[spoiler] empire might vs eorzea might

According to the Lore book (which I referenced for my entire post) the Beastmen started summoning their Primals right after the Battle for Silvertear sky, where Midgardsormr and the Garlean fleet fought.

To quote the relevant section:
"Not long after Midgardsormr's demise, something unexplained occurred. Eorzea's beast tribes began summoning their own gods - the "primals" - into the corporeal realm. Dubbed "eikons" by the Garleans who questioned their divine origins, these powerful creatures were deemed a threat to imperial rule and soon made a target of its armies. XIVth Legion legatus, Gaius van Baelsar, quickly observed the futility of engaging the eikons in battle, as the vanquished "gods" were brought back time and again through the use of crystals and prayer. Moreover, there were increasing reports that the "blessings" of these primal beings were transforming men into fanatics who would turn on their own kind in the names of their new rulers. Without a proper military strategy to address the eikon threat, Emperor Solus zos Galvus would eventually order Baelsar to suspend the Eorzean campaign." Page 38, Encyclopaedia Eorzea.

While the failed first invasion did force them to pull back momentarily, it was the rise of the primal threat that caused Garlemald to call of any further invasion attempts, at least until they could find a solution to the primal problem.

Nael came to the attention of the emperor with his successful conquests in Orthad. As the emperor was looking for a why to deal with the primals and annex Eorzea Nael came to him with a potential solution. In his families archive of Allag records they had found evidence that Dalamud was actually a Allag satellite of extraordinary power. The Garleans first attempts to contact Dalamud resulted in the Bozja Citidel where the lunar transmitter was situated and the city around it being vaporised, along with Cid's dad. This put the Emperor of the idea but Nael convinced the emperor to reconsider by suggesting drawing this power down on Eorzea to resolve the stalemate there. Thus Nael, with the emperor's blessing, instigated the Meteor project.

Relevant quote:
"Neal van Darnus, however, was not yet ready to abandon his obsession with the Meteor Project, refusing to allow the efforts of House Darnus to be left for naught. After learning of his deployment to Eorzea, van Darnus knew his wait was over and seized upon the opportunity to appeal to the Emperor regarding the merits of resurrecting the project, claiming he had discovered a means by which to successfully control Dalamud. After enduring a decade-long stalemate on the Eorzean front, the aged Emperor, impatient to solidify his legacy before his death, had once again become willing to entertain the notion of a realm-wide "cleansing' of the beastmen and their eikons. Thus the second phase of the Meteor Project was commenced." Page 41, Encyclopaedia Eorzea

In short that means what happened in 1.0 was a mission by the Garlean Empire to do pretty much exactly what Nael set out to do, pull down Dalamud, with authorisation by the Emperor. Gaius didn't like the idea as he wanted there to be something to conquer but since the orders were from the Emperor he didn't have much choice. Every Garlean incursion in 1.0 wasn't part of an invasion but to set up what was required to carry out the Meteor project. The lore book also states it was mostly the 7th Legion that was involved in incursions in Eorzea. The 14th mostly stayed in support in Ala Mhigo.

MORE TO COME.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Which then raises the question of why they were conquered in the first place. If Doma and Ala Mhigo weren't able to provide much for the Empire, why conquer them at all (beyond Ala Mhigo's strategic value as a gateway to the rest of Eorzea)?

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Garlemald wants to have all the continents under it's wing and I assume if they succeeded they would look for more continents to absorb. It's been confirmed they have no interest in islands which is why hingashi is relatively safe and even trades with them. It wouldn't surprise me if the magitek they got was inspired by garlean designs since garlemald deals technology to island nations to help fund their conquest.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

