The mentor system needs to be reevaulated.

Personal Opinion: I don't think EX content should be in the mentor roulette. If you've reached that level and don't know how to look up guides yourself, there's not much someone can do for you. Many EX's have some detailed mechanics that can't be simplified over chat.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

The best of FFXIV has to offer =/= incredibly skilled player able to solo O4S while being in the 99th percentile

The best of FFXIV has to offer = a decent individual ( with no link to actual player performance)

I was reacting to morons expecting mentors to be incredibly skilled. Rampant elitism is the issue here, and this toxicity has nothing to do with having a crown or not.

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You should learn to read before you respond next time.

Mentors are there to teach/to help/to aid [new players of course]

Sprouts are not the type to be doing omega savage content.....stop making assumptions.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

You should learn to read before you respond next time.

Mentors are there to teach/to help/to aid [new players of course]

Sprouts are not the type to be doing omega savage content.....stop making assumptions.

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Which is exactly what I m saying, but isn't what other people have been stating here. Please apply your own advices to yourself.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Which is exactly what I m saying, but isn't what other people have been stating here. Please apply your own advices to yourself.

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Again....read...before you respond.

You are answering me..I am answering you...you need to learn to pay attention to what your doing. You are being very accusatory over something I clearly agreed with on you. Chill out..move on.

The idea of watering can instead on crowns isn't that bad at all :D

Maybe not that extreme... but a symbol more towards to "helping people" meaning, than "above people" as a crown suggests, is welcome.

Honestly, increasing the requirements to be a mentor or having tiers would be preferable. Like, there's mentors for each expansion or you lose the status if you aren't qualified that patch because you need to complete certain fights that patch.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

I don't think you understand what a mentor is. A mentor isn't here to be an example or to make great players out of beginner. A mentor is here to provide help to new players, should such a player request it.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

The best of FFXIV has to offer = a decent individual ( with no link to actual player performance)

I was reacting to morons expecting mentors to be incredibly skilled. Rampant elitism is the issue here, and this toxicity has nothing to do with having a crown or not.

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Uh, perhaps you missed the rest of my post in your apparent anger at me? Here I'll requote myself from earlier. I'd love to fix the phone typos now I'm home but I'll leave it untouched for you <3

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Viewing mentors as a meme pretty much hits thhe nail on the head for me. It’s a shame as it shouldn’t be that way. I don’t expect mentors to be 90 percentile superstars, but I do expect them to be at least well grounded, courteous and respectful.

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I entirely agree with you on what a mentor is there for, they are there to help them learn the ropes in the game, not post 90% clear on logs. However, this doesn't mean that the advice that they give out doesn't need to be accurate, thoughtful and well articulated either.

The problem here is that a very significant chunk of bad eggs bring the good eggs into disrepute, this is my issue with the system.

You only have to look at Fairie's issues with Zexy to see that that sort of thing neither looks good on the game or the player base as a whole, nor is it in anyway acceptable at any level in a channel that's there to help people. Bickering, borderline troll advice and personal agendas have absolutely no place in the novice network. The mentors are there to help the sprouts, not the other way round.

Again, I see some of the pettiness and drama that's gone down in there and I want nothing to do with that.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

The idea of watering can instead on crowns isn't that bad at all :D

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Agreed, I think it's fantastic.

Seems like this thread is relevant again http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...R-STOLE-MY-DOG

Heed Yoshida's words, most of you are taking the mentor system way too seriously, it was not designed to be whatever you think it is, it's just answering the simplest, most basic questions and nothing else. Accept the system for what it is and stop trying to change it because they won't change it, and this should be obvious after almost two years with the system.

If someone broke a rule report them for that reason, and not because they had a crown.

I was coming to make a thread about this and saw yours, so thanks!

