The rising 2017 - Discrimination

I doubt people with dyslexia have trouble counting to eight, and again, this is a puzzle. Not something you have to solve within a time limit, it's not impossible for these people to complete on their own if they stop and think about it instead of complaining on how it isn't handed to them on a silver platter.

I didn't even say it was easy, but if you're unable to grab a notepad (digital or physical) and take notes, dyslexia isn't the problem

Games (and the puzzles in them) have been becoming so much easier over the years, If we keep making things easier it'll leave us with a movie, oh wait, the blind can't see so it'll leave us with just audio, oh wait, some can't hear. (do you get my point?)

While I agree the devs should keep conditions like this in mind, you can't be expected to pander to everyone, trying to appease everyone will leave many if not most unsatisfied.

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

*snip*

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Your posts have more buzzwords than Monk has ppositionals

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

Why are you acting like SE personally researched your limitations and made an event that requires MENSA-levels of intellect and MacGyver levels of ingenuity just to stick it to you?

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I never once said anything like this - I asked why there wasn't a system in place

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

Just as an example, I'm deeply phobic of being out at a sea. Especially of going underwater. I was sweating and nervous and on the verge of freaking out for the entire section that we needed to be underwater in the Ruby Sea.

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Here is my issue with this - you were not in a real situation where your issues were a problem - the Ruby sea isnt a real place - i am asking SE why there was not a system in place for people with real disabilities in real situation.

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Originally Posted by Radicaledward124

Ok ok ok here's the thing I have dyslexia

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You have Dyslexia not the both, so you didn't have as much trouble as some.

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Originally Posted by Radicaledward124

I have an intense fear of sharks and open ocean too, the first time I swam headfirst into one I screamed and jumped away from my desk.

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Again issue - you were at a desk the whole time - the situation was not a real situation.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Actually, no it isn't.

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It is actually,

So the guy with sea phobia being afraid of game ocean isnt a real problem but you, a dyslexic person, not competing a puzzle in that very same game is a real problem?


If you want people to take your issue seriously please dont try to call THEIR situations/suggestions unreal or not serious...

You also were at your desk completing a single puzzle so by your own standards that was not a real situation. Just saying!

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

Here is my issue with this - you were not in a real situation where your issues were a problem - the Ruby sea isnt a real place - i am asking SE why there was not a system in place for people with real disabilities in real situation.

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I'm really not sure what your aim is here. Problems are problems, no matter who has them or what form they take. Yes I know it's not real. That's why I was able to finish it at all. But it took extra effort on my part that the vast majority of people aren't even aware of. To them, it's nothing to dive underwater in a video game. I couldn't play Bioshock. I struggled with the short segments in XIV. Why are my issues not valid while yours are? Because they're not directly related to your exact circumstances? That's a shocking lack of empathy coming from someone who wants pity and understanding for having two disabilities that prevent them from enjoying part of a seasonal event.

If you're trying some complicated strategy of "be a troll to turn people against others with legitimate issues and also get some attention on the XIV forums"... I guess it's working? But your dismissive and antagonistic attitude towards any situation that does not perfectly mirror your own is appalling. There are people ITT who have similar problems to you and worked to overcome them instead of whining that the devs didn't take their unique circumstances they had no way of knowing about into account when making a silly seasonal quest. All this and you haven't even offered any solutions either, just attacked everyone who replied and bemoaned how awful it is that no one understands your special problems. Don't be surprised if this thread doesn't even get mentioned in passing to the devs because of that.

But this event treats everyone equally.
Everyone has to do the maze.
Everyone has to do the number letter riddle.
Everyone is treated the same.
Noone gets a special treatment we are all the same.

Equality is when noone gets special treatment.
If everyone gets a special treatment it would be equal to but only if everyone gets the same special treatment.

Okay, what do you suggest Square does about this issue without violating the integrity of the puzzle itself?

