Get the mics warmed up - 2.0: you're going to need voice acting

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Investing money =/= investing the whole team -- You do have a budget for your game, this is why some smaller companies go bankrupt/close after their game is released whether it does good or bad, because once you're outta money, that's it lol.

SE is a business, they can't continually funnel money from other potential projects for one -- especially considering SE stated that XIV is self-funded, they already dumped over 16 months into the game without any profit, that's a lot of money already invested.

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voice acting = sells boxes = makes money, maybe not to FF purist, but for the majority or people.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Investing money =/= investing the whole team -- You do have a budget for your game, this is why some smaller companies go bankrupt/close after their game is released whether it does good or bad, because once you're outta money, that's it lol.

SE is a business, they can't continually funnel money from other potential projects for one -- especially considering SE stated that XIV is self-funded, they already dumped over 16 months into the game without any profit, that's a lot of money already invested.

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Yeah that's understandable, but it doesn't justify that the lack of content would be based on voice acting lol. I think voice acting would be great, even if it was mostly the main story and specific scenes. Especially since we only go through these missions once, unlike swtor.

I honestly think that since subs have started, Lindblum hasn't had that big of a hit. There are a ton of people in Ul'dah doing stuff, and everywhere's else. It'll take time to get that money back, but I don't think voice acting would be detrimental to content lol

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

voice acting = sells boxes = makes money, maybe not to FF purist, but for the majority or people.

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I'm quite sure people don't buy a video game because of voice acting. SWTOR is the exception because they had to resell KOTOR somehow.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I'm quite sure people don't buy a video game because of voice acting. SWTOR is the exception because they had to resell KOTOR somehow.

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is that why so many game marketers decide to write it on the box?

Voice acting doesn't make an MMO. You'll find this to be the case in the coming months with SWTOR crashes and burns like every single other 'WoW killer' before it.

Lets see...EQ2, Age of Conan, Rift, Aion, the list goes on and on.

At the end of the day, the voice acting and the graphics will get players, but it's gameplay that will keep the players. 100 million spend on voice acting can be spent far more wisely on other things that will make the game more fun.

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Originally Posted by auritribe

Voice acting doesn't make an MMO. You'll find this to be the case in the coming months with SWTOR crashes and burns like every single other 'WoW killer' before it.

Lets see...EQ2, Age of Conan, Rift, Aion, the list goes on and on.

At the end of the day, the voice acting and the graphics will get players, but it's gameplay that will keep the players. 100 million spend on voice acting can be spent far more wisely on other things that will make the game more fun.

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exactly, "will get players", you can not keep players in game unless you get them first.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

is that why so many game marketers decide to write it on the box?

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I remember buying DRIVER 2 many moons ago that mentions on foot missions, yet I bet no one bought the game because of that but rather because DRIVER 1 was so amazing they were craving a Driver 2. The back of the box/case is almost always just listing features, not the selling point.

I agree though, no one buys a video game for voice acting, they buy a video game for gameplay. Why get a video game when you can buy a DVD/Netflix and have all the voice acting you want for 70-200+ minutes?

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

SW is also 100% voice over. i think people mainly just want the CS voiced over and pretty much everyone watches the CS's

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Definitely. Not just any run on the mill quest cs though. Those that only cut to the character saying a few lines and send you off your way can stay text. More elaborate CS from quest, GC, and main storyline will definitely have a nice touch with VA's. I feel more attached to characters with matching voices :3

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

exactly, "will get players", you can not keep players in game unless you get them first.

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Yup and in SWTOR's case, the gameplay is really fun. It's funny to go into a cutscene and listen to your friends responses if they get the highest roll of the dice. I doubt he's played swtor to begin with.

I don't like reading long walls of text, and when an NPC reads it out for me.. it just makes everything better. You can still read it if you don't want to hear it...

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

exactly, "will get players", you can not keep players in game unless you get them first.

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First Case Scenario:
Don't have Voice Acting, keep 5'000 players playing your game because they're having fun.

Second Case Scenario:
Have Voice Acting, get 40'000 players and keep 5'000 because the other 35'000 grew boring of the game.

