PSA: Macro Sound Effects Harm People with Sensory Issues

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Originally Posted by bitterish

tbh i agree that some of the sound effects can be quite loud, that's why i choose <se.14> for all of my macros because it's the most subtle and the least obnoxious one. however, i don't think checkbox will be a good option since people can easily abuse it and it defies the sole purpose of the sound effects itself. instead, an independent volume bar for macro sound effect would be nicer. i know it's not that different from the checkbox, but at least it doesn't completely mute the sounds.

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Turning off all sound defeats purpose of them and we can do that. So not really a good argument against a toggle.

You should suggest this in technical forum. I doubt there is anyone other than the occasional community manager in here.

A small bandaid for you could be to keybind "mute system sounds" to a key on your mouse or keyboard, so you can quickly turn them off when you see them being used a lot.

Allthough it's not what you wanted, it's the best solution in this point in time. I don't think this would fall high on their priority list unless you come out with like a thousand sig petition or some sort of community outrage. :(

This is my petition. I hope that they would take this into consideration. Technical Support didn’t sound like a suggestion area - they have no category for in-game suggestions. So I figured this was the best place I could say something.

Hello there!

Thanks for providing your feedback regarding sound effect macros and the user experience in FINAL FANTASY XIV.

In Patch 4.1, we implemented a variety of new sound related text commands. The command "/systemsounds" can be easily turned into a macro button and will toggle the system sounds on and off when used, without having to open your audio System Configuration UI regularly.

To do this, go to System > User Macros.

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Select a name and icon of your choosing, and then simply add "/systemsounds" as the text command.

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You can then drag this button on to your bars for a quick and easy toggle option!

For those interested in lowering the volume instead of muting it entirely, you can do so by typing "/systemsounds [1 - 100]", i.e. "/systemsounds 50" would give you system sounds at 50% volume. Check out the 4.1 Patch Notes for all of the other new text commands that can help you easily customize your sound experience.

We understand that muting all system sounds may not be the ideal solution for those who are specifically disrupted by sound effect macros, but wish to hear other system sounds. Please rest assured that we'll be sharing this feedback and your comments with the appropriate dev. teams.

In the meantime, we hope that these macros may be of assistance to any players who wish to avoid sounds that are disruptive to their experience while adventuring in Hydaelyn.

Well I'll be damned! :D great community service :D

I wonder if just adding a command to the already existent /systemsounds where you can specify the sound effect numbers would be ideal. That way, players with sensory issues can mute just the ones that have an affect on them. Might be harder on the devs(or easier, I really don't know anything about being a developer), but could be something they can look into.

Thank you, Luxpheras!

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Originally Posted by Luxpheras

We understand that muting all system sounds may not be the ideal solution for those who are specifically disrupted by sound effect macros, but wish to hear other system sounds. Please rest assured that we'll be sharing this feedback and your comments with the appropriate dev. teams. In the meantime, we hope that these macros may be of assistance to any players who wish to avoid sounds that are disruptive to their experience while adventuring in Hydaelyn.

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Please give the feedback to the development team. While this is a nice temporary solution, it is not a complete solution: a check box for specifically disabling user-created macro sound effects would be ideal. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I wonder if just adding a command to the already existent /systemsounds where you can specify the sound effect numbers would be ideal. That way, players with sensory issues can mute just the ones that have an affect on them. Might be harder on the devs(or easier, I really don't know anything about being a developer), but could be something they can look into.

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THIS I could deal with. Just a script command to eliminate sounds from certain numbers would be amazing - I enjoy the bongo effect since it isn't high pitched. It doesn't bother me like others.

You can turn off or lower sound effects. I also find them very annoying and keep them turned low to avoid it.

The fix suggested by the mod is actually pretty good. Thanks for that and thanks for passing this issues along to the dev team!

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Originally Posted by Kisagami

*snippers*

But seriously I cannot handle the sound effects... they're so high pitched and awful, but certain sound effects such as the dungeon commence ones are not irritating, and can be necessary if you're in a long queue and looked away for a while. Macro sound effects needs its own toggle box.

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/hug

I experience similar issues. Not Aspergers but I definitely suffer from periods of sensory overload which make me violently ill. If you ever need downtime, and just want to chat/vent with someone who is sympathetic, please feel free to friend me.:D

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

/hug

I experience similar issues. Not Aspergers but I definitely suffer from periods of sensory overload which make me violently ill. If you ever need downtime, and just want to chat/vent with someone who is sympathetic, please feel free to friend me.:D

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Thank you so much. I really enjoy you in the show off your Lalafel forums! ^^ We should hang out sometimes!

