Job Specific gear and dyes.

Personally, as cool as dying gear is in a video game I think it is more of a gimmick than anything else. In the end, being able to dye your gear won't keep you wanting to play XIV.

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Originally Posted by Loving

Personally, as cool as dying gear is in a video game I think it is more of a gimmick than anything else. In the end, being able to dye your gear won't keep you wanting to play XIV.

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I disagree, customization brings people to the game and keeps them playing, because they aren't seeing the same thing all the time.

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Originally Posted by Cer

I disagree, customization brings people to the game and keeps them playing, because they aren't seeing the same thing all the time.

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Now I can see that but I hardly feel like, just for example, if a games core mechanics are broken that being able to dye a piece of gear is going to keep anyone playing said game regardless of the quality/type of item they want to dye.

Also, I think customization is to strong of word for something that's completely about vanity but that's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Loving

Now I can see that but I hardly feel like, just for example, if a games core mechanics are broken that being able to dye a piece of gear is going to keep anyone playing said game regardless of the quality/type of item they want to dye.

Also, I think customization is to strong of word for something that's completely about vanity but that's just my opinion.

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Its true that its not going to "fix" the game for anyone, but customization is completely about personal preference. In a way its all about vanity, would you really feel all that different if everyone was forced to play a hyur male with the same armor and you could only do some quests differently from others?

before i leave work today i fully expect to see a thread "how many of you will stop playing cause you cant dye you job gear", lol, you know its gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by Cer

Its true that its not going to "fix" the game for anyone, but customization is completely about personal preference. In a way its all about vanity, would you really feel all that different if everyone was forced to play a hyur male with the same armor and you could only do some quests differently from others?

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Being against the dying of Job AFs is not necessarily being against customization. Stop hiding behind that single argument. There's many ways to customize in the game already. This does not mean that EVERY aspect of it has to be open to every form of customization.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Being against the dying of Job AFs is not necessarily being against customization. Stop hiding behind that single argument. There's many ways to customize in the game already. This does not mean that EVERY aspect of it has to be open to every form of customization.

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I'm not doing any of that. Its just another facet of customization. Some of the AF isn't even the right colors traditionally anyway. I'm sorry but i'd like to have blue robes and straw colored hat for my BLM, or a blue DRG. Not saying the black isn't cool, but i don't see the harm in offering a few variations.

Also I was just pointing out also that in a game like this, built half around looks and graphical quality, its a little bit more important.

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Originally Posted by Cer

I'm not doing any of that. Its just another facet of customization. Some of the AF isn't even the right colors traditionally anyway. I'm sorry but i'd like to have blue robes and straw colored hat for my BLM, or a blue DRG. Not saying the black isn't cool, but i don't see the harm in offering a few variations.

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I believe Yoshi-P said they will have different color patterns and designs for future Job AFs. Each Job isn't going to have only 1 set of gear for all of eternity.

For example, considering the earliest disclosed concept art of the BLM gear displayed a straw-colored hat and gloves it's not a far stretch of the mind to think a future released set will have said scheme.

Yea, I know I'll still be pissed about my generic level 50 AF at level 60, 70, 80, etc.

I agree with SE on this one i like my FF Job armors to stay iconic.

They're supposed to be different from crafted gear, I'm ok that it follows a different system and is not colored.

I don't know about others, but at least Black Mage gear has four different variants in the .dats, Red, Blue, Purple, and Black.

Expect "Tiers" of the AF gear to show slight variations in colour and style. Otherwise don't expect to jam some emo-black monk robes and then tomorrow make them fire-red.

I prefer that the job specific gear actually be the top of the line gear till the level cap is raised. Who the hell gives a damn about whether or not you look like other people most of the gear in this game looks so god damn bad already.

omg...everyone is wearing RED gear now...sheesh can we mix it up?

