Yoshi-P making a big mistake with what yall doing the housing

This has got to be a troll post, right? .. Right?

If houses weren't finite this would not even be an issue, but alas, that being said...Majority of houses at this moment belong to individual players. FCs need to be given the first shot because important content is gated behind housing for FCs! Not to mention a single house benefits many more players to an FC than it does to an individual owner.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

SE apparently cant give us what we want - unlimited housing

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and this is just MISERABLE in a subbased game. even free2play games can solve this problem.

OP, as a player without personal house, I think it is completely fair that FCs are getting first dibs. FC housing services more players, which is best available trade off when housing is a limited as it currently is and will be for the foreseeable future.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

Then you're in the wrong FCs. I let any of my members use the gardens all they have to do is ask. Mind you only one person has the ability to use them at a time to prevent trolls griefing ( removing ) / stealing plants. Finding the right FC can take time. Most FC leaders & officers are greedy when it comes to gardens/workshops when there is no need to be. So I don't disagree that most FCs are indeed exactly like what you've stated.

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It's not so much the wrong FC and the FC owners are not typically greedy SOBs. Too many FCs have been burned by "trusted" members and SE has done next to nothing to police these actions in the past. There is just a culture of fear due to no restitution options available.

I am no better than the next FC leadership member in regards to this because we have been burned before. Lost several million gil, chest items and our house was demolished. It was pretty bad and when we complained the response was basically "Tough luck. Learn and move on."
Our lowest rank is restrictive, pretty much on Chocobo stable and general house access only. We only keep people at that rank for about a week or two to give them enough time to leave us for somewhere if we are not a fit.
Our next rank allows purchasing and execution of FC actions, and garden planting.
Our next rank allows furniture placement, orchestration, and some FC chest removal permissions.
After this point you into the leadership ranks, which have unfettered access.

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Originally Posted by Niqote

It’s my assumption that they did this because they won’t be allowed to have multiple characters on the same servers in a FC together, thus denying them of the precious convenience of trading millions of Gil to each other in a flash via the FC chest. The new restrictions are a pretty big pain in the tail for RMTers, so that's a good thing at least!

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There is another significant reason the RMTs are making "fake FCs". The RMTs planning on selling the plots for profit now must deal with a random plot repurchase timer; which does not "guarantee" the buyer access to the demolished plot. The buyer will have to join the FC and just purchase the FC as whole and get the house instantly. FC selling has always been allowed and the RMT are just moving more aggressively in that direction, in comparison to the past.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

Then you're in the wrong FCs. I let any of my members use the gardens all they have to do is ask. Mind you only one person has the ability to use them at a time to prevent trolls griefing ( removing ) / stealing plants. Finding the right FC can take time. Most FC leaders & officers are greedy when it comes to gardens/workshops when there is no need to be. So I don't disagree that most FCs are indeed exactly like what you've stated.

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FC's who restrict access too gardens/workshops/house decorating do it too avoid drama and theft. The bigger an FC is the more likey drama and theft will occur with in the FC. There is a limit too how far granting access can go once you hit that limit you got two choices. Swim in the drama and like it, or Restrict access and completely avoid the drama all togather. Even your method of handling will only work up too a point; then you yourself will say screw this and limit who has access.

FC rooms cost 300k from what I remember. Apartments cost 500k. It's only a extra 200k for the apartment and you get to KEEP THE APARTMENT FOREVER (unless you change servers and or want to move to another residential district but you can just buy another one anyway).

With FC's, if s**t goes down, you get kicked from a FC and or you don't like the FC and want to leave but already invested in a FC room, it's a waste of gil, hence why people should just save up for apartments of their own

FC's getting first dibs is meh imo. Let people get their own personal place first, then open up to FC's getting their places.

Or even better...maybe as some have said...give the players what they want unlimited housing (like FFXI). Making more wards won't change or solve anything and this process will keep repeating itself in a endless loop til yoshi-fail finally mans up and actually listen to the concerns of his players.

/2 cents

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Originally Posted by EmmaVirgin

and this is just MISERABLE in a subbased game. even free2play games can solve this problem.

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Probably because they set it up differently from the start.

