WOW! Super kicks!!! :D

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Originally Posted by Musaid

Monks should have normal kicks with their auto attack animation and mp consuming kicks with flashy effects that blind everyone in the general vicinity. A really small scale version of a Chuck Norris roundhouse, perhaps. Also, monks need elbow and knee strikes. Modernise it please.

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How about a head butt? Chance to inflict daze on enemy. (Small chance it gets inflicted on you. o.O)

Head butts are kinda dirty, I wouldn't want it, personally. Why not have a bald customisation option.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Let's have them all shave their heads while we're at it.

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Originally Posted by Musaid

Head butts are kinda dirty, I wouldn't want it, personally. Why not have a bald customisation option.

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https://convore2.s3.amazonaws.com/in...f/e54fc304.gif

Don't really get it, but good job!

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Exactly. Arguing aesthetics here.

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Yes, exactly. Just wanted to be sure you didn't think I was dissing the MP drain for more damage idea as a whole, because I actually like that.

kicks draining mp works fine for me. Not really immersion breaking that the skill would require a resource such as mp when it requires additional mental and physical training to perfect and yada yada lore + fantasy logic. There ought to be some reason as to why the other classes such as Archer doesn't put a boot to the face when the mobs comes too close. You don't always need to put on your robe and wizard hat to channel the energies.

kicks could be an elemental stance too, not sure if thats been clarified.

Nah, the AA-kick skill ain't elemental.

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MNK Abl. 2 Adds kicks to auto-attacks. Effect fades upon reuse. MP is continually consumed while effect is active.

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src

However, that isn't to say what more is to come eventually.

i see it as "if you're fighting something resistant to all your elemental fists, use kicks"

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

i see it as "if you're fighting something resistant to all your elemental fists, use kicks"

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In the face no doubt.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

i see it as "if you're fighting something resistant to all your elemental fists, use kicks"

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It's more like "If you've got a BRD with you, use Kicks."

Nothing suggests that Kicks do not stack with elemental stances.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

It's more like "If you've got a BRD with you, use Kicks."

Nothing suggests that Kicks do not stack with elemental stances.

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Yeah, it seems like you can kick AND use stances at the same time. Which probably drains MP like a mofo, but gives you tremendous DPS.

It's kinda FF staple for Monks to have a skill to activate their kicks, like dude from FF4 he had an kick command but had an option to kick. Besides most monks in FF don't usually kick much.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

It's more like "If you've got a BRD with you, use Kicks."

Nothing suggests that Kicks do not stack with elemental stances.

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I think I just drooled a little bit.

Doubt we'll be able to both kick and use elemental stances simultaneously, simply because it sounds fairly unbalanced to be able to use any two AA stances at the same time.

Not sure if this was mentioned, but I think it would be cool if kicks drained MP from the target. Could be small penalty, like less DPS or less TP gained per kick, but could help augment MP maintenance.

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Originally Posted by Nayt

Doubt we'll be able to both kick and use elemental stances simultaneously, simply because it sounds fairly unbalanced to be able to use any two AA stances at the same time.

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Higher cost, higher reward.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Higher cost, higher reward.

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Even with doubled cost it would still be overpowered merely due to the DPS possible if you have refreshing sources.

You hold your thumbs if you wish, but I call bs.

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Originally Posted by Nayt

Even with doubled cost it would still be overpowered merely due to the DPS possible if you have refreshing sources.

You hold your thumbs if you wish, but I call bs.

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A Job having higher DPS than it's class counterpart? Bullshit!

Call it whatever you like. It's not like I'm pulling this out of my donkey.

The skills on the action list quite clearly state when they cannot be active when a certain other buff is active (ie. the elemental fist skills). Even on other classes, mutually exclusive skills are quite clearly noted.

The MNK buff that adds kicks to AA however, does not say any such thing. An extremely close range fighter like the MNK having very high DPS? Noooooo... doesn't make sense at all....

Oh yea, on top of the elemental stances and the kicks, MNK is the only job that gets an Auto-Haste.

Like others mentioned, unlike Fist of Fire/Earth/Wind, the kicks don't mention that stacking with stances isn't allowed.

If it can stack, I'm curios how stance + kick + attack speed buff would work as monk. Considering the sucker punch combo is getting a 3rd action with monk abilities, the combo will become even more useful than before.

EDIT: Regarding aesthetics. This is the forum that someone suggested for job gear to have a cosmetic version and a stat version.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

A Job having higher DPS than it's class counterpart? Bullshit!

Call it whatever you like. It's not like I'm pulling this out of my donkey.

The skills on the action list quite clearly state when they cannot be active when a certain other buff is active (ie. the elemental fist skills). Even on other classes, mutually exclusive skills are quite clearly noted.

The MNK buff that adds kicks to AA however, does not say any such thing. An extremely close range fighter like the MNK having very high DPS? Noooooo... doesn't make sense at all....

Oh yea, on top of the elemental stances and the kicks, MNK is the only job that gets an Auto-Haste.

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Chill, you don't have to get your panties in a twist. I just don't think it's gonna happen, as it doesn't clearly suggest that you'll be able either.
Not that I wouldn't love to be able to pack a punch.

I'm hoping to see even more stances and abilities to appear as time goes by. I suppose the previously posted monk skills will be a fairly set guideline, but there's still reservation for change. I love surprises. After all, they're still gonna take some time balancing shit once it's out.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Exactly. Arguing aesthetics here.

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No. The argument here is sense. You claim OH NO IMMERSION BREAKING when what is really being discussed is common sense. The lack of sense for monks to not already being able to kick is irking and the argument is to KEEP an AA buff through MP, just please don't have it through adding kicks :/

Whenever someone sarcastically claims the "immersion-breaking" counter, their logic implies that they would be completely okay with everyone walking on their face and communicating via foot-clap morse code.

