Survey: Community Opinions Regarding Parsing/Parsers in Final Fantasy XIV

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

How do you plan on accounting for bias and determining an accurate sample? Forums in general aren't representative of a playerbase as a whole for most games and I suspect your question will lead to a polarized sample instead of a representative one; IE, those that have strong feelings will be more likely to participate than those in the middle.

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Not only that, but I've seen so many fervent anti-parsers here who are convinced that parsing in ANY form (even personal) being added to XIV will automatically unsub them from XIV and instead sub them to WoW.

I'm sure these people are clicking on the "Pro Parser" survey and clicking every response that sounds like "I want parsing because I want to be a gigantic flaming jerk to everyone".

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Not only that, but I've seen so many fervent anti-parsers here who are convinced that parsing in ANY form (even personal) being added to XIV will automatically unsub them from XIV and instead sub them to WoW.

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Boy are they in for a surprise in WoW! Reminds me of Republicans who were like "if gay marraige goes through I'm moving to Canada!"

Umm, about that...

Cool thing. But I feel the result might be polarizing because people have bias and potentially lying. Still would be interesting to see how it goes though.

Im totally against parsing of any kind. I hate being judged and personally games like this should be a fun experience with friends. They shouldnt become an avenue for harrasment or judgement or competition (excluding PvP as its designed to be competetive).
I quit the raiding scene when folks in my raid group suddenly became obsessed with parsing and their attitudes shifted to very competitive and they began role-restricting what jobs we should have to play. I just want to have fun and do my best on the job(s) I like to play. I just want to enjoy my time in XIV, and since I quit raiding Ive been able to do that peacefully. This game would only become more toxic with parsing and people would just stop including players who didnt quite make the bill. (Even if they are actually very good people.)

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Boy are they in for a surprise in WoW! Reminds me of Republicans who were like "if gay marraige goes through I'm moving to Canada!"

Umm, about that...

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I've raided in both games and I honestly don't find WoW's community to be any worse than XIV's unless you're talking about some bad LFRs in WoW.

WoW's forum community is also sadly better than XIV's. If you make a QoL suggestion (like "It would be nice if ______ worked better") on WoW's forums, people are typically like, "Yeah, that'd be nice to have."

In XIV's forums, making a QoL suggestion often gets you a bunch of responses explaining how you can "work around" the issue, as though they're the ones who will need to implement this QoL change or something...

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Originally Posted by Vespar

Im totally against parsing of any kind. I hate being judged and personally games like this should be a fun experience with friends. They shouldnt become an avenue for harrasment or judgement or competition (excluding PvP as its designed to be competetive).
I quit the raiding scene when folks in my raid group suddenly became obsessed with parsing and their attitudes shifted to very competitive and they began role-restricting what jobs we should have to play. I just want to have fun and do my best on the job(s) I like to play. I just want to enjoy my time in XIV, and since I quit raiding Ive been able to do that peacefully. This game would only become more toxic with parsing and people would just stop including players who didnt quite make the bill. (Even if they are actually very good people.)

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Sorry to burst your bubble, but people in a raid NEED to be obsessed with DPS because raid encounters have a lot of DPS checks where, unless the raid can do a certain amount of damage in a set period of time, you wipe.

I realize you want to have fun in XIV, but so do the people who raid and nothing is less fun than wiping repeatedly because of underperforming DPS.

If you want to blame someone, blame SE for adding DPS checks to raid encounters. There is literally no one else at fault...

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Sorry to burst your bubble, but people in a raid NEED to be obsessed with DPS.

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Dont misunderstand my words (or twist them to fit your own view). I didnt say I wasnt obsessed with my DPS or quality of play. I spent lots of time practicing on dummies and perfecting my jobs rotations. HOWEVER, I actually perform worse when I know Im being parsed because I panic and that causes me to actually miss things or mess up my rotations. I know Im not the only one who does either. Call it peer pressure situation. But really a parser is not needed to do effective DPS. We've shown that time and again already as people keep trucking through raid content as it is. Through trial and error, and learning to operate as a group my old raid group and I took down every raid we went to and I had fun wiping and learning and trying. It made me feel more accomplished when we won. But when parsing became a thing and they started to get obsessed with every little thing, thats when it wasnt fun anymore.

