Plot migration and why the housing problem persists, SE please start listening.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Ah, but I know the reason. I'm not sure why FCs feel entitled to the larges. Smalls still give the workshop, gardening, private chambers, and so on.

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New players also seem to feel real entitled to the bigger plots. There is zero reason to be mad about personal relocation other than "I'm more entitled to it than you."

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Originally Posted by SeriousxSarcasm

It's meant to reward older players over new players I believe. If you've been playing a long time and actively trying to get a house, you could get one. I saw 2-3 plots open every week on my server (and that's just what I casually spotted from checking the aetheryte once in a while). Shirogane 1.0 EX was such a shitshow because of house flippers, and because we have all these people who've only been playing a couple months suddenly had the burning need to get in on the market (note: I knew many personally, and they would turn their nose up whenever I announced an empty plot because how dare you expect me to settle for this perfectly serviceable small). Why shouldn't the older (or less picky) house owners get better picks over someone that's only been around for a couple weeks? Yes in an ideal world everyone gets what they want (although I'm sure they'd still find something else the whine about - that it's not worth anything now that everyone can have it, probably), but idk. I find the biggest complaints about the wards/housing implementation itself come from younger peeps that've been playing less than a year.

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I agree with everything you said.

There are a ton of smalls open. Private purchases will begin soon. If you really want a house, there is no excuse other than laziness to get one. As for the better plots, work your way up to them like everyone else did. When you hit 70 on your job, you start with dungeon gear, upgrade to creation, then mendacity, then you raid. You don't just get raid gear for existing. I don't know why anyone thinks housing would work any differently.

So tired of the QQing.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

:rolleyes:

Oh the FC's probably want that large for the same reasons you do. More gardening spots, more crafting stations, more space to decorate & play with, etc...

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So the question is, then, how do we decide priority?

If you're going to say "FCs because members"... well what about people paying newbies to join up into an FC with them so they can buy a house? So then, should we up the minimum member count to something like 50+ active and separate service accounts, just to ensure proper utilization of large properties?

Of course, the same people that are complaining would probably still complain, since their FCs are probably not very big....

And if it's a small FC the argument doesn't work, because tenants+friends list access gives similar (and perhaps in cases greater) shared utilization.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Why? The plot they leave behind is open. Numerically, there's exactly as many plots available to FCs as if relocation were not allowed.

Ah, but I know the reason. I'm not sure why FCs feel entitled to the larges. Smalls still give the workshop, gardening, private chambers, and so on.

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To be fair: One could argue that a large house grants 3 gardening plots, while a small one only allows for one - and that an FC with more members needs more gardens to ensure supply for all of them. But that really seems like only the tiniest of reasons - specially when you consider that for example both me and our FC-leader are using our "personal" gardens for the FC. So... personal house doesnt has to mean personal gardens at the same.

Personally I also made (or rather: making) the experience that having a small FC-house allows for more people to decorate - sure, not everyone at once, but it makes it easier to "take turns". My FC used to have a small house and ever so often one of us would just re-do one floor. Now that we upgraded to a mansion I dont think thats gonna be as possible since things need to match more and the item limit is tighter etc.

But yes, all important FC-functions are available with a small house - I understand that cramping 30+ people into it at once doesnt look as nice or that it doesnt feel as great sharing a small house with that amount of players, but in the end I see no real reason why an FC shouldnt be fine with a small house aswell.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

:rolleyes:

Oh the FC's probably want that large for the same reasons you do. More gardening spots, more crafting stations, more space to decorate & play with, etc...

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...and how is this making them more entitled to large plots than individuals?
I agree that FCs are more entitled to a house in general since there is FC-content locked behind it. But they're not entitled to prime spots or mansions - the content is avialable even with a small house. Everything else is a luxury bonus for both the solo person and the FC.
(...crafting stations are so useless, they barely count as argument - and with the NPC increase you should be able to get one of each type into a small house aswell - so basically all the benefits are there)

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

The fact that Individuals are allowed to relocate is just plain dumb. They have a house already and should get no priority in being allowed to move whatsoever.