I honestly think they should do the following:
- Keep what they have now but make that the lower tier mentor, with the same requirements.
- Make the new highest tier.
That would be at least one class of each type at lv. 70, a certain amount of comms, and certain amost of content ran
-pvp and omnicrafters/gathers get a separate version (similarly to how DoH/L requirement is now)

I am a mentor because I really do want to help newbies and share with how much I love this game, but the stigma people have given it is annoying.

I just think it's time to separate the mentor crown and status from the rewards of mentor roulette.

There are very few players who would be mentors if you didn't get anything for doing it but those people would be honest in their intent to help new players. These people are also not generally the type of players who need a carrot on a stick to entice them into providing that help.

I don't consider myself very qualified to be a mentor but since I fulfilled the requirements I thought I might as well unlock the status so that I can help new players in the Novice Network. I'm glad I did! Made a few friends, got some people through some things, I've even gotten to craft new gear for some sprouts since my WVR hit 70.

I don't think mentorship needs to be a complicated thing. You like helping people? You've got some time spent in game? Alrighty. Maybe they could throw out a quick quiz or something of common new player questions if they wanted to be extra sure of the competence of new mentors.

I feel like the people who troll sprouts and ignore them wouldn't be involved in the system at all if it wasn't for the rewards and those of us who like helping people will keep doing it even without an exclusive mount. Let's just get rid of that thing or make it available some other way and be done with it.

Also for the record all of the negativity aimed at mentors by people on this forum who are mentors, whether offically or not, kinda saddens me. Mentors aren't all bad, people are acting like everything toxic they've seen has come from a mentor and they've never seen a mentor player be a victim or harassment or abuse before. I'm sure thatts not true. How about we all take a step back and try to be reasonable instead of the "all mentors are toxic elitists" bandwagon? Many of us are called toxic elitists just for saying healers should dps or parsers are a good thing, we know throwing those words around is silly, why would we do that ourselves?

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Uh, perhaps you missed the rest of my post in your apparent anger at me? Here I'll requote myself from earlier. I'd love to fix the phone typos now I'm home but I'll leave it untouched for you <3



I entirely agree with you on what a mentor is there for, they are there to help them learn the ropes in the game, not post 90% clear on logs. However, this doesn't mean that the advice that they give out doesn't need to be accurate, thoughtful and well articulated either.

The problem here is that a very significant chunk of bad eggs bring the good eggs into disrepute, this is my issue with the system.

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I'm not angry with you, I'm angry about people generalizing by stating mentor are toxics because they are mentor, without seeing that online communities tend to be toxic nonetheless. Honestly I ve yet to run into a toxic mentor, however, I did see a lot of players bullying mentors because they are mentor. And clearly this has to stop.

Also, as already said, mentors aren't there to train players in their advanced (level 50 +) rotation. They are here to help the brand new players who are starting the game and don't have a clue about what may be going on in their first 10th levels (by explaining the basics of the game to them, what type of content there is, give a basic rundown of the battle system, etc). Therefore stating a mentor shouldn't be one because they don't master the cycle of their class is completely missing the point of the system in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Personal Opinion: I don't think EX content should be in the mentor roulette. If you've reached that level and don't know how to look up guides yourself, there's not much someone can do for you. Many EX's have some detailed mechanics that can't be simplified over chat.

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Mentor roulette is almost entirely to help people fill queues. It's not really there with the intention of having a mentor spell out the fights mechanics for the newcomers. Everyone can help with that kinda stuff, the roulette only really helps fill spots in otherwise dead queues to help the flow.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Seems like this thread is relevant again http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...R-STOLE-MY-DOG

Heed Yoshida's words, most of you are taking the mentor system way too seriously, it was not designed to be whatever you think it is, it's just answering the simplest, most basic questions and nothing else. Accept the system for what it is and stop trying to change it because they won't change it, and this should be obvious after almost two years with the system.

If someone broke a rule report them for that reason, and not because they had a crown.

