"Casual" content thoughts

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

When I can two button heal veteran White Gold Tower and Morrowind veteran DLC dungeons on a Nightblade.. its far too easy. Its one of the reasons I stopped ESO. I basically beat it. That was at Champion 300 where max is 660. I could probably ignore most mechanics if I was 660. Healing a Plane of Fear break-in on a Druid on a Everquest progression server was more challenging then that.

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Having to use less buttons does not make the content any easier, it makes your character easier to play. IMO thats a good thing to a certain point becuase the challenge should be the content not playing your class.

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Originally Posted by Tiranadel

As someone who does have a physical disability and some social anxiety, I wanted to post how it is for me on this game. I've been playing this since January 2014. Snip Snip

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Our experience with this game is so similar it's scary. I did arr as a bard then I did Hw and Sb as a red mage and it took most of a gaming day to get past Shinyru. I spent the first week doing Hw content so this was week two but everyone was still new. I cannot commit to a raid team for similar reasons as yourself but I have done everything before savage and I think this game's mechanics are harder than WoW. I need to look at my hotbars to see cooldowns and procs so it's hard for me to also look at the creature I am fighting and a lot of creatures in FF14 have attacks that you need to read the screen for, such as charming eye attacks. In Wow I had audio cues to help with these but in ff14 I do not.

This is more like a balance problem. The people who paly this game casually and don't go for the hard content is higher in number than those who go for the hard or even medium difficulty things. Right now, only Omega 3 and 4 savage and Ultimate is the harder content, the Omega 1 and 2 savage and Shinryu is the "medium"content, and the rest is the "easy" content. If you pay attention, it is more or less in the same proportion as the community game-play style proportions (If we use the casual, mid-core, hardcore "classifications,"). I must say that maybe is the "medium" layout the one who should have a bit more of content.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

HyoMin, have you ever tried to imagine what it's like for genuine newcomers to MMOs? Or to gaming, for that matter. Most MMO players (heck, even myself) have a distorted view of what people consider "easy" and "hard".

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I am not the one you mentioned but I did play other MMOs before this game yet FF14 with its battle system was still new to me. But people can learn how it goes if they take their time and want to learn. Between lvl 1 and the last 70 trial of the SB story is a big amount of content where you can train to get better. But if someone still does not know what certain basic mechanics are doing and cant at least do the basic of their job at 70 I do kinda wonder if they are lazy or not. If someone has a disability that hinders them that much (so that they cant even do the basics) they should inform the team about it. I am quite sure that most would be much more understanding if they know about that.

In the end this is group content and most people would not even say that you need to be a pro and perfect at it, but its just utterly frustrating to wipe countlessly at lvl 70 content because the person is just really bad at their job. This might sound harsh but if you cant even do the basic stuff and at least carry your weight at 70 then one would question if that is the right game for them.

(And no I am not a raider, I dont do savage content, I am more of a midcore casual gamer and I dont have a high bar set for others but I am still quite shocked how some perform. Its just bad when you kinda question how they are even just doing such low numbers or are constantly dieing over and over again to the same mechanic)

Give us farms like with Harvest Moon games, add a Shepard class and us casuals will eat it up.

People seem to fail to recognize that casual players make up the bulk of FFX!V's subscription funding. Trying to impose personal play-styles onto others in DF has just been hurting the community.
Personally I find this game has gotten so anti-social recently, I feel like I may as well be playing a single player game.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

People seem to fail to recognize that casual players make up the bulk of FFX!V's subscription funding. Trying to personal play-syles onto others in DF has just been hurting the community.
Personally I find this game has gotten so anti-social recently, I feel like I may as well be playing a single player game.

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Some people believe that the way to solve that problem is to force people to team up for more things or make content harder, but that's just what drives the casuals (who make up the bulk of the population) away.

If anything I expect them to make more casual friendly content, even some content that encourages people to play tanks and healers more

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

People seem to fail to recognize that casual players make up the bulk of FFX!V's subscription funding. Trying to personal play-syles onto others in DF has just been hurting the community.
Personally I find this game has gotten so anti-social recently, I feel like I may as well be playing a single player game.

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People can be casual without being inherently lazy. Casual =/= laziness. And, sadly, that is the connotation that “casual” has anymore, because people use it in arguments like this trying to defend poor/lazy play. Whether you are intending to do that or not, I can’t say, so I apologize if that’s not your intention, but a lot of other people have used “casual” in arguments like: “this game is made up primarily of casual players so stop trying to make things harder so that casuals can do it” or “make more content for casuals and that casuals can do”.

