Can we please get more cool looking outfits for male characters?

More masculine male outfits might make me fantasia to a guy. Adding the bunny outfit for males would not entice me to switch when I can already wear that. More masculine glamours for males, yes please.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Because female characters in mmo's have been, are, and will be a better target for making income when it comes to outfits.
You need to look only at various (high) Fantasy F2P mmo's to see which audience the most stuff will get.

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Dunno what you mean. Depending on the region, as many male chars are played as female, if not more. The proportions don't vary greatly enough for this excuse to fly.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

It doesn't matter what's the population is - It's more the question which gender is ready to pour more of their income into the shop?
And given the galleries of some glamour websites there's a defining trend towards the female characters which the players are more willing to invest in, for fashion reasons, than their counterpart.

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If you provide more and better female glamours, a self-fulfilling prophesy will arise where people playing females invest more in their glamours. This isn't due to the business sense of it, it is due to what players find available to them as a result of the business's decisions. You've made a circular argument, and that's about it.

It's already bad enough that some of the gear on this shop (e.g. the noble outfits) outstrips the dropped gear in instances, in a rather pricy sub-based MMO.

Also, on an unrelated note, I find it funny that Lyse's only redeeming traits in her bland performance is her outfit, and this one isn't even particularly great.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

Adding the bunny outfit for males would not entice me to switch when I can already wear that. More masculine glamours for males, yes please.

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http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bth.gif

The male bunny outfit isn't really meant to entice people to fanta as much as its to give guys something they should have had years ago. But yes to manly glams too. The new MNK set with the tattoos is awesome. More stuff in that vein would be fun.

Whilst we're at it, I hope they added some better BLM outfits. Their design choices have been uninspiring for a while now.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

It's not based on statistics (they believe they have more subscribers who main male characters; whether or not they're correct is an irrelevant point as it's just anecdotal evidence).

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The relevant statistic would be who spends more on glamours, rather than just subscribers.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

It's not commercially sound (they can see how much money on unnecessary extra junk I spend on this game - it's a lot, and not everyone unhappy with this treatment is even staying to pay a subscription).

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There's no doubt there are players who want more glamour for male characters. I think the relevant question is whether that's the norm, or if those players are a relatively small number.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

It's not based on history, because when ARR launched and became a success glamour options were 100% equal between male and female characters.

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I don't understand this argument at all. ARR launched with even glamours, and since then, they've become uneven. Doesn't that imply that Square Enix, who has hard data on exactly who glamours what, has seen that there's more demand for female glamours?

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Originally Posted by Serilda

It's not because SB 'happened' to have more female characters they could use, because they still chose to lock the outfits. I'm happy there are so many female NPCs. But there's no rational justification for locking hotpants and a jacket.

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They started locking (male) outfits after people complained that the genders weren't being treated fairly. When they first started doing gendered sets, like the bridesmaid/best man's sets, they generally left the male version unisex while the female version was locked.

Given how Square Enix has acted here, I think it's safe to assume that they think female glamours are more lucrative. We can argue until we're blue in the face about why they think that, but we don't have access to any real data. Square Enix, on the other hand, do.

Hello, everyone!

Since we’re constantly taking various factors into consideration when deciding on the release time frame for gear, there may be instances, such as this, where female-specific gear is released back-to-back. With that said, we do want to assure you that we’re preparing male-specific gear to be released in the future, so we hope you're looking forward to it!

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Originally Posted by Talraen

The relevant statistic would be who spends more on glamours, rather than just subscribers.

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I think it's reasonable to assume it would be the group who have more access to glamours, yes. It's like the logic that girls glamour more because the Thavnairian Bustier is one of the most popular glamour items every census - except girls can also wear the male version, and choose not to. Because the female version looks better. The fanmade designs to adapt it to males by deleting some of the cloth were stunning, and easy to implement with existing assets.

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Given how Square Enix has acted here, I think it's safe to assume that they think female glamours are more lucrative. We can argue until we're blue in the face about why they think that, but we don't have access to any real data. Square Enix, on the other hand, do.