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I had a mentor in Rabanastre stop fighting mid boss to start arguing with a dead player in chat. This went on for a over a minute. By ANY standard, that's ridiculous. They only stopped when I also stopped fighting to tell them to stop slacking and kill the boss (fortunately I can type really, really fast).

That said, any system that puts people front and center with newbies and says "hey ask these folks for help" should be designed to get people who actually want to help newbies. The current system is bad at that because too many people see reward for mentor roulette and just want the easy rewards. When it turns out it won't be easy and they need to actually mentor, some people excel and some people turn into jerks. The latter should be smacked down by the GMs with extreme prejudice without a newbie needing to know they can file a report. A lot of newbies will think that's just how things are because they don't know better yet.

The way it's working right now is unfair both to people who get lousy mentors, and the mentors who want to truly be mentors that get unfairly painted by the actions of the jerks who just want rewards.

I would say 7 out of every 10 mentors I have the displeasure of getting grouped with have been rude, arrogant, and uncooperative. I groan everytime I see a mentor in the party because most of the time, they AT MOST provide nothing of value to the team. Take the crown off if you're not going to be a part of the team. There needs to be a system to report bad mentors so they can have the status revoked. Often times when I get a mentor in my party, it's so predictable what they do. They either go off on their own, start pulling packs (non-tank mentors), complain that everyone is too slow, or do nothing at all. It's like they go out of their way to make the run as awful as possible.

You're not going to set yourself above everyone else with the crown and not conduct yourself in a reasonable manner. If you think you're better than everyone else just by having a crown, then you don't deserve it. Plain and simple.

I basically ignore any mentor who has the standard crown. If they didnt make the effort to change to one of the specialized crowns, they just wanted to have a pretty crown.

I turned mine off the moment I got it, not because I don't like to help, but because I knew it would turn into a mess.

I had a mentor tank in expert roulette the other day wearing a lvl 60 strength ring. Didn't ever talk the whole dungeon, or respond to questions.

I've met the requirements for mentor for awhile now, and only need to level up a tank. I had completely forgotten about it up until recently, because it wasn't a priority or something I was really going for. Well, I started playing with PLD now because tanking seems fun. And it is.

I haven't decided whether or not to actually wear the crown when I get it. On one hand, I love helping people and explaining the mechanics for everything. I also appreciate the time it takes to learn the different roles and love teaching others the basics of various classes. On the other hand, I don't want to be associated with the negativity that the concept of mentors in this game brings. Furthermore, I'm starting to wonder if the crown goes to people's heads and wonder if I start wearing it, will I start to become dysfunctional as a mentor?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I basically ignore any mentor who has the standard crown. If they didnt make the effort to change to one of the specialized crowns, they just wanted to have a pretty crown.

I turned mine off the moment I got it, not because I don't like to help, but because I knew it would turn into a mess.

I had a mentor tank in expert roulette the other day wearing a lvl 60 strength ring. Didn't ever talk the whole dungeon, or respond to questions.

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I don't have a specialized crown because I'm able to mentor all areas.

I'd love to have the option of a watering can though! I think it matches the theme of the sprouts and the flowers really well. And since it doesn't have the "cool" factor it's less likely to be abused.

There is also Mentors of crafting. Don't think having a up vote or down vote in dungeon would work for mentors that's only crafting. There's also Mentor's for just pvp questions and think there's also gathering mentors. think voting would work only on pve mentors. When have crown up it's only for being crafting mentor.

This thread and it's contents are still bothering me.

That said I think the only solutiom is to start wearing my mentor crown as much as I can.

The only reason I'm not wearing it presently is because I don't feel like I can achieve my own expectation of a mentor but with the general public consensus being that mentors are actually a detriment I'm sure I'm better than that.

I hope some of you people that are so bitter about the quality of mentors take a step back and judge people for how they act and how they play instead of making a blanket assumption that all mentors are toxic and incompetemt. It just isn't true. Even if the percentages actually fell in line with some of the more conservative estimates in this thread like 7/10 mentors being awful I feel like I would see more of this than I do.

