Developers, Please Address Samurai Kicking

The problem is purely on behalf of the community. The majority of content is already easy enough not to warrant this behavior. There's little if anything that the developers can do about that.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

What do you do tho, when the PF is open on DPS and because you're a "non-meta" class and you get kicked because of that, even when the PF did not define DPS jobs in particular?

if PF leader makes an open DPS slot and then kicks cuz he gets a sam or a blm, the one who joins isn't at fault.

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It might not be the BLM/SAMs fault, but that still doesnt mean that they're entitled to that slot. Its still the party of the partyleader and they decided what/who they want in their party. Opening a PF with open DPS slots doesnt mean they have to stick with whatever now - its not nice and its annoying and they should have set up the PF better if they wanted to exclude certain jobs, but by no means do they have to keep anyone in their party, they dont want their. Its still their party, their rules.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

It might not be the BLM/SAMs fault, but that still doesnt mean that they're entitled to that slot. Its still the party of the partyleader and they decided what/who they want in their party. Opening a PF with open DPS slots doesnt mean they have to stick with whatever now - its not nice and its annoying and they should have set up the PF better if they wanted to exclude certain jobs, but by no means do they have to keep anyone in their party, they dont want their. Its still their party, their rules.

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"it is what it is, but it isn't" got it. :)

BLM here, so I get the frustration.

Simply put, you're better off not in these parties. If you're getting kicked because "LOL SAM" then the party leaders are either or both of ignorant and want to be carried.

All you can really do is ignore it and try to not let it bother you.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

"it is what it is, but it isn't" got it. :)

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I love these hypocritical contradictions that people come up with....don't you? :)

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

I love these hypocritical contradictions that people come up with....don't you? :)

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I don't see it as hypocritical. I understand the reasoning, I just chose to let it be.

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Originally Posted by Hieral

Positive. Here you go. I may not be 100. But I don't suck at what I do. And this is only the stuff that's been uploaded.

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/character/356993/15/

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You still didn't answer Miste's post though, what was said in chat for those kicks? Are you assuming you were kicked for being a SAM or did they straight out point that out in chat?

The only times I've seen SAMs being kicked is when they refuse to use diversion.

I do feel sorry for OP if this is happening when party fills up.I think the issue is more down to leaders being lazy and not setting up pf correctly.If they dont want multiple melee dps etc all they have to do is set pf that way.Or change pf based on what jobs start filling in the dps POS.
As for the individual getting votekicked with BLM you have to be in the instance a while before kicking so this sounds to me you were kicked after a wipe or failing a dps check which could of resulted in them finding you with a lower ilvl weapon than they expect or possibly they parsed you and determined you were what made it fail.
Ofc it could be just that you failed some mechanics.Some of these pfs are very ragey and have no patience for wipes.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

This really reminds me of someone who went around claiming that 'Shadow Flare only tickles enemies' and 'Thunder is a waste of a spell and not needed in rotations' a few years ago without doing the math.

Also reminds me of rumours in high school, where it starts out with something small, and then becomes Purple Monkey Dishwasher

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There was also this lovely time at the beginning of SB where people were calling SMN dead, and when they got substantial buffs people whined that it wasn't anywhere near enough. Then when someone updated the way we track damage, it turns out SMN had the highest personal DPS in the game. Whoops /shrug

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

They technically are, but we're gonna disagree till the end of time, so we can leave it at that.

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I did not know that it was required to list out all requirements for the PF. Thank you for that info.

Playing samurai doesn't make you a good dps, making you a good dps is playing the class correct/good. Too many samurais does less than NIN and that's a crazy thing. I agree that people only kick samurai because of the sake of what others think of them, I have no issues with samurais, unless it's a speed comp group. But in most cases it's not so samurai is fine to have around, unless the player is really bad.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

The only times I've seen SAMs being kicked is when they refuse to use diversion.

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This is not a sam concern most of the time, more like dps concern.

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Originally Posted by Altera

This isnt just a SAM problem. I have encountered issued like this playing my BLM. I even got votekicked out of a EX Roulette as soon as everyone was loaded in :/

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I get that you want to be oppressed so bad but at least make sure your lie is possible. You can't be kicked before 5 minutes have passed in the duty.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

If you're with a DRG/NIN, aren't they also buffing the SAM?

SAM brings no utility. If they aren't doing the most damage in the party, they are a wasted slot. That's not trying to be elitist. That's how the job is designed. The only job a good SAM should have to fight against is a good BLM.

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I don't play NIN, but I've played with NINs. What buff are you talking about, as far as DRG goes? Battle Litany affects the whole party. If you're talking about the Sight, that's highly dependent on the DRG and who they choose to give the Sight to. Ideally, whomever is putting out the best DPS + has their own damage up buff.

