Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Unfortunately, we all know the queue for DPS is going to be horrendous through the DF. Someone on reddit that the backlash from vets and new players complaining about ridiculously long queues will convince the devs to put those two dungeons in the leveling roulette.

I absolutely shudder at the thought.

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Sure why not. :D If they want to loose subs that much they can do it.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

I mean that doesn't sound too unreasonable for an instance run, especially with new players – it's just the 10 minutes of what is essentially downtime for everyone who isn't doing their first run. Prae on the other hand is just asking too much for people who just want to actively run content.

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Considering I can run Doma Castle upwards of three times depending on the group. Why would I touch MSQ Roulette unless I get an equivalent amount of EXP? I sincerely doubt SE increases it to 9M. So... rip new players, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Unfortunately, we all know the queue for DPS is going to be horrendous through the DF. Someone on reddit that the backlash from vets and new players complaining about ridiculously long queues will convince the devs to put those two dungeons in the leveling roulette.

I absolutely shudder at the thought.

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Oh, good lord no. The amount of people leaving will be... something to see. Can't say I wouldn't be tempted to just eat the penalty if I got Prae. It would actually take longer to run it now than to sit out for thirty minutes and try again.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Considering I can run Doma Castle upwards of three times depending on the group. Why would I touch MSQ Roulette unless I get an equivalent amount of EXP? I sincerely doubt SE increases it to 9M. So... rip new players, unfortunately.

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Fair point –*I only have SAM to level now so non of this really effects me but it does seem a very short-sighted move on the part of the developers.
Which is a shame because I never had an issue running MSQ and getting either of them – it was a beneficial situation for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

MSQ daily should have been removed and turned into a dungeon where the player can take his/her grand company npc group with them.

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Flaw: You can't build a squadron until after you've cleared Prae.

I used MSQ to level healers a little bit, since I don't feel confident enough to heal content that actually requires thought. Might just suffer through some squadron runs until it's not worth it.

This is a really bad change. No way I'm sitting through every single cutscene, and there's no way that the rewards will ever be balanced enough to compete with the time it takes to clear. I'll just do other things instead of taking an hour out of my day to get a little extra gil.

What if they made it where doing MSQ roulette and having a "new player" gave you +10 to "I Hope Mentor Will Notice Me I" achievement. If they want this content to be more a player helping experience, then doesn't that fit the bill of a mentor? Rather than offer more poetics which honestly lose their value for a majority of players it would make more sense to have a reward that fits what the MSQ Roulette is forcing on players, to be a mentor to the new players looking to finish X instance.

This should have been a squadron eligible thing.

I tank and heal and I absolutely WON"T be touching the MSQ roulette. Congrats SE.

From Reddit:

On a current run of CM/Prae lets estimate speedrun time to 15 minutes. They are forcing cutscenes, which lets estimate actual time is 45 minutes.

The bonus from poetics from 120 to 200 isn't even 200%. Meaning, that for 3x the length of the dungeon, you get about a 60% boost of XP/poetics. Not worth.

"Hey newbies you are sick of waiting in a queue? Well just give us $$ for a jump potion and you will be done with it!"

Thats how that change feels for me..I just cant understand how someone could see this as a good idea..

Funny how SE wants new players so badly yet make two dungeons that were already a wall for quite some newer players (or at least a negative experience) into something even worse.

I just hope that they wont put any mount or things like that in it when they see that barely anyone runs it anymore...

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Originally Posted by Airget

What if they made it where doing MSQ roulette and having a "new player" gave you +10 to "I Hope Mentor Will Notice Me I" achievement. If they want this content to be more a player helping experience, then doesn't that fit the bill of a mentor? Rather than offer more poetics which honestly lose their value for a majority of players it would make more sense to have a reward that fits what the MSQ Roulette is forcing on players, to be a mentor to the new players looking to finish X instance.

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I don't think 'ability to sit through cut scene' is particularly Mentor worthy.

Making it unskippable for everyone is a dumb, dumb move. Not even all the new players will want to see these cutscenes. Forcing it upon them is not the answer.

What they SHOULD be doing instead is, upon unlocking these dungeons, warn the player that the two dungeons are very story-driven with long cutscenes (much like how the game warns us at the end of 2.55 and such that a long cutscene is about to commence) and encourage use of the Party Finder to find like-minded people that will actually let them watch the cutscenes and not just bum rush the entire dungeon, to give them a more authentic experience (and even teach how to use the Undersized Duty option, if necessary, such that you don't NEED to get a full group of 8).