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Okay, what do you suggest Square does about this issue without violating the integrity of the puzzle itself?

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Well for other disabilities there are systems in place - all i am saying is there should have been for this one - possibly color co-ordinate it matching numbers, letters and colors - would have made it easier. There are a lot of solutions for this issue for people with the same disability as myself - but none of these were implemented - that is my issue, i just want to know why they were not. And it would not have been violating the integrity of the puzzle itself at all.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

I'm really not sure what your aim is here. Problems are problems, no matter who has them or what form they take. Yes I know it's not real.

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Yeah you are right your situation was not real - you were not forced to go to a REAL sea - I had to do an event or try to do an event which made me face my REAL disability - Also Problem, mine is a real disability not a fear. I understand you have a fear but it isn't a medically recognized disability so no matter how much you want the situations to be the same they wont be.

Also to be honest I'm not sure what your aim is all you have done is say how my disability is the same as a Fear when it isn't - a fear you can possibly get over through therapy - a disability is there for life. Also i am not attacking people - i am just making a point, and saying that a certain disability which is easy to cater for was not catered for and the event was unnecessarily hard for people who have that disability.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

But this event treats everyone equally.Everyone has to do the maze.Everyone has to do the number letter riddle.Everyone is treated the same.

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right here is my issue with this - there are systems in place for people with other disabilities such as sight disabilities hearing disabilities - there wasn't anything in place for people with the same type of disability as me - I am asking why and if they could be included in future - that's all. I havent said give people special treatment at all - i am asking that a system be put in place for this kind of disability like there is for a lot of other disabilities.

Come on guys. I also have dyslexia all I did was out the letters in fc chat and in seconds it was solved also the numbers correspond to the letter and in the same order even with dyslexia you can do thus easily

Come on guys. I also have dyslexia all I did was shout the letters in fc chat and in seconds it was solved also the numbers correspond to the letter and in the same order even with dyslexia you can do this easily

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Originally Posted by Vorlonshadow

Come on guys. I also have dyslexia all I did was shout the letters in fc chat and in seconds it was solved also the numbers correspond to the letter and in the same order even with dyslexia you can do this easily

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I am talking about both Dyslexia and Dyscalculia which means letters and numbers are the main issue - i understand you have Dyslexia and you have probably had difficulty with it at certain stages - but you have said you have dyslexia you don't have both. I am only saying that people with both disabilities should have a system to rely on, like many other disabilities do - Sigh disabilities - Hearing disabilities they are all catered too.

Like i said before maybe if a Color system was also put in place for this event so that people with both disabilities could match the letters, numbers and colors not just have to rely so heavily on the letters and numbers. All i am asking is why was there not something more in place.

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

I actually have a good point and again - You have NOT got this disability - and what is EASY for you is not EASY for people with Disabilities, seriously i am sure 3 other people told you the same thing earlier - why are you posting the exact same thing.

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Originally Posted by AmberMiyazaki

I have dyslexia and I found the puzzle to be quite easy, once you figure out the correlation between the two floors, if you have a disability don't whine every time something is hard. Figure it out, be smarter than everyone else

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There. YOU have been asked to stop, not me. Check it out again, please.

Only one person has pointed out how wrong I might be (even though I'm not), and I said the exact same thing because I opened the second post already warning that I was gonna reiterate what I already said. You can be dyslexic, which I respect and feel for you, and you can be a whiner.

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

Well for other disabilities there are systems in place - all i am saying is there should have been for this one - possibly color co-ordinate it matching numbers, letters and colors - would have made it easier. There are a lot of solutions for this issue for people with the same disability as myself - but none of these were implemented - that is my issue, i just want to know why they were not. And it would not have been violating the integrity of the puzzle itself at all.

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Okay, and this solution would not work for individuals suffering from complete color-blindness, which I believe a poster in this thread commented that they suffer from. It may also pose issues for individuals that have specific color-blindness. What about them, then? Your solution to cater to these two specific disabilities inherently makes things difficult for another subset of specific disabilities.