Do I sometimes get a mentor tank who overpulls? Sure. Honestly most of them are fine though, I'd say I get overcautious mentors who pull super small more often than hyper agressive ones though... and my healers are decently geared so I can't imagine I'm catching any of that new healer pity.

Mentor healers aren't something I have a ton of experience with. One did deliberately let me die tonight during World of Darkness. One also helped save me during LotA when I was tanking the Behemoth on my RDM alt. You get good ones and bad ones.

In terms of mentor DPS I don't run a parser but the majority of my friends do. I can think of one example of a mentor BRD performing really poorly in an expert roulette. Plenty have been just fine. Most at least manage to outdps me as a healer which is more or less all I ask.

tl;dr- I'm sorry, I don't think a compelling case can be made to say that mentors are more bad than good. I think (like most things in life) we remember the bad experiences more than the good ones. Certainly far more than the average ones. A mentor treating sprouts rudely or not performing their job correctly is a shame but unless I have the best luck in Eorzea neither of those things are nearly as common as they're made out to be in this farce of a thread.

Also sort of unrelated but omg please give me the watering can icon. I want it so much now. It much better represents what I want to do with mentoring.

Welp, may as well throw my two cents in.

First, I think getting a mentor thing should require (in addition to its current prerequisites) an actual competency test for whatever mentor specialty you're getting. Nothing too fancy, maybe just a basic thing like a Hall of the Mentor thing. Also make it something you can only officially clear once, and it gives the mentor specialty of your choosing as a reward. To add onto it would be an additional punishment for any mentor reported for harassment or abuse by removal of the mentor specialty on top of whatever standard warning or punishment would be.

The end result would be mentors having to hold themselves to higher standards or else they lose that fancy crown by their name permanently.

Just remove the crown.

Many people went for Mentor status just because they want a fancy crown above their heads.

Remove the crown and you remove the bad mentors with it.
Crown or no crown, a helpful player will always be helpful.

As both a mentor on my main and alt, my only drive for getting mentorship was to be able to stay in NN and help sprouts and anyone else that needed an answer to a question.

I agree that things could be better, but there's too many variables and you'll run into an asshat, crown or not. One of my closest mentor friends, before taking a break from XIV, would butt heads with other asshat mentors. Why? Reasons akin to OP's.

I wear mine proudly knowing I have a symbol that says "I'm here if you need me, don't be afraid to ask for guidance."

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Originally Posted by Afrit_Alchemy

As both a mentor on my main and alt, my only drive for getting mentorship was to be able to stay in NN and help sprouts and anyone else that needed an answer to a question.

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They really should just make the mentor status account wide.

Also, sorry for the necroposts... ^^;

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

This thread and it's contents are still bothering me.

That said I think the only solution is to start wearing my mentor crown as much as I can.

The only reason I'm not wearing it presently is because I don't feel like I can achieve my own expectation of a mentor but with the general public consensus being that mentors are actually a detriment I'm sure I'm better than that.
...

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I think this is just identifying the problem. The problem is that the crown is active when not engaging in a mentor role. Players who have qualified for Mentor, for ANY reason, should have the crown only turned on when they are "in mentor" mode, so players can engage with players with the crown turned on because it says "I'm available to help"

What seems to happen, or so I hear, is that a small amount of people just want the crown because it's a form of completion. Yay, you got the crown, now are you going to help people or just use it to get an extra roulette queue. Because if it's the latter, entering any DF with the crown on should minimally force the mentor to be a mentor or turn it on/off from the DF to begin with. That can be accomplished by locking out the vote-kick and vote-abandon options from players with mentor status on, because if you enter as a mentor, you should be able to finish it, even if the party is terrible. People tend to complain that they get hard content with the Mentor's queue, when that is in fact the point, and that's the most abandoned content.