There is also the failure to see that there is a middle ground in terms of difficult: take some of the posts in this thread and others, where people claim that anyone asking for “harder” or “more engaging” content are automatically demanding that it be “Savage tier.” There is a middle ground between “easy mode/Baby’s First MMO” and “savage”. Making content “more engaging” is not going to “scare away” the casual players.

“Casual” means people that play this game infrequently or on a more casual basis: perhaps a couple hours a day/couple days a week, or the like. “Casual” does not mean “faceroll easy” or “lazy”, yet it tends to be used that way.

Please don't use disabilities and disorders as reasons to set limits for anything. Most people with either don't like that kind of association in the first place from my experience, myself included. Actually people overcoming their supposed handicaps is a thing. The only limit you have is the one you set for yourself. All through heavensward and some of 2.0, I didn't raid cause I have essential tremor in my hands, arms, and neck and its made worse by high concentration and situation intensity. Keyboard and mouse was way to aggravating, eventually plugged a PS4 controller into my computer... Fast forward to today, currently tanking for a casual group with some friends in it and we are progressing o3s.

I can appreciate a discussion of keeping the dungeon content at current difficulty but using handicaps and disorders as the means to an end is the wrong way to go about it.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

“Casual” means people that play this game infrequently or on a more casual basis: perhaps a couple hours a day/couple days a week, or the like. “Casual” does not mean “faceroll easy” or “lazy”, yet it tends to be used that way.

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By that definition, I'm a casual. \○/

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Please don't use disabilities and disorders as reasons to set limits for anything. Most people with either don't like that kind of association in the first place from my experience, myself included. Actually people overcoming their supposed handicaps is a thing.

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I'm not saying that having a disability neccesarily prevents you from completing content, I'm saying its understandable if it's a reason it does. Different disabilities have different effects on a persons gameplay. for instance a color blind person can still compensate for their inability to see some visual cues, but someone with only one hand may have more trouble.

I'm not going to go find the person who posted a video of him playing with his feet due to disability on these forums but its out there. Very inspirational and he played extremely well. Makes you wonder how long he spent to adapt to be able to play that well.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

I'm not going to go find the person who posted a video of him playing with his feet due to disability on these forums but its out there. Very inspirational and he played extremely well. Makes you wonder how long he spent to adapt to be able to play that well.

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There are very many stories/videos/articles/examples of people overcoming their "disability" to be superb gamers. And before someone says "Why is disabilities in quotations?!", the reason for that is because those people don't see it as a shortcoming most of the time, but more of a challenge to better themselves.

One story I recently read, while not for FFXIV, is for something that needs LOTS of communication. In Destiny 2 the Leviathan raid has parts where you HAVE to talk to each other to get past certain parts(in the gauntlet section the runners say which hole has light around it, and the people outside shoot the triangles NOT called; for the final boss you need to call out three symbols and kill an enemy floating above the fourth - things like that). Apparently a completely deaf team beat the raid(didn't go into specifics of how, but that's 6 people who are so in-sync - probably in the same room also to check screens - who can't hear each other).

So, it's completely possible that people will adapt and overcome whatever "shortcomings" they have to, quite likely, be better than most people who don't have that disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

It's a dramatically harder fight than any story trial before it. if you did it at launch, at around i300, it was a lot tougher than if you did it weeks or months later once people were gearing past it.

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I dont know but i did royal menagerie on 3rd day of the early-accese of SB with ilvl 280-290 w/o my last 2 job quest on my whm. It took me 1 hour of wipe to cleare it on first try. o.o
Was it rly that hard or that group was just too good? lol

There just needs to be more midcore content, tbh. There isn't much to do in the middle. The content space between easy and hardest is almost nonexistent for PvE at the moment. Savage isn't midcore content; savage 1 and 2 aren't a part of their own content cluster. They're a part of Savage Omega just like 3 and 4. It's really all one entity, the rewards and progression are all tied in together. You can't finish the progression if you don't do 3 and 4. It's not midcore content, it's simply the easiest part of a hardcore raid tier. Wouldn't it sound strange if I said the starting area in a Dark Souls game is for casual players and the later area is for hardcore players, when in reality, you have to do both if you want to finish the game?