Mistakes have been made here, yes - no on is denying that, not even SE/the devs themself or they wouldnt have started working on solutions and fixes.
You know what? Sometimes I'm getting the impression that a bad housing system is excatly what some people want because it gives them another reason to complain - as I said before: This complaint has been made over and over again and they've started working on it. I dont want to whiteknight here, but I'm so sick of people just yelling and shouting and complaining - and while doing all of that totally overlooking any progress and failing to see that "Just give us unlimited wards" isnt working. Might be working in other games, doesnt mean its working here - and they've made it pretty clear that it is indeed not possible.
Threads and post like these, when there are excisting threads along with the devs very clearly looking into the whole issue are only serving one purpose: Venting. And that doesnt need a new thread each time, which is whats bothering me here a little...

When the housing system was set up, it wasnt meant for everyone to have a house - I dont know why, but the devs wanted this to be an FC-thing. Maybe even to meet player-demand of more FC-content (something they did with airships and Diadem... and guess what: People, who wanted more FC-content, complained. Or at least there were people, who wanted more FC-content and people, who complained when we got it. Not sure if those people are the same or two groups or a mix of both).
Anyways, FC-only housing would have been fine, specially with the gil-sink that it really, really was back then.
Then people complained because they wanted personal houses and back then it was still a huge gil-sink, so not everyone who played through the mainstory and never touched a crafter in their life had enough gil to buy a house.
The inflation happend. And they lowered the housing-prices. And you know what? I'd call that their biggest mistake: Creating the illusion that everyone has the gil to buy a house. Aka the illusion that everyone should have a house. Something that was never meant to be. Something thats just not possible with the current system because the current system was set up with something different in mind.

But what do we do now? Just delete housing alltogether? Eliminate the whole system? Or maybe, just maybe, sit tight and remind ourselves that they've realised that there is an issue and are apparently and hopefully working on those bigger apartments for example. While not giving into the illusion that people wont find something to complain about those aswell...

I get it. The housing system right now isnt what we want, because SE had a different plan for it. A plan that once might have worked, but that they slowly underminde themself. Its up to them now to fix it - and it seems they are. Does it really need another thread every few days to complain when there are several already?

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Originally Posted by Usho

Or even better...maybe as some have said...give the players what they unlimited housing (like FFXI). Making more wards won't change or solve anything and this process will keep repeating itself in a endless loop til yoshi-fail finally mans up and actually listen to the concerns of his players.

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Would "working on bigger apartments" count? Because... thats what they seem to look into.
And from what I understand from another thread on this matter: Housing in FFXI might have been unlimited when it came to everyone having a house, but was very much limited when it came to decorating that house - I've never played FFXI but if I'm not totally wrong wasnt that MogHome only something like a slightly better innroom at the start? That got only bigger and more elaborate over the years?

Bottomline: Why do you guys fail to realise that they DO listen - but that that doesnt mean that we've got a brand new, shiny, all problems fixed housing system the next day? Specially after the whole 4.1-Shirogane-shit they've showed very much that they understand that theres a housing-problem. Took them long enough, granted. And I understand that you might not want to give them credit before anything is really done, but that needs time. Magic in this game is limited to our characters, I'm afraid...

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

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You guys know you can restrict who can remove items, gil and demolish a house without over controlling your members interaction with housing right? All the tools are there. Example: ALL of my members have the ability to use the workshop to make /anything/ or go into Diadem, but only officers can cancel progress or collect and item. Make sense?

I've been in too many FCs with controlling leaders, I had one FC leader who wouldn't even let us use the Orchestrion. Just like Rinoku, this is why I made my own FC, to have a place where people would actually be able to use housing features. You can be generous to your FC members without being burned. You just have to be smarter with permissions and ranks.

Anyway I digress. This isn't the subject of the thread!

Back on topic.

They're not making a mistake lettings FC's have first dibs. My opinion? The mistake was personal housing having the same system...

Making more wards won't change or solve anything and this process will keep repeating itself in a endless loop til yoshi-fail finally mans up and actually listens to the concerns of his players.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Making more wards won't change or solve anything and this process will keep repeating itself in a endless loop til yoshi-fail finally mans up and actually listens to the concerns of his players.

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This is so true. It hurts my brain that they still don't seem to understand this. The only time when houses will start to free up for players in large masses is when no one will want them anymore. That is a long time from now.