Believe me, Voice Acting Gets the people, but what you're aiming for at the first time is to actually do something that Keeps the people playing the game. Once you get that you can make Voice Acting =)

SWTOR has done a good job on balancing these two. I'm not playing though because trying it is not my MMO, but that's really another story.

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Originally Posted by Renshi

First Case Scenario:
Don't have Voice Acting, keep 5'000 players playing your game because they're having fun.

Second Case Scenario:
Have Voice Acting, get 40'000 players and keep 5'000 because the other 35'000 grew boring of the game.

Believe me, Voice Acting Gets the people, but what you're aiming for at the first time is to actually do something that Keeps the people playing the game. Once you get that you can make Voice Acting =)

SWTOR has done a good job on balancing these two. I'm not playing though because trying it is not my MMO, but that's really another story.

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why are you assuming that voice acting mean they wont be able to add anything else to the game?

3rd case
have voice acting people enjoy the cut scene inbetween enjoying all the content that will be available at relaunch.


why would you add the VA after people did the quest?

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

teh voice acting was a big promotional push for SW. if they want to have it on the 2.0 box and/or promote with it it need to be in game at launch.

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How can it be a promo push to say "hey, look, we're doing the same thing the competition is doing!"?

They need to advertise what makes the game unique. No one's going to care how much you clone something when the original is readily available. You need to show off why you're different and better.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

How can it be a promo push to say "hey, look, we're doing the same thing the compotition is doing!"?

They need to advertise what makes the game unique. No one's going to care how much you clone something when the orriginal is readily avalable. You need to show off why you're diffirent and better.

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it looks alot better to say you have something that a record breaking game has then to say you don't. i dont think their promo will say"we got stuff just like SW does" they will surly do a better job then that.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

it looks alot better to say you have something that a record breaking game has then to say you don't. i dont think their promo will say"we got stuff just like SW does" they will surly do a better job then that.

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This is why WoW clones work and why people always expect WoW clones. It worked for Rift and it's working for WoW+KOTOR hybrid.

Maybe XIV can do something different and offer something unique from each other like how MMORPGs used to be?

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

why are you assuming that voice acting mean they wont be able to add anything else to the game?

3rd case
have voice acting people enjoy the cut scene inbetween enjoying all the content that will be available at relaunch.


why would you add the VA after people did the quest?

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No, no, no!
In the game development Voice Acting should be something to do at last, checking your budget and things, but mainly focusing on the gameplay.
I'm not saying that Voice Acting will not give the game anything, I'm just saying to focus on the mechanics of the game, and then think about VA, if there's place for it and if the budget can permit it.
I'd like to play a game that's both Fun and with an entertaining VA, but I can't play a game which is very good at VA but sucks on gameplay.

Got my point? I would focus on something that keeps the players first, rather than on something that gets the players. More like building a house starting from the structure and not from the furniture.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

why are you assuming that voice acting mean they wont be able to add anything else to the game?

3rd case
have voice acting people enjoy the cut scene inbetween enjoying all the content that will be available at relaunch.


why would you add the VA after people did the quest?

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I think a misconception we have, myself included, is we'd like to think we know SE work with their budget and how the XIV team work. I would think this isn't a one man show so we shouldn't go with the logic if X time goes into VA's that means X time is taken away from game development when the opposite is probably true. The sound team probably needs something to do with the allowed budget they have currently. Would it be better if the sound team get moved to another game and they use that budget to hire new intern for coffees? :P Of course this is still an assumption of mine as well.

Point is we do not know how their budget work nor should we want to know. If they plan on adding it we should give them the benefit of the doubt that their budget meets what it requires. Let's not jump to the conclusion that adding X feature will have detriment to Y feature. Until there is absolute proof at least :P

Of course SWTOR/Skyrim style of VA's is a bit too excessive, imo, and I don't think they're doing that anyways. They mentioned that in "important" events/cs VA's should be there.

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Originally Posted by Renshi

No, no, no!
In the game development Voice Acting should be something to do at last, checking your budget and things, but mainly focusing on the gameplay.
I'm not saying that Voice Acting will not give the game anything, I'm just saying to focus on the mechanics of the game, and then think about VA, if there's place for it and if the budget can permit it.
I'd like to play a game that's both Fun and with an entertaining VA, but I can't play a game which is very good at VA but sucks on gameplay.