On the flip side of that, players who have not completed the content, should not be able to enter with the Mentor crown on. It would help a lot more if the game actually kept internal statistics, basically giving players a S/A/B/C rating in a certain job with certain content, and not permitting the Mentor to be a Mentor in content if they can't achieve at least an A rating in it with a full PUG. If they can only get a B rating, they will only be placed in PUG's with other B-or-better's without the mentor crown. If a player can't get a C or hasn't completed the content, then they will be shown as a newbie.

But what happens instead is people just get the crown and wear it all the time, mentoring or not, bad mood or not.

I feel like they should at least increase the max number of mentors in Novice Network because on an average server only a small fraction of the people will bother to talk at all, while the rest seem to just treat it like some kind of status symbol.

It particularly annoys me to regularly see bot farmers pulling overnighters in there.

I have to say this has been on my mind since I resubbed the other week and acquired mentor status, due to crafting - I don't even feel qualified in that capacity, but it is what it is. What is of concern, as was pointed out way back in this thread, is the fact I could pop the icon for all other aspects of game play mentoring currently enabled. I've never set foot in PvP, for example, yet I can be seen as a mentor for it by the uninitiated if I wish to. This makes no sense. Similarly, I don't think it's smart to have the plain crown (omnimentor?) available in this case, nor the one which suggests I know stuff about fighting things. I mean, I do have a snippet of knowledge, yes, but not where I'd really feel comfortable saying "AMA! I am font of all FFXIV knowledge", or whatever. I'm also an awful teacher, terrible at explaining things. What logic says just because I crafted some stuff and turned in some collectables I can mentor anyone in any capacity in the game? I mean, the methods I employed to do the crafting and gathering would most likely have proper crafters and gathers crying into their pillows at night, but at least I'm not affecting their game in any way if I don't do a "perfect" collectable.

I do not wear the crown, I don't want it for anything but the crafting bit - and even then, I'm not sure those requirements shouldn't be higher because if I wander into getting it by accident*, I have to think those requirements just aren't stringent enough. It's still a thing I can look at and say I suppose I earned it, I can be a little proud. At least I can't do the mentor roulette, that would just be completely naughty if I could do that in addition. I know I can resign the whole thing, and I think I'll resign it when I log in later today. If I'm truly worthy I'm sure I can get it again. If not, eh. It's not a loss to anyone.

I would say you get it if you earn it in the sector in which you earn it alone, and you should only wear it if you're prepared to represent what it represents (and indeed, it tells you this when you're poking the icons. No one can say they don't know how to behave when they select it for display). How it is right now is very silly and ought to be addressed.


* And herein lies the clueless bit: I resubbed, and was intending to get into an inn room to do some glamour/dye stuff. I misclicked (am Queen of Misclick), and inadvertantly started talking to the Hall of Novice chap. Can't escape the conversation, so just click through, sort of not reading and thinking it's the usual blurb with a long list of How To Get Mentor stuff. Not really paying full attention I click yes, just to shut the convo up, and immediately realise what I've done. If there's any further proof required that I should not mentor, there it is. It killed my returner status dead. I was wanting to use that crutch! I needed that! I misclick things regularly enough there should be a warning sign on my character's front and back! Oof.

I think sqome people do misunderstand the purpose of the mentor role. Mentors aren't here to teach players to be great players (it isn't the role of the mentors to know every rotation for every job and to tell players in NN what they should be doing in savage content) but to guide beginners if for some reason they do not know what to do at some point. They are also here to help with duties they partake in by giving directions to new players.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

The only reason I'm not wearing it presently is because I don't feel like I can achieve my own expectation of a mentor

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This statement, old as it may be, is at the core of the problem here. What expectations do you have that you cannot live up to? If you cannot live up to them, maybe it's time to reevaluate them. How fair are they to other people? How in-line they are with Square's own requirements and stated definition of a Mentor?
I can say I expect every Mentor to be Jesus level of human. No one's going to live up to that. But that's also nothing SE asks out of Mentors in the first place.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Players who have qualified for Mentor, for ANY reason, should have the crown only turned on when they are "in mentor" mode, so players can engage with players with the crown turned on because it says "I'm available to help"

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It basically tells you that when you want to change your online status to it. There's nothing keeping people from lying.