The accusation that this puzzle is discriminatory against individuals with dyslexia and/or dyscalculia is absurd. I am pretty close to legally blind. I struggled to read the small white print on gray background for some of the numbers and letters, but you don't see me coming here to demand SE cater to my disability. Instead, I spent a little extra time on the puzzle, and guess what? I got it done. There's no time limit on the time you have to complete the puzzle once you start it; use different techniques to make it easier on you, or, better yet, ask someone for help. This is a Massively Multiplayer Online game, and there are plenty of friendly people in-game that would have no issue helping you out. Heck, you could have made a thread on here or reddit with screenshots of the first and second floor and asked posters for help, saying that you were having issues telling the difference between some of the characters.

There's no shame asking individuals for help, whether you have a disability or not. There is shame in demanding a company cater to your specific disability though. There's nothing wrong with content being accessible and easy for all individuals, disabled or not. But it is downright nearly impossible to try and cater to all disabilities without excluding others (see what I said above about your solution to color-code the numbers and letters). There are people out there who have disabilities, and instead of playing the victim and demanding special treatment and/or sympathy, they embrace their disabilities for what they are, and find ways to live as close to normally as they possibly can.

Also, if you want to start demanding sympathy and specially treatment for your condition, you should probably refrain from trying to trivialize other's conditions. No one is more or less entitled to "special treatment" over others. What may seem "silly" to you (the individual's phobia of being underwater making The Ruby Sea particularly difficult for them) is not silly to another person. So stop trying to trivialize them. Phobias and extreme phobias are classified as valid medical and mental health conditions. Whether the trigger is simulated or real or whatever, doesn't make them any less real for someone who has them.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

There. YOU have been asked to stop, not me. Check it out again, please.

Only one person has pointed out how wrong I might be (even though I'm not),

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

I opened the second post already warning that I was gonna reiterate what I already said.

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honestly you just seem like one of them drunken bar fighters always looking for a fight.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

You can be dyslexic, which I respect and feel for you, and you can be a whiner.

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you have already been told What is easy for you is not easy for others - you have no disability at all why are you still commenting here and others have told you this as-well - you are wrong you have 0 knowledge of the disabilities i speak of why are you continuing to be aggressive towards me when you know nothing. Also if you felt for me then why would you say the puzzle was easy - for me it wasn't - you are very narrow minded towards certain degrees of disabilities and it shows.

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

you have no disability at all why are you still commenting here

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I also take a lot of issue with this sentence. Who are you to say that someone you don't know doesn't suffer from their own inner demons or their own disabilities? You don't know the people that post on here from Adam, so don't assume that people who disagree with you, or who claim the puzzle was easy, don't have disabilities. You don't know that, so don't assume.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Okay, and this solution would not work for individuals suffering from complete color-blindness.

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Thay have got systems in place already for this and that is a fact - and also there would be two other ways that that person would be able to get the correct answer by using the letters and the numbers - where as I and others with the same disability could use the colors - so yes it would work for everyone.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

shame in demanding a company cater to your specific disability though.

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I am sorry but The company caters for so many disabilities, i just want to know why this one was not catered for

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

the individual's phobia of being underwater making The Ruby Sea particularly difficult for them.

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That is a Phobia they are not a medical condition they are not a disability because of the fact that they can be cured. Disability can not be. i sympathize for him but it wasn't a real situation.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I also take a lot of issue with this sentence. Who are you to say that someone you don't know doesn't suffer from their own inner demons or their own disabilities? You don't know the people that post on here from Adam, so don't assume that people who disagree with you, or who claim the puzzle was easy, don't have disabilities. You don't know that, so don't assume.

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Well they are more than willing to comment on my own disabilities and all of these things you have listed that i have done these people have done themselves - so you might want to re-address this to them - or you can just pretend i am the bad guy - i don't care - honestly my point is still valid most of the people posting have no disability and 0 knowledge of the disabilities i am talking about

The people who do have disabilities like color blind are already catered for.