I'm not arguing that SAM has no utility, but a SAM shouldn't be automatically kicked from an open DPS party finder group just because of that. If it's a premade, sure, do whatever you'd like. If you don't want a SAM, adjust the slots so you don't get a SAM entering your group. On that matter, BLMs don't bring any utility either. Yet I'm constantly seeing them in many groups progging through current endgame content.

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Originally Posted by Hieral

stuff

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It's not that you're being kicked because you are a SAM. You're being kicked because you have no abilities that can carry the slackers. Call me cynical, but I believe that these days, that if folks can leech, they will take whatever means they can get their hands on that can facilitate it.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I don't play NIN, but I've played with NINs. What buff are you talking about, as far as DRG goes? Battle Litany affects the whole party. If you're talking about the Sight, that's highly dependent on the DRG and who they choose to give the Sight to. Ideally, whomever is putting out the best DPS + has their own damage up buff.

I'm not arguing that SAM has no utility, but a SAM shouldn't be automatically kicked from an open DPS party finder group just because of that. If it's a premade, sure, do whatever you'd like. If you don't want a SAM, adjust the slots so you don't get a SAM entering your group. On that matter, BLMs don't bring any utility either. Yet I'm constantly seeing them in many groups progging through current endgame content.

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You stated a DRG/NIN team can own a good chunk of the dps so SAM can't be at top dps. To start, if you have a SAM with the NIN/DRG to compare, then isn't most of that utility going to boost the SAM's damage too? You even said it, Litany is aoe, and for NIN, Trick boosts everyone's damage.

And if you don't have a DRG/NIN team to compare in that party, why are you comparing someone to dps that aren't in the party? Shouldn't you focus more on how much they're doing in the party? When the AST is outdamaging the SAM maybe they shouldn't be in the party.

Difference in play style is a perfectly valid reason for kicking you out of the groups which they have created in the first place. You are the one that should be checking your privilege for going as far as reporting people for it.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

I get that you want to be oppressed so bad but at least make sure your lie is possible. You can't be kicked before 5 minutes have passed in the duty.

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I wrote shortly after as I admitted i remembered it wrong. It wasnt AS we loaded, but it was before we even did the first trash pull. Tank and Healer was DCed upon loading in. When they came back and we ran to the first trash mobs in the Temple of the Fist dungeon, they votekicked me as we ran up the first stair. I just said as we loaded as i remembered it was so early in the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Altera

I wrote shortly after as I admitted i remembered it wrong. It wasnt AS we loaded, but it was before we even did the first trash pull. Tank and Healer was DCed upon loading in. When they came back and we ran to the first trash mobs in the Temple of the Fist dungeon, they votekicked me as we ran up the first stair. I just said as we loaded as i remembered it was so early in the dungeon.

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Okay.

What was said in party chat before you were kicked? Do you have a screenshot of it?

Did they specifically say "we are vote kicking you because you are a BLM"?

You show me a person that'll kick me for being a SAM when I'm top of the parse and I'll show them my blacklist and middle finger.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

You stated a DRG/NIN team can own a good chunk of the dps so SAM can't be at top dps.

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I literally never said or implied that about a SAM. At all.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

You even said it, Litany is aoe, and for NIN, Trick boosts everyone's damage.

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I don't NIN (yet), but if I recall, you can only pull off a Trick at the beginning of a fight, because of Hide, right? If that's the case, the Trick only boosts damage if everybody is attacking from the rear. Which...doesn't really help classes that don't have rear potencies or True North.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

And if you don't have a DRG/NIN team to compare in that party, why are you comparing someone to dps that aren't in the party? Shouldn't you focus more on how much they're doing in the party? When the AST is outdamaging the SAM maybe they shouldn't be in the party.

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What are you talking about? Quit putting words in my mouth - you quoted me, you show me exactly where I am comparing things. Since you seem to be...I dunno, misquoting me, or picking words from wherever and just making arguments that I haven't even said, how about I clarify this (even though I thought I was pretty clear when I originally posted in this thread): if someone is willing to kick a SAM from a PF with no job restrictions aside from double classes, then that person is an idiot. If they don't want a SAM, then restrict the class before setting up a PF. If an AST is outdamaging a SAM, then that is a major problem on the part of the SAM because AST is more of a support healer than a damaging healer. Generally. But I have no idea why you even brought up the AST argument when I didn't even compare classes in the first place.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I don't NIN (yet), but if I recall, you can only pull off a Trick at the beginning of a fight, because of Hide, right? If that's the case, the Trick only boosts damage if everybody is attacking from the rear. Which...doesn't really help classes that don't have rear potencies or True North.

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Trick attack effects all damage on the boss for 10 seconds. You only have to be behind the boss or using true north to APPLY trick attack.