I don't think I can say how much I LOVE this thread. I myself have a number of issues, and Aspergers/HFA (As its been reclassified) is on top for me (along with PTSD and depression). Not only me, but also my daughter, (Autistic, don't know what level yet) who is often in the room when I play. I often need to run dungeons with sounds off all together if macros and other noises start to get to her.
Just throwing in my support for this (saw it linked on my LS's discord)

People should be taking breaks regardless. We all love FF and lets face it time flies. We all have common sense and break times should be a must. While some have better tolerance levels than others their are certain options to help. Lower SFX , wear noise cancelling earphones, take actual breaks not oh door, or food, or getting drink. -.-; If people have disabilities it is understandable and should take proper precautions. It's call common sense. People with Sensory issues should really take more than normal to prevent more serious health issues.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

People should be taking breaks regardless. We all love FF and lets face it time flies. We all have common sense and break times should be a must. While some have better tolerance levels than others their are certain options to help. Lower SFX , wear noise cancelling earphones, take actual breaks not oh door, or food, or getting drink. -.-; If people have disabilities it is understandable and should take proper precautions. It's call common sense. People with Sensory issues should really take more than normal to prevent more serious health issues.

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So in other words if you have sensory issues, take longer breaks and don’t try to keep up with others? Not ask for sound suggestions in order to make things easier? I should deal with high pitched noise spam, even if I turn it down to 10 volume, because some jerk spammed it, and not bring attention to the fact the sound have me a 16 hour long migraine?

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

People should be taking breaks regardless. We all love FF and lets face it time flies. We all have common sense and break times should be a must. While some have better tolerance levels than others their are certain options to help. Lower SFX , wear noise cancelling earphones, take actual breaks not oh door, or food, or getting drink. -.-; If people have disabilities it is understandable and should take proper precautions. It's call common sense. People with Sensory issues should really take more than normal to prevent more serious health issues.

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so you are saying "if you are disabled in anyway shape or form you can't enjoy the game the way NT (neurotypical aka normal) people do?"
We take precautions, asking for things to be made more adaptable is not a crime nor an issue.

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Originally Posted by Jennala84

so you are saying "if you are disabled in anyway shape or form you can't enjoy the game the way NT (neurotypical aka normal) people do?"
We take precautions, asking for things to be made more adaptable is not a crime nor an issue.

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Thank you. SE listened to a thread on color blindness and how the huds affected them. I was only asking this be a point as well.

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Originally Posted by Kisagami

Thank you. SE listened to a thread on color blindness and how the huds affected them. I was only asking this be a point as well.

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exactly, the game should be adaptable to all of us. I'm hoping they can implement a solution to this, and soon. I've been taking a break from the game the past few days because I've been in a rough place... but now i'm realizing it might not be so bad if I killed the sounds all together.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

People should be taking breaks regardless. We all love FF and lets face it time flies. We all have common sense and break times should be a must. While some have better tolerance levels than others there are certain options to help. Lower SFX , wear noise cancelling earphones, take actual breaks not oh door, or food, or getting drink. -.-; If people have disabilities it is understandable and should take proper precautions. It's call common sense. People with Sensory issues should really take more than normal to prevent more serious health issues.

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Oh, I do, Manuel. Everybody should play FFXIV responsibly and not overdo it.

Taking a break from the game every few hours is a must, especially if the player has health issues. Personally, I like to do stretching exercises every two hours.

However, Kisagami's request is reasonable because macro sounds affect her* and other players. It impacts their ability to play the game and cannot be resolved simply by taking a break.

Happily, Square Enix recognizes this and has begun to take steps to help those players who suffer when specific sounds in the game are experienced. While the player has to take care of their health, the developers are willing to help when the issue is too large to be resolved by the player by themself.

*I always refer to folks by the gender of their avatar or character unless told to do elsewise. ;)

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Originally Posted by Jennala84

exactly, the game should be adaptable to all of us. I'm hoping they can implement a solution to this, and soon. I've been taking a break from the game the past few days because I've been in a rough place... but now i'm realizing it might not be so bad if I killed the sounds all together.

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I am not certain if this is true in Windows; but, on my Mac, there are options to mute system sounds and notices from specific chat channels, in addition to the slash command which was posted earlier. You can mostly adjust the sound in the game to your liking.

OP, your concern is valid. I have sensitivity to sounds, especially abrupt ones like the macros, as well. (Mine is due to a special form of hearing damage from being in band as a kid. Thanks, trombones....)

