Eureka is meant for casual players.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

1. You cannot compare FFXI relics to FFXIV.

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That's all you took from that? I'm not comparing the two at all. I'm simply stating that in games where the "grind" weapon is supposed to be the end all, it usually is. And it usually is, because of the time invested. FFXIV relics are also a longer grind than learning a raid. In my opinion, the raid weapons are the third shortest route, and should be the 2nd highest.

Relic
Raid
Tomes/Crafted (since they continually want to place craft items in with tomes)

That should be the order at all stages, based on current history of time spent acquiring one. But instead, with this game, it's all over the place. And it constantly causes unwanted conflict between controversially-named "hardcore" and "casual" players.

If there was true equality in the game's gear, there would be alternative routes to acquire same-level gear in all stages. But instead we have arbitrary values placed on all of it, and it's always a vertical progression, with each set being in its own vacuum. There is no lateral progression at all.

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Originally Posted by TarynH

That's all you took from that? I'm not comparing the two at all. I'm simply stating that in games where the "grind" weapon is supposed to be the end all, it usually is. And it usually is, because of the time invested. FFXIV relics are also a longer grind than learning a raid.

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With your comment of "this is all you took from that" I am shocked you did not get into what I thought was your main point

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Eureka is meant for bots and players that have extremely low standards when it comes to entertainment.

Sorry to be so rude but it is what it is. The most lame, and lazy way a game developer can possibly design a game. Random map, random mobs (mostly recycled models) w/o any abilities of note but a shitload of HP and high base auto attack damage.

Honestly, we all should stop subscribing for one month to punish SE for this audacity. After all this is a game we PAY for on a monthly basis. I think we can expect a little more effort than "Goto island -> kill crap" for our money. Free to play asia grinders do better than this.

I was actually looking forward to the SB relic but my limited free time is far to valuable to play sth I am BORED with. So, unless there will be severe nerfs that speed this crap step up, SB will be the first addon in which I won't be doing my relic.

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This is beyond rude, it's just plain trying to insult anyone that likes content like Eureka and tell them how to entertain themselves, and you have no right to say such things. Your opinions are one thing but don't go trying to insult people for having a differing opinion/means of amusement.

Personally, I enjoy Eureka as it reminds me of the old days of RPGs where you grind levels and progress once you get strong enough. Yes I plan to use the DRK armor for glamour since I can dye it once I upgrade it to even the +0 and I've gotten both the Orchestrion Rolls from lockboxes thus far but the rewards are not the only reason I go to Eureka. Furthermore I go when I want to and I have yet to lose interest. I don't spend all day there like some do so I am still only Lv5 in there but I enjoy it nonetheless, and I am sure many feel the same way. Just because a large portion of the playerbase doesn't like it doesn't mean it is a complete bust. So many threads complaining about it trying to pass it off as something at least almost literally everyone hates because it's either boring, not worth the rewards, or a grindfest. I don't find it boring, I think the rewards do have their merits to those looking for what they offer, and sure it has lots of grinding but I find that is part of Eureka's charm, regardless of how many disagree. Unless Eureka completely empties out after like a week from release I wouldn't count on SE considering it a failure. Furthermore, it is supposedly going to be expanded on in the future so perhaps people that hate it now will get something they want out of it then.

TL;DR version: Many like it, many dislike it, but it's only just getting started. SE may surprise people with what comes later.

I just want the mount and barding. Tried getting a group today (I'm only level 3) couldn't get one. Everyone was shouting for 11 or higher. I fear I've missed the boat already

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

With your comment of "this is all you took from that" I am shocked you did not get into what I thought was your main point

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Glad I can still surprise people? =P

I don't know, I can see this if it were more of a random treasure hunt zone, but having this as the only way to get your SB relics is not really for casuals. Unless you mean dumbing down the relic process by making only one real way to attain things is for casuals.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Eureka is meant for bots and players that have extremely low standards when it comes to entertainment.

