" or maybe even time (because no one was using it) to keep the Auction house part of it running, even though its been completely free for the last few years.

This is such a horrible addition. Letting the small amount of whales dropping insane amounts of cash, to influence the mb.

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Originally Posted by polyphonica

It's included in the premium..

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Are you sure? Someone said Yoshi wanted to make it clear that the retainer was not part of the package other than unlocking it. Have to do some digging as to where that was mentioned.

edit: From the unofficial reddit translation:

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Yoshida stressed that it doesn't mean you get a free retainer just because it increases the retainer limit to 10

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Take that with a grain of salt of course. We'll likely have to wait to see when the app is released or a community staff member darts out of the shadows for a moment to clarify. :)

mog currency sounded to me like venture coins... someone translated it that you give it to the moogle.... and no one said it gave you more money. soo i dont have an issue with it.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

Are you sure? Someone said Yoshi wanted to make it clear that the retainer was not part of the package other than unlocking it. Have to do some digging as to where that was mentioned.

edit: From the unofficial reddit translation:


Take that with a grain of salt of course. We'll likely have to wait to see when the app is released or a community staff member darts out of the shadows for a moment to clarify. :)

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Yeah, in considering all they said put together, it's still confusing. They did certainly clarify that this is not something everyone will get for free, and that it's a premium feature. They said that it increases the total you can hire to 10, and is aside from the existing limit of 9. So does that mean that you'll be able to get a premium subscription to the app, and then in the app itself you'll be able to purchase this added retainer subscription on top of that? (So the app subscription could potentially be $7/month with the retainer?)

I guess, in truth, we just have to wait for more information to be released to understand all the details of how this works. I'll edit out my earlier post to prevent the spread of possibly-wrong info in the meantime.

you can also bribe moogles with moogle coins to do the services. They are the in app currency

so this REALLY sounds like venture coins. so i dont think it should be taken down. i mean unless we also ban venture coins.

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Originally Posted by Niraye

you can also bribe moogles with moogle coins to do the services. They are the in app currency

so this REALLY sounds like venture coins. so i dont think it should be taken down. i mean unless we also ban venture coins.

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Two completely different things. I can tell my retainer to sell items without ventures (I mean, how else will I do it?). Ventures just allows them to get materials and rare items.

Moogle coins is just a way to bypass the Kupo Nuts if you run out. Coins and Ventures are not comparable.

I am not trouble http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/ir...08/page04.html

1st quarter of 2018 and for ffxiv 8.0 billion yen. at first I was yet I not anymore. it interesting ideal we see what bears

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Originally Posted by Niraye

you can also bribe moogles with moogle coins to do the services. They are the in app currency

so this REALLY sounds like venture coins. so i dont think it should be taken down. i mean unless we also ban venture coins.

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You don't have to log in every day to get ventures, you don't have to pay cash to increase the number you get per day or the capacity you can hold, and you certainly don't have to pay real money to get more of them if the rate you can earn/buy them in the game is not fast enough for you. If you want ventures you buy or earn them solely within the game itself with no artificial limits aside from the stack limit that applies to every other item in the game. Moogle coins and ventures are entirely different things.

The kupo nuts and moogle coins are P2W mobile game garbage that they're testing out with a non-critical system before expanding their usage options. If this goes over well enough and turns them a profit you better believe this crap will start affecting other ways you interact with the game from the app. This is very dangerous ground SE is treading on just to earn a quick buck.

https://ffxivcensus.com/

500k subs this isn't bad for ffxiv. this it third expansion, even Yoshi p said this game is Niche games

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Originally Posted by Niraye

you can also bribe moogles with moogle coins to do the services. They are the in app currency

so this REALLY sounds like venture coins. so i dont think it should be taken down. i mean unless we also ban venture coins.

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The problem being, from what I can gather, that the only way to obtain moogle coins will be to purchase them through the app. With real money. Meaning that the app will hand over control of the game’s mb system to big spenders via rmt.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

- Additional Retainer can be hired (this just adds the ability to pay them more for 1 additional retainer, the retainer is not included according to the unofficial translation)

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Is this for sure? I've heard it in a couple of places, but the slides seem to indicate that using the premium version allows you to "hire" a new retainer (as in you hire a new retainer in-game) not "purchase" a new retainer (as in purchasing a new retainer on the Mog Station).

Edit: Just caught up and saw you answered this on page 7. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

The problem being, from what I can gather, that the only way to obtain moogle coins will be to purchase them through the app. With real money. Meaning that the app will hand over control of the game’s mb system to big spenders via rmt.

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but you earn them every day you log.

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Originally Posted by Niraye

you can also bribe moogles with moogle coins to do the services. They are the in app currency

so this REALLY sounds like venture coins. so i dont think it should be taken down. i mean unless we also ban venture coins.

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Not quite. You're talking about Kupo nuts: if you log in every day you get one for free. More if you opt for the $5 USD subscription fee. These are what lets you list items on the market board, purchase stuff off the market board, etc.

Moogle coins are a secondary currency, and unlike Kupo Nuts where they very bluntly stated are free, they make no mention of Moogle Coins being free or how they're obtained (typically an industry cue that it's going to cost something). And judging from the slides, it sounds very similar to how mobile games have players use premium currency purchased with money to bypass stamina restrictions (in that you give them the coin to do stuff for you after you've used all of your Kupo Nuts).

That reeks of mobile premium currency. This idea is also not new on mobile apps: many F2P apps have a monthly "VIP package" you can pay for certain benefits (like the companion app does) and still offer to purchase more premium currency to do stuff in game you otherwise normally couldn't do in the app.

Got my details here: https://youtu.be/41n4Rx88Ksg?t=20m35s

That said, until we get some official translations and confirmations this could all change. I certainly hope it does.

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Originally Posted by Niraye

but you earn them every day you log.

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Nope. You earn 1 Kupo Nut every day you log (2 if you have the premium version). Moogle Coins are a different thing, which from what we know so far can only be acquired through in-app purchases.

It's not complete pay to win, as it's still possible (as it's always been) for players to spend all their time in-game, adjusting their marketboard prices, but it is pay to win for the subset of players who are unable to log in and still want to adjust their marketboard items. Players in this subset who spend real life money have a clear and complete advantage over those that don't.

And people getting mad when i say SE want to compete against EA...

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Originally Posted by Niraye

but you earn them every day you log.

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1-2 though. For not spending additional money that means you can adjust one current item, sell one new item or make a single purchase per day. It's basic f2p phone game energy tactics where you can do minimal interactions per day, but we humans tend to get fidgety waiting and cave in to purchases to get around it. The additional bonus for them is that even if someone resists the purchases, logging in every day affords them the opportunity to push advertisements for their other games or mogstation purchases on a regular basis if they should choose to include that in the app.

As long as they never add loot boxes, I will either avoid the premium stuff if I don't need it, or pay if I end up wanting it. I don't care about that part. Paid Loot boxes tho, are the devil, and that would seriously make me consider quitting, even after the 11000+ hours of time I have logged and the thousands of dollars I've spent between Collectors editions, merch, fanfests, and sub time.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

https://ffxivcensus.com/

500k subs this isn't bad for ffxiv. this it third expansion, even Yoshi p said this game is Niche games

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This game isn't niche in any way. Quite the contrary.