I’ve only experiences harassment when it comes to parsers; even someone I consider a friend had to be told not to call other people scrubs, etc. over it even in a joking manner because so many people were upset about it. Also, you can’t trust this survey as there is no way to prevent people from taking the survey as many times as they want, and also it omits the millions of players across this game in other languages.

Square Enix has a reason why parsers aren’t included in this game. Mainly the amount of harassment that comes from them and the hostilities stemming from the debate over them.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

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You've had a bad experience. But, I'm indifferent to parsing for the most part. Would I like to see one added? Sure, can help me improve (rather not risk it with ACT etc though, 3rd party parsers that could get you banned if SE ever decide to change their "Don't Ask Don't Tell" approach, and apply it retroactively) as a DPS. Could also help try different things. But a personal PPS (Potency Per Second) parser could be good for that. I think over time though, if parsing became the norm, you'd find a way to get around that fear (when the situation is forced one way, it's surprising just how resourceful humans can be), and you would learn to overcome that panic. I can understand why you're vehemently against parsing, but at the same time I think it is possible.

Then again, it also depends on how your static approached it. Were they jerks about it? Were they rude, condescending, etc? Or were they willing to try and accommodate and help bring up the weaker links? Their attitude towards it will have mattered. Sounds to me like they were the idiot types of "Herp derp your DPS is bad you don't belong here herp derp", instead of the "OK, so your DPS is low, consider trying this this and this, and see if it helps. We can help train you up and get you up and running". I don't use a parser but I take the latter approach (like a friend who was struggling with BLM, I gave her a basic foundation for the job, so she's at least getting the basics mostly right, and then allow her to build it up from there).

Did the survey. Not a raider (yet). Just a dungeon/trial/hunt healer who want to improve.

Personally I haven't seen parser-related harassment in this game. (Seen it in other games, seen non-parser-related harassment in this game). I don't doubt that it exists, I just don't think it outweighs the pros of at the very least a personal parser, and I think the kind of people who are jerks with parsing would be jerks without it anyway.

Overall I'm pro-parser.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

But when parsing became a thing and they started to get obsessed with every little thing, thats when it wasnt fun anymore.

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I understand and I'm not trying to say you're wrong or anything, but this is sadly what raiding in XIV (and pretty much every gear-gate MMO) is.

It's all a game of numbers: deal X damage within Y seconds while mitigating/healing Z damage, or you wipe. It's up to the individual group about how ambitious they want to be on that front, and I gave up raiding because I didn't want a second job.

But again, blame SE because they've created the environment in which it's more rewarding if players "encourage" each other to improve.

Been in this game since launch. Raiding since Coil, farmed ponies and birds when they were relevant, so I've been around pf groups a lot. Never been or seen anyone be harassed about their numbers. All I got was a poke that my dps was low way back in ARR, the whole group was very relaxed about it and still let me run with them. But that encouraged me to research my class and its rotations and become a player that can actually be of help to my static now. Ever since, I strive to get better in each run I do, even if it's just a low dungeon. I always give it my all. If I can't commit to that, I don't queue. Cause I don't wanna burden my team.
Personally, I find the current obsession with meta group comps, that's increasing in pf much more worrisome.

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

Personally, I find the current obsession with meta group comps, that's increasing in pf much more worrisome.

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Parsers would actually fix this because it would allow, say, good MCHs to prove how good they are instead of players just assuming that MCH as a class is crap and taking a SAM instead.

Pretty good survey overall only criticism I would have is to separate extremes from savage/ultimate in the category sections. While every one has their own definition of casual; I feel there is more lee way in extreme content then some of the harder savage content. Therefore, I believe it is deserving of its own category when deciding what it should/shouldn't have.

It's never happening because our community can't handle it. I'd love to see my damage on PS4, but I know its never going to happen. It's more likely they'll find a way to break ACT to make the PC/PS4 players even than it is to see them implement a parser.

Also a lot of players typically play the game without going to different websites and stuff, so you'll need to do a lot legwork to get any kind of real data.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I'm sure these people are clicking on the "Pro Parser" survey and clicking every response that sounds like "I want parsing because I want to be a gigantic flaming jerk to everyone".