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So those who were forced to buy smalls when they had enough to buy mediums or larges should not be able to move because they already bought a small? Or those who bought a plot in Shirogane because the others were full, should not have the option to move to their preferred location? That's sounding so much more selfish to me. They even leave behind another open spot for someone else to buy.

I agree with the overwhelming sentiment of "housing is broken" but I don't think relocation is even part of the issue.

I relocated today. I wanted to wait a while to give any FCs that wanted to purchase a house in the new wards a chance to do so and I feel like I've done that at this point. My boyfriend and I have saved up our gil since 4.1 released and today we upgraded to a medium from our small.

I certainly think it would have been okay if they'd blocked out the first 24 hours or so to FC-only purchases and then began allowing relications but I also don't think the way things were handled this time around was bad. Other than the core flaws in the system (the limited numbers of houses being key among them) I wouldn't change anything about how these new wards were implimented.

Frankly I think I did deserve an advantage as someone relocating because when I relocate there is another house being added to the market where as when someone buys their first plot it's just taking from the already limited supply. I do wish there was no timer on the plot being relocated from - those should at least be up for grabs to FCs immediately.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

But yes, all important FC-functions are available with a small house

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Yeah. I understand these advantages. But before it was complaints that "We can't do FC crafting/buffs/airships/etc", which is now a complete nonissue. Every FC, right now, can get access to these things.

Also I sincerely doubt most FCs have 30+ members online concurrently and around the house. If you are one of those few then yes, I do feel for you. But I really doubt there's very many in that boat... and most just want a larger house for the luxury of it.

As others have said, complaining about relocation is an extension of: "But I wanted that plot and someone took it even though there are other plots available!" I'm not particularly sympathetic to this complaint.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

So those who were forced to buy smalls when they had enough to buy mediums or larges should not be able to move because they already bought a small? Or those who bought a plot in Shirogane because the others were full, should not have the option to move to their preferred location? That's sounding so much more selfish to me. They even leave behind another open spot for someone else to buy.

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This. And if (a large if, I know, because SE tends to switch focuses every patch) they continue this routine, it means that ppl can buy a house, even if it's not 'the one they want', and then they have a better chance at getting 'the one they want' when the next set goes live and they can transfer, instead of just having to fight the 5,000-15,000 player rush every single time. I feel like that's a worthwhile trade. My friend and I got a small in 4.1, although we had more than enough for a large, and we upgraded to our 'dream plot' (a medium) in 4.2. I hope that everyone who is able to get a new house in 4.2 will have the similar opportunity to upgrade the next time they give us more housing.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Yeah. I understand these advantages. But before it was complaints that "We can't do FC crafting/buffs/airships/etc", which is now a complete nonissue. Every FC, right now, can get access to these things.

Also I sincerely doubt most FCs have 30+ members online concurrently and around the house. If you are one of those few then yes, I do feel for you. But I really doubt there's very many in that boat... and most just want a larger house for the luxury of it.

As others have said, complaining about relocation is an extension of: "But I wanted that plot and someone took it even though there are other plots available!" I'm not particularly sympathetic to this complaint.

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Oh yeah, I totally agree - I hope that was clear from my posts and that you're not disagreeing with me here xD

This whole thread really reminds me of this fairytale with the fisher who catches the magic fish and the fish tells him "If you let me live, I'll grant you a wish!"
And since the fisher is a kind old man, he lets the fish live even without wishing anything. But when he goes home and tells his wife she goes "Oh, you should have asked for a better house and some gold!" (I'm not making that part about the house up! The person who thought of the fairytale did! Quite ironic...)
So the fisher goes back the next day, finds the fish again and tells him what the wife asked for. And teh fish grants the wish.
When the man comes home, he finds his little fishing-hut transformed into a nice little house... and his wife unhappy "If the fish could do that, he could have given us an even better house! Go back tomorrow and ask for that!"
...and he does...
And that goes one for a while until the fish is fed up and takes everything away from them. The end.