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I'm not sure what sources you're using (just 1.x cutscenes?), but you're seriously underestimating the prominence of Primals in Garlean Eorzea campaign. In fact, Primals were the reason they sent such a huge force to take Silvertear in the first place - after taking heavy losses to Primals in their conquest of Othard, they wanted to secure the enormous aether supply under Silvertear to ensure that such beings wouldn't be an issue in Eorzea. And when they not only failed to do that but actually made it easier for Eorzean beastmen to summon their gods, the whole campaign was put on hold. Sure, the XIVth Legion suffered some pretty big losses, but Garlemald as a whole was hardly licking its wounds. No, the reason they pulled back was strategic - to find a solution to Primals, implement it, and then re-start their expansion into Aldenard. The Meteor Project was supposed to be one such solution; Ultima, another (albeit one unsanctioned by the Emperor). As it stands, Garlemald isn't willing to expand into territories where Primals can be used against them.

Give this a read - it lays out the whole of 1.x's story, including what I posted above, and it's endorsed by the dev team to boot.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

"Not long after Midgardsormr's demise, something unexplained occurred. Eorzea's beast tribes began summoning their own gods - the "primals" - into the corporeal realm. Dubbed "eikons" by the Garleans who questioned their divine origins, these powerful creatures were deemed a threat to imperial rule and soon made a target of its armies. XIVth Legion legatus, Gaius van Baelsar, quickly observed the futility of engaging the eikons in battle, as the vanquished "gods" were brought back time and again through the use of crystals and prayer. Moreover, there were increasing reports that the "blessings" of these primal beings were transforming men into fanatics who would turn on their own kind in the names of their new rulers. Without a proper military strategy to address the eikon threat, Emperor Solus zos Galvus would eventually order Baelsar to suspend the Eorzean campaign." Page 38, Encyclopaedia Eorzea.

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Eorzean beast tribes, not the empire, like said the loose of the fleet did leave them in dire situation, unable to cope with this sort of thing, when they did stop the invasion plan, because with a diminish air fleet it was unable to be sure to suppress the beastman without heavy loose. what i have said all a long. most of the whole fleet was destroyed by midgardsorm... it was a huge blows, since the emperor was a smart man, he was wanting to have enough troops for face the beastman and them eikon, that why the second invasion was soo long later.

your second quote one more time go in my sense, nael objective was different of gaius, yes, the emperor did acknowledge nael plan, but gaius and nael have two different objective, in the quest it's often appear that the two have conflict over them position and how do it.

Giaus is the leader of the 14th legion, i doubt another general of legion did leave his legion without show up.
and in V1 only gaius and nael was shown.

you read the lore book that nice, but personally i did experience this stuff.

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

I'm not sure what sources you're using (just 1.x cutscenes?), but you're seriously underestimating the prominence of Primals in Garlean Eorzea campaign. In fact, Primals were the reason they sent such a huge force to take Silvertear in the first place - after taking heavy losses to Primals in their conquest of Othard, they wanted to secure the enormous aether supply under Silvertear to ensure that such beings wouldn't be an issue in Eorzea. And when they not only failed to do that but actually made it easier for Eorzean beastmen to summon their gods, the whole campaign was put on hold. Sure, the XIVth Legion suffered some pretty big losses, but Garlemald as a whole was hardly licking its wounds. No, the reason they pulled back was strategic - to find a solution to Primals, implement it, and then re-start their expansion into Aldenard. The Meteor Project was supposed to be one such solution; Ultima, another (albeit one unsanctioned by the Emperor). As it stands, Garlemald isn't willing to expand into territories where Primals can be used against them.

Give this a read - it lays out the whole of 1.x's story, including what I posted above, and it's endorsed by the dev team to boot.

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simply no, the eikon (aka primal) was freed at the battle of silvertear... not before. one more time it's show in the first opening trailer of FF14, that the event that did lead to our situation, midgarsorm was keeping the seal, but when he did "die" the seal was broken and the eikon was freed.
here the opening part covering silvertear: https://youtu.be/Bvu87PD_BTc?t=235
you will notice after the flagship and midgarsorm are exploding some light leave and inside them you can see ifrit, titan and such... that the eikon liberation. the fleet was that important simply because the empire was wanting a fast invasion. with the different city states far below them in terms of technology and troops it was deemed easy... but well.

before Silvertear, no eikon was summoned, since they was all sealed since the allagan times... same the beastman didn't summon them directly, since like said you need 2 element for a summoning, prayer and a large quantity of crystal, without both you can't do it!

