Glamours made easy - announcement

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Does anyone know if the dye you picked for a piece of gear will stay when it gets converted into glam? Just thought of this today.

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I think they said in those Japan new years Q&As that items but in the Dresser would keep the colour you dye them

It would be nice if I could destroy the item and make it so it's recorded for future uses. I've got a lot of pieces of gear in my retainers that I use for glamouring. It will help me out to clean some space.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Why would you want to keep anything you glamour? You don't need it for content anymore.

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To glamour retainers and the squadron, and also to glamour the jobs which aren't using the 10 outfits we're given. If we can't use the new system for all jobs then we still need those glamour items to be usable in the old glamour system.

Should have created a second panel in the equipment menu next to our current equipment tabs, like it was in 1.0 for the then "Underwear*", and have it so whatever we place in the new second tab such as a body piece, placed in the secondary body tab, any kind and any type, you could toggle it on or off, for priority display etc. For example, your a Warrior with a boring old Warrior body piece on, you place a White Mage body in this new secondary body tab and click it on, it then will be displayed instead of your boring old Warrior body.

That is an example, I know some people would have an issue seeing a Warrior in White Mage garb with a huge Axe, its just an example, relax.

What about storage of the gear to be used as the glamour? Put it all in the storage box and give us a pop up menu that, pops up when you click on the secondary equipment tab and lets us select what we have in storage to be set as the current piece of gear in the tab, this way we don't carry or hold gear in the inventory or on retainers.

Title is highly misleading. Our glamour system is already convoluted, this just adds another layer of WUT?? to the equation. We're even having to ask how something as simple as dyes will work.

When it could've just been a book you click gear in.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

It was never stated that we were getting a glam log,nor does this new system try to pass as one. Also not sure how you can say they are not listening. That sounds like a rant from a kid who didn't get what he wanted for his birthday.

From the devs side of the table, I would imagine that they are well aware of the player base's desire for a glamour log, but they have technical constrictions that no one wants to hear about. They also know that the biggest problem with the current glamour system is players cannot give individual looks for all the jobs they play on a particular role without sacrificing stats from wearing inferior gear. So they could not give us a glamour log, yet. But at least for now the aforementioned issue will no longer be a problem 4.2 on onward. There are only 10 tabs as of right now, but between the current glamour system and the upcoming one, you should be able to give all combat classes a different look.

It's not what we ultimately want, but it's a damn good start. Stop seeing the glass half-empty.

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I do not see them posting on here so...
I see it as not listening

It is not a good start, it is like going from 1.0 to 2.0 all over again. They make a limited system that they can't expand on, something that is likely taking up more server resources then a simple checklist that keeps track of the gear you obtained. This system seems like it is acting more as more inventory space more then a log, making it more data intensive. Then they wonder why people are frustrated of hearing "server limitations" excuse. It is because they never do things efficiently. When I come here and see so little interactions, I have to conclude they do not understand what a glam log is and not really listening to us.

I am not seeing the glass half empty, I am seeing things based on SE's track record. It gets old not being listened to:

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Originally Posted by NolLacnala

Title is highly misleading. Our glamour system is already convoluted, this just adds another layer of WUT?? to the equation. We're even having to ask how something as simple as dyes will work.

When it could've just been a book you click gear in.

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It does not explain anything and it is confusing, again it just shows they do not know what we want and how to interact with us. If they did understand us, they would at least explain things more.

I guess it is not so simple when they can't even explain it?

What happens when you go over 200 items? what happens with dyes? What exactly are they doing with the current system and how that interacts with this new one? Why do they make something simple into a tedious and complex process? Why is there so many questions not answered? Why are theses not answered in a post called "glamor made easy"?

Fashion plates. I love it! /chuckle

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I guess it is not so simple when they can't even explain it?

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To be fair, it's not that they can't, they haven't. You want a full disclosure of how the system works? Wait for the patch notes. That's how they've almost always done things.

I wonder if the dresser is gonna be CRP specialist? Or will you just get it from npc shop

Yeah, my first thought was wondering how difficult making personal glamour dressers would be. The complaint about going to an inn over and over could be a non-issue if these things are easy to get for personal rooms/housing.

It does seem a bit off-putting that the item is permanently added to the Dresser if you place it in there, but 200 seems like a reasonable amount of items to me. Especially if we can still use the current prism system in combination of it.

But, I also don't hoard things I only use once every few months.