My solution has been to play entirely on mute. 99% of content can be completed without sound. (I turn it on for Leviathan Ex, and I used to turn it on for T5 and T9 because of the divebomb jingle.)

But I'm going to try muting the system sounds only, or having it muted on a macro. Thanks for the suggestion!

Would finding sound files and replacing it with silence actually work or would patcher overwrite it everytime?

On the offchance though that the developers choose not to implement this, would any kind of exposure therapy help? Like playing the sounds on a loop while eating chocolate, so that they make you hungry instead of stressed out? Get all Pavlov on this problem.

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Originally Posted by Kisagami

So in other words if you have sensory issues, take longer breaks and don’t try to keep up with others? Not ask for sound suggestions in order to make things easier? I should deal with high pitched noise spam, even if I turn it down to 10 volume, because some jerk spammed it, and not bring attention to the fact the sound have me a 16 hour long migraine?

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More like if your going to be playing online be aware of your limitations. If you know you have sensory issues is more of a reason to be cautions. Yes some jerk will keep spamming it not on purpose, more because he can't avoid it if its part of the actions that are needed. People who blame a product for that just plain stupid. I suffer from constant migraines since I was little and enjoy the game regardless. I know my limitations and rather than complain I find ways to enjoy the game. While I understand common sense is a dying trait at a minimum a person must know that if they have sensory issues they should take more breaks than normal. By own means though if people like to suffer enjoy the annoying sounds and crank it up.

You know, it only just occurs to me that this is the only MMO I've ever played that even has those, let alone allows you to use the parenthetical brackets to force-play them for others. I use them A LOT for my own benefit, like when receiving messages or various chats, but I NEVER do the <se.whatever> that plays it for everyone. So far, that was just true because there is nothing more annoying in this game than the douche in raids who spams macros of noises attached to ASCII images of moogles with wangs for 20 minutes. But now, I see some people have REAL issues with it, and it makes noisy moogle macro douchery even worse.

I 100% think the most effective answer is just to make it so you can't force others to hear sounds, its that easy. Leave them in for us to use for our own benefits, as they were intended, but remove all functionality that can use a <se.noise> to make noises audible to others. It isn't worth it, I've never needed that from someone else in any game, including this one, and if it's a real problem like this, just take it out. Make it go away. People will find other ways of communication that don't eff with the heads of others. After a look at Luxpheras' post, it's good to know that this has been passed along, maybe something good will come of it. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Jennala84

so you are saying "if you are disabled in anyway shape or form you can't enjoy the game the way NT (neurotypical aka normal) people do?"
We take precautions, asking for things to be made more adaptable is not a crime nor an issue.

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No, I am saying that if you have a sensory disability that may affect your health instead of complaining and blaming a product you should know better. You can still enjoy the game at a responsible level and change some of your settings to help you. I myself suffer from migraines and I can agree some SFX can effect me. If it begins to get to that level I am intelligent enough to say ok I need to rest and put the game down. Next time I go in or if I know there is a person playing for example with SAM I turn the SFX lower than usual. So put that whole disability vs normal issue back in the deck. Just because I have a disability my self I rather be treated like everyone else and I rather use common sense than my disability as an excuse. There is no harm in asking for a something. They did do a sound mute option and people still complain. I love sound track, yet it's sad when people lack common sense and want to have it done over all. You don't have to be Normal, because their is no longer anything or anyone that can be considered normal. Normal is just a label and a poor excuse. It's more of being delicate and people lacking common sense to measure their disabilities.

Actually, I just thought of something. I have played a text MUD game, a super long time ago, where you could choose to add sounds to certain string of text, or words, in the game, although obviously only in your own client. You could also highlight specific words and strings with various colors, rather than limiting them to only whole channels. If we could do something like this in our own UI, it would eliminate the need for anyone else to macro sounds in the first place, we could just set it to make a noise for us, that we want whenever a PC/NPC uses certain words in the text/chat. So to alert the raid to a certain mechanic, the word could just be used, and it would allow anyone to basically make their own settings on how to see/hear that in their own chats. I dunno if that's a good idea or not for this situation, but nevertheless, I figured it worth tossing out there in case it would be of use to the devs.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Oh, I do, Manuel. Everybody should play FFXIV responsibly and not overdo it.

Taking a break from the game every few hours is a must, especially if the player has health issues. Personally, I like to do stretching exercises every two hours.

However, Kisagami's request is reasonable because macro sounds affect her* and other players. It impacts their ability to play the game and cannot be resolved simply by taking a break.

Happily, Square Enix recognizes this and has begun to take steps to help those players who suffer when specific sounds in the game are experienced. While the player has to take care of their health, the developers are willing to help when the issue is too large to be resolved by the player by themself.