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The same could be said about pro-parsers clicking on the "anti-parser" survey and wrote something that makes them [anti-parsers] look like incompetent snowflakes, no? Before you start going gaga on me, I'm indifferent about parse and wholeheartedly agree that parser is an invaluable tool for improvement. I even supported your thread about personal parser, but there's civil debate and there's downright slandering paranoia like this.

Does it ever occurred to you that maybe you should try to understand why anti-parsers are so against parsing? Some of their concerns are absolutely valid, albeit I agree with you that sometimes they don't present their arguments in the most... err, mature way... by calling pro-parsers "toxic/elitist". This is why the whole for/anti-parser debate is going in circles; both sides are just too eager to bring the others down by all means necessary.

I just hope both pro/anti-parsers would explain their reasonings eloquently on the survey so that HyoMin could summarize them easily. Maybe then people can eventually sit down and have actual discussion, rather than bashing each other like the oh-so-many-other threads about parsing.

Lastly, thank you HyoMin for taking the time to create this survey. I look forward to seeing the results.

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Originally Posted by Aeducan

A well worded version of a post I was gonna make.

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Please, just take all my likes. :)

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Originally Posted by Aeducan

The same could be said about pro-parsers clicking on the "anti-parser" survey and wrote something that makes them [anti-parsers] look like incompetent snowflakes, no? Before you start going gaga on me, I'm indifferent about parse and wholeheartedly agree that parser is an invaluable tool for improvement. I even supported your thread about personal parser, but there's civil debate and there's downright slandering paranoia like this.

Does it ever occurred to you that maybe you should try to understand why anti-parsers are so against parsing? Some of their concerns are absolutely valid, albeit I agree with you that sometimes they don't present their arguments in the most... err, mature way... by calling pro-parsers "toxic/elitist". This is why the whole for/anti-parser debate is going in circles; both sides are just too eager to bring the others down by all means necessary.

I just hope both pro/anti-parsers would explain their reasonings eloquently on the survey so that HyoMin could summarize them easily. Maybe then people can eventually sit down and have actual discussion, rather than bashing each other like the oh-so-many-other threads about parsing.

Lastly, thank you HyoMin for taking the time to create this survey. I look forward to seeing the results.

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I understand what you're saying (liked your post), but the mentality of the anti-parse community is so massively hypocritical that it's difficult to take them seriously.

Let me summarize this...

When a tank can't hold aggro, they get kicked.

When a healer can't keep the tank alive, they get kicked.

But even when a DPS doing less than half the damage of the healer, suddenly anyone who takes objection to the fact is seen as a literal monster, and all for just expecting that the DPS player play with a level of competency equal to that of the tank and healer.

Why is it okay for two of the three roles to be scrutinized for their performance, but the third must be so thoroughly shielded from feedback of any kind that they're not even allowed to gauge their OWN performance?

There's also the very double-edged argument I keep seeing of "Players should be allowed to go at their own pace, play how they want, etc." while completely ignoring the input of the (at minimum) other three players in the party who may have wanted to clear whatever content this is a great deal faster but had no say in the matter.

Why is it okay to force the other three players to play in a manner THEY don't want to, but you're an elitist monster for expecting the DPS to try to meet those players half way?

Again, the VAST majority of the blame falls upon SE here, because they designed the game in such a way that it demands good play from healers and tanks, but asks absolutely nothing from DPS players UNTIL they suddenly run into the DPS check wall, at which point it's a massive slap in the face.

Having no indicator of how well you're actually performing is just as damaging to DPS players, which is why I feel like personal parsers are the safest bet.

Tanks learn how to hold aggro and mitigate because they have clear indicators of when they're doing well or poorly and can adjust their rotation accordingly. The same goes for healers.

DPS have nothing to go off of (until maybe they get to SSS) and it flies completely in the face of how the game should be teaching them as they level.

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Originally Posted by Singularity

Just to confirm, I clicked through all the different surveys (didn't submit any inappropriately). All of them have the same questions? It's a bit weird that you ask "would you like to see a parser implemented?" in both the "questions for those who are pro" and "questions for those who are anti" surveys.