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Some people believe that the way to solve that problem is to force people to team up for more things or make content harder, but that's just what drives the casuals (who make up the bulk of the population) away.

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I just miss the days when people would join a DF run and chat while clearing content. Lately I just get people who are mute or rather rude.

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Originally Posted by Levy9

There just needs to be more midcore content, tbh. There isn't much to do in the middle.

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Can't say I disagree with this. But I've got to go devil's advocate so you understand what's actually going on.

The fact that you and I are posting on the forums means we're already a bit ahead of the curve. You probably do as I do and keep up with forum stuff to see which way meta's tend to go, what changes are coming down the road, and to see others' opinions to see a different take on how to do things.

We're not the average player. You might think of yourself as normal, maybe even somewhat on the lower end of the spectrum (not suggesting you actually do, just being rhetorical). But that is because of whom you choose to surround yourself with. You're likely a bit better at the game then you think in some cases.

Anyway, the point here is. You have the MSQ. Not just 60-70, but ARR and HW too. That is the baseline. That's also about 80% of the game. You've got another 15% which is the stuff you do outside the MSQ like extremes and raids. Then you have the final 5% of the game with savage. You're requesting that 15% to be a bit wider. Maybe even blend some stuff with the top 5% without going into it.

As I said. I'm not going to disagree with that. I'd like it too.

But what about the other 80%? Where the average player usually resides? Unfortunately they outnumber us, by a lot. That's how marketing is going to look at it. They're going to wonder why alot of time developing an update is devoted to content that less than a quarter of the player base will ever see. Its one of the biggest issues I have with MMORPGs. I'd love to see a game that focused on the endgame over the leveling game. But it'll never exist.

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Originally Posted by Levy9

There just needs to be more midcore content, tbh. There isn't much to do in the middle.

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I really hope Eureka addresses this,

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

There is also the failure to see that there is a middle ground in terms of difficult: take some of the posts in this thread and others, where people claim that anyone asking for “harder” or “more engaging” content are automatically demanding that it be “Savage tier.” There is a middle ground between “easy mode/Baby’s First MMO” and “savage”. Making content “more engaging” is not going to “scare away” the casual players.

“Casual” means people that play this game infrequently or on a more casual basis: perhaps a couple hours a day/couple days a week, or the like. “Casual” does not mean “faceroll easy” or “lazy”, yet it tends to be used that way.

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I don't think there needs to be a middle ground as you call it, when different difficulties of said content exist.
As for defining casual, its so broad and varying that your attempt to categorise it falls way short.

I am concerned that the game is gradually giving out less and less content for the casuals (for instance, this is the very first time we've had a previous patch's dungeons remain in our EX roulette because even though we went down to a Duty Coin Flip for our expert "roulette" in 3.x, you really can't make a roulette out of 1 dungeon) and worry about it potentially being because too much focus is placed upon fights like Ultimate coil, which a scant few of the playerbase are even going to be good enough to complete while it is still relevant.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

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Savage isn't midcore content; savage 1 and 2 aren't a part of their own content cluster. They're a part of Savage Omega just like 3 and 4. It's really all one entity, the rewards and progression are all tied in together.

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The devs literally consider the first two raids to be on a separate tier from the second two in each tier. It's definitely been like this since Gordias, and it's arguably been like this for most of Coil too if you ignore Turn 3 (which is more of an interlude than a legitimate raid, no loot and all). It's really evident if you look at each of the fights and which has been the most problematic and/or mechanic heavy (A3S being perhaps the most infamous example, with T7S being perhaps the one notable subervsion, many citing it as harder than the rest despite being the second raid of four)

They've also billed Shinryu EX as being a fight they recommend specifically for those who can consistently beat O1S and O2S but are struggling to complete O3S, which is more admission on their part that a divide exists at that particular point in raid clusters.

My definition of casual and I consider myself one most of the time except lately.

• Play in short 30min -3 hour spurts
• Doesn't bother looking up game info or desire to be a perfectionist
• Fun, fun before perfect clear or server first(In one dungeon after 1 bad pull, tank says god I hate dps and leaves, Mr. Serious face?)
• Drifts from game to game whichever feels more fun in that moment

There are some other things that mean casual to me but those are more debatable. Like there is not really a right word for someone who prefers hard or easy content, but a casual doesn't want to be a professor of mathematics or view 100 videos on how to become a god at a class, they might still be good with less studying. An elitist is someone who studies their game to the tee, plays rather damn well, but loves criticizing other who do not game the same way.