Can't wait to relocate to one of the new wards just because I'm hoping it will be more lively than my current ward... solo homeowners don't make wards feel alive... fcs are better at that

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Can't wait to relocate to one of the new wards just because I'm hoping it will be more lively than my current ward... solo homeowners don't make wards feel alive... fcs are better at that

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You wont get that if the ward you relocate to is all solo owners also relocating. XD

I came to the conclusion adding housing in this game was a mistake well at least how it was implemented standpoint...

Don't worry OP. Even FC's can't buy a House that easy at the moment because of that stupid timer. There will always be someone who is quicker than you.

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Originally Posted by Glenfiddich

Don't worry OP. Even FC's can't buy a House that easy at the moment because of that stupid timer. There will always be someone who is quicker than you.

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Definitely off-topic, but your forum name is making me thirsty

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Originally Posted by NaoTenbe

Unless you're part of the FC when it's first made, or KNOW someone high up in it, and they aren't using the garden constantly, then odds are you won't get access to it, and especially won't get access to any of the project room stuffs.

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If gardening is all you're after, run around and find personal houses with an empty garden. Contact the owner, and ask if you can use their garden.

As far as company workshop, I'd love to see them give personal access to 1 airship and 1 submarine outside housing wards. However, since they don't, here's what goes into building a beginner submarine:

• 18 petrified logs
• 405 coke
• 189 peacock ore
• 108 hardened sap
• 333 darksteel ore
• 126 spruce logs
• 450 cobalt ore
• 180 silver ore

That's the bulk of the cost, the stuff that you can't get for gil from NPCs. It's not shocking that those that spend that much on the crafts don't give away full access.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

I've been in too many FCs with controlling leaders, I had one FC leader who wouldn't even let us use the Orchestrion.

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I was in an FC that had to stop letting people use the orchestrion because there were a few people would change it to play Papaya just to annoy everyone else.

I belong to a very small (4-person) FC with family and friends and like it that way. After being used and screwed over in big ones gathering 1000s of mats for ships and never getting a single item back from the run, I decided no more large FCs with strangers. FCs already have the ship and now the sub advantage. They should not of been given the housing advantage also. In the end, we can come here and complain, offering solutions that fall on deaf ears. This company makes games for a living and knows what must be done to make a good housing system but they choose not to for whatever reason. Simply put, fail housing system is fail and pissing people off. Personally, I would not want my player base pissed and if I was looking for a game and read the forums, I'd pass on this one for sure.

It would help if player (personal) housing wasn't advertised so much as a major feature of the game. Perhaps if they put a disclaimer on it that it's highly unlikely you'll ever get a plot, maybe we'd have slightly fewer angry people. /s

I've been in a few larger fcs before in the past, and I never once felt like I was anything other than a fc points fodder generator to them. Too cliquey... Or I was unlucky and joined some of the bad ones, but I highly doubt the majority of large fcs differ from one another all that much. Small and tight-knit is where it's at (in my opinion).

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Originally Posted by Glenfiddich

Don't worry OP. Even FC's can't buy a House that easy at the moment because of that stupid timer. There will always be someone who is quicker than you.

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I believe that won't be the case when the new wards opens up

Or how about the devs stop trying to make housing wards work and focus on instanced housing that can be used by FCs.

The current housing situation was caused by a short sighted design flaw and perpetuated because SE won't give the devs what they need to improve this game.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

I believe that won't be the case when the new wards opens up

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Didn't the wards open an hour after the server is officially reset? So like at 5 a.m EST?

SE fails on the house system. They should be available on the cashshop (mogstation). If they been like these all gill buyers/gil spanners on main cities will be solved. Also on Elder Scrolls Online you can have more than one house too (more than six). One large, one medium, one mansion and the fc (guild house). Also many people don't have gil to buy a house so their only hope is that the fc have one for them.

This housing nonsense is unbelievably frustrating! I've been trying to get a house for years and now with this so called "solution" fc's will snatch up all the new housing. Nothing will be available for personals whenever it is they decide (if they do) lift that restriction.

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Originally Posted by cafffine

This housing nonsense is unbelievably frustrating! I've been trying to get a house for years and now with this so called "solution" fc's will snatch up all the new housing. Nothing will be available for personals whenever it is they decide (if they do) lift that restriction.

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There will still be apartments.

Which is what personal housing probably should have been to start with.