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Yes, the questions are generally the same across all surveys because I want to see the response trends from pro-parsers, anti-parsers, those who are indifferent/have no opinion, and those who are unsure. Ideally, the survey would have jumped to an appropriate section based upon the answer to the Foundation Question, but features like that are premium/paid features, so I had to do separate surveys for each answer of the Foundation Question.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Ah I just remembered something.

I feel like the survey should have included this question:

Do you raid mostly in a static/fc/friends or do you mostly PUG? (Or both)

I feel like its an important question because who you run with parsers can have a different outlook on parsers.

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That is a fair point. ^^ It would have been interesting to see. And I may have influences on how people treat parsing in general. I suppose I was mainly focused on the "harassment" aspect of parsing, since that is brought up so frequently in debates surrounding them.

I also wished I had included a demographic for Data Centers. Just to see how far my survey reaches. Hindsight is 20/20, after all. ^^ Maybe if I do something like this again on a different topic I can keep something like that in mind.

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Originally Posted by Keeg

Pretty good survey overall only criticism I would have is to separate extremes from savage/ultimate in the category sections. While every one has their own definition of casual; I feel there is more lee way in extreme content then some of the harder savage content. Therefore, I believe it is deserving of its own category when deciding what it should/shouldn't have.

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I appreciate your feedback. Regarding Exteme trials, they should have had their own checkbox regarding the content one usually plays, and I did not use them as part of my definition for who a "raider" is. Since a lot of the raiders I have spoken to recently do not really consider Extremes in the same category as Savage/Ultimate.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

It's never happening because our community can't handle it. I'd love to see my damage on PS4, but I know its never going to happen. It's more likely they'll find a way to break ACT to make the PC/PS4 players even than it is to see them implement a parser.

Also a lot of players typically play the game without going to different websites and stuff, so you'll need to do a lot legwork to get any kind of real data.

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Thank you for your feedback. ^^ As per my disclaimer in the OP, I do not believe that my survey will get enough traffic to yield largely representative results. But I am curious nonetheless in what sort of answers I will get. ^^

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Tanks learn how to hold aggro and mitigate because they have clear indicators of when they're doing well or poorly and can adjust their rotation accordingly. The same goes for healers.

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i can't agree with this, while yes we can kick bad healers and tanks, not being able to do your job at all isn't the same as having mediocre dps.

yes blizzard mages are bad but there is a difference between the worst and the average.

every role is held to higher standards by the player base than which is actually required, be it healer, tank or dps.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

every role is held to higher standards by the player base than which is actually required, be it healer, tank or dps.

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Sadly, that judgement will still happen, one way or another. :(

Again, I blame SE for this entirely. It's not the player's fault if the game fails in its role of teaching us to play our classes as we level.

I arrived at level 70 on my AST knowing exactly how to get the most out of the class.

I arrived at level 70 on my MCH understanding the basic rotation, but it took some external guides to figure out how to actually do decent DPS.

I took the Survey under the assumption that "Pro Parsing" means you would be okay FFXIV having an in-game parse and being open about it, no don't ask, don't tell.

I should have asked ahead of time... When you say Pro Parsing, Anti Parsing, what exactly do you mean by that? Does being Pro Parsing mean you are okay with any form of parsing in FFXIV (ACT, FFlogs, and an in-game parse).

I will just leave it here.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/3595673719

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753150702

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753235729

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753259732

After a thought and speaking with old buddies that came back to WoW, they all agree parsers in that game have ruined the experience they had and the community as well. Playerbase became EXTREME toxic after there were more advanced tools implemented into the addon, like comparing each player to the average top 10% players performance. That gave a birth to the toxicity and fuel it till this days.
New players dont have anything to look into the wacraft anymore, or they will get humiliated by entire teams.

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Originally Posted by Ashiee

I took the Survey under the assumption that "Pro Parsing" means you would be okay FFXIV having an in-game parse and being open about it, no don't ask, don't tell.

I should have asked ahead of time... When you say Pro Parsing, Anti Parsing, what exactly do you mean by that? Does being Pro Parsing mean you are okay with any form of parsing in FFXIV (ACT, FFlogs, and an in-game parse).

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Pro-parsing means you are okay with FFXIV having an in game parse that is officially supported.

It can also mean you use FFLogs, ACT, etc, but that's irrelevant. A PS4 player can't use any of those, but can still be a pro-parser. (I know they can get help from PC players blah blah but you get my point.)