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That's another problem I have with their attitude towards us. It justifies the insulting comments people make, like the one earlier today that we should be happy we even got a Hannish shirt model at all instead of complaining. I hate being angry all the time, and being led on. If they'd just came out and admitted they hate male characters I'd have moved on a long time ago instead of flaming up the forums every few weeks.

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Originally Posted by Sicycre

Hello, everyone!

Since we’re constantly taking various factors into consideration when deciding on the release time frame for gear, there may be instances, such as this, where female-specific gear is released back-to-back. With that said, we do want to assure you that we’re preparing male-specific gear to be released in the future, so we hope you're looking forward to it!

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Thank you for the response. Please, please, please pass the feedback back up the chain if you can; I cannot understate how utterly demoralising playing a male character feels these days. It's not just because of the pattern of releasing these two recent outfits; they're just events which further twist the knife.

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Originally Posted by Sicycre

Hello, everyone!

Since we’re constantly taking various factors into consideration when deciding on the release time frame for gear, there may be instances, such as this, where female-specific gear is released back-to-back. With that said, we do want to assure you that we’re preparing male-specific gear to be released in the future, so we hope you're looking forward to it!

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Thanks for your response! I'm glad you guys were looking into this matter.

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Originally Posted by Sicycre

Hello, everyone!

Since we’re constantly taking various factors into consideration when deciding on the release time frame for gear, there may be instances, such as this, where female-specific gear is released back-to-back. With that said, we do want to assure you that we’re preparing male-specific gear to be released in the future, so we hope you're looking forward to it!

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Can we ask what sort of factors you guys are taking in?

I ask this because we're getting the impression that the top factor here seems be SE getting the impression that we want more fem glams when the population's has actually been requesting unisex and/or more male glam to equate the fem glam numbers.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

If you provide more and better female glamours, a self-fulfilling prophesy will arise where people playing females invest more in their glamours. This isn't due to the business sense of it, it is due to what players find available to them as a result of the business's decisions. You've made a circular argument, and that's about it.

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And what makes it less creditable? It is a fact, nothing else, that Fantasy mmo's tend to pool their attention and efforts in certain directions, and outfits are no exception.

Because it's profitable to do so, nothing else. And if that said direction results in a bigger revenue, then you can bet they'll pick up on that.
Until the playerbase makes a big enough stink in equal of the recent Battle Front 2 debacle, that is.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Well, part of the reason is that it apparently takes them 6+ months to make new gear (and over a year or so to make a male version of the Gold Saucer 'bunny' gear... and dyable Post Moogle cap. srsly SE?).

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It just gets put on the back burner the devs have to keep making the new stuff while also taking time to either change older things or add something new to old things. its not like they have an entire division dedicated to remaking old stuff or making stuff dye able

Since PAX east: 2x/04/2016

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Originally Posted by strigiformes

At the PAX East panel this weekend, we heard that the dev team would be amenable to unlocking gender gear depending on popularity of items, and that we should take to the forums to let them know which ones we want! So I'll start. I'd really love to have the wedding gear be unlocked, specifically the Tailcoat set:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-n...E3%83%8901.png

http://i.imgur.com/2vjYlDc.png

Also, when we do get the 7-11 items, the Butler set...

Which items would you like to see gender unlocked? I know quite a few people who'd love to have the bunny set for their male characters!

Edit: Thanks Bayohne for the clarifying post! My intent for this thread was exactly what you stated, so I hope it's okay if I paste your instructions here too:

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Nothing new on that (more than 1 and 1/2 year without anything.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Well, part of the reason is that it apparently takes them 6+ months to make new gear (and over a year or so to make a male version of the Gold Saucer 'bunny' gear... and dyable Post Moogle cap. srsly SE?).

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Bunny outfit is more than 2 years...

Also, i don't understand why female characters need much more glamours...
According to both census (2014 and 2015 )

2014 most glamoured item:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...0&d=1413527761

The average cat girl only need that cause even in 2015

http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/Eorze...N_Census_L.PNG

http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/Eorze...N_Census_L.PNG

Hempen set is far than enough...

The issue is definitely how much less effort goes into making male sets AND the lack of male-exclusive sets overall. I don't like the cash shop but I'd spend on it if they gave us better stuff. As it is I only have HW Thancred's and Aymeric's, because they were the only unique/nice ones.