Got my point? I would focus on something that keeps the players first, rather than on something that gets the players. More like building a house starting from the structure and not from the furniture.

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They may be at a stage in dev now that they have calculated cost and decided VZ is an acceptable expenditure.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

omg the mrd quest i had a terrible time reading,lol

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This I can agree with but mostly because it's just plain bad writing.
You can tell the writers are scraping the bottom of the barrel when every second word is either shit or arse. :(

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Originally Posted by Seif

This I can agree with but mostly because it's just plain bad writing.
You can tell the writers are scraping the bottom of the barrel when every second word is either shit or arse. :(

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Or because Marauder is synonymous with Pirates in this world.

Hi All,

There are definitely pros and cons to all sides presented in this thread.

On a high level, I would disagree that the current voice acting was great (for Gridania's opening movie - the English Dub voice acting was laughable and amateurish at best). :(

Bad or mediocre Voice Acting can ruin an otherwise great moment that has spectacular Camera Work and key Plot / Story Points. (e.g., English Dub of Vanille in Final Fantasy XIII (yikes!).)

But spectacular Voice Acting can really elevate major story elements and add gravitas and emotional attachment when done right (see, Nolan North (Nathan Drake (UNCHARTED 2, 3), Sir Ian McKellen (Gandalf (THE LORD OF THE RINGS (Movies)).

Personally, I'd love to see an Audio Language Option like with Anime (Original Japanese with English Subtitles, or English Dub).

Another key point people bring up is that "yes" currently, the walls of text on some of these quests are pushing some players to just hit "X / Enter" and skip through all of it as fast as possible... that's another problem.

If Square took the time to create a Cinematic Camera System (driven programmatically), or just took the time to add custom Cameras to key Quests, that would probably add to the interest level and call attention to the fact that there's more going on that might warrant you (the player) to not just hit "X" and skip everything.

I love RPGs and enjoy good stories, and good writing, but even for me, currently most quests feel more like tasks and FedEx / Fetch Quests and it makes me inadvertently want to just mash the Enter key to skip through at times.

I think for a new player (for 2.0 and PS3 Launch), by making sure there are enough elements to entice and hold a player's attention, it could establish a better "culture" and appreciation of the importance of Quests and Sub-Missions. This can be done with things suggested in this thread like great custom Cameras, custom Music, and full, *great quality* Voice Acting.

If a new player starting the game encountered their Main Missions and even starter Quests around Gridania, LL, and Uldah to be full of interesting writing, story elements, good camera work and great voice acting, I think it would certainly be a benefit to the game experience overall.

As to whether all that work and money (affecting the overall budget) would be better spent elsewhere is something that can be argued forever. There will always be people who enjoy gameplay more than anything and could care less about Story and Cutscenes (I know people who skip every single Cutscene in *any* game they play). And there will always be people who care deeply about the Story and want to bask and enjoy well made Cinematics in their RPGs and MMORPGs.

Is full voice acting a big seller for a video game? Idk. And I don't think I could find a reliable source to say it is.

Would someone rather play a full voice acting game over one without, if the two games were equal in every other aspect? Yes.

Game needs voice acting. It hurts no one. reading does hurt a lot of people. because no one reads it. More people wil listen to the story then read.

Voices yes please

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Originally Posted by SniperRifle

Is full voice acting a big seller for a video game? Idk. And I don't think I could find a reliable source to say it is.

Would someone rather play a full voice acting game over one without, if the two games were equal in every other aspect? Yes.

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SW broke several records including the record for most VA in a video game and most copys sold by EA for a game. it also now has over 2mil subs. So maybe people didn't buy it for the voice acting, but it sure didnt hurt it.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

The dialogue in this game is so cleverly translated into English

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wut world is this? SE translations to english have always been second rate at best and an afterthought at worst.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

it looks alot better to say you have something that a record breaking game has then to say you don't.

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That's why you don't mention what you don't have.

PLEASE HAVE VOICE ACTING ON MAJOR QUESTS!

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Originally Posted by TheRac25

wut world is this? SE translations to english have always been second rate at best and an afterthought at worst.

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a different world than yours buddy

The opening Cutscene was the shit, hearing everyone talk, it felt really lively. this last year has been nothing but blah blah blah wall O' text.