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That can be accomplished by locking out the vote-kick and vote-abandon options from players with mentor status on, because if you enter as a mentor, you should be able to finish it, even if the party is terrible. People tend to complain that they get hard content with the Mentor's queue, when that is in fact the point, and that's the most abandoned content.

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1. Disabling the kick options is only going to protect bad behavior. And it's not like votes are something the Mentor themselves is capable of passing on their own, they need at least so many other people to vote with them
2. Mentors are absolutely not here to carry dead weight. "You should be able to finish it, even if the party is terrible"? Are you serious? How is my BLM self supposed to carry a party through the Aurum Vale when the tank and healer are both undergeared and hardly familiar with their kits because they're sprouts? Remember those aforementioned inflated expectations? This, right here. This is it.

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they will be shown as a newbie.

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And thus escape the scrutiny of actually being a Mentor in there. Everything you suggested only means less people would be Mentors. Which is nice in theory but the roulette was there to get queues moving. SE isn't going to do anything that will hurt it that much.

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But what happens instead is people just get the crown and wear it all the time, mentoring or not, bad mood or not.

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You have no way of monitoring what people do when they have the crown up without going all Big Brother on each and every single Mentor. And that's something SE shouldn't do, even if it had the manpower to do so - which it doesn't.

I'll be blunt, this entire post was more than a bit delusional.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

They are also here to help with duties they partake in by giving directions to new players.

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Which includes, but should not be limited to:
1. "Put up a Party Finder". Extreme primals synced, at least ARR ones, is not something so easy to run synced. At least not if you have more than a couple of first timers. That's not content that should be pugged so much.
2. "Watch a guide". Maybe the mentor can't really explain the fight which is not a requirement set forth by SE. Maybe the newcomer learns better through visual aids and not by reading walls of text. Knowing that you should probably prep before an Extreme fight is a good thing, especially since up to then most content could be streamrolled.

I'm sorry to know what happened to your friend. As a mentor this story boild my blood.

I want to help in my server but currently Japanese speakers dominated and I can't speak Japanese...

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I think this is just identifying the problem. The problem is that the crown is active when not engaging in a mentor role. Players who have qualified for Mentor, for ANY reason, should have the crown only turned on when they are "in mentor" mode, so players can engage with players with the crown turned on because it says "I'm available to help"

What seems to happen, or so I hear, is that a small amount of people just want the crown because it's a form of completion. Yay, you got the crown, now are you going to help people or just use it to get an extra roulette queue. Because if it's the latter, entering any DF with the crown on should minimally force the mentor to be a mentor or turn it on/off from the DF to begin with. That can be accomplished by locking out the vote-kick and vote-abandon options from players with mentor status on, because if you enter as a mentor, you should be able to finish it, even if the party is terrible. People tend to complain that they get hard content with the Mentor's queue, when that is in fact the point, and that's the most abandoned content.

On the flip side of that, players who have not completed the content, should not be able to enter with the Mentor crown on. It would help a lot more if the game actually kept internal statistics, basically giving players a S/A/B/C rating in a certain job with certain content, and not permitting the Mentor to be a Mentor in content if they can't achieve at least an A rating in it with a full PUG. If they can only get a B rating, they will only be placed in PUG's with other B-or-better's without the mentor crown. If a player can't get a C or hasn't completed the content, then they will be shown as a newbie.

But what happens instead is people just get the crown and wear it all the time, mentoring or not, bad mood or not.

