don't vent because of poor play teach them a proper rotation.

Do y’all ask if someone wants help first?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Do y’all ask if someone wants help first?

---

I used to but with as many silent players as there are out there it seems pointless. Plus then I'm delaying an already slow dungeon for what amounts to a pointless exchange. Either they want help and will take it when it's given to them or they don't and they're going to keep playing poorly anyways.

If they're the latter I don't really mind if my suggestions on how they can better themselves and help the group happen to offend them since they're already kinda crappy people.

9/10 times when you ask someone if they want help with their rotation or attempt to give objectively correct advice they snap at you and act offended. Its why people don't even try giving advice anymore. At best the group stays silent and lets it slide, at worst they kick the guy without even explaining why and they never learn. Even if you told them they might not change. I'm talking simple stuff like tank cooldowns, using AoE on packs of enemies, and not spamming Freeze as a BLM. You shouldn't have to teach people common sense but here we are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Do y’all ask if someone wants help first?

---

Why should I? Because it might hurt their feelings to be told by a more experienced player their rotation is a hindrance to the group? How about they show some humility and thank the person for taking time to offer advice so everyone benefits? Guess we can't risk fragmenting their safe space.

And before anyone jumps, this assumes the advice offered was polite and not antagonistic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And before anyone jumps, this assumes the advice offered was polite and not antagonistic.

---

"Hey BLM, try using Blizzard III and Fire III to swap instead of Transpose. It lets you go back to fire much faster and feels smoother."

"Yo screw off I'll play how I want don't baby me I know what I'm doing."

This is the general reaction I get when I mention it. All the back to when I started in ARR. Being a lover of BLM stinks when people don't play it right and refuse to listen to honest advice that, personally, makes the job actually feel correct.

Generally the best experiences I've had with duty finder is when no one talks to anyone else until the end.

GG

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Do y’all ask if someone wants help first?

---

If they're inconveniencing other people then it should not matter whether or not they want help and advice. If they want to go and do their own thing and never have to deal with any feedback whatsoever then they can stick to single player games or focus purely on solo content. The moment they sign up for group content they open themselves up to criticism. It should be constructive, mind you, though they should not get a free pass if they're leading to other people's precious time being wasted. Alas, unfortunately it has become very common in the present day for people to adapt the idea that they can do whatever they want, however they want and that anyone who tries to step in and offer advice is some sort of horrible elitist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thoosa

I joined a practice group for os1 savage and people were getting upset that it wasn’t cleared in the first try! People started leaving and complaining that they hadn’t watched a video and yes, watching a video can help but you don’t learn unless you play and practice :P

---

This is exactly what I am talking about join a practice group and they don't practice they want excellence .... and yes my dear on the job training is the best teacher ....

I can agree with the sentiment behind this, but as others have pointed out, you need to be dealing with new players who are receptive to advice and criticism. A lot of the time, I will give someone advice, and you will either be greeted with silence or "you're not my dad!" Granted, many do listen. Also, it should go without saying that people should not attempt harder content before at least getting a basic understanding of their job and the encounter, rather than wasting everyone's time.

I don't think anyone's under an obligation to help newer players. It would be nice if mentors did so, and if people actually listened, but it's at best a courtesy to ensure a smoother run. As for those who choose to pull and ignore "I'm new!" comments, who then go on to whine about how bad everyone is, that's just dumb. Same with people joining practice runs and demanding first time excellence - they're the mirror of the clueless joining savage/extreme content without research. People who ignore my advice, weigh down on the party's performance and who are easily replaceable, I will generally initiate a kick request upon. But this can include the less easily replaceable too if they don't make it work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lilseph

And toxic. Don't forget toxic.

EDIT: You realistically can't teach them a rotation in the middle of a dungeon. Just ask them to look it up in forums/Reddit. Most of the time they will either ignore you or give you a snarky come back "I do what I want" style. Some people would listen, but the improvement won't happen during my run but after it. We have no obligation to teach either, it's the player responsability to improve themselves. I don't wear a crown or became a mentor myself because I'm not interested on teaching. However, I do have the right to vent if something doesn't meet my expectations and goes horribly wrong.

---

yes you can. when I first played a hard dungeon with my pld i was told how to keep agro and I did exactly what they told me to do and received all three commendations at completion.

Ok.

>Follows the advice in the thread, trying to explain to someone in a nice way how to do their rotation and why it is effective
>Either got cussed out, told to shut up, received the meme response "You don't pay my sub!", and/or got kicked from the dungeon because the person is overly defensive and refuses to admit they did anything wrong

nvm I'm gonna go back to complaining.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neri

Yes, I agree. And don’t quit dungeon just because you hate the dungeon too, it inconvenients the other party members.

---

I write this answer, after reading this, without having read anything after it in the thread, just to say this:

#BURN


I tip my hat off to you sir/ ma'am.

This whole thread is rich coming from a "mentor" who is universally hated on their NN and clearly has never tried giving out advice. But hey, you do you Diamond.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Why should I?

---

So you can save yourself the effort of writing more than one short question.