For me midcore is someone who has a good amount of time to play but not all day save for a binge day or two every now and then. They do like being knowledgeable on game systems, but not necessarily masters. Want a meaningful means of progression without needing to live in the game.

Hardcore to me means you study every nuance of the game, play for hours upon hours, and strive for perpetual progression.

Like I said, I don't even call raider lifers in particular hardcore unless they do raids all the time, but are more that spectrum of players who demand super challenging content. Not elitist until they begin critiquing everyone else with or without someone asking for tips.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

I'm not going to go find the person who posted a video of him playing with his feet due to disability on these forums but its out there. Very inspirational and he played extremely well. Makes you wonder how long he spent to adapt to be able to play that well.

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You don't see the disabled people who can't play video games at all, because they don't make youtube videos about it that go viral due to flattering people's sense of how accessible their game is. The guy who plays FFXIV with his feet is a huge outlier, who in part probably made it his way of coping with his disability and creating an identity and a purpose out of it. That shouldn't be used in the sense that anyone can do it, any more than a disabled person running in a marathon means anyone can train to run in a marathon.

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There is also the failure to see that there is a middle ground in terms of difficult: take some of the posts in this thread and others, where people claim that anyone asking for “harder” or “more engaging” content are automatically demanding that it be “Savage tier.” There is a middle ground between “easy mode/Baby’s First MMO” and “savage”. Making content “more engaging” is not going to “scare away” the casual players.

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We have that. It's called the EX Primals, and everyone seems to hate them. What people don't want is the casual side becoming more like them. If you think ex roulette is bad now, imagine when you queued for it, it would be like your average pickup primal group. Skip Soar or disband.

People don't seem to get that harder content doesn't mean you still get to clear it 95% of the time apart from that one random ice mage.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

You don't see the disabled people who can't play video games at all, because they don't make youtube videos about it that go viral due to flattering people's sense of how accessible their game is. The guy who plays FFXIV with his feet is a huge outlier, who in part probably made it his way of coping with his disability and creating an identity and a purpose out of it. That shouldn't be used in the sense that anyone can do it, any more than a disabled person running in a marathon means anyone can train to run in a marathon.

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You're missing the forest for the trees. You cannot design content around the assumption people will have disabilities or handicaps lest it all stagnates. Per your example, are we going to start making marathons easier because some people are physically incapable of running them? Furthermore, just become a disabled person can't necessarily do something doesn't mean they expect the world to bend over for them. In fact, very few actually want that. They want to persevere in their own way not have their hands held.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

We have that. It's called the EX Primals, and everyone seems to hate them. What people don't want is the casual side becoming more like them. If you think ex roulette is bad now, imagine when you queued for it, it would be like your average pickup primal group. Skip Soar or disband.

People don't seem to get that harder content doesn't mean you still get to clear it 95% of the time apart from that one random ice mage.

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People don't hate them. Raiders simply how they have steadily been neutered. Has it ever occurred to you that constant reduction in difficulty contributes to players apathy; i.e., they don't improve because everything keeps getting easier. Skip Soar memes were born because the DPS check was so pitiful, a proper opener with a standard comp should be more than enough. It's not asking much for people to know their job. Zurvan proved just how few people actually know a proper rotation, or can't be bothered to learn. If this game instilled a better difficulty curve, you would likely see less of this as players would continuously reach a reasonable wall relative to their current skill sets they needs overcome. Instead, we see content that dies with barely an effort put forth juxtaposed with content that wipes the raid for even one error. Zurvan epitomized it better than any. Skip Soar and the entire fight breaks—to the point he literally does nothing of note for 50% of his HP. Don't Skip Soar and people can't handle a mechanic that isn't even difficult to begin with. Now if the normal node better prepared players, maybe this gets avoided.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

They've also billed Shinryu EX as being a fight they recommend specifically for those who can consistently beat O1S and O2S but are struggling to complete O3S, which is more admission on their part that a divide exists at that particular point in raid clusters.

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Considering on my main class I can kill the SSS O4s Dummy with 12 seconds remaining, and still have 1% on the shinryu ex dummy when time runs out, Shinryu Ex seems to require MORE dps than O4s.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

You don't see the disabled people who can't play video games at all, because they don't make youtube videos about it that go viral due to flattering people's sense of how accessible their game is. The guy who plays FFXIV with his feet is a huge outlier, who in part probably made it his way of coping with his disability and creating an identity and a purpose out of it. That shouldn't be used in the sense that anyone can do it, any more than a disabled person running in a marathon means anyone can train to run in a marathon.