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

you read the lore book that nice, but personally i did experience this stuff.

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Anyone who has seen the cutscenes of 1.x has "lived it" as much as you have. Everyone you're arguing with here has not only done that, but has also read a fair number of interviews, the article I linked you (did you read it? It's an official account of events), and the Encyclopedia Eorzea. And I'm telling you, as Belhi and others are, that the Primals have been a major factor in the Garlean Empire's conquests since well before Silvertear. This isn't a guess on our part - it's a widely-accepted fact within the game's lore, outright stated by multiple official sources.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

simply no, the eikon (aka primal) was freed at the battle of silvertear... not before. one more time it's show in the first opening trailer of FF14, that the event that did lead to our situation, midgarsorm was keeping the seal, but when he did "die" the seal was broken and the eikon was freed.
here the opening part covering silvertear: https://youtu.be/Bvu87PD_BTc?t=235
you will notice after the flagship and midgarsorm are exploding some light leave and inside them you can see ifrit, titan and such... that the eikon liberation.

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If that image of the Primals "escaping" was ever completely literal, it has since been somewhat retconned into a metaphorical image - with the reserves under Silvertear burst, aether was now flowing far more freely across the land, making it easier than ever to summon. But it wasn't impossible to do beforehand; they weren't "locked away", or whatever, they just required an amount of aether that was previously extremely difficult to get, and afterwards wasn't, so they were freed in the sense that the Beastmen could now summon them freely.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

before Silvertear, no eikon was summoned, since they was all sealed since the allagan times... same the beastman didn't summon them directly, since like said you need 2 element for a summoning, prayer and a large quantity of crystal, without both you can't do it!

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Again, did you read the summary I linked before? It is now considered canon that the Empire encountered Primals on Othard, before they ever set foot on Eorzea.

(Also, you don't need crystals specifically. Aether is the key word here. Crystals are just solidified aether; they're a convenient source, but any will do).

The issue was never lacking the troops. It was lacking an effective strategy. Why do you think Gaius waited till he had the Ultima Weapon to move to conquer Eorzea? He (and Garlemald in general) were seeking a way to effectively counter primals in a more permanent fashion after learning that the Allag had done so. It was the lack of an effective strategy which stopped further invasion, not lack of numbers. It took 10 years from the battle of Silvertear Sky to the Meteor project. An empire the size of Garlemald doesn't take that long to send reinforcements.

The Emperor approved the Meteor project. Are you suggesting he sent Gaius to invade a land he was about to inflict a 'realm-wide cleansing' on? The lore book pretty explicitly states that almost all incursions were by the 7th Legion, not the 14th. The 14th was also not present on the field at the Battle for Cartenueau. The forces there were the 7th legion, apparently sent by their now dead leader, to insure there was no interference with the decent of Dalamud. Gaius himself was the one who warned the Eorzean Alliance about the presence on the battle field. Gaius himself however did not invade Eorzea at any time during the lead up to the fall of Dalamud. Instead it was after when the realm was in a shambles that he sent his legion to establish his network of Castrums.

I can't find any reference to orders from the Emperor for Gaius to invade during the Meteor Project or really any evidence they he even tried. Castrum Novum was 7th Legion. Darkhold and Toto-rak were 7th Legion. Cartenueau was 7th Legion. The lore book explicitly states this.

The lore book was written by Oda and translated by Koji. I think it is reasonably legit in how canon it is.