The percieved better gender equality in gear was definitely 1 of the big reasons why I've been playing for 4+ years and the only reason I picked it back up after 1.0 was the existence of male miqote (animal-eared race not female-only). As it is, Stormblood has me thinking they're turning back to old MMO standard ways and half of gamers will be back to feeling like they're not who this game is for.

Some of it even feels like willful sabotage. For Halloween, they purposefully made a slapdash furred t-shirt model when the sleeveless top should have been unisex. I'm already used to them using the same reskinned pants but are bare biceps too uncomfortable for male dev team?

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Originally Posted by Pingosteel

Also, i don't understand why female characters need much more glamours...
According to both census (2014 and 2015 )

2014 most glamoured item:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...0&d=1413527761

The average cat girl only need that cause even in 2015

http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/Eorze...N_Census_L.PNG

http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/Eorze...N_Census_L.PNG

Hempen set is far than enough...

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I think you are misreading the data. Hempen gear and eternal bond gear both have male equivalents, but the female gear is consistently higher on the lists. That implies that people with female characters glamour more, and therefore it makes sense for them to have more glamour options.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I think you are misreading the data. Hempen gear and eternal bond gear both have male equivalents, but the female gear is consistently higher on the lists. That implies that people with female characters glamour more, and therefore it makes sense for them to have more glamour options.

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No it doesn't. But let's start making new gear for Miqo'te Seeker Female only because more of them glamour clothes. It only makes sense for them to have more options.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I think you are misreading the data. Hempen gear and eternal bond gear both have male equivalents, but the female gear is consistently higher on the lists. That implies that people with female characters glamour more, and therefore it makes sense for them to have more glamour options.

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Or that most people with female characters have very similar glamours

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

No it doesn't. But let's start making new gear for Miqo'te Seeker Female only because more of them glamour clothes. It only makes sense for them to have more options.

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Yes, it does. If female only items are the most glamoured, that means female characters glamour the most.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Yes, it does. If female only items are the most glamoured, that means female characters glamour the most.

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That's definitely not what I meant. I said it doesn't make sense to use that as an excuse to make female-only items. Otherwise you can take it further to make glamour locked to Miqo'te Seeker female only.

Obviously female-only items will be glamoured more than male-only items because females have so many female-only items???

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

That's definitely not what I meant. I said it doesn't make sense to use that as an excuse to make female-only items. Otherwise you can take it further to make glamour locked to Miqo'te Seeker female only.

Obviously female-only items will be glamoured more than male-only items because females have so many female-only items???

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I'm not making an excuse to make more, they already make more. I'm suggesting that SE has already made more female glamour because they are aware that it's more likely to be used. The person I was replying to was claiming "hempen set is enough" as if those lists meant only the hempen set is used for glamour. I was trying to provide another point of view and potential reasoning for why there is more female glamour.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I think you are misreading the data. Hempen gear and eternal bond gear both have male equivalents, but the female gear is consistently higher on the lists. That implies that people with female characters glamour more, and therefore it makes sense for them to have more glamour options.

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I don't think so.
That means that female character only use very few piece of gear for their glamours.
Back in those days, a vast majority of female character were wearing only hempen while male use more diverses glams.
Even more: how many female characters worn the thav dress when it comes out and affordable? easily 25% of the female character player-base on my serv.
They have more option but stay un-original...
That's why i said only hempen is enough.
If you are even a little honest about what you see IG, you know that nearly everybody glamour their gear (or at least dye it).
So, no, female characters don't "glamour more", they glamour "less original" according to the census.

And if female-only glamour are more glamoured, it's maybe because,

1) we don't have male variant or
2) we have but it looks bad/garbage (skalla healer gear for exemple...)

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Originally Posted by Pingosteel

I don't think so.
That means that female character only use very few piece of gear for their glamours.
Back in those days, a vast majority of female character were wearing only hempen while male use more diverses glams.
Even more: how many female characters worn the thav dress when it comes out and affordable? easily 25% of the female character player-base on my serv.
They have more option but stay un-original...
That's why i said only hempen is enough.
If you are even a little honest about what you see IG, you know that nearly everybody glamour their gear (or at least dye it).
So, no, female characters don't "glamour more", they glamour "less original" according to the census.