*I always refer to folks by the gender of their avatar or character unless told to do elsewise. ;)

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Yes SE has started to provide certain actions to assist and while it may not be an immediate solution certain settings can take time to adjust. The main issue is that people don't understand or refuse to research their in/outer game options. Here are some examples;

SFX adjustments , Color/brightness adjustments, refresh rates, and even anti blue light glasses can help with sensory issues. I am a gamer and really have a hard time both in RL and while I play do to my constant migraines. Yet I have learned of ways to be able to play longer. Before I could only play a few hours with large breaks in between. I did some research and adjustments and now I can play about an average rate with taking normal 15-20 min breaks. I can enjoy my day off playing the game that I love and keeps me entertained after a long week of work and everyday BS. My point being there are ways to enjoy game if people actually took the time and played around with their settings.

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

On the offchance though that the developers choose not to implement this, would any kind of exposure therapy help? Like playing the sounds on a loop while eating chocolate, so that they make you hungry instead of stressed out? Get all Pavlov on this problem.

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I would expect the opposite effect to happen; developing a distaste for chocolate.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Snip

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I love how you assume I just played through my migraine. I dropped the dungeon pnce I got the headache, leaving my friends behind before it developed into a full force migraine. However, once the macro was played, the damage was already done. I have searched Reddit for a means to replace the sounds on my client, however, they are in a file that has difficult data to modify and I am not technically savy.

I do take breaks, and lately I haven’t played more than maybe one or two hours. And I have overall avoided dungeons. I am fully ready to drop the game if I need to; but I know SE has accommodated others before for their needs and given the tools to help those with disabilities. They are an ethical company. So, I politely made a suggested and PSA to bring them aware to a problem multiple people agree with me on, if you have read the thread.

Stop assuming I’m just complaining to complain. I am bringing awareness so that SE doesn’t lose paying members like me from their subscription lists. From the outpouring of support I got in and oug of the game, this is a problem that affects more than just me.

I do not have any problems about the sound but I hope for the sake of the OP and other people that suffer from this that SE can find a solution. Its nice that we already got a post with a bit of a help (macro turning it on or off) but it would just be for the best if people can just click them off without having to lose all sounds. And even if that temporary solution is better than nothing, if the sound alone will be enough its already too late if someone posted a macro. I mean one could deactivate the sound in dungeons but you will still have enough chances to hear them suddenly in the overworld. So +1 for an option to turn the sounds off. (And they are already annoying for someone without problems, it really must be bad for those with problems. :/ )

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Originally Posted by Kisagami

I love how you assume I just played through my migraine. I dropped the dungeon pnce I got the headache, leaving my friends behind before it developed into a full force migraine. However, once the macro was played, the damage was already done. I have searched Reddit for a means to replace the sounds on my client, however, they are in a file that has difficult data to modify and I am not technically savy. ....

Stop assuming I’m just complaining to complain. I am bringing awareness so that SE doesn’t lose paying members like me from their subscription lists. From the outpouring of support I got in and oug of the game, this is a problem that affects more than just me.

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It is not an assumption, assuming would only make an ass of you and me. Look from a technical perspective it can be done, to apply it however takes a bit more specially since testing needs to be done to insure that the changes won't create other issues. It's not as easy as it sounds. I'm sure SE is aware and from an ethical point of view by just providing option to adjust their settings in game shows that they have taken that into consideration. What this community is asking is to do a type of overhaul on the settings system. There is more to it than people think. Over all legally any service can have a settings adjustment and would be fine in terms supporting options. SE does try to adjust to it's players base the best they can, however from a business perspective you need think about certain things.

First how big is the issue affecting the client base?

is it affecting all subscribers, half subscribers, some subscribers. Depending on that a company can take action.

Are their more urgent issues?

Are people complaining more about a completely different subject ( connections, compatibility ) that is affecting more members than a minor percentage.

Think of it this way. What do people complain more about? Sensory issues or housing? What percentage of the player base is being affected? If it's not affecting normally a minimum of 35% as a whole chances are they are not being considered top of the list versus lets say DDOS attack that has affected a higher base.

In no way , shape, or form am I against changes, what I am surprised is that people complain without exploring all their options because they are too lazy to do so.

Now if your leaving a party behind do to your migraine guess what your health is more important and if they are your friends they will understand. That is what LS , FC, or other forms of communication can be used. Their is even a party finder after someone disconnects or needs to be replace. Don't worry they will live on unless they choose not to replace you. No one is that special and can be replaced. Yes we feel bad for doing so, however it is not something that can force the whole game to stop in it's tracks. Yes having a disability is not something we ask for, however it is not a reason to use it as an excuse when there are options.