They really don't emphasize use of the Party Finder enough, and IMO this would be a perfect opportunity to teach players of its existence and what it could be useful for. Instead though, it's being squandered with bad adjustment decisions :(

The thing is, you can't just go alt-tab for a bit, look at video or something cause you have to click the cutscene dialogue, nor you can just be idle and do a little silly dance or check inventory or anything really.
I do help MSQ runs in PF when I see such but watching these cutscenes over and over every time will be bit too much. :(

I would be not be suprised if for the next patch they put msc in to mentor roulette. :D

It's hard to overstate just how bad this change is. They've nuked this roulette into oblivion. Why would anybody run it at this point? If mentor roulette can get it, expect to get all mentors after a 2 hour wait. They SHOULD have changed it to a solo duty, but that'd require more effort than they want to invest.

If SE wants to make people sit through all those cutscenes over and over again, they need to bump the reward proportionally. At least double the XP reward of levelling roulette. Endgame tomestones. Hell, toss a cluster in there.

I often can only play for two hours a day, and the prospect of spending one of those hours watching cutscenes is not appealing whatsoever.

I didn't really run it all that often anyway. Now, I won't run it ever again. Make it a solo instance like we've been crying out for, for ages. New players aren't going to buy the story skip potion to avoid this bad experience, they're just going to unsub most likely and that'll cost SE even more. Forget the housing debacle, I'd say this is the biggest "Oops!" moment of FFXIV 2.0+.

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Originally Posted by Akor

I would be not be suprised if for the next patch they put msc in to mentor roulette. :D

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You monster!

Won't matter if they do, people will just immediately leave like they already do when a EX primal shows up.

Just had another thought, some of these cutscenes have text boxes you need to click to advance right? What's stopping someone from idling during that and holding 7 other people hostage?

I wonder if it would make new players who reach that part think if they should consider whether or not to continue playing. I imagine the queue times will be absolutely horrific and be like a wall in the way of progression.

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Originally Posted by Zephera

Just had another thought, some of these cutscenes have text boxes you need to click to advance right? What's stopping someone from idling during that and holding 7 other people hostage?

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Note these cutscenes don't auto advance so slow readers will take longer.

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Whos to say they didn't change other aspects of this? Do we know for sure what the exact system that will be in place? Did they alter the the having to click to progress, like they have with all the later content they have released?
It seems all we know is they can't be skipped, no other info has been released.
Either way, I agree with quite a few posters in this thread, it wasn't the way to fix this issue.

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Just had another thought, some of these cutscenes have text boxes you need to click to advance right? What's stopping someone from idling during that and holding 7 other people hostage?

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Simple, anyone who spends 30 seconds longer than everyone else to get through the cutscenes (read: anyone who isn't just spam clicking) will get vote kicked. Great solution, huh?

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Simple, anyone who spends 30 seconds longer than everyone else to get through the cutscenes (read: anyone who isn't just spam clicking) will get vote kicked. Great solution, huh?

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I didn't know you could kick people in cutscenes, would make sense to be able to but I've never tried I guess. Still going to get troll groups who queue up together to ruin people's experience though.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

i imagine the loot will still be being rolled for - either intentionally or not.

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MSQ dungeons don't have any loot to roll for at least.

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Originally Posted by Zephera

MSQ dungeons don't have any loot to roll for at least.

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That clicked just as I as deleting my post! You're too quick.

For some reason I was expected them to just change it to a personal story quest with NPCs and not a dungeon at all.

One of the best solutions is change it to a 4 man dungeon with less CS, like Aetherochemical Research Facility or Ala Mhigo. The problem is the massive work you need to do, and they have too much things to do and no time for it, so this probably won't happen. If they see a decreasing in the queues for MSQ roulette, they will change it.

A solo instance is a solution, but the worst of all, since it lost their entire purpose.

They're not going to take cutscenes out of these dungeons so I wouldn't even speculate about that. They recognize the mistake they made with these dungeons, surely, but they can't just go back and essentially take content out of the the dungeons either without shortchanging the players who have yet to get through this content. What's done is done.

All they can do is encourage/enforce people to "play nice" in various ways, with some methods being poorer than others. Unfortunately, what we seem to be getting in 4.2 is one of the poorest ones they could have chosen.

Start the clock!

SE, it was 3 months and 40 pages from the time you said you'd restrict chat in the Feast - a fact that was, and still is near-unanimously received VERY poorly. And when you did respond, it was to ask for "any suggestions or feedback", as if ignorant to the first 39 pages. This has been received just as poorly. . . how many months and how many pages will this one take, and what will be done about it?