Really nagging at a staple of the series? Everyone already wears all the same gear, now everyone will just be able to easily recognize the jobs. The best gear will be worn. Plain and simple, its an RPG where gear matters. Plus idk how I'd feel about a pink DRG running around the game...(this isn't a Power Rangers MMO)

/TheseAreNotTheDroidsYourLookingFor,MoveAlong.

is this noobtard real crying about not eing able to color thier af/jse wow dude go play maple story nuuuuuuuuuuuuuubbbbbbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeee

If their planning on using the same gear but recolored for the next higher tier, No thanks!
I don't want to wear the same gear for the rest of my lyfe.

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Originally Posted by Huh

If their planning on using the same gear but recolored for the next higher tier, No thanks!
I don't want to wear the same gear for the rest of my lyfe.

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Its just one set of gear, you get it at 50, there's no "higher" tier because there's no higher level.
the quests 35-50 don't get you the gear but skills. AF quest is seperate and gets you one set of AF gear, once you outgrow it (I assume there's going to be a cap raise at some point) you stash your AF armor into your retainer in memory of glory days, and replace it with next tier armor which seing this game's naming/coloring scheme will be the same armor that looks like level 10-20-30-40-50 DoW/DoM armor, only this time its Silk/Adamantium instead of wool/mythril and comes in neon pink and orange instead of red and blue.

It will work like XI more than likely, wherein:

lv50 cap: AF armor the best
lv51-xx caps: other expansion/content based armor the best
lvYY cap: AF2 armor the best (or circumstantially the best)
lvYY1-ZZ caps: new expansion/content based armor the best

So on and so forth, so is the cycle of gear in a MMO

well, my thing is i know that the black/white mages should be black/white gear. what i am talking about when i say i would like to see them be dyed is like the straps would have variations in colors in them. the main color would stay the same, but would have coloring differences.

i'm more looking at like how the haubby is dyed. when you dye the haubby red it just colors minor parts of it and not the whole thing.

i'm not saying i want the black mage to be using a white or yellow outfit, but the black robe could have color variations on the straps. at least then there is some diversity. the robe would still be black, but one may have white straps and another would be red. those types of little things would add alot of customization of your characters. we have to remember this is a game and games are meant to be fun.

personally i like the colors of most of the gear as it is and wouldn't touch any of them, but i can't disagree with the fact others would want to do so when it would not affect me at all.

I actually like Yoshida's idea on it since it worked fine in FFXI with AF > AF2 > Empyrean coloration, which is basically how hauby's are dyed ontop of changing the design a bit, i.e:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Magus_Attire_Set
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Mirage_Attire_Set
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Mavi_Attire_%2B2_Set

People say it's "boring", but it's also boring seeing top tier armor in other MMOs with a large glow effect (that's almost always the same color) but it's just MMOs are supposed to be different, and FF MMOs actually did something different for once when it came to itemization for Jobs specifically.

I still don't get why people say coloring your gear is customization since I can easily see 2 people having White Mage armor with green trims -- Customization means you're different from someone else, this was mostly the purpose of materia and why Yoshida felt dying and mateia attaching is better left for crafted gear -- Remember, JSE/AF is just one set of many sets that already exists, not to mention armor sets that will continue to exist so there will still be customization out there, just not for one/1xx armor sets. Even if they release 2-3 more JSE sets over the years, it'll only be 4 armor sets out of hundreds -- They're not stripping customization from the game in any way, you can still customize your crafted gear including dying and will get even more color options on the new engine.

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Originally Posted by ninesunz

disclaimer: The below are my opinions - if you agree great!, if you don't we will be sworn enemies eternal.


I think the whole underlying issue of the color of armor is that for myself I relate the color of the armor to stats.
When I see a red cobalt cuirass I think diff stats from a blue cobalt cuirass, and I'm very comfortable with this.

For right or wrong when you are able to dye armor any color you want it starts to break that down.

Should you be able to identify the stat of an armor by its color?
Mechanics/game wise no, its not a necessity - you aren't breaking any coveted MMO rules

Would it be nice to standardize all the armor so its easy to identify so you know what other ppl are wearing? (and thus judge the player based on his/her gear for right or wrong)
I for one say yes!