If they don't want your advice, they are going to ignore it either way and you're just wasting your time typing anything more. The only time you achieve anything is if they are receptive to advice. The question thus allows you to check whether you'll be wasting your time trying to give them advice or not.
That might not be relevant to you because you don't care whether you are wasting your time or not, but it's more efficient to ask in advance. The fact that it looks more considerate to the other person is a bonus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxlStream

This whole thread is rich coming from a "mentor" who is universally hated on their NN and clearly has never tried giving out advice. But hey, you do you Diamond.

---

Do I give out advice? sure if it is a class I have mastered. I am not universally hated. Yes, I am rich. loved, and a good mentor in my eyes because others eyes are blinded to reality, such as yours but it is OK I will pray that you receive a miracle in this new year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiamondOrion

Do I give out advice? sure if it is a class I have mastered. I am not universally hated. Yes, I am rich. loved, and a good mentor in my eyes because others eyes are blinded to reality, such as yours but it is OK I will pray that you receive a miracle in this new year.

---

Ok... lets see here...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiamondOrion

Hi, I was looking to do my leveling roulette and was looking forward to what it would give me until I spawned into the Aurum Vale. I didn't even think twice and quickly left after telling the group and I quote, "Ughh Aurum Vale no way."

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiamondOrion

Potd gives ----->You gain 583200 (+50%) gladiator experience points. and still the best resource to gain exp after 60. This is because the runs are easy and less stress than traditional dungeon. The music is great and teams vary in their differences and styles and you get to meet more people than in any other venue. When your roulette's, weeklies and dailies are done play Potd for exp :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiamondOrion

I have heard a lot of times on the novice network that POTD isn't good for understanding the true nature your class and powers. I beg to differ, I have a level 30 PLD and my POTD gear is 99,99 so I decided to do the highest level of the POTD and see what the level 60 powers are. It is safe to use them at POTD because there is no streeful situations to be worried about and this kind of practice is more fun than beating up a practice dummy. I have said this on the novice network only to be shunned and told i'm wrong.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiamondOrion

I agree with this guy .... I try to dps .. but who cares if the group fails so-be-it I'm not stressing it ...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiamondOrion

I have a friend and she and I developed a great relationship, When I was down she would log in and say the most insane funny things not knowing i was having a bad day. She was an Au Ra and changed into a Hyur Highlander. I asked her why she changed and she said she wanted a bigger chest. She is the same person but I cannot look at her the same way I use too. It is more than the personality it was the way she pouted and slanted her head her looks played a great deal in her personality but now she's different. If you plan on changing your looks please tell the the people who are close to you so that the shock doesn't ruin a fun relationship.

---

Need I continue?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Settiesama

Need I continue?

---

I think this whole thing was made because of my thread. I think they wanted some super irritated reaction from me.

If so this is super tame compared to when I do try to give advice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jijifli

I think this whole thing was made because of my thread. I think they wanted some super irritated reaction from me.

---

Wouldn't surprise me, he has a habit of posting threads like this to bait authors of other ones very similar/related.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Settiesama

Wouldn't surprise me, he has a habit of posting threads like this to bait authors of other ones very similar/related.

---

I don't think people should be making fun of other's failures I think you should try to help rather then put down players. My advice is better because it is for the long term good of this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiamondOrion

I don't think people should be making fun of other's failures I think you should try to help rather then put down players. My advice is better because it is for the long term good of this game.

---

Telling people to go into PoTD instead of dungeons and to leave when Aurum Vale is picked for roulettes.. Telling people not to do what they want without consulting other people who don't matter in said decision is for the long term good of the game? Saying it's ok to fail runs as long as you don't get yourself stressed doing the absolute basics? You aren't helping, you're trying to cause more damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Settiesama

Telling people to go into PoTD instead of dungeons and to leave when Aurum Vale is picked for roulettes.. Telling people not to do what they want without consulting other people who don't matter in said decision is for the long term good of the game? Saying it's ok to fail runs as long as you don't get yourself stressed doing the absolute basics? You aren't helping, you're trying to cause more damage.

---

It's b8 m8

Don't have to bite it for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jijifli

It's b8 m8

Don't have to bite it for me.

---

But it tastes so good.

Not everybody wants to listen.They take it as an insult and get offended and can come back with insults.I swear I like talking to my cat better than talking to humans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Some of us do try to help. And then we get called an elitist. Then, when we stop helping because we get tired of being called an elitist, we are called an elitist again. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

---

Exactly this.

When I started playing the game, I was a gladiator. I got to my first dungeon and had no idea how dungeons even worked yet or how to properly get and hold agro. I told the group I was new to the game and had no idea what I was doing. They took the time to explain the basic mechanics and give me tips as we went on. No one was angry, or forceful. Everyone seemed happy to help and I was grateful for it.