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

That is a Phobia they are not a medical condition they are not a disability because of the fact that they can be cured. Disability can not be. i sympathize for him but it wasn't a real situation.

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Are you familiar with the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders? Phobias are mental illnesses--mental disabilities--and they are still considered medical disabilities even if they are more of a psychological nature as opposed to a physical nature. Real situation or not, simulations are still more than capable of inducing and triggering the disorder. You can argue semantics if you want, but mental illnesses are still considered disabilities. They are not any more or any less more "important" or "real" than physical disabilities. Don't try to belittle another disability just because it doesn't match yours (or your personal definition of what a disability is), or because they can be "cured."

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

Well they are more than willing to comment on my own disabilities and all of these things you have listed that i have done these people have done themselves - so you might want to re-address this to them - or you can just pretend i am the bad guy - i don't care

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Considering that you keep insisting your disability is important enough to demand special treatment, even when others affected from the same disability have come here to report that they had absolutely no issues with the puzzle and that they do not consider it discriminatory at all...

You have no idea what real discrimination is. Get your pampered ass out of here and learn to grow up.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I am pretty close to legally blind, I struggled to read the small white print on gray background for some of the numbers and letters, but you don't see me coming here to demand SE cater to my disability

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I feel bad for you for this i do - but you are being catered for already and you know this. . . .in game there are ways to change the text size to a more appropriate size and a way to change the text color to something more suitable for your specific needs. . . so you ARE being catered for.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Phobias are mental illnesses--mental disabilities--and they are still considered medical disabilities

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They technically are not a disability because they can be cured. . . i believe i have said this quite a few times

This thread is ridiculous any sort of puzzle should be aloud in the game and it isn't discrimination at all. So do we now have to ban word-search and Sudoku? Just like in the real world you have people who can support you through difficulties aka other players.

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Originally Posted by LittleSparrow

You have no idea what real discrimination is. Get your pampered ass out of here and learn to grow up.

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LOL - seriously this is laughable - get your pampered ass out here and learn to grow up . . . hilariously funny I wonder what you do for a living. . . Can probably hazard a good guess.

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

They technically are not a disability because they can be cured. . . i believe i have said this quite a few times

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They are still considered a disability. Even if they are more "temporary" or can be "cured." And again, doesn't make them any more or any less important than physical disabilities.

I'm done arguing with you. I don't have time to discuss this with someone who thinks that the definition of a disability is something that is incurable or that can't be treated. Have a wonderful evening.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

This thread is ridiculous any sort of puzzle should be aloud in the game and it isn't discrimination at all. So do we now have to ban word-search and Sudoku? Just like in the real world you have people who can support you through difficulties aka other players.

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I prefer not to rely on other people - and i am asking as to why when so many other disabilities are catered for these specific ones were not. . .

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

I prefer not to rely on other people - and i am asking as to why when so many other disabilities are catered for these specific ones were not. . .

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They are catered for though via player guides, forums, talking to other players. Just cause you CHOOSE to ignore the various means does not mean they are not available.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

They are still considered a disability. And again, doesn't make them any more or any less important than physical disabilities.

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OMG Definition of disability - A physical or mental condition that limits a person's movements, senses, or activities. One that can not be cured and will remain with that person through out their life time. This is from the Oxford Dictionaries (LOL)

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I'm done arguing with you. I don't have time to discuss this with someone who thinks that the definition of a disability is something that is incurable or that can't be treated. Have a wonderful evening.

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again it is (LOL)- and yes i will have a wonderful evening you have a wonderful evening as-well.

Also Masekase - there are in game support options available for people with certain disabilities . . .color blindness for example - in game options / settings - just shows you don't know what your talking about to be honest. And just because you chose to be ignorant of these settings / support options which ARE in the game already doesn't mean they are not there. . or available as you would say.