Voice acting... Yes, please. If people want to skip it after the first time that's their decision but I know I would love to say "Hold on I'm in a bad ass cutscene you just skipped."

I like voice acting in storyline type events but probably don't care for it for everything.

Reading off the wall-o-text for every little sidequest would make me unhappy...

Voice acting for main story quests would be nice. It is completely un-necessary for side quests and everything else though. Kind of how it looks like they were trying to do from the get go, then seemingly gave up on it....

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Originally Posted by Madruk

A good game puts you into the middle of the story with all the action involved, not sitting there listening to someone drone on.

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You bring up a good point. Voice acted dialogue does not equal lengthy cutscenes. I am in favor of lengthy cutscenes, and social lengthy cutscenes like in SWTOR, but Blizzard takes a different approach, making voice acting part of the gameplay experience while still giving you freedom of movement. Square-Enix can choose from among the different approaches, but they need to add more voice acting regardless of which path they choose.

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Originally Posted by Req

Most people I know play with the game muted anyways, would be a waste of resources as far as I am concerned.

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So far as you are concerned music is also a waste of resources, yet if the game was sold to you without any sound at all wouldn't you feel like it wasn't worth the purchase price?

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Actually hearing her beg for her life made the quest difficult to complete, whereas if it had merely been text it wouldn't have stirred such an emotional response.

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It's true, there is a surprising emotional investment in the quests and decisions in SWTOR because of the voice acting. I think it's a very surprising and welcome development to MMO gaming, and one that shouldn't be left out of FFXIV's future.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

... or not spend it at all to help ensure the game's future.

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The only way out of this hole is for SE to open up the wallet. They ****ed themselves hard already by years of incompetence and now they're paying for it quite literally. And if they want the kind of money this business can provide, they're going to have to pay a lot more than they already have.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

^ FF XI cutscenes were fine yes, but you are talking about a 10 year old game.

FF VII was fine for its time also but does that mean that FF XIII-2 should also only have text boxes for dialog scenes ?

I think Neptune's point is that voice acting in MMO's is starting to become standard so shouldn't SE also go this route if they want to appear like a current generation game.

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That's right, it is starting to become a standard. Does anyone think Blizzard's next game is simply going to throw around the quest text boxes of World of Warcraft? I don't think so. FFXIV is quickly aging in a changing field of other games. It is only going to seem even more dated at the 2.0 relaunch. It's not going to be good enough to be the game it should have been in 2010 once 2013 hits.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

PROS

• Adds new dimensions to characters
• Brings the game to life with more vivid storytelling
• Characters become more memorable

CONS

• If done tacky, it can make the game come across as very unnapealing/childish.
• Voice acting can really ruin characters. EG: Seymour/Rikku FFX and Vanille from FFXIII
• Substantial increases in file sizes (Although i guess its not such a big deal in todays world)

In my opinion, the english voice acting from Japanese Game Developers is normally more comical than anything else. (Although i did enjoy FFX's)

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The voice talent procured for FFXIV is outstanding though.

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Originally Posted by AmandaHuggenkiss

Personally I could care less about voice acting.
What I want are raids, mega monsters and stuff that is hard!
I want something to come out that take us a month to figure out how to kill.

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If you want raids, mega monsters, and stuff that is hard you should want voice acting. Because attracting the kind of masses of people that will pay subscriptions to FFXIV ensures a big, quality dev team that can build the kind of content you want. I know it may seem counter-intuitive, but if what you want is a small, sh*tty team that can barely push out 2 level 50 dungeons a year (does that seem familiar to anyone? lol) then you are on the right track by not requesting the kind of production value brought to the table by voice acting.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

This, I think for some having to read all that text can be a bit of a hassle, especially if its pirate speak.

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What a great point. The pirate speak in this game is so amazing. (thanks fernehalwes & crew again). To hear it fully voiced would be a treat unlike any other.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

If they want something cooler, we could speak the auto-translates...this does would not only be cool but also useful since you wouldn't need to read the log to know someone said something...and this also would stimulate the natural usage of auto-translate.

Instead of putting effort on CSs, if i was SE i'd make a sticky here asking players to post the 5 phrases they miss the most at auto-translate, add the most common ones and make all auto-translates spoken. This would take the different languages player interaction to another level.