Presumably if an official parser was added, people would stop using ACT, but realistically people would never stop using FFLogs.

Anti-parsing means to oppose an official parse, ACT, FFlogs, and the like. Just people who for some reason or another, dislike parsing or being parsed.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I will just leave it here.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/3595673719

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753150702

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753235729

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753259732

After a thought and speaking with old buddies that came back to WoW, they all agree parsers in that game have ruined the experience they had and the community as well. Playerbase became EXTREME toxic after there were more advanced tools implemented into the addon, like comparing each player to the average top 10% players performance. That gave a birth to the toxicity and fuel it till this days.
New players dont have anything to look into the wacraft anymore, or they will get humiliated by entire teams.

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I know people who said Raid Finder killed WoW since people stopped caring about others as individuals and only as bodies for content. It became too easy to replace and too easy to remove and find people. It depends who you ask.

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Originally Posted by Oscura

I know people who said Raid Finder killed WoW since people stopped caring about others as individuals and only as bodies for content. It became too easy to replace and too easy to remove and find people. It depends who you ask.

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Beat me to it. These threads have been around for a decade. The only thing that changes is the thing being complained about. WoW's been killed ten thousand times according to the WoW forms. It's not useful evidence of anything except the community's love of complaining.

I mean, people said the original DamageMeters killed WoW back in vanilla when suddenly the Hunters couldn't get away with AFKing for entire bosses anymore. I was not especially sad to lose those people as the healer who had to work extra hard to try and keep the raid alive longer because they wanted to be carried.

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Originally Posted by Oscura

I know people who said Raid Finder killed WoW since people stopped caring about others as individuals and only as bodies for content. It became too easy to replace and too easy to remove and find people. It depends who you ask.

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Still, immaturity shines on the blizzard forums, whenever someone is complaining about certain content in the game, he will be called for his parses being bad or not good enough, and by what they think not good enough is not being the part of the top 10% playerbase.
People in wow were complaining about pvp inbalances, about the content, and etc features which is not really the case of them being negative towards the game. The real reason why blizzard game shrinks is that the game became the contest of the numbers, whoever will do faster or better, everyone know after patch what to do at the right exact moment, what class has become instantly better or worse, nobody was taking into consideration the utility or aoe aspect or even fun aspects of certain classes, because the DPS and numbers were much more important, due to them being the main score players will be judged for by others. Pvp because of addons has been completely ruined, and people started to complain about new stuff coming when it didnt meet their arrogant expectations, since they are tryharding 99% their game to the unhealthy level, spreading their frustration over minority of the playerbase that dont use parsers at all. Parsers were at some point considered even by Blizzard as a way to cheat in the game, there were even addons that was indicating you what on whom and when press certain buttons.
Thats terryfing, the world of warcraft has become not a game anymore, but an exceel boxes simulator, people turn out to be like: "woho make sure you are increasing those sick numbers, so you could show em all how gut u are." - "Have you finished the certain activity? Bleh, that doesnt matter, your time socks, look at myyy numbeeers."
Everyone in the game focus on the game performance, than the game, fun and community itself, no wonder why the game losed over 1 mln subs last year.
I dont want it to happen in this game, and i am certainly sure Yoshi is aware of the same thing as well, not wanting to repeat exact same blizzard mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Ashiee

I took the Survey under the assumption that "Pro Parsing" means you would be okay FFXIV having an in-game parse and being open about it, no don't ask, don't tell.

I should have asked ahead of time... When you say Pro Parsing, Anti Parsing, what exactly do you mean by that? Does being Pro Parsing mean you are okay with any form of parsing in FFXIV (ACT, FFlogs, and an in-game parse).

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indifferent might of matched you better

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Originally Posted by Ashiee

I took the Survey under the assumption that "Pro Parsing" means you would be okay FFXIV having an in-game parse and being open about it, no don't ask, don't tell.

I should have asked ahead of time... When you say Pro Parsing, Anti Parsing, what exactly do you mean by that? Does being Pro Parsing mean you are okay with any form of parsing in FFXIV (ACT, FFlogs, and an in-game parse).