Doubt thats gonna happen here, but my sympathy lies with the fish...

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Originally Posted by Vidu

This whole thread really reminds me of this fairytale with the fisher who catches the magic fish and the fish tells him "If you let me live, I'll grant you a wish!"

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Is it sad that.. Instead of the "If you keep begging you'll end up with nothing" moral of the story, I end up seeing "Never listen to your wife" as the moral instead. :x

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

So the question is, then, how do we decide priority?

If you're going to say "FCs because members"... well what about people paying newbies to join up into an FC with them so they can buy a house? So then, should we up the minimum member count to something like 50+ active and separate service accounts, just to ensure proper utilization of large properties?

Of course, the same people that are complaining would probably still complain, since their FCs are probably not very big....

And if it's a small FC the argument doesn't work, because tenants+friends list access gives similar (and perhaps in cases greater) shared utilization.

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*smh*

Your assertion was that fc's should be content with smalls, my comment was pointing out why they wouldn't be and would desire a large like you.

The question of priority has already been answered, first come first serve, and with this patch no new individual players thus allowing FC's more of a priority until they unlock it for all.

Arguing over utilization is also pointless.

The real question is when are we going to see a real fix and enough housing for all FC's and individuals?

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

The real question is when are we going to see a real fix and enough housing for all individuals?

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Seeing as how they consider Apartments to be housing, I think never.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Is it sad that.. Instead of the "If you keep begging you'll end up with nothing" moral of the story, I end up seeing "Never listen to your wife" as the moral instead. :x

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Only if you have a wife, I think? If you dont you could be sad about that (while maybe opening a thread on how wives should be accessible to everyone and that even then you wont settle for anything but blond, blue eyes and 60-90-60 figure) and then about seeing this moral (first) - I honestly believe that both were intended... you know, fairytales with evil witches, evil stepmoms and nasty wives... wouldnt surprise me if the authors/story tellers were just afraid of the women in their lives. But this shouldnt end up in a discussion about morals of fairytales!

Take home message in either way: Dont be greedy and dont listen to your wife if shes greedy!

Please note that this is intended as a joke - no insult or harm meant!

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

The question of priority has already been answered, first come first serve, and with this patch no new individual players thus allowing FC's more of a priority until they unlock it for all.

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You're describing what it is now. There are those here that are petitioning for change, particularly for increasing restrictions.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

Arguing over utilization is also pointless.

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Not for the above.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

The real question is when are we going to see a real fix and enough housing for all FC's and individuals?

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Now this is the real issue. But for whatever reason, SE can't or won't. There's probably some very convoluted technical/infrastructure reason or problem that stops them from cloning other MMO systems that automatically expands the number of available wards as they fill, and prevents them from letting anyone have an instanced house, etc etc.

I relocated my small house in LB to a medium house in LB.

Why does the person with a house not deserve the chance to upgrade to a house they want, just because someone else wants it too. That's not fair all all. We worked for those houses and we deserve them too. We pay for it and a moving fee.

People are veiling these arguments as "I just want a house for my fc and can't get it." but what you're really saying is "I want the best plots, but I don't want to have to fight everyone else for it." Which IMO, if you're not willing to, I don't really think you deserve it.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

The fact that Individuals are allowed to relocate is just plain dumb. They have a house already and should get no priority in being allowed to move whatsoever. FCs I'm willing to letting go but why punish people trying to get the house they want? It's not their fault that they came into a patch prepared to rush and grab their house? First come, first served.

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So saying people with a house already have what they want? Don't you think maybe someone picked a plot because it was pick it or have nothing? and your telling THEM it is unfair to move? sorry with the extra cost with moving they should get priority. Giving current owners a priority. of moving DOES NOT EFFECT new buyers. A plot opens up for them to buy if they wish.