Also, you get the same effects as hide from suiton, which means every 60 seconds in a fight, you can use trick attack.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Trick attack effects all damage on the boss for 10 seconds. You only have to be behind the boss or using true north to APPLY trick attack.

Also, you get the same effects as hide from suiton, which means every 60 seconds in a fight, you can use trick attack.

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I kinda figured it was something like that. I only have experience as a Rogue, so I wasn't sure what NIN had.

I'm going to be bold and say, make your own group.

This goes for any mmo, if a class/job is stigmatized by an unintelligent playerbase then you just need to form your own group plain and simple, don't let a few scrubs discourage you.

“Developers, Please Address Samurai Kicking” ...

???

I took Samurai to 70 and left it alone, just as I’m doing with all the non-monk jobs. Did I do something egregious enough to warrant developer intervention? What was it?!?!?

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I kinda figured it was something like that. I only have experience as a Rogue, so I wasn't sure what NIN had.

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Just want to point out that attempting to sneak up on a boss doesn't work. They detect you and remove your Hide status before you get close enough to use TA. You might be able to get in TA if you Shukuchi + TA quickly enough but I doubt it. In order to make Hide more useful though SE added a new effect to it with SB: reset Ninjutsu cooldown when you successfully use Hide. So whether you actually get in the TA via hiding or not, hiding before a boss battle ensures you can get in a TA since Suiton can be used immediately.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

But I have no idea why you even brought up the AST argument when I didn't even compare classes in the first place.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

You obviously haven't seen what a really good BLM has been able to put out lately. Not to mention that with the right setup, a DRG/NIN team can outright own a good chunk of the DPS. If you are the type that kicks for a SAM not being in first place, then wow...

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That came off as comparing to me. We said they should be first and you brought up BLM and the DRG/NIN combo. Should the person leave SAM out of the list? Yes, I'm not going to argue that away. What could help is some more good SAM's though.

Since I gotta requote that comment about kicking SAM's that aren't top, what else does SAM bring besides dps? Why would I bring it instead of someone else I'm sure is going to do more damage and I know has group utility? If people want to play the cool SAM job, I have no issues. If they want to run that content, again no issue. If it feels like 95% of the playerbase can't play one properly though, I may start having an issue.

Actually it's sad when I have to farm o7n for the spring and I praise a party for not having a SAM because now people might move.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I don't NIN (yet), but if I recall, you can only pull off a Trick at the beginning of a fight, because of Hide, right? If that's the case, the Trick only boosts damage if everybody is attacking from the rear. Which...doesn't really help classes that don't have rear potencies or True North

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Thats not even kind of how Trick Attack works. At least look up the ability before talking about it.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

Just want to point out that attempting to sneak up on a boss doesn't work. They detect you and remove your Hide status before you get close enough to use TA. You might be able to get in TA if you Shukuchi + TA quickly enough but I doubt it. In order to make Hide more useful though SE added a new effect to it with SB: reset Ninjutsu cooldown when you successfully use Hide. So whether you actually get in the TA via hiding or not, hiding before a boss battle ensures you can get in a TA since Suiton can be used immediately.

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Gotcha, that makes sense. I can't really comment about NIN because I have no experience on the class - I leave that to those familiar with it to explain this to me :D

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

That came off as comparing to me.

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I am usually a very direct person. If I want to compare jobs, I would've compared jobs. Comparison was nowhere close to my original post, which brings me to...

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

We said they should be first and you brought up BLM and the DRG/NIN combo. Should the person leave SAM out of the list? Yes, I'm not going to argue that away. What could help is some more good SAM's though.

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I brought those up as examples. BLMs can literally turret down if they know the fight and nuke the hell out of a boss. I'm not arguing leaving a SAM off the PF list - that's the leader's group, it's their rules on whether or not to exclude SAMs. I have not disputed this. Again, and I am saying this once more - if the PF leader doesn't restrict the SAM job from their PF when they first set it up, then it's douchey behavior to kick a SAM as soon as they enter the PF. It's not against the rules, but it's kinda messed up at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Since I gotta requote that comment about kicking SAM's that aren't top, what else does SAM bring besides dps? Why would I bring it instead of someone else I'm sure is going to do more damage and I know has group utility? If people want to play the cool SAM job, I have no issues. If they want to run that content, again no issue. If it feels like 95% of the playerbase can't play one properly though, I may start having an issue.

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Then set up your PF to restrict SAM. I've been saying that this entire time. If you do a PF and leave the SAM slot open, don't act like one of those entitled pricks who automatically kick a job, because you're just wasting that player's time. If you don't want the job in your group, then make sure they can't join. If you fail to do that and they join, you don't know how good or bad they are until you jump into the instance (or you check their FFLOGS.)

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Thats not even kind of how Trick Attack works. At least look up the ability before talking about it.