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This census data is likely the number of times a thing was glamoured, not the number of people wearing it as glamour at a specific date and time. So female characters use more glamour prisms, because there are more female-only items ranked highly in the census. They glamour something one way and then change it. I'm not even sure what timeframe the thavnarian dress being "out and affordable" is, on my server it wasn't affordable until it was made common in aquapolis so you're talking about over a year or so of time, of course a lot of people would have worn it. And again you're incorrectly assuming that they just glamour into it and wear it forever because they aren't original, instead of the reality that they change glamour more than once per year.

I'm not opposed to male characters getting glamours, but with your petty attacks on "the average catgirl" you're not really making me want to root for you either.

Let's not forget that some players (like myself) only play female because of the lack of male options. I started v1 with a male, I played thru arr with a male, but switched in hw because I got sick of looking like crud. Even a lot of the standard and tome gear is clearly meant for a female form even if it's listed as unisex.

Let's not even get started on how silly things look on the larger build races of highlander and roe males.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I think you are misreading the data. Hempen gear and eternal bond gear both have male equivalents, but the female gear is consistently higher on the lists. That implies that people with female characters glamour more, and therefore it makes sense for them to have more glamour options.

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Female hempen sets just look better. The Miqo'te and and Midlander ones just look like regular shirts, and even Au Ra one looks alright. The male Midlander one is marred by the weird choker, and the catboy's bondage crop-top has niche appeal to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Sicycre

Hello, everyone!

Since we’re constantly taking various factors into consideration when deciding on the release time frame for gear, there may be instances, such as this, where female-specific gear is released back-to-back. With that said, we do want to assure you that we’re preparing male-specific gear to be released in the future, so we hope you're looking forward to it!

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I cant wait for more cash shop number fluffing instead of new unique sets :^)

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

This census data is likely the number of times a thing was glamoured, not the number of people wearing it as glamour at a specific date and time. So female characters use more glamour prisms, because there are more female-only items ranked highly in the census. They glamour something one way and then change it. I'm not even sure what timeframe the thavnarian dress being "out and affordable" is, on my server it wasn't affordable until it was made common in aquapolis so you're talking about over a year or so of time, of course a lot of people would have worn it. And again you're incorrectly assuming that they just glamour into it and wear it forever because they aren't original, instead of the reality that they change glamour more than once per year.

I'm not opposed to male characters getting glamours, but with your petty attacks on "the average catgirl" you're not really making me want to root for you either.

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So female characters use more glamour prisms

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They glamour more the same item. You missread the data.
100 female char glamour 100 times the same thing but 50 male something1 and 50 other something2 = same number of glamour for each part but 1st place in ranking goes to f-glam.


Also, don't feel hurt when i said "average cat girl".I don't attack anybody. That's ONLY because they are one of the biggest amount of player who are not bot. that's what is shown on the picture of the census. SE didn't put that here for no reason. So if you (or any other people) take what I said bad or feel hurt, i am sincerly sorry.

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Originally Posted by Sicycre

Hello, everyone!

Since we’re constantly taking various factors into consideration when deciding on the release time frame for gear, there may be instances, such as this, where female-specific gear is released back-to-back. With that said, we do want to assure you that we’re preparing male-specific gear to be released in the future, so we hope you're looking forward to it!

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Thanks for the response - it's good to know that this is on the list of things to look into. For what it's worth, I think Thancred's Heavensward outfit is the best male exclusive set so far as it is very detailed, the trousers work very nicely with various other sets and things like the Sky Pirate 'neck bandana' compliment it very well without any clipping.

Here's a rough example of some strategic mixing and matching:

http://78.media.tumblr.com/1bdeb6e94...9a7o1_1280.png

So it would definitely be awesome if more of the male exclusive gear had a similar level of depth to it. Throwing in bonuses like new hairstyles and facial features is a great bonus, too. I keep bringing it up, but Hien's hairstyle and facial hair would be wonderful customisation options to have access too through purchasing his set on the Mog Station.