I would much rather know that red cobalt gear is +str/atk and blue cobalt is +vit/def and green cobalt +mnd/mp
Though other people's gear color is their own business and really doesn't impact my playability of the game
I would prefer the standardization to make it easier on me to know the gear so that when I am selling/buying it also makes it easier.

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Hooray, we are enemies eternal! :D

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I actually like Yoshida's idea on it since it worked fine in FFXI with AF > AF2 > Empyrean coloration, which is basically how hauby's are dyed ontop of changing the design a bit, i.e:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Magus_Attire_Set
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Mirage_Attire_Set
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Mavi_Attire_%2B2_Set

People say it's "boring", but it's also boring seeing top tier armor in other MMOs with a large glow effect (that's almost always the same color) but it's just MMOs are supposed to be different, and FF MMOs actually did something different for once when it came to itemization for Jobs specifically.

I still don't get why people say coloring your gear is customization since I can easily see 2 people having White Mage armor with green trims -- Customization means you're different from someone else, this was mostly the purpose of materia and why Yoshida felt dying and mateia attaching is better left for crafted gear -- Remember, JSE/AF is just one set of many sets that already exists, not to mention armor sets that will continue to exist so there will still be customization out there, just not for one/1xx armor sets. Even if they release 2-3 more JSE sets over the years, it'll only be 4 armor sets out of hundreds -- They're not stripping customization from the game in any way, you can still customize your crafted gear including dying and will get even more color options on the new engine.

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first lets get the ground work for this discussion layed by establishing the definition of customization because it does not mean to be different.

cus·tom·ize
   [kuhs-tuh-mahyz] Show IPA
verb (used with object) -ized, -iz·ing.
to modify or build according to individual or personal specifications or preference: to customize an automobile.

Now that that's outta the way, i am not for the customization of artifact armor, however i am for dif version of it down the road that would e considered an upgrade and not just a different color.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

first lets get the ground work for this discussion layed by establishing the definition of customization because it does not mean to be different.

cus·tom·ize
   [kuhs-tuh-mahyz] Show IPA
verb (used with object) -ized, -iz·ing.
to modify or build according to individual or personal specifications or preference: to customize an automobile.

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In other words, to be different.

I like the idea of dying everything any color/combination of colors that the player likes. EXCEPT for this, the very first job specific armor... Once they introduce the next gear upgrade, sure go crazy. But this FIRST set being classic and iconic (for the most part) really makes me happy.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

In other words, to be different.

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No....."To be different from the original design". To say "to be different", would be suggesting to be different from EVERYONE else, which is highly unlikely.

As far as I'm concerned on this matter, it's selfish not to allow other people to change their gear color, because you want it to feel iconic. I myself will probably never color my AF gear, but if other people want to, then let them.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

In other words, to be different.

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No, not in other words, to be different. If everyone made there's green and I like the color green knowing it would be the same as everyone else it would still be customized. Im sorry I didn't go further into depth with the definition of the word, my tendency to over estimate peoples ability to understand simple text gets the better of me sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Vaymathias

No....."To be different from the original design". To say "to be different", would be suggesting to be different from EVERYONE else, which is highly unlikely.

As far as I'm concerned on this matter, it's selfish not to allow other people to change their gear color, because you want it to feel iconic. I myself will probably never color my AF gear, but if other people want to, then let them.

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So you think Yoshida is being selfish, especially since the whole point of all of this is to make FFXIV actually look and feel like a Final Fantasy game?

I mean is it TRULY that big of a deal you can't color ONE set in the game when HUNDREDS OF OTHERS exist that can be?

No wonder Square can't get anything done with this game...we're always complaining over non-issues.

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Originally Posted by Zeref

I don't know about others, but at least Black Mage gear has four different variants in the .dats, Red, Blue, Purple, and Black.