Sorry to be so rude but it is what it is. The most lame, and lazy way a game developer can possibly design a game. Random map, random mobs (mostly recycled models) w/o any abilities of note but a shitload of HP and high base auto attack damage.

Honestly, we all should stop subscribing for one month to punish SE for this audacity. After all this is a game we PAY for on a monthly basis. I think we can expect a little more effort than "Goto island -> kill crap" for our money. Free to play asia grinders do better than this.

I was actually looking forward to the SB relic but my limited free time is far to valuable to play sth I am BORED with. So, unless there will be severe nerfs that speed this crap step up, SB will be the first addon in which I won't be doing my relic.

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You say this yet PotD exists and is considered the most successful piece of content in this game to date. Being entirely exactly everything you described just now.

I would personally say Eureka is casual friendly, I mean hell you can even solo it (especially as RDM) even if soloing reduces "kills per second", but I wouldn't say it's meant for casuals. Difficulty-wise it's on par with SB dungeons imo, with the NMs are on par with the likes of S-rank hunts (naturally these aren't soloable lol). Either way, you don't need a meta to do it, but a meta can certainly speed things up.

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Originally Posted by TarynH

Glad I can still surprise people? =P

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Did I get your main point though? like to be sure.

See the issue here is raids have some sort of time gate, and even the heaviest of grinds can be beat by nolifers in a day or 2 of 24/7 play. So the thing here is, they can RELEASE relics to be on par or beat (with the timing of this release the highest SHOULD of have been at least 265, no reason why have the final stage under perform a causal gained weapon that is 15 ilevels higher. Then as time goes on, before the new raid is release they can update it to be same ilevel as raid, no different from the past.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

SE may surprise people with what comes later.

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This is akin to saying "wait for the patch notes", and how many times has that let people down? A lot..

I'm not out to sh*t on anyone's opinion, all I can say it doesn't seem like a fit for me. Personally I think it'd be better (for me at least) if it were more solo friendly as it seems like something I could do to kill time on weekends. But having to party up really detracts me from wanting to give it a fair shot. I rarely sit still for long periods of time so, for the same reason I don't do hunts to often, I'd be afk back and forth and that's not good for a party setting.

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Originally Posted by TarynH

Seems to me, the more "casual" player is the raider. While the more "hardcore" player would be on every day grinding away at their relic.

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The reason it's casual content is because it's not difficult. The time spent doing one or the other is irrelevant as far as classifying content as casual or hardcore. I could spend 5 hours a day gathering mats - but we don't say gathering is a hardcore activity..

Relics have always been casual content. A new or different way to zerg mobs til your eyes bleed doesn't change that.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

This is akin to saying "wait for the patch notes", and how many times has that let people down? A lot..

I'm not out to sh*t on anyone's opinion, all I can say it doesn't seem like a fit for me. Personally I think it'd be better (for me at least) if it were more solo friendly as it seems like something I could do to kill time on weekends. But having to party up really detracts me from wanting to give it a fair shot. I rarely sit still for long periods of time so, for the same reason I don't do hunts to often, I'd be afk back and forth and that's not good for a party setting.

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I'm not saying we are guaranteed to be pleasantly surprised, only that it's possible. I can say for sure though that there will always be people that like what comes, and people that don't like what comes. Depends on what we get.

If I had to make a prediction, I'd say what we have now is the base of the cake, and they're still working on the rest. We may see some quests, possibly repeatable, and other things to do as well, not to mention the true SB relic. I wouldn't count on gathering though.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

The reason it's casual content is because it's not difficult. The time spent doing one or the other is irrelevant as far as classifying content as casual or hardcore. I could spend 5 hours a day gathering mats - but we don't say gathering is a hardcore activity..

Relics have always been casual content. A new or different way to zerg mobs til your eyes bleed doesn't change that.

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What is and isn't casual/hardcore is heavily subjective. For example:

You have one player that plays 14 hours a day until they barf, but doesn't clear anything considered endgame tier. That's 98 hours a week. Would you classify them as a casual gamer or a hardcore gamer?