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Off-topic, this is a really cool suggestion buried in your post. Imagine if you could select a "voice" from among several auto-translate voices, to be displayed to Japanese, French, and German players when you auto-translated in voice chat. Or imagine if you doing a mission in La Noscea, and heard your French Miqo'te teammate say in a French Accent, "Attack this one first!". Would be very cool. Needs it's own discussion thread really.

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Originally Posted by Renshi

Though, if there was any voice acting I'd like to see in game, is a Xenoblade Chronicles style of interaction with NPCs. (especially the old man of the gem crafting in japanese, if anybody played it =D)

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Renshi you are misbehaving! You know the dev team needs to focus on making a great game and voice acting BOTH at the same time. Also, I did play Xenoblade (still playing). What did the old gem crafting man say in the Japanese version? :O

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

SE is a business, they can't continually funnel money from other potential projects for one -- especially considering SE stated that XIV is self-funded, they already dumped over 16 months into the game without any profit, that's a lot of money already invested.

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Actually they can funnel money from other completed projects into FFXIV, which is what they have been and will continue to be doing. They have a large war chest and it's time it was put to good use. They can't expect millions of copies of a game to be sold if they put something out through text boxes. Would FFXIII have sold so many copies if it was text-based? Yeah right. Also don't forget FFXIV did turn revenue, $40 million already not counting whatever hundred thousand they made this month off of people like you. lol

I dunno if an old man going like "HARMMMMNNNN!!" is Voice Acting, but still... It makes me laugh each time I hear it =D
Lemme check if I can find a link, I'll link it in this post...

I'm uploading it rite now, hold your seat tight =)

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Originally Posted by Seif

This I can agree with but mostly because it's just plain bad writing.
You can tell the writers are scraping the bottom of the barrel when every second word is either shit or arse. :(

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Or because Marauder is synonymous with Pirates in this world.

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That's right, they're just being creative. I think it's really hilarious. They succeeded in creating a really great atmosphere of the pirates and what they care about. You don't see it everywhere, for instance in the regality of the Gridanian dialogue. That should clue you in to their level of talent, which is arguably the best in the field right now.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

On a high level, I would disagree that the current voice acting was great (for Gridania's opening movie - the English Dub voice acting was laughable and amateurish at best). :(

Bad or mediocre Voice Acting can ruin an otherwise great moment that has spectacular Camera Work and key Plot / Story Points. (e.g., English Dub of Vanille in Final Fantasy XIII (yikes!).)

But spectacular Voice Acting can really elevate major story elements and add gravitas and emotional attachment when done right (see, Nolan North (Nathan Drake (UNCHARTED 2, 3), Sir Ian McKellen (Gandalf (THE LORD OF THE RINGS (Movies)).

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Great post kiara, especially about the camera angles and ideas for making voice acting more accessible to everyone. The dev team should take notice.

It's important to distinguish good voice talent and good voice directing/work from voice actors you like. For instance, Papalymo's voice is very high pitched, British, and comical-sounding, but it's not amateurish. The voice recordings are fully inflected and consistent, which is an indication of solid voice directing and a solid performance by solid talent. Just because you don't like the sound of it doesn't make it bad, it just means you don't like it. You have to learn to see what's there. I appreciate all of the voice acting in FFXIV because I'm not so hung up on likes and dislikes. To be sure, there is such a thing as amateurish voice recordings. If you listen to WoW's voice acting, most of the time it sounds like a random member of the dev team recording an on-the-fly voice over, not the work of professionals that is well executed. So there is a difference, but I challenge you to point out voice work in FFXIV that is truly amateurish or bad on a technical level.

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Originally Posted by DNO

Game needs voice acting. It hurts no one. reading does hurt a lot of people. because no one reads it. More people wil listen to the story then read.

Voices yes please

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Haha, I love the simplicity of your post.

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Originally Posted by TheRac25

wut world is this? SE translations to english have always been second rate at best and an afterthought at worst.

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You don't give enough credit to the talent that has been lined up for this game. You should visit the localization forum and take a look around. I'd like to share this post with you that clears up some misconceptions about the localization of FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

Hey everybody.