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This only exists for Black Mage and it was the first set made when the game determined stats by colors, that however has changed.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

So you think Yoshida is being selfish, especially since the whole point of all of this is to make FFXIV actually look and feel like a Final Fantasy game?

I mean is it TRULY that big of a deal you can't color ONE set in the game when HUNDREDS OF OTHERS exist that can be?

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no sets in game at this point that are u/u can be colored, i dont know why people want to color AA. Come to think of it though, now i want a green buccaneers hat, QQ, QQ, QQ.

Now customization means I want to be totally unique from everyone else. I love how people put words in my mouth.

Some kind of difference between people would work fine, LIKE I SAID BEFORE. It doesn't have to be extreme, just a subtle difference would be cool. It's funny because people are so against change in a game. Since everyone can simply PL to 50 now, everyone will have it.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Now customization means I want to be totally unique from everyone else. I love how people put words in my mouth.

Some kind of difference between people would work fine, LIKE I SAID BEFORE. It doesn't have to be extreme, just a subtle difference would be cool. It's funny because people are so against change in a game. Since everyone can simply PL to 50 now, everyone will have it.

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im under the impression that this gear will take awhile to get, so much so that by the time everyone has it new gear will be out. I may be wrong but this is what im basing my decision on to say i would not like it to b dyed.Hopefully some different variations of job gear. Also I would speculate that some future primals and dungeons will drop some job gear so you can customize your look with some dif pieces.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Now customization means I want to be totally unique from everyone else. I love how people put words in my mouth.

Some kind of difference between people would work fine, LIKE I SAID BEFORE. It doesn't have to be extreme, just a subtle difference would be cool. It's funny because people are so against change in a game. Since everyone can simply PL to 50 now, everyone will have it.

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there's no use trying to talk and hope people like jennestia can understand. they don't even understand customize does not mean unique.

i get a car and i add a set of rims to it then i customized the car even if there is 5mil other cars with the same exact rim. being able to customize something is nothing more than altering the default. it could be something as simple as adding the fuzzy dice on the rear view mirror to having a complete paint job and system installed. they are both customizing.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

there's no use trying to talk and hope people like jennestia can understand. they don't even understand customize does not mean unique.

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Customization does mean different, that's why you customize things to make it different (i.e unique). As I said though, this is why SE can't really do anything with this game because people are complaining about non-issues like this.

Also:

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

being able to customize something is nothing more than altering the default

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So, in other words, being different from one another? Since you seem the type to try to tell others what they do and do not understand:

Definition of different:

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Not the same as another or each other;
Distinct; separate

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If you change your car rims, i.e customizing, doesn't that mean it's different from the default and quite likely different from someone else who may have the same car...? Seriously, this is the only MMO forum I've ever seen where people would get pissed off over not being able to change the color of something even though people playing other MMORPGs never complain that top gear sets usually look a like as is.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Customization does mean different, that's why you customize things to make it different (i.e unique). As I said though, this is why SE can't really do anything with this game because people are complaining about non-issues like this.

Also:



So, in other words, being different from one another? Since you seem the type to try to tell others what they do and do not understand:

Definition of different:


If you change your car rims, i.e customizing, doesn't that mean it's different from the default and quite likely different from someone else who may have the same car...? Seriously, this is the only MMO forum I've ever seen where people would get pissed off over not being able to change the color of something even though people playing other MMORPGs never complain that top gear sets usually look a like as is.

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like i already said customization does not mean different. If something becomes different from somehting else via customization it is merely a side effect. At the same time it could become the same as somehting else. So does this mean it means same and different at the same time.

cus·tom·ize
   [kuhs-tuh-mahyz] Show IPA
verb (used with object) -ized, -iz·ing.
to modify or build according to individual or personal specifications or preference: to customize an automobile.


example:I saw a picture in a magazine of a car and i customized mine to look just like it.

please do not twist and contort actual definitions to suit your own needs, its a pet peeve of mine.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

It's funny because people are so against change in a game.