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

OMG Definition of disability - A physical or mental condition that limits a person's movements, senses, or activities. One that can not be cured and will remain with that person through out their life time. This is from the Oxford Dictionaries

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Really? Let's see.

1. lack of adequate power, strength, or physical or mental ability; incapacity.
2. a physical or mental handicap, especially one that prevents a person from living a full, normal life or from holding a gainful job.
3. anything that disables or puts one at a disadvantage:
His mere six-foot height will be a disability in professional basketball.

A physical or mental condition that limits a person's movements, senses, or activities.

The second definition is from the Oxford dictionary. I see no asterix that implies it must be a permanent condition. For someone arguing for sympathy and equality, you prove yourself a hypocritic by debating semantics and thereby excluding people. I also noticed you conveniently ignored my prior mention of that man with TAR syndrome. It's almost like it destroys your entire position: a person with a disability not crying and whining, demanding the world bend over for them.

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

honestly you just seem like one of them drunken bar fighters always looking for a fight.

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Ok, this just made my day.

You keep belittling people who may have disabilities you don't know about, pretty much everyone's told you to drop it because it's making you look bad, even dyslexic people. Called me narrow-minded because I called you a whiner after acknowledging your disability, which, once again, I respect to no end. You are being extremely rude towards others, and you're hurting your own cause by actually being that "drunken bar fighter", trying to pick a fight with almost every single soul that has posted here so far, not me. Maybe it's time to rethink about this all, and surely past time to drop it. I got nothing against you, and I have the utmost respect for your disability and your daily struggle, so please stop assuming, because all of this is an answer to your attitude towards everyone.

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

Well for other disabilities there are systems in place - all i am saying is there should have been for this one - possibly color co-ordinate it matching numbers, letters and colors - would have made it easier. There are a lot of solutions for this issue for people with the same disability as myself - but none of these were implemented - that is my issue, i just want to know why they were not. And it would not have been violating the integrity of the puzzle itself at all.

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Color coordination would exclude people who are colorblind. What then? What do you say for the colorblind dyslexic people out there?

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Color coordination would exclude people who are colorblind. What then? What do you say for the colorblind dyslexic people out there?

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I guess we colorblind ask the "real" dyslexic's to help us with the event ;)

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

I prefer not to rely on other people - and i am asking as to why when so many other disabilities are catered for these specific ones were not. . .

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Because we simply cannot keep everything in mind.

Atleast this post isn't SJW asking for gender neutral characters. They could fuck right off, lmao.

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

the Ruby sea isnt a real place

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But the Cheap Dungeon is a real place? /rollseyes

Hard to be empathetic to your plight, when you dismiss the issues others might have.

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

Umm because i pay the exact same as you I am entitled to get Equality.

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I pay for lottery tickets. When I inevitably lose, should I be entitled to the exact same winnings as the winners get? You're not paying for quality of life equality. You're paying to play the same game that everyone else is playing. It's impossible for them to make the perfect game that caters to everyone; disabilities or not.

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Originally Posted by Ariochie9771

Yeah there are a lot of systems in place to be honest they are mainly sorted out outside of the game - i think the only one you can change in game is the color system and that's for people who have color blind issues (which i actually don't)

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This is where the rest of the thread was invalidated. OP points out that many of the "systems in place" aren't directly provided by the game (because providing accommodations for every single consideration would be far too big a task for any company). So why should the game have to provide a special system for this?

I reject your suggestion of color coding numbers/letters, since the selection of letters is meant to be inflated. The game intentionally provides unnecessary letters to task players with deciphering what information is necessary. By color coding, the puzzle would cease to exist.

The way this puzzle works, though, it could literally give you some random letters as the password as the outcome rather than a "word". It's not really a word game (like a plain anagram would be). If you can count to 8 you can solve it without even knowing what a letter is.