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I was responding, and was promptly corrected on how Trick Attack works by Valkryie and Joe777...so yeah, maybe read what else was said before jumping on my case about this?

I mean... if they are kicking you from Byakko EX for playing SAM, you probably don't want to bother going in the first place. Generally players like that have high fail rates...

Next they'll say it was a SAM mentor that needed on my glamour for GC seals, the horror.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Okay.

What was said in party chat before you were kicked? Do you have a screenshot of it?

Did they specifically say "we are vote kicking you because you are a BLM"?

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No reason at all. We ran up stairs, then votekick window popped up stating I am AFK/Offline and I pretty much was pretty stunned by it and just sat there, Did this really just happen, and I did report them to the GMs for abuse of Votekick feature.

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Originally Posted by Altera

No reason at all. We ran up stairs, then votekick window popped up stating I am AFK/Offline and I pretty much was pretty stunned by it and just sat there, Did this really just happen, and I did report them to the GMs for abuse of Votekick feature.

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When you get vote kicked out of a party...it doesn't actually tell you why you got kicked or pop up any window. The person who is getting kicked, in this case you, would get no notification of that fact or why. You simply get removed from the duty after the vote passes (which you would be completely unaware of unless a party member mentions it in party chat) and it says "You have been dismissed from the duty".

So again you are either lying, trolling, or very confused. Every time you mention this so called kick you have the facts about how vote kick works very incorrect.

Even if we go with the "you're confused" route, there is still no proof you were kicked in this scenario for the sole reason that you were playing BLM and therefore your original post is simply a baseless assumption to encourage exaggerations about job discrimination. You can't just claim you know the motive for the kick when there are zero explanations from the players who did the kicking.

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Originally Posted by Altera

No reason at all. We ran up stairs, then votekick window popped up stating I am AFK/Offline and I pretty much was pretty stunned by it and just sat there, Did this really just happen, and I did report them to the GMs for abuse of Votekick feature.

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You can't see people trying to kick you, so this is either a lie or you obviously trying to trigger people in here. No offence but that straight pretty much saying you are lying.

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Originally Posted by Altera

No reason at all. We ran up stairs, then votekick window popped up stating I am AFK/Offline and I pretty much was pretty stunned by it and just sat there, Did this really just happen, and I did report them to the GMs for abuse of Votekick feature.

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That makes even less sense than the first lie .-.

I honestly don't know why people would lie about something. I don't get why they have to lie about something, just to satisfy someone elses opinion etc? Don't get me wrong, people do kick others for stupid reasons, but going as far to lie about it? Why?

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Originally Posted by Altera

I wrote shortly after as I admitted i remembered it wrong. It wasnt AS we loaded, but it was before we even did the first trash pull. Tank and Healer was DCed upon loading in. When they came back and we ran to the first trash mobs in the Temple of the Fist dungeon, they votekicked me as we ran up the first stair. I just said as we loaded as i remembered it was so early in the dungeon.

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Fun fact, there are no stairs before trashmobs in Temple. The first mob is litterally a short run infront of you when you zone in. If you're gonna lie, atleast make sure you know what you're talking about, just like when you said a window popped up you were kicked for afk/offline, there is no notification whatsoever about why you are kicked, you're simply just removed from the dungeon. So my guess is, you pulled the first trashpack and you single targeted the mobs instead of aoe'ing, valid enough reason to kick a BLM.

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Originally Posted by Miste

snip

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Oh my! Did they just get caught in a lie?!?! I didn't see this coming. I guess this is their second lie in this thread?

/thread

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Originally Posted by Beelhi

Fun fact, there are no stairs before trashmobs in Temple. The first mob is litterally a short run infront of you when you zone in. If you're gonna lie, atleast make sure you know what you're talking about, just like when you said a window popped up you were kicked for afk/offline, there is no notification whatsoever about why you are kicked, you're simply just removed from the dungeon. So my guess is, you pulled the first trashpack and you single targeted the mobs instead of aoe'ing, valid enough reason to kick a BLM.

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Actually, the first mob you see in Temple of the Fist does run up the set of stairs or ramp, can't remember which it is off the top of my head, to a pair of other coeurls...

But on the topic of not wanting a SAM a group, I could see some slight justification in that they can't really do anything other than just doing damage, they've got the least utility of all classes...

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Actually, the first mob you see in Temple of the Fist does run up the set of stairs or ramp, can't remember which it is off the top of my head, to a pair of other coeurls...

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I guess i took the "stairs" too literal and didn't include that ramp. Either way the story is fishy.

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Originally Posted by Hieral

Positive. Here you go. I may not be 100. But I don't suck at what I do. And this is only the stuff that's been uploaded.

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/character/356993/15/

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Fflogs doesn't mean you weren't rude or aggressive. There's no proof that people kicked you for being Samurai.