It's great to see the the localization (localisation!) forum heat up again. Having the opportunity to communicate with you guys is one of the best parts of my job (the paycheck and the free cookies being the other two ;)).

I'm going to avoid the topic of which name is better: "Maelstrom" or "Black Vortex Group" or "Stygian Swirl Sentries" or "Ebon Eddy Elite," just as I'm going to avoid the topic of which is a better translation/localization policy: stick to the JP or localize for maximum "kick-arseness." Everyone has their preferences, and I'm not one to say A is better than B or B is better than A. There is nothing I, or my colleagues, wouldn't give to have 100% of our users say "Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude! Maelstrom RULES!" but we know that's nigh on impossible.

That said, the issue of loosely translated terms does rear its head every once and a while, so I'd like to toss out a bit of background info on how the naming process is handled here at Square Enix headquarters. Unlike a lot of games by Japanese developers which are translated after the game (or at least the text) is finished, the LOC team here works with the world planners during the early stages of lore creation. This, in effect, makes the naming of everything from NPCs and monsters, to locations and organizations, a joint effort. Once a concept is conceived and a bit of background info is created, name suggestions from both the planners and the LOC team begin pouring in. Usually one side will start off with a bunch of ideas, and then the other side will counter with their own. After a few back-and-forths, we usually arrive at something that we believe sounds good in both our languages, while remaining faithful to that original concept.

Because of this, you'll find the development side translating terms originating in EN back into JP almost just as often as you'll find the LOC team translating into EN terms that originated in JP. An example of this is the Grand Company Names--both the Maelstrom and the Order of the Twin Adder actually originated in EN and were translated into JP, while the Immortal Flames was taken from a Japanese word (不滅隊) that the lore-masters was quite smitten with.

Well then, where in the seven hells did "black" in come from!!!!!!?

I seem to recall that the kanji for "Black" was added to the JP Maelstrom translation to keep the three-kanji symmetry that the other two Grand Company names possessed. Another reason "black" was chosen was because of its use in the word 黒潮 (kuroshio), the powerful "black tide" current that swirls about Japan. So, in this case, "black" would mean "powerful," -> "powerful whirlpool" -> "maelstrom" -> localization GOLD.

I hope this helps to clear up some things.
Talk to you all again soon!

(Wow, these are starting to get as long as Yoshi-P posts... I hope he doesn't think I'm trying to steal his thunder...)

FUN FACT
Some other in-game terms that originated in EN: The Black Shroud ;) / The Mizzenmast Inn / Maidenmere / Immodest Mouse

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Lamar Burton imo.

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Originally Posted by Renshi

I dunno if an old man going like "HARMMMMNNNN!!" is Voice Acting, but still... It makes me laugh each time I hear it =D
Lemme check if I can find a link, I'll link it in this post...

I'm uploading it rite now, hold your seat tight =)

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lol good. i can't wait. :D

Ok, here you go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxPk1Srm1Bw

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Originally Posted by Renshi

Ok, here you go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxPk1Srm1Bw

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lol. that is so funny. what is that sound all about! on another note, i <3 xenoblade

I dont care about voice acting in a MMORPG. I learned reading in school.

All the cries for voice "acting," so frequent nowadays, seem to me to be pure and unabated SW;tOR envy. However, I find the voice acting in that game to be mostly dreadful... almost embarrassing at moments. But even when it's done well, for this sort of game, voice acting is basically fluff. Let's stick to the essentials and don't burden my HDD with unnecessary material, especially if the astronomical amount of time and resources needed to deploy it consumes prime (and badly needed) budget and timeline assets.

I find the type of live interaction SE has decided to pursue, with GMs often impersonating NPCs, much more innovative, unique and groundbreaking than the stale mimicry that passes for acting in games these days. And yes, I'm including in this assessment some of the familiar voices we luckily hear infrequently in American localizations of this and other FF games.

R

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Originally Posted by Renshi

Ok, here you go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxPk1Srm1Bw

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Great example, much like Fus Ro Dah started its own meme.

People can google image "Time is money friend!" and get a picture of a Troll from WoW, or even "For the Horde!". Who hasn't heard that before?

It's something so simple and it goes light years further.

Check out all the TOR envy up in my post.:confused: