RDM: Does it get fun at 70?

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Originally Posted by Tzain

After hitting 66 I wanted to ask something about Red Mage and this seems one of the ...

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It is just used to replace Jolt II when it is up and verfire and verstone are not. Many feel it is button bloat, including myself, but it is what it is right now. I would keep it on your bar and use it when verfire or verstone are not up.

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Originally Posted by Draxxion

It is just used to replace Jolt II when it is up and verfire and verstone are not. Many feel it is button bloat, including myself, but it is what it is right now. I would keep it on your bar and use it when verfire or verstone are not up.

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Yeah, that much was obvious. Good to know I'm not missing some super-secret-endgame-strat though and I'm not alone on the button bloat thing.

I mean, if they can have Scatter proc into Enhanced Scatter, I'd imagine they could do the same thing for Jolt II > Impact. Easy solution, or at least one would think.

Didn't read the rest of the thread, but for me the novelty of RDM wore off extremely fast. And to answer your question, no it's basically the same at 70 as it was at 60, just with Verflare/Verholy so you build your mana gauges back faster.

RDM is fun for a while until you realize there is absolutely no change from 50-70, like at all, its braindead easy to pump out decent damage and its surprisingly boring, I mean, even their AoE rotation is dull.

I like the class fine, but I prefer playing literally anything else.

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Originally Posted by Tzain

Am I the only one who feels that 'Impact' is a (no offense meant) waste of an ability?
The potency is only a touch above Jolt II.

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No, you're not going to offend anyone and anyone who gets offended by that are not worth the time.

It's basically Jolt III after your every Jolt II.

Basically use this

/macroicon "Jolt"
/ac "Impact"
/ac "Jolt"

And forget about it.
Throw Impact on a non-bind bar for visibility but you can often than not ignore it.

Edit:


/macroicon "Jolt"
/merror off
/ac "Impact"
/ac "Jolt"

Iirc this will also remove the error associated with trying to cast something that isn't available to you atm.

Yeah, Impact feels like they didn't know what to design. Although I do appreciate that they didn't design a new layer of complexity just for the sake of adding a new skill. The main draw of RDM for me is the simplicity, and I would hate it if Impact was instead designed to be a VerEnochian.

I know that this is a pretty old thread, but I'd like to give my answer

The job quest and the job itself isn't that fun compared to SAM and WHM (jobs I took so far) but it's convenient if you ever need to work alone and no healers nearby can help.

And no, I won't call RDM great or godly but it's really convenient.

Might as well piggyback on the necro :/

I'm personally having a whale of a time at lv 70, but I think it's moreso because my FC has a lot of people who are only really just starting out, so I'm a versatile ally to them. Also I'm able to solo Deep Dungeon now that my Aetherpool stats are in the 90's.

I'm a pretty casual player though, so that might be why I enjoy it so much.

RDM has a pretty easy rotation, the ability to serve as a backup healer/emergency rezbot (I've had to main heal a dungeon boss when the healer went down and it was pre-Verraise levels), and mobility that BLMs and SMNs can only dream of. That said there is basically zero depth to the class, it needs an animation overhaul (I personally like the Verholy animation but Verflare definitely needs work) and has some skills that just aren't that interesting.

Recently Redmage is mostly Rezmage in higher content.
It's picked for progression cause of its op raise ability, but once a group can clear, they don't need that anymore. Rdm dps is pretty low (it should be though considering all the utility its got,could still be just a tad higher) so they get replaced once chain raises are no longer beneficial.

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Originally Posted by Braneric

RDM has a pretty easy rotation, the ability to serve as a backup healer/emergency rezbot (I've had to main heal a dungeon boss when the healer went down and it was pre-Verraise levels), and mobility that BLMs and SMNs can only dream of. That said there is basically zero depth to the class, it needs an animation overhaul (I personally like the Verholy animation but Verflare definitely needs work) and has some skills that just aren't that interesting.

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SMN actually has the highest and least penalized mobility as of 4.1

as long as you remember to cast veraise if your healer dies...

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Originally Posted by MercuryAcetylene

as long as you remember to cast veraise if your healer dies...

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Healers need to adjust. Or the RDM just needs to have some sort of macro for that...and yes, I do have one of those macros(just made last night though).

As for whether it gets fun or not, that is up to your definition of fun. Some people find it fun to watch twitch streams, I personally find those so boring I would rather watch grass grow. I do enjoy my RDM, but I also find some of the other classes(DRK, NIN, AST, and DRG primarily) to be fun as well.

Well.. Since my thread got raised from death lol I gave up on RDM long ago ^^ I'm playing SMN atm while lvling AST (which is tons of fun)

Thanks for the replies ^^

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Originally Posted by Avatre

Healers need to adjust. Or the RDM just needs to have some sort of macro for that...and yes, I do have one of those macros(just made last night though).

As for whether it gets fun or not, that is up to your definition of fun

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The sooner people on the internet and heck people in general learn this simple rule the better. And let me say that I am proud to see that people on this form seem to get this concept. Even ones that don't agree with OP seem to get it and I can't tell you how much that restores my faith in the human race.

As to the actual topic I bought the Stormblood and Resubed just for a RDM and am currently working to level up enough to be able to unlock it. I think it looks like a fun class.

I think it will be the perfect balance to the Ninja class. Ninja sounds complex and I don't mind that but it will be nice to balance the complex class out with a simple class :).

I started couple of weeks ago and planned to main RDM, even tho I heard it was too easy and I know i normally like challenging roles I decided to go for it just cause I like the style of the class.
Sadly I realized very quickly that it's too simple and bland for me and switched over to SMN.

I have a RDM that I was playing around with when I unlocked it and during that time I enjoyed it but quit for a few months came back and now I'm just not a fan of the RDM it is way to simple for me and I've been going between Ninja and Scholar

Still haven't played RDM personally but let's observe a moment of silence for all the RDM job crystals that will not or are not being used. *bows head silently*

Now let's also observe a moment of thanks for having something as awesome a job crystal system and not having to create a whole other character just to find out the new job/class sucks.

I personally am going to still try red mage and SAM. And can I just close again with how awesome that is I can have as many jobs/classes as I want on one character and can change said job/class on the fly?

I actually love RDM, it has a nice rhythm to it, and I prefer the simplicity (when you suffer latency, things with double CDs or ninja mudras are just exercises in frustration). I haven't had as much fun with a job since ARR.

For me RDM is, just like SAM, fun at the beginning and also a while on 70 but both classes get boring pretty fast.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Yeah, Impact feels like they didn't know what to design. Although I do appreciate that they didn't design a new layer of complexity just for the sake of adding a new skill. The main draw of RDM for me is the simplicity, and I would hate it if Impact was instead designed to be a VerEnochian.

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Um...its actually very useful.

You keep impact in reserve for when Verfire or Verstone doesn't proc to keep your potency up. It has the same potency as those spells, which is 30 more then Jolt 2. Your main goal as RDM is to try and use the stock Jolt as little as possible, and Impact adds a very nice tool that helps keep your damage up.

It stays... Simple. Which is fun for me. Good damage and little complexity.







fun

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Originally Posted by matthatter56

The sooner people on the internet and heck people in general learn this simple rule the better. And let me say that I am proud to see that people on this form seem to get this concept. Even ones that don't agree with OP seem to get it and I can't tell you how much that restores my faith in the human race.

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discussions about endgame will be very disgusting for you tho... im on your side as well everybody defines his own fun and should play the cls he/she enjoys the most. Actually as far as people step to endgame content this "simple rule" is hardly attacked by dps/utility statistics and world firsts meta-comps -> f.e kicking RDMs waaaaay out of the window after progression/training... or locking out certain cls' in pf in general etc. Never understood that as well but sadly the truth with every major update... : /

so keep that simple rule as long as you can : 3

Short Answer: No
Long Answer: The base rotation stays the same regardless of level. Apart from some oGCD and utility skills along the way to 70, nothing fundamentally changes with RDM. As an aside, once you unlock the ability to rez, everyone will be on your ass to rez. Be it 1 rez or 100, you will be asked to rez whenever someone dies and to hell with your DPS and your rotation. NOW REZ ME!!!!

Personally, I love Red Mage. I like the concept, and the melee/ranged aspect of the job, and I enjoy being able to provide utility. I do think the DPS output should be boosted slightly in order to make the job more viable for endgame content, and I'd very much like another AoE because Twelve know spamming Scatter endlessly is kind of tedious. My other main is Bard, and after pressing every button on my three hotbars throughout a raid (okay, I'm exaggerating slightly), it's nice to have a less...busy job to play for a while.

Now that I have both a level 70 RDM and SMN/SCH I would highly recommend having more the one job at 70. No one job is going to ingaging enough every day to keep you playing it. Switch it up and it will help keep thinks fresh and interesting.

When I play Black Mage or Summoner I feel I’m bringing power to a group and feel effective. When I play Red Mage I feel quite weak. VerAero, fire and thunder just don’t feel as strong. :)

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Um...its actually very useful.