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Even your analogies here are flawed. Any very HEALTHY person can train to run in a marathon. and Any person who has the desire and patience to clear can clear the content in this game, provided they are also healthy in the ways which matter for computer games.

Also fun before clear should not be unique to the casual player mentality. Fun before clear needs to be embraced by all, clear before fun is why we have toxic assholes in raiding.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

YPeople don't hate them. Raiders simply how they have steadily been neutered. Has it ever occurred to you that constant reduction in difficulty contributes to players apathy.

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No, sigh it doesn't work that way. You are assuming all players treat the game like you would.

Let me put it this way. Let's assume instead of royal menagerie, the last fight was slightly harder than Susano EX. I don't think I'd be wrong in thinking you'd find this good, and that you believe players would rise to beat it, and then go on. But I think players would probably go through trying to beat it, a lot would fail or get sick of it, and a lot more would realize that after the week or two it took to beat him in PUG that the rest of the game would probably be even harder, and ditch endgame entirely. It's not apathy in that sense...it's that they don't find the process of raid-level optimization fun, nor the whole "whale on a fifteen minute fight for dozens of tries wiping constantly until you beat it or bust." idea that endgame is in this game.

This is what I meant by savageification...if farming tomes was like farming Zurvan, you wouldn't get a good playerbase. You'd get a lot of people at ilvl 320 not farming tomes. You can't really assume everyone wants to rise to the challenge and enjoys this game's hard content.

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Considering on my main class I can kill the SSS O4s Dummy with 12 seconds remaining, and still have 1% on the shinryu ex dummy when time runs out, Shinryu Ex seems to require MORE dps than O4s.

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*shrug* I don't bother with SSS dummies, they're pretty inaccurate representations of how actual fights with actual mechanics go anyway. Test your rotations and your DPS on them if you want, sure, but they're not really helpful for determining how well you'd be able to both handle a fight's mechanics + still contribute the expected level of DPS despite those mechanics... since there's no mechanics.

Even something as simple as a mob turning around to use an attack on one of your healers can considered a DPS-hampering mechanic, as if you don't expect it coming you can whiff a positional because of it. That's a sort of thing that will only come with fight knowledge and practice, not dummies.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

*shrug* I don't bother with SSS dummies, they're pretty inaccurate representations of how actual fights with actual mechanics go anyway. Test your rotations and your DPS on them if you want, sure, but they're not really helpful for determining how well you'd be able to both handle a fight's mechanics + still contribute the expected level of DPS despite those mechanics... since there's no mechanics.

Even something as simple as a mob turning around to use an attack on one of your healers can considered a DPS-hampering mechanic, as if you don't expect it coming you can whiff a positional because of it. That's a sort of thing that will only come with fight knowledge and practice, not dummies.

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I know all that but they're designed to show you if you have the dps required for a fight provided you do mechanics, and as such are given HP based on the dps a fight requires.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Considering on my main class I can kill the SSS O4s Dummy with 12 seconds remaining, and still have 1% on the shinryu ex dummy when time runs out, Shinryu Ex seems to require MORE dps than O4s.

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This is strange, Shinryu EX dummy has more HP than O4S for tanks only.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

This is strange, Shinryu EX dummy has more HP than O4S for tanks only.

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As someone who has never tanked either feel free to take this with a grain of salt but I have a friend who I've done Shinryu with a few times who vastly prefers tanking it and outright refuses to heal it. I think Shinryu is a bit softer on tanks (comparatively) because if you think about it other than Ak Morn/Tera Slash there really isn't even a reason to enter tank stance.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I am concerned that the game is gradually giving out less and less content for the casuals

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I'd say the reason for this is because 1-70 MSQ and regular quest plus all four man dungeons up to and including expert roulette are for the base tier of player. And that there just might be more people on average wishing to whet their appetites for something tougher.

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The devs literally consider the first two raids to be on a separate tier from the second two in each tier.

They've also billed Shinryu EX as being a fight they recommend specifically for those who can consistently beat O1S and O2S but are struggling to complete O3S, which is more admission on their part that a divide exists at that particular point in raid clusters.