How is current owners being able to relocate a problem outside to entitlement?

Sorry OP, but I don't care about the "hot new thing" that is Shirogane housing. When I joined the Balmung housing rush in HW, I was aiming for a specific small plot in the Lavender Beds. Due to messing up on logging in (lobby server was up, but the world servers weren't, resulting in a 90k + 400ish queue), I ended up grabbing one of the last few remaining small plots.

While I was already happy having obtained a house on such a busy server, and the plot definitely wasn't a bad one, I was even happier that 4.2 allowed me to relocate to the plot I actually wanted.

Browsing on Reddit, I saw someone actually make a suggestion I thought was pretty good:

—Make all plots upgradable to all sizes.

I think that would be a good solution. Have plots keep their current Grade ratings, and when someone goes to purchase one, they can have the option to purchase the plot as a small plot, a medium plot, or a large plot. And then pay the respective price based off of the Grade + Plot Type they want to purchase.

Wishful thinking, hoping the developers decide to implement a system like this, but I feel like it could be a compromise to the various complaints surrounding the limited number of mediums/larges versus the large number of smalls there are.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

So those who were forced to buy smalls when they had enough to buy mediums or larges should not be able to move because they already bought a small? Or those who bought a plot in Shirogane because the others were full, should not have the option to move to their preferred location? That's sounding so much more selfish to me. They even leave behind another open spot for someone else to buy.

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No one forced them that they needed to buy a plot just to have the house. I still stand by my stance that relocating shouldn't have been an option initially. You can augre about those who wanted a better plot but that doesn't change the fact for those who wanted a certain plot still can't and are left with the not so great plots. No matter how you slice it, it's lose lose on either side.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

—Make all plots upgradable to all sizes.

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This I fully support and would love to see be implemented.

This thread seem selfish.... Sigh

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with relocation. I mean it leaves the previous plot open so it's not like the plot is also occupied. And lower cost? Barely.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

No one forced them that they needed to buy a plot just to have the house.

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So after asking "why punish people trying to get the house they want" you go ahead and ask them to punish people for wanting to move to the house they want? That's uh... yeah. Yes, no one forced us to buy the plot we didn't want, BUT we wanted housing, we wanted a place to call our own, and if what we wanted wasn't available, we were happy enough at the time to settle because we knew that we could still fight for our dream plots the next time. If you only want a house due to it's location or size, then you seriously don't want a house. Sure you can want them and dream of having those plots, but that being the only reason and stopping you from buying another means you are a spoilt one. If you want a house, damn well make do with what you can get and try again later, like we did. Our desire was for a house, our dream was for certain plots.

To those who don't see the issue with relocating, are not seeing it from the prospective of someone who doesn't own a house. I'll use myself as an example:

I want to buy a Medium House. 4.2 rolls out and only allows for FC purchases and relocating for owners of a house. New/Old FCs come in and buy or relocate to a big house. Keep in mind that Large and Medium Houses are very limited compare to Small Houses. Let's say they bought/relocate to about 60% of the larger houses. Now for the individuals who own a house, are looking to upgrade/relocate their Small Houses as well. Keep in mind, relocation is still readying available to others who now see a plot that they want now open. That's more larger houses I no longer will have access to as well. I'm not saying everyone is looking to buy a bigger house but it now takes away more options from me when others upgrade their house or shuffle around houses because everyone who owns a house, is free to do it with no restriction. The house I want to get, may no longer be an option because the plots I had an eye for, are taken now, leaving a lot more small plots open or for me to now look into other areas that might still have larger houses available. This isn't fair to individuals who were looking to buy a bigger house. We still gotta compete with other individuals who are also looking to buy a bigger house, with now less options.