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

Anyone who has seen the cutscenes of 1.x has "lived it" as much as you have. Everyone you're arguing with here has not only done that, but has also read a fair number of interviews, the article I linked you (did you read it? It's an official account of events), and the Encyclopedia Eorzea. And I'm telling you, as Belhi and others are, that the Primals have been a major factor in the Garlean Empire's conquests since well before Silvertear. This isn't a guess on our part - it's a widely-accepted fact within the game's lore, outright stated by multiple official sources.

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Actually the lore book seems to imply that the Empire wasn't used to dealing with Primals when they ran into them in Eorzea. Rather the anti Eikon attitude of the Garleans was founded after Solus saw the damage that a primal had done to the land, sucking the life out of it and turning it into a wasteland. I think Eorzea was where they really started to face them in combat though.

That said, the sudden frequency of summoning of primals in Eorzea seem to be as much due to the Ascians teaching the Beast tribes summoning rituals Silvertear exploding. We don't honestly know what is/was under Silvertear. From what we know of primals it seems odd that the literal primals we face were there as they are shaped by the beliefs of the beast tribes that summon them and it seems unlikely that Titan was summoned prior to Silvertear, particularly if no primals had been summoned since the times of Allag (which may or may not be true). I can't of the top of my head thing of one. Technically one could be as all it requires is belief and enough Aether.

Given that Varis is even more passionate about dealing with Primals/Eikons than Solus I can't help but suspect that there is much more to it all - a piece of the puzzle that we do not yet know. Varis seems to be convinced that Hydaelyn as a whole - which he refers to as a 'Star' - suffers immensely and risks being snuffed out as a result of the summoning process. He isn't wrong, either. Yet he seems to know a lot of the same things that the Warrior of Light has come to know. A certain shadowy figure cannot be wholly responsible for that knowledge, either, as it appears as though Varis has only been dealing with him recently due to the lack of trust and familiarity. My guess is that a lot of the information came about through Allagan records.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Given that Varis is even more passionate about dealing with Primals/Eikons than Solus I can't help but suspect that there is much more to it all - a piece of the puzzle that we do not yet know. Varis seems to be convinced that Hydaelyn as a whole - which he refers to as a 'Star' - suffers immensely and risks being snuffed out as a result of the summoning process. He isn't wrong, either. Yet he seems to know a lot of the same things that the Warrior of Light has come to know. A certain shadowy figure cannot be wholly responsible for that knowledge, either, as it appears as though Varis has only been dealing with him recently due to the lack of trust and familiarity. My guess is that a lot of the information came about through Allagan records.

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I agree. Varis may know a lot more than we are aware of. He may even know more than us. That said, we still might not agree with his plans or we might end up knowing something crucial that he has missed. Varis is marked as a brilliant strategist and tactician so his actions and plans are almost certainly very deliberately thought out. I said this before but Varis's more tyrannical approach may have more to do with felling he has to do whatever is necessary to prepare/use his empire to deal with the threat to Hydaelyn than any particular leanings towards tyranny.

That said, Garlean oppression, aggressive conquest and abuse seems to predate all that so I wouldn't call it a wide ranging excuse of the Garlean Empire's policies since its founding. I wonder if Solus took over through coup or through political means? The lore book doesn't state, just that he over through the leadership of the republic to establish the current Imperial structure.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Actually the lore book seems to imply that the Empire wasn't used to dealing with Primals when they ran into them in Eorzea. Rather the anti Eikon attitude of the Garleans was founded after Solus saw the damage that a primal had done to the land, sucking the life out of it and turning it into a wasteland. I think Eorzea was where they really started to face them in combat though.

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Sure. My point was that (a) Primals had been summoned on Hydaelyn between the fall of Allag and the battle of Silvertear Skies, and (b) that one said summoning - or its aftermath! - heavily inspired Garlean expansionist policy.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

From what we know of primals it seems odd that the literal primals we face were there as they are shaped by the beliefs of the beast tribes that summon them and it seems unlikely that Titan was summoned prior to Silvertear...