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Personally speaking, I usually keep mine active 90% of the time I'm online because I pretty much always ready to help others. :) I do apologize if I sound like a goody two-shoes. ^^;

What a sad story. I'm sorry your friend went through this. My person experience with Mentors in the Novice channel are pretty much in line with this. Feels like the people who chose mentor are just there to farm a crown or talk down to people. When I returned to the game after an extended break, some 'Mentor" threatened to remove me when I asked if anyone knew of any good Free Companies for casual/new people. Told me basically any kind of FC recruitment talk was NOT ALLOWED.

I feel like Mentor's should lose the status if they don't queue up with any actual novices in a space of time. That might clear the channel for people who actually DO want to help.

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Originally Posted by Sandoria

Told me basically any kind of FC recruitment talk was NOT ALLOWED.

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I can’t speak for your server, but this is a rule on lamia’s NN, because then the chat would get clustered with FC pitches/messages. Before, it made it nearly impossible to get questions answered, because people kept putting recruitment messages completely drowning out player questions.

I have dug up this thread, rather than create my own.

A bad experience on my alt, has opened my eyes to just how abysmal the state of this system is. If you want a point of reference, and context I have already posted about the exchange in the "Tales of Duty Finder" thread. Summarized I was berated by a mentor on my alt, I asked how I could properly report someone who abuses the title of "mentor", I was baited in the 'Novice Network', then I was threatened in tell. I was kicked out of the 'Novice Network' by a random mentor for explaining my frustration with the system as a whole, all the while they (mentors in general) hypocritically talk about anything AND everything in the supposed 'Novice Network'. There own personal chatroom. The 'Novice Network' is being subverted by these kinds of people. The sheer malice is appalling, and eye opening. I will be renouncing my mentorship status, and I will be staying as far away as possible from the 'Novice Network'. I was never a perfect mentor, I didn't help enough, and usually only when asked, so by my own standards I am undeserving of the title anyway.

The system rightfully needs a complete overhaul from the ground up - if not dissolved in it's entirety. That isn't to say there are not good mentors out there, there are. I am not denying that fact. I am stating that the many bad ones, overshadow those that are good, make a mockery of the system, and use it not as a means to "mentor", or assist new/returning players, but is used, rather, as a popularity contest. A pretty golden crown next to their name; bragging rights (if you can even claim that). The requirements are too low, the expectations are too low, the fact that it gives you any crown you want when you meet the (laughable) threshold to become a mentor. A crown, give me a break. I am not a game designer I will not claim that I have a complete plan laid out on how to overhaul, and ultimately improve the system, but the fact remains - it needs to be done.

There is a new expansion coming out, new/returning players will be coming in droves. They will be greeted, and encouraged to join this 'Novice Network' that isn't worthy of them. Get it done. I always knew it needed an overhaul, but I have never felt so appalled as now, after witnessing firsthand the malice a "mentor" is capable of. Threats, harrassment, abuse of power.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

snip.

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Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I didn't expect my thread to see the light of day again but I still stand by the fact that the mentor system needs to be redesigned.


Whether that's adding more steep requirements or removing the bonuses mentor status gives you. I've been a mentor since mid HW and I'll always help those that need it.


Sadly a lot of mentors out there dont abide by this and give those of us that actually like and wanting to help other players a bad name.


It would be great if we could change this ourselves as a community, but it doesnt look like that's going to happen anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I have dug up this thread, rather than create my own.

A bad experience on my alt, has opened my eyes to just how abysmal the state of this system is. If you want a point of reference, and context I have already posted about the exchange in the "Tales of Duty Finder" thread. Summarized I was berated by a mentor on my alt, I asked how I could properly report someone who abuses the title of "mentor", I was baited in the 'Novice Network', then I was threatened in tell. I was kicked out of the 'Novice Network' by a random mentor for explaining my frustration with the system as a whole, all the while they (mentors in general) hypocritically talk about anything AND everything in the supposed 'Novice Network'. There own personal chatroom. The 'Novice Network' is being subverted by these kinds of people. The sheer malice is appalling, and eye opening. I will be renouncing my mentorship status, and I will be staying as far away as possible from the 'Novice Network'. I was never a perfect mentor, I didn't help enough, and usually only when asked, so by my own standards I am undeserving of the title anyway.