Then on the other hand, you could have the raider log in, clear all content and get their Savage weeklies and even beat Ultimate Bahamut all within 5 hours and never be seen again for the rest of the week until reset. Would you classify them as a casual gamer or a hardcore gamer?

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

What is and isn't casual/hardcore is heavily subjective.

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Not really. We're talking about 2 different things:

Hardcore/casual gamers
Hardcore/casual content

Eureka is casual content. You do not have time or loot or party or gear restrictions, it's entirely completed at your own pace. If someone spends 23 of 24 hours grinding it out then they are "going at it hardcore". It doesn't make the content itself "hardcore".

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Not really. We're talking about 2 different things:

Hardcore/casual gamers
Hardcore/casual content

Eureka is casual content. You do not have time or loot or party restrictions, it's entirely completed at your own pace. If someone spends 23 of 24 hours grinding it out then they are "going at it hardcore". It doesn't make the content itself "hardcore".

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But the difficulty of said content is still subjective. What one person finds easy another may find hard. Generally, the "casual/hardcore" labels come from what the majority considers the difficulty to be. To which I would say that Eureka is neither. If I had to pick I would call it "Midcore" content. It's like PotD floor 150-200. Many consider PotD in it's entirety to be casual content but the difficulty for those that do not know jumps in the later floors. It takes skill to beat it. And if you're rocking PotD solo, I would deem the challenge to be more hardcore than any Savage content.

Right now while people are farming it in masses, it might look casual to some. But in a month or two when the content dies and someone wants to go inside, it'll feel like Savage to them taking on NM with only 2-3 parties in their instance.

This added to the death of Diadem. NM couldn't be killed by single parties. They need hundreds of people to be there. I know I would have still grinded Diadem if all I needed was my one single party.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

But the difficulty of said content is still subjective. What one person finds easy another may find hard. Generally, the "casual/hardcore" labels come from what the majority considers the difficulty to be. To which I would say that Eureka is neither. If I had to pick I would call it "Midcore" content. It's like PotD floor 150-200. Many consider PotD in it's entirety to be casual content but the difficulty for those that do not know jumps in the later floors. It takes skill to beat it. And if you're rocking PotD solo, I would deem the challenge to be more hardcore than any Savage content.

Right now while it people are farming it in masses, it might look casual to some. But in a month or two when the content dies and someone wants to go inside, it'll feel like Savage to them taking on NM with only 2-3 parties in their instance.

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Eureka is hardly midcore. Overall the mobs are weakerish than trash mobs in dungeons, but tougher than overworld mobs. Using the magia board properly makes enemies even easier. Some jobs such as RDM or any healer can keep themselves alive easily long enough to kill mobs 1 on 1. You don't need to be pro to solo Eureka, but you do need to be above amateur level.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

Eureka is hardly midcore. Overall the mobs are weakerish than trash mobs in dungeons, but tougher than overworld mobs. Using the magia board properly makes enemies even easier. Some jobs such as RDM or any healer can keep themselves alive easily long enough to kill mobs 1 on 1. You don't need to be pro to solo Eureka, but you do need to be above amateur level.

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The two things I bolded contradict each other.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

But the difficulty of said content is still subjective.

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I'd still disagree based on the fact there is typically little to no commitment involved with casual content. Difficulty should be weighted, I agree, but artificially making something more difficult by trying to solo still doesn't make the content hardcore. It's just a hardcore player. Sure, you have casual players raiding, but it takes a team of people to organize, schedule, practice, perfect their role within the content itself to down it in a reasonable amount of time. That's why the content is considered hardcore. You can't solo savage raids. Not even the old ones.

After going into the place, I can most certainly see HOW the dev. team meant for it to be played by the casual players, however, the great majority of the player base (at least in the NA data centers) do not behave like typical casual players.

Those that have any type of play time and are willing to give Eureka the time of day, are most likely going to drop almost everything else in the game to go to Eureka, effectively making any type of casual into a semi-hardcore players for Eureka only.