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And that’s why that sequence pretty much has to be metaphorical.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

...particularly if no primals had been summoned since the times of Allag (which may or may not be true). I can't of the top of my head thing of one. Technically one could be as all it requires is belief and enough Aether.

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That’s another point though - at least one obviously was, as it (or its effects) set Garlemald on a very specific crusade against them before they set foot on Eorzea. I suppose it’s possible that said effects were experienced either through archaeology or old chronicles of the matter, but given Koji’s enthusiastic endorsement of Rise and Fall and lack of evidence otherwise, it’s hard to lend that idea much credence.

Tbh I think that garlean R&D is a bit too fast for the alliance to keep up with, during raubanh extreme that magitek suit was considered a prototype but at the time of the doman liberation it was already mass produced, later in castrum we yet see more new models and I can already see inferno appearing later as the magitek behemoth or something.
I'm not really seeing this advancement on the alliance front tbh, the only reason why we win is because it's our story, but the alliance as a whole is kinda a failure as a force.
Besides how can the alliance approach the heart of the empire if we assume that they have fortified their borders with cannons like the one in castrum abania? Or do we need to suppose Estinien is gonna take them out all of them for us if they do idd exist?

Yeah that is a valid point Hinoto-no-Ryuji. For a primal to have sucked the Aether from the land a primal would have had to be summoned in the first place.

Regardless in this particular case it seems to have been the primals in Eorzea that lead to the Empire ceasing any further conquest until they could find an effective strategy to counter them.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Tbh I think that garlean R&D is a bit too fast for the alliance to keep up with, during raubanh extreme that magitek suit was considered a prototype but at the time of the doman liberation it was already mass produced, later in castrum we yet see more new models and I can already see inferno appearing later as the magitek behemoth or something.
I'm not really seeing this advancement on the alliance front tbh, the only reason why we win is because it's our story, but the alliance as a whole is kinda a failure as a force.
Besides how can the alliance approach the heart of the empire if we assume that they have fortified their borders with cannons like the one in castrum abania? Or do we need to suppose Estinien is gonna take them out all of them for us if they do idd exist?

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Its a valid point. However its worth noting that Doma Castle was also an R&D facility of the 12th Legion who seem to have been behind the development of the new Magitech.

I think both sides are evolving pretty quickly. Considering the Grand Companies are really only a few years old they have progressed very quickly into well ordered and functional armies. More over we see across the Job quests all the Grand Companies taking up old and new disciplines.

The Maelstrom now has a unit trained as Warriors and Limsa's martial schools have had the strategies and techniques of the Royal Marines introduced even if we haven't seen any other scholars yet. Further the Rogues guild has apparently been having members taught techniques by Yugiri during her stay (though admittedly Captian Jacke shows no sign of having learn anything new).

Ul'dah's Paladin order has been growing in strength recently with a substancial influx of new members. In addition to that they now have a unit of summoners. While Black magic is still forbidden the first signs that under careful selection there may be a time where Black Mages will find a place serving Eorzea's interests again.

Ishgard already had a well trained army of knights and Dragoons (who are now starting to rebuild relations with dragonkind). On top of that the training of Astrologians is well under way and gaining popularity as is the Machinist profession among the common classes. While they might not be quite the R&D machine Garlemald is, the engineers of Ishgard are always developing and improving their tech. Considering how new they are they have come in leaps and bounds.

In Gridania the first signs of the Bard Job being integrated into units has started. If it became wide spread this would greatly increase the effectiveness of Gridania's rank and file. White magic is still restricted but the Padjal are becoming more proactive.

Finally Ala Mhigo doesn't have a standing army but we see the current members of both the Fist of Rhalgr and the Crimson Duelists looking to start rebuilding their order.