Relocating for individuals should've been opened at the same time to individuals who don't have a house. This would've been more fair to non-FC Players because now, everyone would've had an equal opportunity rather then to those who don't have a house, are left with leftovers and it may not be exactly what you want. While I'm not force to buy a Small House, I'm also not gonna just buy any random house to just have it.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

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Everyone has their reason for buying what they want. If you chose to buy a house because you wanted gardening or etc... That's fine but again, they already own a plot to call home if they want to or not. How my reasoning for wanting a plot I want, is no different then the person next to me. You call me spoil and that's fine, but I still stand by my belief on the issue.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

To those who don't see the issue with relocating, are not seeing it from the prospective of someone who doesn't own a house. I'll use myself as an example

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Ok... refer to my post at the start of this page. WE wanted bigger houses when we originally bought plots. WE fought for our plots and took what we could get. YOU can fight for a smaller house and then fight for a larger house just like we did. Stop looking only for the bigger plots, you have less chance for them either way it goes about. Open up and seek out any kind of house, at least you HAVE a house then and you're in the playing field for the next round. Stop trying to punish those who didn't get the plot they wanted either but had the correct mindset of wanting a house for a house, and dreaming of a plot as a long term goal.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I'm also not gonna just buy any random house to just have it.

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I'm sorry, but you quite clearly don't actually want a house, and from my perspective don't deserve one either if you aren't willing to play the housing game as we did.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

my reasoning for wanting a plot I want, is no different then the person next to me.

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Same as us. We just know to take what we can get and work for better. If you just want the best straight off, it's a whole world of hurt for you.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

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Let's just be clear, the ability to relocate was just literally introduced one major patch ago. 4.2 no longer allows you to buy more than one house, meaning you are forced to use the relocation function.

I will still say that since someone already a house, they shouldn't be allow to relocate right off the back. That's not fair to those who don't own a house. People who don't have a house, should've been second in-line after the FC restrictions. Let's be clear that I'm not saying FCs shouldn't be allowed to relocate. I still feel that it should've been FC restrictions first and then no restrictions to all.

I don't think that relocations needed to have priority over privates other than for FC as well. On the other hand I'm not sure they could turn it on or off that easily for one group and not the other. Allowing relocations on the other hand will reduce server stress when they do open it up for individuals given that population won't be in the running to log on and they did after all not take a spot away given they gave up one to get one.

Relative to housing and smalls I think a lot of people under rate the ability of being able to do some pretty neat things deco wise with small homes. Spend some time at https://housingsnap.com/

I also think that relocations are here to stay so anyone passing up a not my dream location so I won't get it is making a mistake. Sure it will cost additional money later on to relocate but at least you'll be in the housing game.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I will still say that since someone already a house, they shouldn't be allow to relocate right off the back. That's not fair to those who don't own a house. People who don't have a house, should've been second in-line after the FC restrictions.

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We leave behind a plot when we relocate, THAT is why we are allowed to right off the bat. We gain a new plot and leave one behind FOR YOU. Sure it might not be the ideal plot of your dreams, but it's a house, you can use the functions of a house and later on, when new wards and all are opened, try again! At least you have a house already to fall back on if you don't get it that time either. You can argue all you want, but SE sees that much from our viewpoint too. We relocate to our dream plot, and you guys have the same number of plots to go towards.

And for the sake of it, even if we couldn't relocate, you wouldn't be able to get a medium or large either since FCs would of taken them all.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Talks about house.

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Ok I get this but you talk about moving to your dream plot at some point. How is that any different from in the past when everyone bone rush for their House. The only reason your way works, is cuz of the current restrictions. With that current restriction, anyone with a House, can still relocate freely. I can't do anything til SE removes the restriction. How does anyone with a Plot, have any more right to a Plot than someone without a House?

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I can't do anything til SE removes the restriction.

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You can buy a small and be happy you got a house? Happy that you have a foot in the door to relocate next time? Happier even that it should be even easier? We'd of been doing the same even if no restrictions were there, and if it was FC only, we again would of been ok since we had a house at least. You should be happy with what you can get, not shove what you're given in the dirt because you wanted more. We all have dreams for better, but we took what we could and got our foot in, even if we didn't know so much at the time.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

How does anyone with a Plot, have any more right to a Plot than someone without a House?