Those short few that are not willing to give Eureka that much attention but are still willing to go in and do stuff are a clear disadvantage, as the focusing casuals and the hard-core players will mix, raise their level and push the average level for activity there. Meaning that if you did not level up quickly like a great deal of the people, you are going to have a very, very, very hard time catching up since after certain level points (both above and below your level) stop giving exp altogether. There are alternative methods of leveling, but at the pace the people are moving, they won't help much.

This format of play is similar to something from FFXI, yes? I saw it mentioned a few times around the board and reddit. This type of format (the way it is now) is the bane of casual players. A true casual has no hope at all of staying in the relevant level range and getting any progress done. Especially with regards to the gear offered, which needs hundreds to thousands of those crystals to attain.

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Originally Posted by Rahdah

They should rename Boringka

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Or Diarheka?

JK. I actually am not minding Eureka

My 59 exp per mob kill solo out of 10,626 (.5% per kill) would disagree with you.

My mob getting stolen and me getting next to zero exp would disagree with you.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

The two things I bolded contradict each other.

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You do realize there is something between pro level and amateur level?

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

My 59 exp per mob kill solo out of 5060 (1.1%) would disagree with you.

My mob getting stolen and me getting next to zero exp would disagree with you.

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Why are you not joining a party?

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

This is a common problem I see with the two frequently-attributed definitions to the word "casual": in one sense, it means lower-skill or less effort; in another, it means "less time commitment". Caitlyn is saying it's not casual by virtue of the time commitment, you're saying it is casual by virtue of the lack of skill requirement.

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Oh right, you are very right about this. I often switch around, because people tend to say casuals = non skilled player, while casual can also mean the way you said it, how much they play. The grind might take a while but it's supposed to take a while and that's another way to keep people subbed too.

So I went to look up the word casual, since I am in disagreement with this content being causal.

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relaxed and unconcerned.

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Nope, just board, high end has to worry about unnecessary exp losses, so this can turn into stressful esp when a wondering monster just oneshots you fighting a NM.

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made or done without much thought or premeditation.

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I guess it can fit this, but then again I guess development in Eureka was causal. Is this what people really mean by Eureka being causal? The programing into it was casual?

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done or acting in a desultory way.

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It is pretty desultory there so id give it that.

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not regular or permanent, in particular.

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HERE!!! I FOUND IT ! diadem and Eureka are made to die within a week.

then I looked up casual gamer.

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Casual gamer: The term "casual gamer" is often used for gamers who primarily play casual games, but can also refer to gamers who play less frequently than other gamers.[16] Casual gamers may play games designed for ease of gameplay, or play more involved games in short sessions, or at a slower pace than hardcore gamers.[4] The types of game that casual gamers play vary, and they are less likely to own a dedicated video game console.[17][18] Notable examples of casual games include The Sims and Nintendogs.[19] Casual gamer demographics vary greatly from those of other video gamers, as the typical casual gamer is older and more predominantly female.[20] "Fitness gamer"s, who play motion-based exercise games, are also seen as casual gamers.[2

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This is NOT Eureka, it takes too much time to get anything done.

is it really tho? this is at least a step above general casual content. I don't really see this kind of grind as something that appeals to casual players. I mean if someone is gonna try to get all the weapons&armor, that's flipping hardcore. Also I don't think I've ever even seen as many dead people at once, till I did eureka lol. But yea its also not savage of course, or even ex. its just a different kind of "hard" I would say

For research purposes, my last instance killed sabotender with about 16 people (no new people were being added to the instance for some reason, so literally everybody in the zone was at the fate), so the fates do scale down like regular fates do, and earlier I was able to get solo gold from the bear on bard, and everything I wasn't as quick to get to (around the halfway mark, on average) I was getting solo silver, so one person can get something useful done, at least. The trick is following the zerg and not dying at the back of the pack. People are usually really good about spotting/raising stragglers, though.