Perhaps it might not be the same as Garlemald but we definitely see a steady increase in the military capacity and strength of the Eorzean Alliance's forces. That said, they still really wouldn't stand a chance actually trying to invade Ishgard.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

... Garlean oppression, aggressive conquest and abuse seems to predate all that so I wouldn't call it a wide ranging excuse of the Garlean Empire's policies since its founding. I wonder if Solus took over through coup or through political means? The lore book doesn't state, just that he over through the leadership of the republic to establish the current Imperial structure.

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This is why I have such disdain for the Empire. Decisively dealing with the primals is simply a convenient excuse for Imperial conquest; the brutality and enforced atheism cannot be accounted for, though.

Given Solus' rise to power is heavily inspired by Julius Caesar, one can only surmise that his accomplishments on the battlefield gave Solus the support of the common people, and so when he crowned himself Emperor there was little outcry. (I believe the Lore Book says this in his bio, though I cannot verify as I do not own one.)

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

... (a) Primals had been summoned on Hydaelyn between the fall of Allag and the battle of Silvertear Skies, and (b) that one said summoning - or its aftermath! - heavily inspired Garlean expansionist policy.

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The first point is true.

The second is highly debatable if not entirely false. By the time the Empire encountered a primal, it had already conquered all of Ilsabard. It was when Solus set his sights on Othard that first primal was summoned against Imperial forces. Thus, one can only surmise that quelling the primal threat is simply a convenient excuse for Imperial expansionism (or: the Empire would still be conquering more territory even if primals weren't a threat).

Ironically, this means that Imperial goals and Imperial means are contradictory - attacking other nations in the name of preventing summonings causes them to happen in response to the attack, creating a self-reinforcing feedback loop.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

The second is highly debatable if not entirely false. By the time the Empire encountered a primal, it had already conquered all of Ilsabard. It was when Solus set his sights on Othard that first primal was summoned against Imperial forces. Thus, one can only surmise that quelling the primal threat is simply a convenient excuse for Imperial expansionism (or: the Empire would still be conquering more territory even if primals weren't a threat).

Ironically, this means that Imperial goals and Imperial means are contradictory - attacking other nations in the name of preventing summonings causes them to happen in response to the attack, creating a self-reinforcing feedback loop.

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Perhaps “inspired” was the wrong word. I should clarify: I didn’t mean “inspired it from the word go”, I meant “inspired it after encountering them” - that is to say, considering that avoiding the need to deal with Primals was a major consideration when planning the approach to Eorzea, and that the existence of Primals also worked its way into Imperial rhetoric and raison de guerre, I’d say that their expansionist policy as it exists now was born of Primal encounter.

Garlemald's initial expansion, at least, was a matter of reclaiming lost territory and striking back at those that had persecuted them. To understand Garlemald, one needs to put themselves in the shoes of a race that lack the ability to manipulate aether and have been forced to carve out a living for themselves in a harsh wasteland. Their time enduring such a lifestyle hardened them, which should not at all be surprising. Nor should it be surprising for people pushed around to lash out in response to persecution and abuse...which works both ways, as we see with Garlemald and with the people living in Gyr Abania/Yanxia.

It is also likely that some of the aggressive expansion is driven by a fear of being persecuted once more, thus creating a cycle that needs to be broken in a way that does not simply result in that happening. As for their policy on Eikons, it is admirable - aside from the methods used. Yet objectively, having seen what Lakshmi and her followers were capable of back in 4.1's MSQ's it is not hard to realise just how terrifying and damaging Eikons/Primals can be. They're not simply conjured forth by battle, either - selfish, powerful individuals could easily gather the resources required to arrange for a city to be destroyed from the inside out if given the opportunity. The Warrior of Light is, at present, a luxury only some have been able to lean upon. Those who do not have the convenience of the Warrior of Light are forced to rely on either submitting, fleeing their homes, fighting back (with a very high cost) or relying on grim but effective preventative methods.