My main gripe about housing is that non-FCs are unable to get certain flight-related items for crafting, etc. because we cannot build a ship. Even if you are in a FC and heavily contribute to it's success, there is not one owner I ever met that would allow you to get certain items they can make millions off. After this patch, I was looking at the new recipes and saw a really pretty glam top I can make but I need 2x of a mat that only comes from ship sending. I sighed heavily because I have all the other parts and went to the MB. There were mats for sale but they were 10 mil each and I require 2. I just lol'd and put that idea out of my mind. I have worked hard to get 8x 6-book crafters and legendary gatherers but I cannot even get what I want because "the ship never sails" for me. Also, apt owners and non-housing ppl need access to gardens for making necessities such as Thav onions, krakka, etc. It's a crock for sure this whole system.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

There will still be apartments.

Which is what personal housing probably should have been to start with.

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Apartments aren't the be-all end-all solution to personal housing unless they have the ability to place outdoor furnishings and do everything a normal house can. Since balconies got shot down and they can't garden, and it's not confirmed that we'll get expandable apartments yet, an apartment is a more expensive FC room that can't do what houses can.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

Apartments aren't the be-all end-all solution to personal housing unless they have the ability to place outdoor furnishings and do everything a normal house can. Since balconies got shot down and they can't garden, and it's not confirmed that we'll get expandable apartments yet, an apartment is a more expensive FC room that can't do what houses can.

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I can only assume that had they been introduced as the initial personal housing solution, that they would have been iterated upon in the years following.
Making them better than what we have now.

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Originally Posted by Besame

Snip.

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Yes. A lot of the furniture to go in said housing requires mats from FC airships its quite annoying. Do you mind telling the name of the top?

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Originally Posted by LunarLunatic

It is not fair that people that saved money can't get a house because of your team decides that yall want free companies to have first pick. People want there own houses. Free company shouldn't be aloud to get first choice but the players need to be able to get themselves a house before free companies do.

So why can't yall just give the players what they want by letting them get there own houses and let free companies go first?

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You do realize you're contradicting yourself. You say player should go first then at the end you say that free companies should go first.

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Originally Posted by RayneLittlewinkle

Yes. A lot of the furniture to go in said housing requires mats from FC airships its quite annoying. Do you mind telling the name of the top?

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I would like to know the name of said top aswell - while I dont really disgaree about it being annoying that airships are locked to FC only, I cant find any glamour-recipe that requires mats from airships. Infact both top-pieces that have been added for weaver require material that comes from treasure-hunts - both are going for 6-10 mil on our MB, but it has nothing to do with airships...

Several of the early Heavensward glamours required airship drops like Dusk Leather. The top they are probably referring to is the Falconer's Shirt, which needs Falconer's Hemp from airships and rocketed up in price because it was the highest scoring chest item for the Fashion Report this weekend.

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Originally Posted by RayneLittlewinkle

Yes. A lot of the furniture to go in said housing requires mats from FC airships its quite annoying. Do you mind telling the name of the top?

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Ala Mhigan Gown, a Master Weaver book 6 recipe. The weave is down to +6 mil now. I can see it will be like the jute was except I learned to garden the jute. I will wait til it is -1 mil as I need 2 or I won't buy it at all.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

Several of the early Heavensward glamours required airship drops like Dusk Leather. The top they are probably referring to is the Falconer's Shirt, which needs Falconer's Hemp from airships and rocketed up in price because it was the highest scoring chest item for the Fashion Report this weekend.

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The Falconer's shirt which I can also make is identical to the Ramie shirt so if people are buying mats for that instead of the Raime they better wise up :) Perhaps the Falconer is dyeable, the Raime is not. That is most likely the reason because my retainer brought me Falconer's bottoms (which are identical to some black, non-dyeables I have) which show they can be dyed.

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Originally Posted by Besame

The Falconer's shirt which I can also make is identical to the Ramie shirt so if people are buying mats for that instead of the Raime they better wise up :) perhaps the Falconer is dyeable, the Raime is not.

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The Falconer's shirt being dyeable means it can get a higher score than the Ramie shirt as dyes affect your score.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

The Falconer's shirt being dyeable means it can get a higher score than the Ramie shirt as dyes affect your score.

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Yep, that's it. Just made a Falconer's shit and it dyes. Made it Dalamond red, looks awesome. I am a bard that hates the regular bard gear. Too much garish foo-foo. I like looking like an archer/pirate type so this works.