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No problem, I can clarify for you. ^^

When I say "pro-parser", I mean someone who supports the idea of parsing, be it self-parsing or parsing the group they are in. Generally, these individuals already use ACT/FFLogs, but not always. These people could also support the idea of having an in-game parser.

When I say "anti-parser", I mean someone who is the opposite. They do not like parsing, generally do not like ACT/FFLogs being used, and will probably not want to see an in-game parser implemented.

When I say "indifferent", I mean someone who generally has no opinion on parsing, or who does not care about the topic. They usually do not label themselves as "pro-" or "anti-parser". This is not to say they are "on the fence", although it could certainly be interpreted that way. It was more for people who do not care about parsers either way; I just did not want to use such a blunt "I do not care" wording and much preferred a "I have no opinion" wording. It sounded less...abrasive, I think is the word I'm looking for. ^^

When I say "unsure", I mean someone who has not yet formulated a stance on parsers, being for them, against them, or indifferent to them. This could stem from lack of exposure to them or lack of knowledge surrounding them (like, for example, a newer player who has never heard of ACT of FFLogs). In short, it's the "I don't know how I feel about them" option.

I hope that helped clear some things up. ^^

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

When I say "indifferent", I mean someone who generally has no opinion on parsing, or who does not care about the topic. They usually do not label themselves as "pro-" or "anti-parser". This is not to say they are "on the fence", although it could certainly be interpreted that way. It was more for people who do not care about parsers either way; I just did not want to use such a blunt "I do not care" wording and much preferred a "I have no opinion" wording. It sounded less...abrasive, I think is the word I'm looking for. ^^

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Opps I filled in the wrong one then >.<

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I will just leave it here.

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Are the add on that bad? Let me put an example here, putting add on is like adding tools in your hand. It's all up to the person how they use/handle one. Even if we did have a official parser, it wouldn't make the bad players suddenly good, they have to use the tool itself proppely to even get better. Second, an example before I started playing DRG a lot back in the days. I joined a farm group for turn 8 coil and the person in the group said; this DRG is very low on the damage, so I sat there and agreed, because I was dumb enough to join a group where I had no clue how to play DRG, no rotation or opener.
What did I do? I left the group and few days later started working on it. Too many players get ''humiliated/harrased'' by players because some simple don't do well enough. I'm well aware telling them they are trash over the line, but in so many examples (proofs too btw, if you ask I'll post over 15 screenshots where I kindly try to help and get harrased back, so this goes both way, so don't pretend it doesn't) Where I'm being polite and nice about it and they refuse to get good. Now imagine they do that in every group, they end up being the bad player and they tell others for being harrased.

Helping out, trying to make a player improve = harrased or you simply ''humiliated'' them. If you don't mind me asking, since parser does so much toxic attitudes etc, do you mind share the amount of screenshots of proof like I can where I get harrased for helping others, well trying? I'm only asking because it seems like you and some others here act like it happens on a daily basis.

Oh yes 1 more thing, if someone said I was bad, I would try to get better not ignore it. Ignoring it just ends you up being kicked from other groups because you aren't working well with the team. A parser wouldn't have people need to call you out for being bad dps, the parser itself will do that. I honestly think some people will be discouraged if they ended up seing how bad they are playing, of course without any knowledge, which many refuse to even get. Too many can't be bother being better but expect to be in groups where team effort is a thing. So they end up saying they got harrased.

Read the OP, but still don't get it.

There is a small number of people against parsing because 'it's not FF'. There is another small group that is against it because they don't want to have to put in any additional effort. There is a sizeable group that is concerned about it's abuse. The largest group is those in favor of it. Those concerned with abuse have valid arguments, but those aren't against parsing.

No one can comment while being indifferent. If they are indifferent, they don't parse. If they parsed, they would see what goes on and would in no way be against a tool that could alleviate such issues.

Parsing is one of the top two QoL changes requested, along with a Glamour overhaul, but it likely won't be added anytime soon. If they were to add it, they would have to eventually ban people that abused it enough times. The last thing SE wants to do is ban people. If SE had figures that the number of subs would skyrocket after adding parsing, they would add it without a second thought.

This is all common knowledge. No survey needed.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Please, if you have filled out this survey before, do not fill it out again. I am hoping to minimize the overlap from linking it both here and on FFXIV's subreddit.