You keep impact in reserve for when Verfire or Verstone doesn't proc to keep your potency up. It has the same potency as those spells, which is 30 more then Jolt 2. Your main goal as RDM is to try and use the stock Jolt as little as possible, and Impact adds a very nice tool that helps keep your damage up.

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You seem to be confusing the 'design' of impact with the 'implementation' of impact.
Impact works exactly as designed, exactly as you said. So you are speaking of the 'implementation'.
Zfz is speaking on the design itself. The 'Why' of the skill, if you will.
And as a design, Impact is a head scratcher.

No. The class is basically the same from 50 onward. It's very shallow. 60 and 70 are virtually interchangable.

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Originally Posted by TheFanciestBard

No. The class is basically the same from 50 onward. It's very shallow. 60 and 70 are virtually interchangable.

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Shallow compared to what?
I only ask because after I leveled Red and White I went back to Black Mage. So far I haven't really seen the 'complexity' that people mentioned. Did I just pick out the least complex ones by accident?

Yes actually. It's not only about complexity of rotation it's the difference between a fight and a dummy.
BLM has one of the simplest rotations all skills considered. But it's one of the most difficult to use in a raid environment because it needs perfect conditions to do well, because of the timers and the order of things. In short : simple and elegant loop, but put sand in the gears, mess a spell, and...

Red mage : even more simple than BLM (who has less skills BUT a rotation). Here on RDM, really simple to keep track of your jauges no matter the environment. You have 4-5 base spells with no Dots to track, no timers, and it's just a metaphorical clockwork (neutral or proc - wind - neutral or proc - thunder - repeat until 80/80 or 40/40 if manafication up). You have ONE buff, that is on a long timer so buff optimization is not the hardest part.
The thing is : optimisation on RDM is a thing, and I don't master it, BUT basic rotation does a really decent job. Basic rotation on some other classes, doesn't work out very well.

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Originally Posted by Karshan

Yes actually. It's not only about complexity of rotation it's the difference between a fight and a dummy.

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Makes sense to me and it lines up with what I've seen (also describes why Red Mage is more fun for me than Black Mage I think)
But as comparative value, which job would you consider moderately complex/most complex?

First of all, when I'm talking difficulty, I'm talking reaching above 5k DPS. Any job is easy if improperly done (for instance a poorly handled SMN is even easier than RDM, less core skills).

Basically to me, sources of "difficulty" can be, from hardest to easiest :
- uptime and mechanics
- choice (whether in jauge filling, or order of skills, or delay of skills...)
- timers
- pets (because of clunkiness)
- dots
Because in a fight with a lot to focus on, those require surveillance and brain ressources and you won't do well in progress.

Everyone is concerned by n°1 so no real difference here (some are however more or less punished on that account)

Other 4 are why I don't associate RDM with complexity : RDM has only one of the four. But the worst : choice, regarding jauge filling. Except a lot of time, it's not true. You know what skill to use. And alternatives to the tic-tac-tic-tac are scarce, and belong to optimisation. So he even only gets half a point.

As for other jobs, I'd say there are several kind of approaches for each job, that I wouldn't dare classify (like that job is more difficult than that job, etc won't do that):

- The "set in stone rotation" : easy to see through on a dummy, come a real fight that's when you measure difficulty. It takes real ability to adapt, learning the fights, and your uptime is EVERYTHING (I know always be casting, but it hurts you even more than others). Not being able to put some skills is a deal breaker.
ex : DRG, BLM

- The "priority rotations" : you have timers, and combos, but can manage flexibility and building the jauge is not the worst part of the job. Be sure to keep up your timers
ex : NIN (core), SAM, MNK (core - see also below)

- The "build & burst rotations" : you have a burst. On a precise cooldown. Everything you do, everything you use, must lead you to have a precise set of skills available right on time, and usually they are locked behind your gauge management. You have room for uptime comfort, but oh so little, and if you mess up the build up and are not ready for the burst, you mess up big time.
ex : NIN (oGCDs, jauge spending) MCH, SMN (Bahamut)

- The "control room what have I forgotten again ?" : working in alternate big phases, where you fill up your jauges, but most importantly make sure you used all the right oGCDs in the right order, use all your procs, and left none of your several oGCDs untouched. In progression when you are focused on mechanics and have trouble multi tasking : a nightmare. Becomes ok with a lot (A LOT) of practice so the skill checking / timer following becomes muscle memory.
ex : BRD, SMN

MNK is apart : you either maintain GL3 or you seppuku