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Yet-a-goddamn-gain. We LEAVE behind a house for YOU. What is so hard to understand about that? We move, and there is the exact same number of open plots. You move in, that's one less plot for another.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

To those who don't see the issue with relocating, are not seeing it from the prospective of someone who doesn't own a house. I'll use myself as an example:

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It is an entitlement issue, no you are not entitled to a house. i hate to sound harsh but I am going to give you a reality check. I need to repeat, it is completely fair to have current owners have priority in relocating, it does not effect your ability to get a new house at all since a plot opens up. People want to relocate because it is really likely they where forced into a plot they did not want in the first place, guess what? you are put in the same situation they went though when they first bought one. No you do not have more rights to a Med then a current person owning a house, I hate to break that to you, but you need to also keep in mind relocation are putting a lot more gil in buying housing then you are, they get priority, accept that and accept that this post was made from blind entitlement issue on your part.

You are not entitled to a house in the current system when they can only give out so many. Given this point, SE made housing too cheap. If housing was meant for FCs mainly, this means giving out prices for houses that reflect people pooling gil together, this means something like 50 mil for small, 100 mil for med and 150 mil for large (prices need to very depending on gil per server) They need prices to match the supply they can give, otherwise you end up with this shortage nonsense they got currently.

It would been much better if they had an instance system for personal and the current wards for FC. SE messed up housing in several ways:
-housing too cheap in comparison of the supply they are able to give
-letting people muti-box for housing
-4 people per fc to buy a house is not strict enough
-encourage people to tenant more

They should address the house hording for resell long ago, Why didn't they give the update we have now once they released subwards or have this change in HW release?

For the record I do not have a horse in this race. I do not have a house, I do not want to deal with the nonsense, I just want a system most fair to people.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

To those who don't see the issue with relocating, are not seeing it from the prospective of someone who doesn't own a house. I'll use myself as an example:

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In your stubbornness, you're failing to see the issue from a private owner's perspective.

Let me put it this way: If private owners were blocked from relocating while FCs took their pick, no private owner would ever have a dream of owning a medium/large. I guarantee you that all the best spots would still be snatched up. The only difference is that you'd never have a chance to compete. You would still be angry.

Buying a small is your ticket to play. If you don't want to play, you don't deserve it.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Relocating for individuals should've been opened at the same time to individuals who don't have a house. This would've been more fair to non-FC Players because now, everyone would've had an equal opportunity rather then to those who don't have a house, are left with leftovers and it may not be exactly what you want.

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This part I can agree with. I think they just didn't have time to lock down the relocation code before they had to be green lit for 4.2 releasing.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

This part I can agree with. I think they just didn't have time to lock down the relocation code before they had to be green lit for 4.2 releasing.

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They left relocation open because relocation leaves the exact same number of plots open. I'm failing to understand why people can't grasp this.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

For the record I do not have a horse in this race. I do not have a house, I do not want to deal with the nonsense, I just want a system most fair to people.

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A system that is fair for everyone.
Sadly, it seems we'll never get such a system.
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No matter what at this point there always going to be a group of people that are unhappy with the way things are ran. While I finally now got my large house after years of trying and having a small house, I'm still unhappy with the way things are ran and how it unfair to other players.

I understand that pain of having to "deal" with what I could get. Even shelled out 30mil for that small house just so I had something. It wasn't what I wanted, but what I got, now got me what I wanted after failing hardcore in 4.1 to relocate. That not taking into account that since housing came out, I've endlessly tried at every patch that added housing to get what I wanted and learned to settle.

I can't feel sorry for those who won't take what they can get and then come crying on the forums about it. You all know the relocation system there. Get a small house (when personal buying does become available) and hope you can move up later to the size you want. That just how it goes. Any size is better then no house at all.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Yet-a-goddamn-gain. We LEAVE behind a house for YOU. What is so hard to understand about that? We move, and there is the exact same number of open plots. You move in, that's one less plot for another.