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Majority of players agreed for FFXIV to be overhauled, so I see no one against change in a game -- Where did SE state you will no longer be able to dye non-JSE gear? That would be a change in the game because you can dye gear now, then they make it so you can no longer dye any armor set -- Then you should be complaining.

Not being able to dye JSE gear isn't a problem, it's one set of armor, they're not taking away the ability to dye other gear in the game. Everyone can power level to 50 now and wear cobalt armor that you see everywhere, why aren't you complaining about that? Because they can change the color of it..?

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

like i already said customization does not mean different. If something becomes different from somehting else via customization it is merely a side effect. At the same time it could become the same as somehting else. So does this mean it means same and different at the same time.

cus·tom·ize
   [kuhs-tuh-mahyz] Show IPA
verb (used with object) -ized, -iz·ing.
to modify or build according to individual or personal specifications or preference: to customize an automobile.


example:I saw a picture in a magazine of a car and i customized mine to look just like it.

please do not twist and contort actual definitions to suit your own needs, its a pet peeve of mine.

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But you also customize to change performance, since we're sticking with the car example, if you customize your car chances are your car won't look nor perform like when you purchased it from a dealership/friend/stranger/etc. I don't see any twisting of anything, more like people ignoring the fact that customization is usually done to try to be different from others, this is why MMOs allow you to place tattoos, markings, unique hairstyles, voices etc. That's why you can customize your character in great lengths in some of them.

This is why not being able to change the color of a JSE set isn't stemming customization, you'll have other options to be dyed, which even Yoshida says crafted gear is where you should look for dying and stat customizing (Materia.)

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Originally Posted by Elexia

But you also customize to change performance, since we're sticking with the car example, if you customize your car chances are your car won't look nor perform like when you purchased it from a dealership/friend/stranger/etc. I don't see any twisting of anything, more like people ignoring the fact that customization is usually done to try to be different from others, this is why MMOs allow you to place tattoos, markings, unique hairstyles, voices etc. That's why you can customize your character in great lengths in some of them.

This is why not being able to change the color of a JSE set isn't stemming customization, you'll have other options to be dyed, which even Yoshida says crafted gear is where you should look for dying and stat customizing (Materia.)

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the fact that you can customize something to look exactly like something else completely voids the relation of the word customize and different. Like i said if it becomes different it is just a side effect. If everyone on earth customize4d the same car with the same colors and same rims, they would still be customized even though they are all the same.

If you buy a house and there are only 2 dif types of floors to pick from but you get to pick, you customized it. In that development 50% of the houses will have the same floor as yours, but it is still custom.

Im only arguing this point so we are all talking about the facts from he same perspective. If one person thinks a word means one thing and someone else thinks it meas something else then you are already on 2 different pages and shouldn't even have a discussion together.

now maybe riser sees exactly what i meant by it's no use trying to explain anything to them.

last example already in game.

you customize your action bar. do you do it to be different from someone else? no, it means you set actions to where they are most suitable to you.

you customize your point allotments. do you do it to be different from someone else? no, you put points in the stats you want depending on class and role in the party.

you customize your chat logs. do you do it to be different from someone else? no, you customize it for your liking or what is needed at the time.(example: only enemy actions for ifrit fights)

to customize anything it does not matter if it is the same thing as someone else. it is strictly based on what someone wants. yes, it means to be different than what the default settings are, but it does not matter if it is the same or different than someone else.

does anyone remember why they said they were going to allow you to dye gear? it was to be able to customize it to personal choices. there's only 9 colors in the game so if you dye something black because you want black there will be thousands that make the same choice. turning an item a different color isn't about standing apart from others. it's about customizing things to your liking.

anyways no matter how many times you show people what you mean some will still not be intelligent enough to understand it.

Player A "customizes" their cobalt set to be blue. Player B "customizes" their cobalt set to be blue.

Both Player A & Player B now look the same, not different, despite customizing their aesthetic look to their preference.

/end "Customization" debate.

You are not a unique snowflake.