The system rightfully needs a complete overhaul from the ground up - if not dissolved in it's entirety. That isn't to say there are not good mentors out there, there are. I am not denying that fact. I am stating that the many bad ones, overshadow those that are good, make a mockery of the system, and use it not as a means to "mentor", or assist new/returning players, but is used, rather, as a popularity contest. A pretty golden crown next to their name; bragging rights (if you can even claim that). The requirements are too low, the expectations are too low, the fact that it gives you any crown you want when you meet the (laughable) threshold to become a mentor. A crown, give me a break. I am not a game designer I will not claim that I have a complete plan laid out on how to overhaul, and ultimately improve the system, but the fact remains - it needs to be done.

There is a new expansion coming out, new/returning players will be coming in droves. They will be greeted, and encouraged to join this 'Novice Network' that isn't worthy of them. Get it done. I always knew it needed an overhaul, but I have never felt so appalled as now, after witnessing firsthand the malice a "mentor" is capable of. Threats, harrassment, abuse of power.

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While I’m sorry you had such a bad experience on your server, not all NN are that bad. I know on my server I saw lots of people get help that they needed and then some. Yeah drama has happened in there here and there, but the vast majority of the time it was focus on helping people. It’s a shame your NN is full of people who just don’t care.

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

While I’m sorry you had such a bad experience on your server, not all NN are that bad. I know on my server I saw lots of people get help that they needed and then some. Yeah drama has happened in there here and there, but the vast majority of the time it was focus on helping people. It’s a shame your NN is full of people who just don’t care.

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Also this. I know from experience that at least on my server newer and returning players are helped out quite often. It just sucks when your personal experiences are sullied by those who clearly don't care.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Selova

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I didn't expect my thread to see the light of day again but I still stand by the fact that the mentor system needs to be redesigned.


Whether that's adding more steep requirements or removing the bonuses mentor status gives you. I've been a mentor since mid HW and I'll always help those that need it.


Sadly a lot of mentors out there dont abide by this and give tgosecif us that actually like and wanting to help other players a bad name.


It would be great if we could change this ourselves as a community, but it doesnt look like that's going to happen anytime soon.

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I have given it some thought, and I am of the opinion now that the entire mentor program should be dissolved in it's entirety. Helpful people will help, whether they have the title of mentor or not. Remove the crown, and "prestige" associated with it. It would weed out the people who want it for that, and the people who want to help of their own volition will help. Keep a 'newbie' chat where they can help. The fact that a mentor could just kick me is appalling, and eye-opening. This same mentor according to conflicting reports (referenced in another thread) is known for this, yet he still apparently had the power to kick, and is still a mentor. This is unacceptable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I have given it some thought, and I am of the opinion now that the entire mentor program should be dissolved in it's entirety. Helpful people will help, whether they have the title of mentor or not. Remove the crown, and "prestige" associated with it. It would weed out the people who want it for that, and the people who want to help of their own volition will help. Keep a 'newbie' chat where they can help. The fact that a mentor could just kick me is appalling.

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I honestly don't have a issue with it's removal entirely either. It's more or less just a outdated relic of a system that just exists for the sake of existing at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Selova

I honestly don't have a issue with it's removal entirely either. It's more or less just a outdated relic of a system that just exists for the sake of existing at this point.

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I am sorry to the people who genuinely use the Mentor program, and the 'Novice Network' as it was intended, but it has been co-opted by people who have no intention whatsoever of actually being a mentor, actually helping others, or anything as it was advertised. All they want is the shiny glam crown, and easy mentor roulletes for their pretty little mount that they DO NOT deserve. I do not think there is any way to actually rebuild the system, and prevent abuse, so the system should just be removed. It is flawed at it's core.