I just hope the eventual housing item doesn't require the "obscenely-expensive materials du-jour." At the very least, I hope they offer different tiered recipe options, like they do with the aquariums.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

To glamour retainers and the squadron, and also to glamour the jobs which aren't using the 10 outfits we're given. If we can't use the new system for all jobs then we still need those glamour items to be usable in the old glamour system.

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I'm hoping we can use the old system with equipments that were turned into skins.

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Originally Posted by DarkDedede

I just hope the eventual housing item doesn't require the "obscenely-expensive materials du-jour." At the very least, I hope they offer different tiered recipe options, like they do with the aquariums.

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It might be expensive at first, like the unending journey and the armoire, but you can just ask someone to gather the materials for you, or gather them yourself.

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Originally Posted by NolLacnala

Title is highly misleading. Our glamour system is already convoluted, this just adds another layer of WUT?? to the equation. We're even having to ask how something as simple as dyes will work.

When it could've just been a book you click gear in.

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This is all I want! I was excited originally about a glamour toilet as I do keep a lot of dungeon gear, but I'm confused as to whether it will free up inventory space at all.

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Originally Posted by Aivi_lo

...but I'm confused as to whether it will free up inventory space at all.

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It frees up 25 more slots than a retainer. Which tells me they're treating it like a wooden retainer. Which also tells me they're prioritizing retainers over game functionality and good game design decisions. It's a temporary band aid fix.

As much as I like to gnash teeth over emulating Blizzard (cash shop) I gladly give credit where credit is due (glamour book)

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I do not see them posting on here so...
I see it as not listening
It is not a good start, it is like going from 1.0 to 2.0 all over again. They make a limited system that they can't expand on, something that is likely taking up more server resources then a simple checklist that keeps track of the gear you obtained. This system seems like it is acting more as more inventory space more then a log, making it more data intensive. Then they wonder why people are frustrated of hearing "server limitations" excuse. It is because they never do things efficiently. When I come here and see so little interactions, I have to conclude they do not understand what a glam log is and not really listening to us.

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1.0 to 2.0 was a bloody miracle. Did you play 1.0? do you remember what that was like? Holy night and day difference. Unless you mean that this is a revolution in the system that will make it usable again.. you should avoid that comparison.
As far as you or I know it IS a log. Why do you think it makes things inaccessible? It changes the gear you put into it into a different storage method. This is very likely changing the amount of data it stores and has to transfer , as opposed to actual inventory which they've stated is a crazy bandwidth hog.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I am not seeing the glass half empty, I am seeing things based on SE's track record. It gets old not being listened to:

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like how they've immediately put a housing solution in the pipes after the outrage in kugane? I don't think they were planning that from the beginning. It seems like they heard us and have done their damndest to come up with SOMETHING to make people happy (or not cancel their subs if you're gonna be practical about it) . Also the fact that they even HAVE a glamour revision happening means they're listening. If they were ignoring us they'd have just offered existing systems as mitigation for inventory bloat and blown everyone off. Admitted they don't have a great record and have done a lot of undesirable things, however they do seem to be listening in this case.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

It does not explain anything and it is confusing, again it just shows they do not know what we want and how to interact with us. If they did understand us, they would at least explain things more.

I guess it is not so simple when they can't even explain it?

What happens when you go over 200 items? what happens with dyes? What exactly are they doing with the current system and how that interacts with this new one? Why do they make something simple into a tedious and complex process? Why is there so many questions not answered? Why are theses not answered in a post called "glamor made easy"?

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the limit is 200 items. Past that you will have to use the old system. I'm not sure how they could have made that clearer. This is likely meant as a limit for the current implementation and will be expanded as they get actual usage data from this iteration.
The current system is being left in place so that you don't HAVE to use the new system if you don't want to and can shore up any glamours that dont fit into the 10. This admittedly was NOT stated directly but they also never said they were removing the old system or even modifying it so I'm not sure why you're confused about that.
Simple like: pick a slot. Find the item you want to glamour it with. Find out what prism it needs. Dye the glamour item the color you want. Use the prism to glamour the useful item to the correct appearance. Save this gear set in your gear sets. Repeat this whole process for EVERY SINGLE ITEM YOU UPGRADE.
I think picking a whole outfit you like and dying all the items you want the right color ONCE and making it an outfit, then just applying the whole thing every time your useful items change is much better and simpler.
What other questions do you have?

Because it was a preview, not patch notes. I expect it will be outlined in the preliminary patch notes pretty well.

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Originally Posted by DarkDedede

I just hope the eventual housing item doesn't require the "obscenely-expensive materials du-jour." At the very least, I hope they offer different tiered recipe options, like they do with the aquariums.

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If it's locked behind more treasure map RNG I think people will lose it. The crafted glamour items this expansion are bad enough, this would just be the cherry on a pile of poop.

If anything, I'm thinking the glamour commode for housing will use materials from submarine voyages.

I don't think any of the past inn furnishings used treasure map exclusive materials.

They should have left it as a Glamour Commode... >.>

And made it look like the cosmo fountain from PSU

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

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*Applause* Well said! A voice of reason indeed!

Yes people, this is just a first step. More than likely the dev team has a plan in mind but they need to roll it out in stages in order to gather feedback and data. As mentioned in the Live Letter, it will first be available only in Inns, and slowly expanded. They hope to include it into housing items next, but there're no promises.

So please, keep your ire down for now. It'll roll out as it is, we'll use it THEN complain, and let them fix it from there. Getting pissy over a feature that hasn't even been released is just shortening your lifespan needlessly.

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Originally Posted by DarkDedede

At the very least, I hope they offer different tiered recipe options,

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I don't even care that much about what materials it uses, but I'd definitely like to see a more compact version that just looks like a small, tabletop jewelry box or something? The full model is a bit bulky and gaudy for my tastes, though if you can close the drawers and have it look like an ordinary vanity that would be great...

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Originally Posted by Lukha

I don't even care that much about what materials it uses, but I'd definitely like to see a more compact version that just looks like a small, tabletop jewelry box or something? The full model is a bit bulky and gaudy for my tastes, though if you can close the drawers and have it look like an ordinary vanity that would be great...

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It looks to me like it could sit closed until you interact with it, then it opens up at the same time the interface comes up? At least that's how I'd do it if I was making something that looked like that.

The jewellery box is a nice idea too. They have a similar idea with full-size and miniature orchestrions, so it's possible.

I am out of the loop so can someone tell me why they don't use a system like WoW's transmog log? Has it got something to do with consoles? WoW is much older technology so I don't understand.

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Originally Posted by Minako_Nightsong

I am out of the loop so can someone tell me why they don't use a system like WoW's transmog log? Has it got something to do with consoles? WoW is much older technology so I don't understand.

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we've never gotten a definitive answer as to why any particular solution has been used or not used in any situation. FFXIV's Devs don't usually discuss internal decisions on system implementation with the userbase.

If you're asking for speculation or general consensus there are two answers:

a.That system wouldn't work with the higgldy-piggldy that is FFXIVs engine and server network/framework.

b. They are stupid and/or hate us and/or they don't understand that's something we want. (.. this seems unlikely)

I will say, the new system seems to be anything but easy. We'll see how it turns out, though.

Personally, I still think the Glamour system appears to very poorly thought-out. I understand the theoretical value of Glamour Plates, and I think they could actually go a long way toward resolving some of the problems with the existing system, but why is this being launched as a new thing with a new name? If SE wanted to go this route - rather than a proper Glamour Log - they already have a superior mechanism for doing so: gear sets. We can switch between them almost anywhere we want, and there are a lot more than 10 slots available. Just introduce an NPC that allows Glamours to be layered over gear sets, and pair the NPC with a Log of sorts that, as it's only accessible when interacting with certain NPCs, will minimize the burden on servers.

Only time will tell, but SE's obsession with creating entirely new systems for every small change - as opposed to augmenting existing, established systems with new functionality - is a tremendous liability. It might make for flashier headlines when previewing version updates, but it also contributes to a game world that feels cobbled together from dozens of independently-designed pieces, rather than crafted and built up with some sort of consistent vision.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

If you're asking for speculation or general consensus there are two answers:

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Or could be just as likely they're trying to do something unique and not just copy/paste another game's mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Or could be just as likely they're trying to do something unique and not just copy/paste another game's mechanic.

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Yoshi-P was an avid WoW player and directly lifted a lot from WoW, which in turn lifted some things from XIV. It happens in the MMO market literally all the damn time.

Being different just for the sake of being different is part of what made 1.0 such a raging disaster, like using retainer wards instead of an actual auction house.

I feel Yoshi-P wouldn't fall into that trap so I'm guessing this has something to do with the database yet again...

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Or could be just as likely they're trying to do something unique and not just copy/paste another game's mechanic.

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A bicycle with square tires is unique but it isn't inherently good for being unique. In true SE fashion, this seems so unnecessarily complicated lol

It's possible. Although I'm not sure if this was truly the simplest/easiest design they could come up with for keeping the stress load down.
But, I'm no WoW player, so can't really comment on what is and isn't the same, nor do I have any knowledge of how the infrastructure is structured. So my input doesn't amount to much.

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Originally Posted by Mature

I wonder if the dresser is gonna be CRP specialist? Or will you just get it from npc shop

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Inn room only

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

To be fair, it's not that they can't, they haven't. You want a full disclosure of how the system works? Wait for the patch notes. That's how they've almost always done things.

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Exactly this. Square is usually very tight lipped about new things until the patchnotes or a live letter immediately before a patch. Welcome to the world of every raider who has worried about gearing or job changes ever.

That being said, the system isn't a Glamour Log to WoW's Transmog Log, but supposedly that's just not doable? I'll take their word for it until I at least get my hands on it, but it does seem like a big step forward in the very least. At least wait until release of it to complain, there's nothing claiming that they won't work on this system in the future, as they have with Glamour already.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

we've never gotten a definitive answer as to why any particular solution has been used or not used in any situation. FFXIV's Devs don't usually discuss internal decisions on system implementation with the userbase.

If you're asking for speculation or general consensus there are two answers:

a.That system wouldn't work with the higgldy-piggldy that is FFXIVs engine and server network/framework.

b. They are stupid and/or hate us and/or they don't understand that's something we want. (.. this seems unlikely)

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Yoshi P listed WoW: Legion as his game of the year. There is an almost ZERO percent chance they don't understand that people want something similar, or nearly identical to WoW's. We can armchair dev all we want, very, very few players would even be able to understand how the system works if a dev sat down and explained it to them, and fewer still could even begin to suggest actual methods of improving/changing the new system we're getting on any sort of technical level.

It's unfortunate, but I'll take any improvements to glamour at all. Heck, I could live with the current system if most/all of the restrictions were just lifted. WoW, ironically, still has this problem in some cases, almost a decade later. Whatever powers that be decide that players should only be allowed to wear XYZ item on ABC class or at DEF time, even though item MNO looks nearly identical and has no such restrictions.

So this seems to be a version of LOTRO Wardrobe & Costume setup. I approve of anything that is not as limited as the current system as I would like to change my look sometimes for only a few minutes when I am in certain locations and this will do the trick.

I'm hoping that once you create a "plate" there is not going to be some silly and high fee for applying the plate to your gear.

Also not all that happy that you can only apply the plates in an Inn room. I fully accept that to create them it can be restricted there but the application really should be able to be done anywhere - maybe that will be a future update though.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

Yoshi P listed WoW: Legion as his game of the year. There is an almost ZERO percent chance they don't understand that people want something similar, or nearly identical to WoW's. We can armchair dev all we want, very, very few players would even be able to understand how the system works if a dev sat down and explained it to them, and fewer still could even begin to suggest actual methods of improving/changing the new system we're getting on any sort of technical level.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

(.. this seems unlikely)

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I indeed think it's laughable that people think the Devs are that disconnected or clueless. .. but it's what people have posted, so .. common consensus.

People will always ask for results without knowing the challenges as long as they aren't in the industry. Unfortunately most of the people demanding results here are also very young and have a hard time with empathizing a position they've never been in.

There are currently 15 combat classes and 11 doh/dol classes, so if I want different plates from shared gear, 10 would not be enough, as there would be 26 classes. Hopefully, it can be clear if there really are just 10 plates and what that magic number 200 really is for.

Well,They might add the option to purchase extra plates from mog station.
Knowing SE I think the possibility is pretty high.

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Originally Posted by Rasler_Heios

There are currently 15 combat classes and 11 doh/dol classes, so if I want different plates from shared gear, 10 would not be enough, as there would be 26 classes. Hopefully, it can be clear if there really are just 10 plates and what that magic number 200 really is for.

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Honestly. No joke. How many full outfits do you need glamoured at once at any given time?

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Honestly. No joke. How many full outfits do you need glamoured at once at any given time?

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At best, one per role plus favorite job, one per dol/h (unless you use job specific items from yellow scrip) and the rest is usual experimentation/rp gear.

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Honestly. No joke. How many full outfits do you need glamoured at once at any given time?

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One per job would be ideal, so 15 at this point. I don't really understand why they decided to only give us 10.

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Originally Posted by Minako_Nightsong

I am out of the loop so can someone tell me why they don't use a system like WoW's transmog log? Has it got something to do with consoles? WoW is much older technology so I don't understand.

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I dont understand that either. Its not only WoW..Rift has a great glamor system too which is miles above that dresser..there are MMOs out there which they could use as an inspiration but I somehow feel like this is just another bandaid..I get the feeling that they noticed the anger of their community about glamour and space and just thought up a system that would give us a bit more space and hope that this would be enough. Or they wanted to invent the wheel again..They seem to love to take community wishes and turn it into something overly complicated..like LoV..

Yes it might be that they increase the limit over time but how long did it take them to deal with housing (and we still dont even know if they truly deal with it in 4.2). We also still dont have more apartments even though a lot of servers run out of them quite fast and even though they promised us that they would increase the number if its needed..So I remain skeptic that they will handle that in a good way.

Even the Japanese players told them in the last liveletter that 10 ensembles is too low..and Yoshida was like "give us a break"..no we wont..you could have worked on such a system for a long time but decided to just introduce it after a lot of complains..its not our fault that they like to ignore problems as long as possible..

If you truly need a macro to change stuff then I will just use this dresser as another retainer and put some of my glamour in this and just use the old system..and if they do not increase the limit by 5.0 or have any other plans to introduce a true glamour book..well I am not sure if I am going to play that game after that..

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I indeed think it's laughable that people think the Devs are that disconnected or clueless. .. but it's what people have posted, so .. common consensus.

People will always ask for results without knowing the challenges as long as they aren't in the industry. Unfortunately most of the people demanding results here are also very young and have a hard time with empathizing a position they've never been in.

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People wanted to have pet battles that are like Pokemon or something like WoW..yet they gave us LoV which was death on arrival..seems they truly listened to us here. ;) Also Diadem got a lot of feedback and yet somehow SE managed to mess up the second version even more..so yes I believe that sometimes truly dont understand what we want..or just dont care and want to create something new and complicated for the sake of it..

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Honestly. No joke. How many full outfits do you need glamoured at once at any given time?

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Well gatherers often have one outfit that is often BiS and crafters too. So if I want different outfits for each of these classes I will already need all ten of them..thats without any battle jobs. So yes 10 is not enough.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

People wanted to have pet battles that are like Pokemon or something like WoW..yet they gave us LoV which was death on arrival..seems they truly listened to us here. ;) Also Diadem got a lot of feedback and yet somehow SE managed to mess up the second version even more..so yes I believe that sometimes truly dont understand what we want..or just dont care and want to create something new and complicated for the sake of it..

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So.. you wanted pokemon . Alright awesome, pokemon IS super fun. YOU wanted pokemon, other people asked "let us do more with our minions" . I don't remember a huge outcry for pokemon particularly, nor anyone detailing any reasonable system. I actually enjoy LoV (I just like minions really). Bummer other people don't, however they DID listen to "let us do something with our minions".
People said: we want RNG gear and difficult content. SE implemented Diadem. People apparently didn't want THAT kind of difficult content AND the RNG in the same place.

THings fail, people don't know what they really want.

Any company that listened to someone proposing something "new and complicated for the sake of it" is committing suicide and an established and successful company isn't going to do things for those reasons. SE screws up for sure, but it's because they're trying to create content we'd pay to access and sometimes they do it wrong.

I understand you're frustrated with what you got when you asked for apples and got grapes, but that doesn't mean the company is doing it because they want to be contrary. What they heard was a request for fruit and did their best. Sometimes things happen because there are limitations and struggles we are not privy to.

It's disheartening to see the devs cook up something decent and before anyone even gets a taste the forums explode with people saying it sucks and/or they want more than that.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

Yoshi P listed WoW: Legion as his game of the year. There is an almost ZERO percent chance they don't understand that people want something similar, or nearly identical to WoW's. We can armchair dev all we want, very, very few players would even be able to understand how the system works if a dev sat down and explained it to them, and fewer still could even begin to suggest actual methods of improving/changing the new system we're getting on any sort of technical level.

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As one of the people who would understand it, I wish they would. I'd be so fascinated by just how they ended up at this solution, and what is going on in the backend to make it make more sense than the "glamour log" (aka: WoW system) everyone wanted. Dealing with weird technical problems caused by someone fifteen years ago making a decision that seemingly made sense at the time but is awful in hindsight is part of my day job, and it's always fun to hear other people's stories.

I understand why they don't do that, though. Aside from not wanting to tell competitors all about their backend limitations, most of the playerbase wouldn't understand it and the hostile ones would just turn it into a bash fest. It's too bad, really. As it stands now, all I can do is be baffled and assume they didn't have the budget to do anything more complicated than another inventory that only works in certain zones (like the chocobo bags we're also getting), because both of those can be built off existing systems whereas a full glamour log can't.