P.S. the PvPers are watching too. How long will it take the "favorite" child to get attention?

I've avoided doing this roulette for over two years.

At least allow skipping in unsync groups, I usually prefer to just clear trash and alttab to streams as I help FC newbies. Just until we see most of the repeat player audience dwindle enough to consider reversing this decision.

While I appreciate the intent of the cutscenes in CM and Prae not being skippable for in the event of a new person in the party, the rewards aren't really worth it in the long run.

I think if the gil reward in the daily bonus and Adventurer in Need bonus is highly substantial enough, I'll give it a try more often to help the newbies in need. (I'll take some extra gil for glams and housing stuff.)

I mean ARF and the 24-man raids give quite a bit of poetics in less than 30 minutes, even when there are no new people there.

Glad I got my run done.. after that patch a lot of people are going to be stuck on those two instances.

I'll still run it - if I get a full level of exp each time. lawl.

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Originally Posted by JCharms

Whos to say they didn't change other aspects of this? Do we know for sure what the exact system that will be in place? Did they alter the the having to click to progress, like they have with all the later content they have released?
It seems all we know is they can't be skipped, no other info has been released.
Either way, I agree with quite a few posters in this thread, it wasn't the way to fix this issue.

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Im pretty sure they dint change anything just that. Its SE what we talking about.
They pretty much go with thise: "Hey how can we (force) made ppl to buy that juicy MSQ skip potion?" "I know, lets make it unskippable CS" *everybody clapping*.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

MSQ daily should have been removed and turned into a dungeon where the player can take his/her grand company npc group with them.

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not a bad idea but you might then be locking those dungeons behind quite a barrier.
It can take a fair amount of grind to get to max gc rank unlock squadrens let alone get some decent recruits and unlock command missions.

the increase to 200 poetics just isn't worth it. unless the exp boost is absolutely ridonculous like a guaranteed full level or more

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Originally Posted by Dzian

not a bad idea but you might then be locking those dungeons behind quite a barrier.
It can take a fair amount of grind to get to max gc rank unlock squadrens let alone get some decent recruits and unlock command missions.

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Modify that idea slightly. Instead of taking your squadron with you, the 3 grand companies join together and throw a squadron your way. Melee/ranged DPS will be provided by the Adders, tanks will be provided by the Maelstrom, healers/casters will be provided by the Immortal Flames (playing into the supposed specialities of each GC).

We've had more than our fair share of long duties where you had NPCs fight by your side. Hell, with 4.1, we had a group of 4 NPCs abide by mechanics better than some pugs. They more than have the technology to let us run these dungeons solo, they just won't for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I'll still run it - if I get a full level of exp each time. lawl.

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Two whole levels of exp*

I'm going to keep track of how long it takes right now and how much % exp I get.
Then I'll do the same thing once 4.2 comes out.

If the rewards don't scale appropriately, I don't know if I'll bother. (so if it takes 3x as long, I'm expecting the % of exp I get to be about 3x as much). This has always been my favorite roulette for leveling my secondary healers a little bit every day, and if I saw there was a new person, I would usually put in party chat a message for them to enjoy the CS even if we move on ahead because we could handle it and they'd get to see the fights many times in the future.

I'm also wondering, and made a thread for this, if these rewards/requirements will adjust based on whether we actually have a new player or not. Many times I get groups with NO new player bonus. If we've all done this before, it should automatically adjust back to the old way of letting us skip CS and providing the old rewards.

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Originally Posted by Ceallach

Frankly, I love these new changes. It serves people right for just speeding through the dungeons and ruining the experience for the new players. Just the other day, my free company and I queued up with a total of seven people, and our eighth was a new player. We granted him the full experience instead of just speeding through, and he was having the time of his life.

Maybe people should learn to be more selfless instead of griping about changes that their own actions basically forced.

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Teaching some people a "lesson" at the cost of multitudes of others? This is such a strange, strange post.

This is a bad solution to a failed aspect of the game, which will directly effect the people you claim to "help". Your intent doesn't sound like you want to help new people with this statement at all, it's to harm everybody else- speedrunners or not. The queues will be agonizing for everyone- including the newcomers, people will probably votekick the new people who are bothering to read once the people who intent to boot them finish clicking through the dialogue, ect.

The entire population of the game shouldn't be put behind a wall like that.

I'll do these dungeons still. I already stop and wait for anyone who is watching cutscenes even when the rest of a party runs ahead.

If the rewards are doubled, maybe Ill queue for it, otherwise bye bye