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RIP the scientific method

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Read the OP, but still don't get it.

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I’m curious about the types of answers I would get out of it. Hence why I made it. It’s not made as a request to the developers to put a parser in the game or to not put it in the game, nor is it to try and prove any point. It’s just for my own curiosity. ^^

Nice survey even though I like parsers, it was part of the destruction in WoWs community along with other things but it played a part no matter what anyone says and unfortunately I can't agree to damage meters unless they are specifically personal and used to determine personal dps only.

people can keep their ACT and what not but I rather not see our casual community get stampeded they do make up the majority

So I will remain a weird middle person who loves parsers and raiding but cannot support it going "live" I guess you can say, even though it's already being used but in a more don't ask don't tell manner

Me too im curious about the answer of that poll,i must admit the OP did a great one that cover most of the deal about the parser,without turning some question bad or good.

For ,a Parser is needed as soon as people start doing extrem trial(even if not totaly needed for trial,but its a nice appetizer to see how we would perfom in savage), but for Savage,its a must you cant go doing savage,hit enrage and just start to wonder who is doing his job and who don't,and stop putting pressure on tank and healer and alwasy more DPS.

You're missing some things in the anti-parser section. You don't ask if they use parsers. It's possible to be against an official parser but still use them for yourself or for raid progress. I've used them and I hold the stance that SE shouldn't make an official version. By doing so, they would legitimize the behavior at the root of running a parser, that we all must play exactly the same way. A personal parser would also not head off toxicity. Then the bar would just be set at uploaded FFLogs. Players will always find a way to exclude others and it's in SE's best interest not to put their big rubber stamp that that sort of mentality is okay.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

You're missing some things in the anti-parser section. You don't ask if they use parsers. It's possible to be against an official parser but still use them for yourself or for raid progress. I've used them and I hold the stance that SE shouldn't make an official version. By doing so, they would legitimize the behavior at the root of running a parser, that we all must play exactly the same way. A personal parser would also not head off toxicity. Then the bar would just be set at uploaded FFLogs. Players will always find a way to exclude others and it's in SE's best interest not to put their big rubber stamp that that sort of mentality is okay.

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I did consider asking in the surveys (all the surveys include the same questions except for one opinionated one, because I wanted to see the response trends of those who consider themselves pro-parser versus anti-parser versus indifferent/unsure) if individuals actively used parsers, but I chose not to include it in the survey because it was more focusing just on the opinions of the participants, especially when it comes to harassment via parsers and if that affects they way they view them. It wasn’t really designed as a way to measure how many of the takers actively used parsers; more so just to see what they thought about them, and about the idea of an in-game parser. I also wanted to see if participants, for such a tool, would prefer group versus individual. Although, I do see where you are coming from when asking about if they actively use one, and if such usage affects their viewpoints. It’s something to consider if another survey like this chooses to come up again in the future.

My survey isn’t going to be used as some message to try and implement parsers into the game though. I was just genuinely curious about what people felt about them, and it’s much easier to look at survey results rather than wade through (sometimes particularly heated) forum discussions on the topic. ^^ Idle curiosity.

Ive filled out the suvery. :)

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

By doing so, they would legitimize the behavior at the root of running a parser, that we all must play exactly the same way. hm.

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I don't get this? Isn't part of a PVE boss drop the Hp down to zero? There is only 1 way to kill it no?

Responded to the survey, and like many others, I'm interested to see the results.

Done it - I'd have liked a small 'additional thoughts' box at the end so I could bash out a tiny paragraph of the reasons why some of my answers seemed a bit contradictory ...! But hey. Looking forward to the results. :D

I did your survey, decent to say the least.

I do however feel the reasons against are filled with far to many condemning theories.

I’m not sure if said parsers even consider the differences between jobs and how many different abilities they bring to the group.

Examples being Bard dps while adding buffs the entire fight. Where it is part of there rotation it also effects there ultimate dps output, as well as having all instant cast abilities over castable.
Red Mage’ often battle res in alliance raids or normal raids. This effects dps output.

I particularly see the utility in savage or U.S. raids but also see it as potentially problematic due to the elitist attitude (often not always) carried by said raiding community which can result in the abuse of said parsers and cause less players actively raiding in the “hardcore” category.