There's been a lot of debate about this, but this is one of the few times I will chime in. I really don't get why there wasn't a male version of Lyse's top, just minus the chest wrapping. Similar to the past swim wear tops that had a bikini top under them for ladies. I know quite a few people who would like the vest open look on their male character. I know the whole set would need to be adjusted, not just the top. I am just focusing in on it because it could look cool on guys.

The vest is also detailed nicely for a simple piece. If only it could be dyed, which I would say for any cash shop purchase.

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Originally Posted by Sicycre

Hello, everyone!

Since we’re constantly taking various factors into consideration when deciding on the release time frame for gear, there may be instances, such as this, where female-specific gear is released back-to-back. With that said, we do want to assure you that we’re preparing male-specific gear to be released in the future, so we hope you're looking forward to it!

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What specific factors were considered that made this seem like the best course of action, despite the already massive imbalance in items favoring female characters? What new male-only gear is currently in the pipeline, and when can we expect female-only items without male equivalents, or where the 'male version' is, in fact, a 'unisex' version, to start being fixed and added into the game? Back when the Expeditioner's hand and arm gear had the gender-locks removed, it seemed that the accompanying statement was leading us to believe that, going forward, we would start to see unlocks happen a few items at a time, and yet it only happened that one time and then never again.

I cannot overstate how willing I am to WAIT and for these things to be done slowly, as long as they're done consistently and not forgotten about the moment we take a rest from asking. Even ONE item per patch would make me happy, because it would be visible progress and prove that my subscription mattered.

What the current progress on the male bunny outfit? Is it 90% done? 10%? Did they ask Tetsuya Nomura to design it, so knowing his amazing talent for procrastination, we'll see the completed design sometime in 2020? What's the hold up?

I will say that I would be just as happy with just having the existing female designs made wearable by male characters, as I would to have something specifically designed for males. Both would be even better, because then we could decide which we wanted to wear.

Don't want to give male characters a gown like Edda's or the wedding gown? A long, fancy coat with a similar aesthetic would be a perfectly acceptable masculine alternative, and would open up the floor for things like the groom's gear to be made unisex as many players with female characters have requested. Lyse's outfit could easily be worn as-is by males; the Picaroon's set has a very similar looking top, and is identical on males and females, and it's not like there aren't short-shorts for male characters in game, either. If making cosplay outfits unisex is completely out of the question for some reason (Despite it being done with outfits from other Final Fantasy series games, and some of the Garo sets), then the only solution is to not release a female-exclusive set until there's a male exclusive of comparable uniqueness and complexity ready to also be released.

Simply releasing what is functionally a half-finished product (only 7 out of the 13 models required to fit all races and genders completed), is not an acceptable option at this point, when we already have so many instances of this being done, and a history of promises to rectify the situation being made but never followed up on.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

What specific factors were considered that made this seem like the best course of action, despite the already massive imbalance in items favoring female characters?

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I would love to know this too. We already know how big a problem this is in the English forums, where even those who oppose basic equal treatment for all players groan every time they see the campaign is going to kick off again. In the Japanese forums, the current master thread about how mediocre glamour content is for male characters is one of the most popular discussions in its section, with more views by far than even the general topic about mount idea suggestions. People post and post until they hit their daily post limits begging for some acknowledgement, and occasionally we get replies which tell us we're being listened to which never translate into the development team understanding why we're leaving. The 'solution' by giving us priority in the mog station (for reskins, and apparently not extending to hairstyles) was a mockery from the outset, and now even that promise has been broken.

How on earth can people be asking for new races when the design team is so choked that they can't even cater for the models we already have?

Yoshida's motto, which he used when introducing the ARR team, was "Everything is for all of the players' sake."

I don't feel like I'm included in that group any more, S-E. I haven't felt like a valued customer in a long time.

As an aside, I would genuinely like to see Yoshi-P and the other major developers play around with male characters more often. I hate to say it, but I feel like a large part of the problem may very well be unintentional bias. We know, for instance, that Yoshi-P primarily plays a female lalafell. He is also on record in a recent interview saying that his favourite female race out of all the playable options happens to be au ra which underwent a very drastic redesign from the original concept art. At his behest? I can only speculate.