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I don't see an issue here, nor anything weird or odd. When Plane of Time was available for Everquest, It had four tiers of varying difficulty. Naxx10/25 in WoW also had varying tiers, even gear would be higher ilvl towards the end than at the beginning. It allows players to sort of pick and choose their difficulty, they don't have to feel they're stuck at one throughout.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

My definition of casual and I consider myself one most of the time except lately.

For me midcore is someone who has a good amount of time to play but not all day save for a binge day or two every now and then.

Hardcore to me means you study every nuance of the game, play for hours upon hours, and strive for perpetual progression.

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To be honest, I lump all three together. There's a class before what you call 'casual'. That just can't 'get' the game. They'll keyboard turn, click abilities, and not understand class nuances. Stuff like using Jolt to Dualcast a white/black spell, or doing a job quest and running Stone Vigil as a Conjurer. Then after that is people who understand the basics of the game, with varying degrees of desire or will to do better or not.

Using you as an example, you said you consider yourself casual.. usually. What happened there? You didn't get smarter, you were smart before. You didn't simply have an epiphany. It was simple, you wanted to test it out, try your limits. Maybe at a nice little pace. But I'd assume you completed some goals you set for yourself (congratulations in that case by the way). And I'll go so far to say if you wanted to, you could do Omega V4 Savage. IF you wanted, as in your skill in the game isn't holding you back.

Not wanting to do content doesn't make someone worse at the game than someone who does. Elitists like to tell us otherwise. Its not true. Ironically, people like you are probably heads and tails above elitists who trash on others because they need people to be good enough to carry said elitist. And no one has a right to judge one who doesn't want to do the harder stuff.

As you pointed out, it takes a bit of coordination that some of us simply don't wish to engage in. Nothing wrong with that, we all play the game how we want as much as we want. I'm glad you found a pace that works. I wish everyone could, but many hold themselves back due to preconceptions.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Please don't use disabilities and disorders as reasons to set limits for anything. Most people with either don't like that kind of association in the first place from my experience, myself included. Actually people overcoming their supposed handicaps is a thing. The only limit you have is the one you set for yourself. All through heavensward and some of 2.0, I didn't raid cause I have essential tremor in my hands, arms, and neck and its made worse by high concentration and situation intensity. Keyboard and mouse was way to aggravating, eventually plugged a PS4 controller into my computer... Fast forward to today, currently tanking for a casual group with some friends in it and we are progressing o3s.

I can appreciate a discussion of keeping the dungeon content at current difficulty but using handicaps and disorders as the means to an end is the wrong way to go about it.

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That's true. Though I'm not sure if there's much I can do about my reflexes/reaction time gradually getting worse as time goes on. I've almost always used a controller on games that support them, or using a program for those that don't. Raids/Savage, in general, is just something that never really appealed to me. I have LotA/ST to at least still get some verity/creation in the case I don't feel up to doing Expert that day.

Even though some things might annoy me, I'm fine with how the dungeons currently are. I guess it's just how things will play out in the future. I'm sure if I just practiced a bit more, I could do a bit better. Just need to not be as lazy. lol

I didn't add anything about my play time on the last post, since it was long enough. For the most part, it's usually one or two roulettes, then doing ARR/HW/SB hunts and beast tribes. Gathering and crafting is after that, depending on how I feel. Not quite sure if that would still fall under casual or not. Speaking of, I need to start working on those again.

Anyway, yeah. I don't want things to be like: "Push X to win the dungeon/raid!" If I want to do that content, then I should just step up to practice and such.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

As someone who has never tanked either feel free to take this with a grain of salt but I have a friend who I've done Shinryu with a few times who vastly prefers tanking it and outright refuses to heal it. I think Shinryu is a bit softer on tanks (comparatively) because if you think about it other than Ak Morn/Tera Slash there really isn't even a reason to enter tank stance.

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Not only that, O4S requires more enmity management since it restes throughout the encounter.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

People seem to fail to recognize that casual players make up the bulk of FFX!V's subscription funding.

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But being casual does not mean that you can just roll on your keyboard and get carried all day. I mean people have a different way to see difficulty but most of the dungeons in this game are really straightforward and most of them are not that hard. Yet some people even fail those because they cant even do the DPS or healing check. IMO you dont need to raid and pump out great DPS to be a good player. Just doing mechanics right and at least doing your part in group content should be enough. So just because most are casual does not mean that the skill level needs to be quite low. I mean who is going to carry those that are truly lazy if nobody would at least care a bit about the skill?