How is it designed for casuals? You have to play it like its a drug to be able to get anywhere or to get anything accomplished. It is most certainly not for casuals. The old relic? That was for casuals.

Eureka is not something that someone with a playtime of <2 h a day or a few days a week can truly enjoy (IMO). First you need to be there for a time to level up enough to be part of the Fate Train and even helping with spawning the NM will take time and if you are bellow a certain level the fate might not even give you something (other than exp). How bad will this be if the hardcore grinders have their relic or are 20?

This is content for some players and I am not saying that you cant have fun with it. But the majority of the playerbase are still casuals and I am not really sure if this is content for them..and yet its all of us that lost dungeons for this.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

You mean how this forum explodes with the same old it sucks threads and comments and it's not worth it. There is nothing new here. The fact of the matter is the instances are full and people are running the content. I would love to see if they actually just rehashed the process of the last two relics and see how happy people would be.

i already have enough for two weapons and sorry but I'm actually having fun. I'm glad they changed it up.

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Yeah because Diadem 1+2 are totaly still alive and fine and the forum exploded for nothing over it too. Or the housing situation with exploded so much that SE finally did something that they had not even planned.

This is like the third day of the content. Even Diadem 2.0 was alive much longer..also it does have untradeable mounts and things like that. Lets talk about instances when we are like 1-2 months later. And not in the release week.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

How is it designed for casuals? You have to play it like its a drug to be able to get anywhere or to get anything accomplished. It is most certainly not for casuals. The old relic? That was for casuals.

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Well, what is a casual's goal in this game? Slow progress or fast? You can't achive things fast if you play only 2-3 hours a day and honestly the gear? It should been ilvl360 not 350/355. But here it goes, why does a casual player need good gear in this game, when their objective is to play at a steady phase? Having the best gear or not doesn't matter that much to a casual tbh.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

why does a casual player need good gear in this game, when their objective is to play at a steady phase? Having the best gear or not doesn't matter that much to a casual tbh.

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Never said they did. Was just responding to the thought that it ( Eureka ) is for casuals. I really don't think it is.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Well, what is a casual's goal in this game? Slow progress or fast? You can't achive things fast if you play only 2-3 hours a day and honestly the gear? It should been ilvl360 not 350/355. But here it goes, why does a casual player need good gear in this game, when their objective is to play at a steady phase? Having the best gear or not doesn't matter that much to a casual tbh.

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So why do you ask?

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

The two things I bolded contradict each other.

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Amateur level = Just starting the game, don't know much of anything. Believe it or not, some people can be Lv70 and still be amateur. Amateurs usually perform at a softcore level, nowhere near ready for midcore.
Pro Level = Know your job perfectly and can perform with it quite well. This makes you capable of tackling midcore and perhaps even hardcore (ultimate) content. Well beyond softcore.
In Between the 2 = Still getting to know your job but at least know basic mechanics. Softcore level, as this is not quite midcore.

In conclusion: Eureka is not quite difficult enough to be classified as midcore, so softcore players can still thrive there. However, you don't need to be a pro at your job to play in Eureka.


In case I'm still being vague or sounding contradictory; As far as I'm concerned midcore is EX/Savage content. Eureka is nowhere near even EX difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

Never said they did. Was just responding to the thought that it ( Eureka ) is for casuals. I really don't think it is.

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Or, it could just be casual content that SE missed the mark on. It certainly wasn't made for hardcore raiders.. That should be pretty obvious.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Well, what is a casual's goal in this game? Slow progress or fast? You can't achive things fast if you play only 2-3 hours a day and honestly thegear? It should been ilvl360 not 350/355. But here it goes, why does a casual player need good gear in this game, when their objective is to play at a steady phase? Having the best gear or not doesn't matter that much to a casual tbh.

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1. as the poster your responding to said, never said they did. It was just trying to explained that this content is not for causal play. Also keep in mind casual play is more how often one plays then skill level, you can be doing hardcore rotations and be a casual player. A causal player may just raid a few times a week for a few days a week.