Still, the game really does feel like it is pushing the cute/sexy/feminine angle a little too much. Every time there's a new live letter it seems like a portion of it is devoted to talking about new feminine glamour options, cute plushies or in-game cat ear headbands. It's pretty clearly focusing on a particular demographic. A demographic that by no means should be ignored...but at the same time it would be nice if those of us wanting male characters to get more cool stuff were not left feeling neglected. It's not just about the Mog Station but the overall package.

I agree, add cool male outfits and make them unisex, still waiting for Cid' attire to be for girls too. I'd also like many other recipe glamours too that are suitable for guys.. those eastern dresses never really cought my eye and I like my brd to look tomboyish.

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Originally Posted by Leloa

I agree, add cool male outfits and make them unisex, still waiting for Cid' attire to be for girls too. I'd also like many other recipe glamours too that are suitable for guys.. those eastern dresses never really cought my eye and I like my brd to look tomboyish.

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They need to not be unisex until parity is achieved between the options all players have. Furthermore, Cid's outfit should stay male-only until the problems with the cash shop 'balance' are addressed once and for all. And the cool-looking outfits should emphasise the male physique where possible.

I am very much of the opinion that all gear should be unisex, personally, to accommodate girls who want sensible clothes and boys who want elegant gear, but adding a bunch of tomboy glamour for girls too wouldn't help address the situation S-E created. The designers would just end up favouring the female models again and adding their own preferred touches, and Theo would be understandably upset when his much-requested masculine gear came with ribbons, corsets and flowers all over it. Again. These designers simply cannot help themselves.

(Though I totally like ribbons and corsets as well.)

There's a lot of interesting outfits worn by civilian NPC's throughout Ishgard and Kugane that are not currently available. It'd be pretty great if they were added to the game - I believe I've seen that suggestion brought up already a few times, though.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

There's a lot of interesting outfits worn by civilian NPC's throughout Ishgard and Kugane that are not currently available. It'd be pretty great if they were added to the game - I believe I've seen that suggestion brought up already a few times, though.

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Yes, and make it so you can buy them with MGP like the previous civilian outfits.

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Originally Posted by Pingosteel

I don't think so.
That means that female character only use very few piece of gear for their glamours.
Back in those days, a vast majority of female character were wearing only hempen while male use more diverses glams.
Even more: how many female characters worn the thav dress when it comes out and affordable? easily 25% of the female character player-base on my serv.
They have more option but stay un-original...
That's why i said only hempen is enough.
If you are even a little honest about what you see IG, you know that nearly everybody glamour their gear (or at least dye it).
So, no, female characters don't "glamour more", they glamour "less original" according to the census.

And if female-only glamour are more glamoured, it's maybe because,

1) we don't have male variant or
2) we have but it looks bad/garbage (skalla healer gear for exemple...)

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If male characters use more diverse glamours, fewer male characters are going to buy any particular glamour. In this case, it makes sense to focus on female glamours since female characters are "less original" and more likely to jump on the glamour bandwagon en masse.

here a suggest more ff male character a contest for for male armors

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

here a suggest more ff male character a contest for for male armors

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I predict they will pick the most cute outfit and release it as uni-sex, that is after we wait 3 years for those item to be created and added in the game.

Everyone talking about male outfits, and here I am just waiting on a piece of armor that looks like armor without a cape/halfskirt for my tank.

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Originally Posted by Talraen

If male characters use more diverse glamours, fewer male characters are going to buy any particular glamour. In this case, it makes sense to focus on female glamours since female characters are "less original" and more likely to jump on the glamour bandwagon en masse.

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->

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And if female-only glamour are more glamoured, it's maybe because,

1) we don't have male variant or
2) we have but it looks bad/garbage (skalla healer gear for exemple...)

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In 2016 the most glamoured item was the Uraeus Coat, which is unisex. Everybody glamoured it (myself included).
So if given the opportunity, everybody is un-original. With good looking gear (even in MS), male characters will rush to buy too.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Let's not even get started on how silly things look on the larger build races of highlander and roe males.

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What looks silly on Highlanders and Roes? Been playing as a Roe/Highlander male exclusively for 2 years now. Haven't noticed anything look silly unless you make it look silly.