Clearly and politely indicates an issue? Check.

Provides a reasonable solution? Check.

Listens to additional possibilities and amends proposed solution accordingly? Check.

Proposed solution does not change existing play functionality for existing users? Check.

Proposed solution completely addresses and solves indicated issue? Check.

Sounds like you've made a fantastic issue-thread!

I hope you get what you're requesting.
Speaking as a programmer, what you're asking for is not difficult.
It will, however, require a certain amount of time to implement.

That time needs to be balanced against benefits to all users for other time-requiring updates.
Unfortunately, something that takes a similar amount of time to implement but helps more users might take precedence.

But, you've got my vote!
I think it would be great to have an option to lessen (and remove, if preferred) the volume on user-initiated-macro-sounds.

...just wanted to give some praise where it's due.
This thread should be bookmarked as a template for others on how to raise any issue with any software. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

What this community is asking is to do a type of overhaul on the whole system. There is more to it than people think.

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What?

Providing a sound slider for existing sounds would be an overhaul on the whole system?
Um... no.
Not unless it was programmed by evolutionary-guided-code-creation instead of thinking people running under the smallest amount of structure.

The game already has sliders for some sounds.
User macros are obviously sectioned apart on their own (as they are treated differently from other sounds).
It would not be difficult to create some sort of similar-volume-slider for user macro sounds.
It would simply require some programmer time dedicated to the task.
It's simply a matter of deciding if that programmer time is best spent here, or better spent somewhere else possibly providing more benefit to more users.

You're making it sound like they're asking to overwrite any sound in the game with their own .mp3 file or something.

Yes, testing is obviously required, as it is with any change.
But the testing/implementation for this sort of thing would be as easy as it gets... simply taking some time.

Sorry meant the SFX system and/or certain coding for certain actions as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Cold_Raven

What?

Yes, testing is obviously required, as it is with any change.
But the testing/implementation for this sort of thing would be as easy as it gets... simply taking some time.

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Time which again needs to be gauged from a business perspective based on the amount of player based being affected by it or being supported by. I do coding and have a business major, myself so I apologize should have been more specific.

Hmmm as for how easy it varies really. Can't really judge unless you know their system.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Time which again needs to be gauged from a business perspective based on the amount of player based being affected by it or being supported by. I do coding and have a business major, myself so I apologize should have been more specific.

Hmmm as for how easy it varies really. Can't really judge unless you know their system.

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I’m not removing or stopping my SUGGESTION thread just because you think it’ll take away time from developers. Why are we debating this? What is your end goal here? What you are saying is irrelevant to the topic and frankly just making people feel invalidated. You are NOT SE. you are not a GM. My suggestion obviously was relevant enough to get a community lead response. And this debate is distracting from the actual suggestions of how such a thing can be implemented. I keep amending my thread for different ideas - the developers can choose the easiest.

Why out of all the SUGGESTION threads are you nitpicking this one?

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

In no way , shape, or form am I against changes, what I am surprised is that people complain without exploring all their options because they are too lazy to do so.

however it is not something that can force the whole game to stop in it's tracks. Yes having a disability is not something we ask for, however it is not a reason to use it as an excuse when there are options.

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Made previous thread asking if I can disable macro sounds. Check. (Look at my previous threads)
Asked Reddit if there was a way to edit the sounds myself. Check.
Turned system settings down to 1%. Check.
Asked friends not to use macro sound effects. Check.
Asked other party members not to use them if they can. Check.
Got response from community leaders on a macro sounds disable. Check.
Friend sent email to a FF14 model modder who said he could modify sounds like he does models. Check.

Now who’s lazy here? I have everything I can do on my end. But I was told I can make suggestions on forums AND I DID.

I'm all for options that let people customize their setup. Not everyone likes the same setup. The current macro calls don't bother me too much. Does anyone remember that super loud whistle call from ffxi? I hated that one and people used it everytime they pulled a mob in exp groups.

I hope this gets looked into. Hopefully there will be a big QOL overhaul mini patch where this gets looked into. I love to also have private macro sounds (unless i completely missed it) just a way that i can get it to beep at me to let me know that mini bahaumet is ready to auk morn again.

The basic consensus here is that we are all for more customization to make our clients run the way we want, and I am happy about that. This isn’t just a sensory issues thing; many people would love the ability to mute forced sound effects and those alone. In hindsight, the sound effects are invasive to many - especially when spammed.

Thank you all for the support - really we’ve only had one detractor so far...