If we are talking about only playing easier content, for whatever reason, those players still have a right to have something to feel accomplished on. FFXI was a time sink game but even causal play could feel pride after getting a job to max level back in the old pre treasures expand play. The problem with FFXIV is it does not address different play styles, want to craft? lock it behind MSQ, want to skip MSQ? too bad we make you watch CS. As developer you should be trying to appeal as many people as possible. People not doing salvage do not need 350 crafted gear or 360 tome gear but its there to get. I mean you need to give players different things to do with different ways of doing them, not hand holding them though one path like this game does expansion after expansion.

Look what I found what it means to be a causal player, you should be able feel progress in 1 to 2 hours of play not be level 4 after 2 hours of play and have a large part of the player base not do it anymore because they do not feel progress. This is a big fail and oversight by the development team and having 17 months I hear someone say to have it released well adds a bigger shock leaving me clueless how can you release no content after all this time for outdated gear?

Also consider that Eureka was released on the SAME DAY causal play, 5-10 mins a day for 7 weeks got you i360 weapon. How can you overlook something like that?!?!?!?!?! Also by now 1-2 hours a week for 7 weeks can easily get someone full 350 set by now be it a mix of crafted and normal exchanges, with some 360 gear and on the opening of Eureka.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Or, it could just be casual content that SE missed the mark on. It certainly wasn't made for hardcore raiders.. That should be pretty obvious.

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they had 17 months and multiple delays on this, how can you miss the mark after all that time? HOW?!!

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Or, it could just be casual content that SE missed the mark on. It certainly wasn't made for hardcore raiders.. That should be pretty obvious.

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Funny enough the only people running their face into the wall with this content, in my FC, are the raiders. The casuals don't want to touch it or go near it. That's whats going on in my FC anyhow.

I don't think I'm going to bother with it. And to be frank, I think I'll just skip the relic/anima/anemos BS entirely this expac.
After hearing some of my FC members describe it to me, I lost all interest. And given that I can't seem to pry anyone from my FC away from it for anything, I'm probably just going to unsub and wait for the next raid tier.

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Originally Posted by Hakuro89

I don't think I'm going to bother with it. And to be frank, I think I'll just skip the relic/anima/anemos BS entirely this expac.
After hearing some of my FC members describe it to me, I lost all interest. And given that I can't seem to pry anyone from my FC away from it for anything, I'm probably just going to unsub and wait for the next raid tier.

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That's a pretty harsh response for simply taking someone's word on something. Yes many people are complaining about Eureka but it isn't like it's the plague and going to infect the entire game, and it isn't like 100% of the playerbase hates it... If you gave it a chance and still had the same opinion that'd be 1 thing but saying you will actually unsub over opinions? That's pretty over-dramatic imo.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

That's a pretty harsh response for simply taking someone's word on something. Yes many people are complaining about Eureka but it isn't like it's the plague and going to infect the entire game, and it isn't like 100% of the playerbase hates it... If you gave it a chance and still had the same opinion that'd be 1 thing but saying you will actually unsub over opinions? That's pretty over-dramatic imo.

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It's really not, to be honest. I've never been really interested in the relic grind at all, and aside from Savage raiding there's nothing else that I really feel like doing. I'm not unsubbing because I don't like Eureka (I don't know how you came to that conclusion in the first place), I'm temporarily unsubbing because right now I feel like I'm paying to log on and do chores. I'm still standing by my original statement though, it doesn't look "fun" enough to warrant being the only reason to keep my sub going.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

Never said they did. Was just responding to the thought that it ( Eureka ) is for casuals. I really don't think it is.

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Because of the effort they have to do over a time?

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Originally Posted by Sesera

So why do you ask?

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I ask because some people have different opinions and I'd like to hear them?

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Because of the effort they have to do over a time?


I ask because some people have different opinions and I'd like to hear them?

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Well then because we don't really want to take forever to kill stuff or being completely useless when we do some group content for exemple.
I'll take WoW as an exemple. We don't need mythic gear but we want more than crappy green-bleues.