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Originally Posted by Reyn

Let me put it this way: If private owners were blocked from relocating while FCs took their pick, no private owner would ever have a dream of owning a medium/large. I guarantee you that all the best spots would still be snatched up. The only difference is that you'd never have a chance to compete. You would still be angry.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Housing.

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If they went with instance housing in the beginning, yeah it would've solved a lot of issues but that didn't happen. If anything, they shouldn't have had the need to add Apartments if they allowed us to customized our Inn Room. You're right tho, making FC Housing and Personal Housing the same was one of the biggest mistakes they ever did. I completely agree on that front. The Housing Limitation should've definitely been there since the beginning but alas, they didn't go this route.

All you guys make valid points but that doesn't change the fact that I don't agree with how anyone with a House, is allowed to snatch the plot they wanted from before. If anything, I'll be honest and say that I found the no restrictions much better than it is now (Minus the buying of only one Personal and one FC). I respect all your points but this feels more like a punishment to people couldn't get a house because of XYZ.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

A system that is fair for everyone.
Sadly, it seems we'll never get such a system.
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No matter what at this point there always going to be a group of people that are unhappy with the way things are ran. While I finally now got my large house after years of trying and having a small house, I'm still unhappy with the way things are ran and how it unfair to other players.

I understand that pain of having to "deal" with what I could get. Even shelled out 30mil for that small house just so I had something. It wasn't what I wanted, but what I got, now got me what I wanted after failing hardcore in 4.1 to relocate. That not taking into account that since housing came out, I've endlessly tried at every patch that added housing to get what I wanted and learned to settle.

I can't feel sorry for those who won't take what they can get and then come crying on the forums about it. You all know the relocation system there. Get a small house (when personal buying does become available) and hope you can move up later to the size you want. That just how it goes. Any size is better then no house at all.

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Reread the line, i said most fair, not fair.

When you have limited resource like housing, it is up to SE to make it most fair, I/E making the price high enough so there is no shortage, in a most fair system, people that put the most effort in earning gil (or group of people) are the ones that get a house.

Last part is correct, that is something FallenArisen0990, the person I was replying to, does not understand

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

If they went with instance housing in the beginning, yeah it would've solved a lot of issues but that didn't happen. If anything, they shouldn't have had the need to add Apartments if they allowed us to customized our Inn Room. You're right tho, making FC Housing and Personal Housing the same was one of the biggest mistakes they ever did. I completely agree on that front. The Housing Limitation should've definitely been there since the beginning but alas, they didn't go this route.

All you guys make valid points but that doesn't change the fact that I don't agree with how anyone with a House, is allowed to snatch the plot they wanted from before. If anything, I'll be honest and say that I found the no restrictions much better than it is now (Minus the buying of only one Personal and one FC). I respect all your points but this feels more like a punishment to people couldn't get a house because of XYZ.

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Again, for whatever reason they can't give everyone a house, that means you need to limit who gets them. In the current situation, yes relocation gets priority, they are effectively spending more then intended to have a house then new buyers sooo....

If I may I can turn the tables on your own statement. You are punishing current housing owners already, like if you bought a large because that is all there is left, but want a better location and got it with this update, you are spending 70-95 M on a house total (depending on the move between plot grades) and plot grades are not even fair, they change depending if it is a sub ward or main ward even if it is the same plot, they move around what is considered prime. Relocation is already punishing current housing owners because of the increased cost, the only people that do not feel it much is those moving from smalls to something else, even then it is still an increased cost around 2-3M. Most punishing thing in this system is large> large movers.

Sorry but increased cost = priority, always

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

They left relocation open because relocation leaves the exact same number of plots open. I'm failing to understand why people can't grasp this.