Granted, this is Sastasha (normal) so things are different in this scenario but it should apply to anything really. A poor player needs to accept tips on how to improve and vets should be able to provide that help without being yelled at just for doing it. (Unless they are being rude of course)

I became a mentor because I wanted to help the newer players. I've had some enjoyable times when I ran mentor roulette and ended up in a place with new people to the run and I had to explain the fight/dungeon mechanics while everyone listened and followed instructions. I generally like doing that kind of thing. Often enough in a typical dungeon though I'm afraid to point out times where I can plainly see someone is playing poorly because of the reasons described in this topic.

I’m not sure if I’d make a good mentor or not, because if I compare myself to my fc members, they have way more experience than me and seem to know everything about every role and are excellent at helping people, and I’ve only got a few to 70.

Sometimes text is quite a difficult way of helping and people read it in different ways (emotionally) and sometimes take things the wrong way when you mean exactly the opposite. Also some people can never admit to making any mistake at any point and react defensively when called out on it, I guess many of us have done it at some point in life. :P

Also don't forget to stop spreading misinformation to novices.


And spoiling the msq for them.


And not get mad at people for using a fantasia


I feel like there was more but I forgot. Hmmm....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Also don't forget to stop spreading misinformation to novices.


And spoiling the msq for them.


And not get mad at people for using a fantasia


I feel like there was more but I forgot. Hmmm....

---

Telling people it's ok to fail the group so long as you don't get stressed out doing what is basic of your job.

Edit: Oh, and if you're a tank, make sure to pull the mobs out of your party members ground AoEs, and also if you get Aurum Vale or any dungeon you don't like, make sure to leave your team in the lurch.

When you're level 50 and as a blm are single targeting during a 12 mob pull, you clearly don't have a clue about your job and didn't read your tooltips (if jump potion). This actually happened to me TODAY.

I don't have time to teach you how to play your job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

When you're level 50 and as a blm are single targeting during a 12 mob pull, you clearly don't have a clue about your job and didn't read your tooltips (if jump potion). This actually happened to me TODAY.

I don't have time to teach you how to play your job.

---

Then you are part of the problem lol sorry but not sorry, if someone isn't doing it right then tell them how it should be done in a non snarky way, if they give you the "you don't pay my sub" banter then yes let them be at that point but as vets we should always have time to teach or guess what this community will continue to be crap.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiamondOrion

I don't think

---

Therein lies the problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxlStream

You're good at the game? You're an elitist.
You're using a parser to better yourself? Elitist.
You're making suggestions on how someone can improve themselves? E l i t i s t.

You wipe a farm party constantly but you're having fun playing your way. Nah you're fine dude.

This community astounds me at times.

---

Me <3 you long time.

Said bad players have several options;

Google
Youtube
Reading their spells + Common sense.

If after all that, they can't seem to be performing well...

Then you can't fix stupid and move on.

I agree with you on helping teach others as far as the basics of a proper rotation goes. The strange attack patterns and "rotations" I've seen from other party members have astoundingly went up since Stormblood's release.

The problem is people don't take initiatives to read up guides or desire to improve like you do.

You can refer players to reputable guide providers like MTQCapture, MrHappy, Xenosys Vex, Graehl, or some detailed written/video guide that literally spills the secrets on how fights work move by move, phase by phase. The issue is that the people who could use the battle hints still don't want to spoil or improve their knowledge of the higher-end battles.

You can provide links to the best linkshells, free companies, discords, or other forms of voice chat to communicate, teach, socialize, and/or share new stuff that could help improve gameplay. The problem is that some of people who probably could use those mediums to improve simply do not care at the end of the day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

You can refer players to "reputable" guide providers like MrHappy

---

Never send anyone to MrHappy unless you can't stand their guts.

My Happy may not have the most ideal guides ever, but he does explain the gist of how the boss battles work, albeit nowhere near as detailed as MTQCapture or Xenosys Vex.

I do remember the Garuda Extreme guide Mr Happy has been criticized for. Mr Happy's guide had the MT tank both Garuda and Suparna. That would mean a Double Wicked Wheel having a high chance of killing non-tanks (heck Garuda's Wicked Wheel alone would knock out a non-tank at the relevant item level 65-90.) However, no other video guide showed that the "intended" triangle stat that JP players tend to use to minimize stress on the main tanks and melee players.

I will say that Mr Happy's best written guide IMO is his Sophia Extreme guide. That guide showed the square tiles being used as the place to stand while there will be a small tilt happening, among other things. (and those areas are where the waymarks were placed at the time the battle was relevant in 3.4 and 3.5 patches.)

MrHappy isn't something I'd call reliable as far as guides go.

Not interested in teaching someone who doesn't want to learn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Some of us do try to help. And then we get called an elitist. Then, when we stop helping because we get tired of being called an elitist, we are called an elitist again. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

---

If you see the other person as an equal and are genuine about your desire to assist them, you are not an elitist.

You become an elitist when anyone and everyone who doesn't meet your performance standards isn't worth your time.

All I can say about this Matter is, dont stop to help even if you meet people that are rude, if so thats their loss, not everyone is Like that. If you dont help people because you think most of them dont want help its the same as if you were that Player that dont want to make an effort to learn. Because you dont want to make an effort yourself.