Solus was the first person in power who saw what the ceruleum engine could lead to verses Garlamald's enemies. He was the one who pushed for it's further development into magitek weapons and integrated it into the military. He's pretty much responsible for the entire tech revolution that put Garlamald on even footing with the rest of the world, which to be honest, they really needed. Only once that had happened, he went further and started using magitck to expand Garlemald's borders. By the time he went to take over Dalmasca, the Garlean people all but asked him to become Emperor.

It should be noted the most of the democratic functions of the Garlean government are still in place (even though their influence is very limited) and that their republic had been around for 500 years before it became a dictatorship. It also should be noted that the entire reason the republic existed in the first place was to expel foreign invaders from Garlamald and that other countries never actually stopped trying to invade it until magitek was invented and it invaded them in turn. To say Garlemald's situation is complicated is a vast understatement.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Its a valid point. However its worth noting that Doma Castle was also an R&D facility of the 12th Legion who seem to have been behind the development of the new Magitech.

I think both sides are evolving pretty quickly. Considering the Grand Companies are really only a few years old they have progressed very quickly into well ordered and functional armies. More over we see across the Job quests all the Grand Companies taking up old and new disciplines.

The Maelstrom now has a unit trained as Warriors and Limsa's martial schools have had the strategies and techniques of the Royal Marines introduced even if we haven't seen any other scholars yet. Further the Rogues guild has apparently been having members taught techniques by Yugiri during her stay (though admittedly Captian Jacke shows no sign of having learn anything new).

Ul'dah's Paladin order has been growing in strength recently with a substancial influx of new members. In addition to that they now have a unit of summoners. While Black magic is still forbidden the first signs that under careful selection there may be a time where Black Mages will find a place serving Eorzea's interests again.

Ishgard already had a well trained army of knights and Dragoons (who are now starting to rebuild relations with dragonkind). On top of that the training of Astrologians is well under way and gaining popularity as is the Machinist profession among the common classes. While they might not be quite the R&D machine Garlemald is, the engineers of Ishgard are always developing and improving their tech. Considering how new they are they have come in leaps and bounds.

In Gridania the first signs of the Bard Job being integrated into units has started. If it became wide spread this would greatly increase the effectiveness of Gridania's rank and file. White magic is still restricted but the Padjal are becoming more proactive.

Finally Ala Mhigo doesn't have a standing army but we see the current members of both the Fist of Rhalgr and the Crimson Duelists looking to start rebuilding their order.

Perhaps it might not be the same as Garlemald but we definitely see a steady increase in the military capacity and strength of the Eorzean Alliance's forces. That said, they still really wouldn't stand a chance actually trying to invade Ishgard.

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The Problem as I said it's the speed of their R&D and how they actively try to improve on oppositions. As said the armor that we see at the start of the exp is already mass produced by the end of it, even the magitek armored weapon that was a new sight in the wall has become already a standard unit, also let's not forget that they are plating all their armors with magic resistant alloys (gilded magitek armor).

I wouldn't say that the jobs progressions on the city state of eorzea is really proceeding at the same speed which that as I said it's the problem, not to mention that they lack completely in air superiority unless we count dragons, but given hrasvelgr characters I don't see that happening soon besides given garlemand fixation with allagans tech it's not so impossible they might repurpose neurolinks.

That said Even with jobs added to the ranks, they are not the wol, they are effectively cannon fodder, they are essentially swordfighters hurling themselves against tanks, we've seen with the battle of castellum velodya that if it wasn't for the us steamrolling fordola, Raubanh would've forced to retreat, same with the siege of ala mhigo were everything was saved by the timely arrival of the yols or the alliance would've been gunned down by the air armors, actually that clearly shows how unprepaired the entire alliance really is with a full scale war with garlemand, forgetting about their Air force was a terrible mistake

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Garlemald's initial expansion, at least, was a matter of reclaiming lost territory and striking back at those that had persecuted them. To understand Garlemald, one needs to put themselves in the shoes of a race that lack the ability to manipulate aether and have been forced to carve out a living for themselves in a harsh wasteland. Their time enduring such a lifestyle hardened them, which should not at all be surprising. Nor should it be surprising for people pushed around to lash out in response to persecution and abuse...which works both ways, as we see with Garlemald and with the people living in Gyr Abania/Yanxia.

It is also likely that some of the aggressive expansion is driven by a fear of being persecuted once more, thus creating a cycle that needs to be broken in a way that does not simply result in that happening. As for their policy on Eikons, it is admirable - aside from the methods used. Yet objectively, having seen what Lakshmi and her followers were capable of back in 4.1's MSQ's it is not hard to realise just how terrifying and damaging Eikons/Primals can be. They're not simply conjured forth by battle, either - selfish, powerful individuals could easily gather the resources required to arrange for a city to be destroyed from the inside out if given the opportunity. The Warrior of Light is, at present, a luxury only some have been able to lean upon. Those who do not have the convenience of the Warrior of Light are forced to rely on either submitting, fleeing their homes, fighting back (with a very high cost) or relying on grim but effective preventative methods.

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The argument over reclaiming lands, and I would point out it is bit of a stretch since your talking about land they were driven out of over 200 years before Ala Mhigo was even founded, would have been retaken in some of the very first conquests. It seems unlikely that the Garleans were driven from the very southern reaches of Ilsebard to the very northern ones. More over, it sounds like the Garleans offered a lot more carrot along with their stick back then. The improvements to quality of life from Magitech was a big attraction to many living in the conquered lands which helped the Garleans build up their army so quickly. Also being on the receiving end of abuse doesn't really justify being abusive, it just explains it.

One of the reasons I really hope we go to Garlemald next is to get a chance to see the Garlean mindset more clearly. There is a lot to suggest that while Garleans value unity, they are a people with very strong differences in views, attitudes and beliefs and not at all above fighting over those things amongst themselves. In essence they are people. I think it will also be interesting to see the Ironworks crew in their native culture if they come along. Biggs and Wedge come from annexed lands and the lowest classes while Jesse and Cid come from higher in the social caste system. All of them however chose the path they did out of a strong viewpoint that clashed with the imperial doctrine.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Given Solus' rise to power is heavily inspired by Julius Caesar, one can only surmise that his accomplishments on the battlefield gave Solus the support of the common people, and so when he crowned himself Emperor there was little outcry. (I believe the Lore Book says this in his bio, though I cannot verify as I do not own one.)

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Solus did have popular support after the success his new magitech forces showed. My only comment was if the leaders of the republic recognised the way the wind was blowing and handed over the power when he asked for it or wether he did it by force. Since the senate does still exist I supposed it quite probably was the first.

IMO, the Empire in the game are pretty much like the Empire/First Order from Star Wars and we are the Rebellion. Things really match well with the game and Star Wars. Instead of "The Force" we have the "Echo". The Empire rely too heavily on their technology and conscripts, who loath the Empire they have to fight for in the first place, whereas we have worked our way out through countless trials, to become highly skilled and motivated as we are fighting for our homeland and the freedom of everyone Elorsia.

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Originally Posted by FelixDaCat

IMO, the Empire in the game are pretty much like the Empire/First Order from Star Wars and we are the Rebellion. Things really match well with the game and Star Wars. Instead of "The Force" we have the "Echo". The Empire rely too heavily on their technology and conscripts, who loath the Empire they have to fight for in the first place, whereas we have worked our way out through countless trials, to become highly skilled and motivated as we are fighting for our homeland and the freedom of everyone Elorsia.

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Which is kinda why I DON’T want to see the Garlean empire be destroyed, despite some difficult signs pointing towards not only this, but having no actual Garleans around at ALL. Its an utterly boring end to an people that have spent half the time defeating themselves, and the other half doing showpieces of how mean and unscrupulous they are. In stories like this, there is always this urge by the writers to make people of “the empire”, just not act like people, unless they are defectors or some aid to the hero.