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You assume that's why they left it open. I can accept that's a possibility, but they haven't said that themselves. It shouldn't matter if it frees up a slot. As someone else said you had to have a ticket to play the game, but there weren't enough tickets to allow everyone at a shot. Just because someone couldn't get in on housing during the initial rush of the last round, doesn't mean they shouldn't get a chance at whatever desired plots were left after the fcs were finished. I understand that means there would likely be no desirable plots at that point, but that's on Square for not only continuing with this limited ward system, but designing a new ward from the ground up with the same size limitations despite growing desire for larger plots. FCs were put on equal footing at the start new wards at least, personals were not.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

If they went with instance housing in the beginning

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...are you sure about that?
I thought so for a while aswell but this thread (and the stand of you and people with a similar mindset) made me doubt that a little bit by now.
You seem to have a very specific plot in mind that you want - probably for the view/surrondings aswell. Your dream plot.
...what if the instanced houses arent resmebling your dream plot? :O
Will you be back to ask for the instanced houses to all look like Shirogane-30? And will we see another person who'd prefer Shirogane-16?
(I will admit that they could release different "sets" there, but my point mainly is: people will always be unhappy... this thread is, again, a prime example going from "I just want a house!" to "eeek, I wont even consider a small one!" in just a few weeks... or at least thats my impression of housing-complains)

Instanced housing would probably fix a few issues. But the issue of "I wont settle for anything but my dream plot!" is something instanced housing cant fix either.
Relocating isnt robbing you of the chance to get a house. Its probably not even really robbing you have the chance to get the house you wanted - if someone hadnt relocated there, an FC would have probably bought that large/medium plot...

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I respect all your points but this feels more like a punishment to people couldn't get a house because of XYZ.

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Whole system is a punishment to everyone. No matter what restrictions they put up, don't put up, etc it a punishment. Even people who have a house are still under punishment. Why? Because of Auto-demo. We're not allowed to take extended breaks from the game, we aren't allowed to have life happen. If life happens, oh well, goodbye to your house. Have something really bad happen to the point you can't even get on 35 days after your house has been demo, to bad, goodbye all your gil and housing items. Hope you didn't have money put into any housing items that were from the mogstation because that just went bye bye also.

Point is: the system a punishment because SE can't get their act together and do something right that is fair to everyone. Restrictions, restrictions, restrictions. All on a game we pay to play and should deserve the right to keep the things we worked hard for.

We're all a victim to this horrible housing system but again, if you aren't willing to settle for what you can get, I can't really feel sorry. A lot of us that relocated settled for what we could get our hands on. I think in a way we deserve it. Is it fair to you? No, of course not! It not fair to anyone, but that just how SE rolls. Do I agree with it? No, even if it did work in my favor this time.

I played the housing game and it taken me years to finally get what I wanted.


And @Vstarstruck - No, I know what you were saying and the reasons behind this stupidness, but what I'm saying is they need to just stop this bs and make the system fair for everyone. However, it not going to happen because it would take them actually having to up the resource and redoing the whole thing. We know that not going to happen. So this is how the system going to roll.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

It shouldn't matter if it frees up a slot. As someone else said you had to have a ticket to play the game, but there weren't enough tickets to allow everyone at a shot.

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Ok, lets keep this ticket thing here. So, the house is the ticket as you have said, and we left behind our ticket for someone else to use. See how this is working? You can play the game next time as long as you pick up one of those many tickets still going.

I just think some players are burnt they couldn't get what they wanted in Shirogane!...

I tried to get a large plot in Shirogane but somebody else took it first and that just made me realize I really don't like the new housing area, in fact I find it to be one of the cheapest looking ones, I still managed to move from the loveliest medium plot to an adjacent large one in the Lavender Beds which is okay but not as sweet as my previous house!...

The relocation system is fine as it is right now, it wouldn't matter if it didn't have the 30% off the normal price because it doesn't make much of a difference and it wouldn't stop players from moving!...

Having 18 wards now has served to demonstrate a couple of things, there really isn't much FC demand for plots and that the Goblet is the ugliest housing area in the game because it has the largest amount of free plots, at least in my server!...