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Originally Posted by Sarchy_Warchy

No. The argument here is sense. You claim OH NO IMMERSION BREAKING when what is really being discussed is common sense. The lack of sense for monks to not already being able to kick is irking and the argument is to KEEP an AA buff through MP, just please don't have it through adding kicks :/

Whenever someone sarcastically claims the "immersion-breaking" counter, their logic implies that they would be completely okay with everyone walking on their face and communicating via foot-clap morse code.

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No... actually it is an argument of aesthetics on this case.

Can MNK kick? Yes.
Does MNK have another buff that uses MP? Yes.

So things that make sense are there. What's being argued is the aesthetic of regular MNK AA.

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Originally Posted by Sarchy_Warchy

No. The argument here is sense. You claim OH NO IMMERSION BREAKING when what is really being discussed is common sense. The lack of sense for monks to not already being able to kick is irking and the argument is to KEEP an AA buff through MP, just please don't have it through adding kicks :/

Whenever someone sarcastically claims the "immersion-breaking" counter, their logic implies that they would be completely okay with everyone walking on their face and communicating via foot-clap morse code.

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Basically this.

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

Basically this.

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

Yes, exactly. Just wanted to be sure you didn't think I was dissing the MP drain for more damage idea as a whole, because I actually like that.

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Way to pull a 180.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Way to pull a 180.

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Nope, he's saying exactly what I'm saying:

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Originally Posted by Sarchy_Warchy

No. The argument here is sense. You claim OH NO IMMERSION BREAKING when what is really being discussed is common sense. The lack of sense for monks to not already being able to kick is irking and the argument is to KEEP an AA buff through MP, just please don't have it through adding kicks :/

Whenever someone sarcastically claims the "immersion-breaking" counter, their logic implies that they would be completely okay with everyone walking on their face and communicating via foot-clap morse code.

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That's my whole argument right there and exactly what I was saying previously. AA buff = good. AA buff that uses MP = cool, awesome. I want this in.

But said AA buff being kicks, thus Monks can't kick unless they have MP = dumb. Monks should kick by default even if it doesn't buff the AA damage. Let the AA damage buff be something else visually, like glowy fists/feet or an afterimage or something.

Monks should have a non-elemental AA buff, but it shouldn't be by adding kicks. Monks should also be able to kick, but it shouldn't cost MP. That is all, thank you.

Seriously not a big deal lol.

Just had to throw this in here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xi4O1yi6b0

Mnk is by far the job I am looking most forward to and the one I believe has the highest potential of any job. Mnk classes have always been my favorite in games so I may be a bit biased, but I decided to look at all dps abilities they will gain closely, and looking at War and Drg I said "That's it?" War get abilities they are almost all for tanking, and drg get a jump and a fire breath. Mnk get to hit faster and kick! As for the kicking costing MP and being an addition ability, I don't mind it, because I don't feel getting kicking standard would have the same Impact. Okay think for a second, how can you replace the kick and still have the same affect? Oh let's add a third punch, hmm okay it's good dps but not that exciting. However with kicks, your Mnk, just aesthetically goes from just punching to adding a third hit, and it's a kick! This will have a serious visual impact and really make you really feel like you are bringing out the beast.

Now the game play side.

Why does it cost MP? There is NO other way to do it. Get a Mrd friend, go to Zahar'ak and do a little test. Have him ramp up Berserk while you just auto attack. Both with Ifrit weapons my Mrd friend hits maybe 300 damage a hit. I forget my exact but for now let's say I do around 130 a punch, it's somewhere around there. So 260 a round, 40 less then him. That makes sense though right? He has this huge axe, and Mrd are supposed to be massive hitters. However one thing people seem to forget is, Pgl/Mnk hits really fast. I hit almost twice as fast as him. Now, then go over to Grid or LL, and find yourself a crab. Hit it a few times, then pop Fire Fists and watch what happens. Your dmg almost doubles. So paint this little picture as Mnk.

You are a Mnk, hitting fast and doing strong damage. Then you use an ability that makes you hit even faster, with no cost to yourself. THEN you use an ability that adds ANOTHER hit per round. THEN you use an ability that vastly increases your damage on certain enemies.(keep in mind Mnk have three different elemental affinity stance)

Yes your MP will be draining fast. Probably faster then a Brd can recover it. Maybe a lot faster. But if it didn't drain MP, Mnk by far would be the most OP melee class.

I will enjoy my MP kick attacks. Because I will enjoy going from a standard AA dps, to a massive speed, kicking demon with the power to envoke the elements in all his attacks. :D Just the shock of switching between the two will really make you feel the power of the Mnk, and appreciate those kicks so much more.

don't play pug much but all of your arguments seem very interesting i had a few ideas i just wanted to throw out here in the forum to see what you all hard core pugs thought about it: the stance that add kicks to attacks what if it gave a longer range for your attacks and the other thing is standard weapon skill combosl.....do the combo get the combo bonus bla bla bla i think it would be pretty nice to add a stance combos along with the standard ability combos for example Pummel(FE)> CB(FW)> simian thrust(FF) in additional to the increased damage you will recieve what if because you used certain stance with the combo you could get an addition buff or modifier (haste, fire dot, increase defense etc.)

Have you guys seen the new Monk attack? HOLY SHIT!!!
I will be a proud MONK again!

I'm sorry if this has also been addressed somewhere in this thread (I know the first line has been). Comments like these just drive me insane. Read the patch notes people!

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Originally Posted by Meleena

Its easy to see what is going wrong here, Melees have to manage their TP, Mages need to manage their MP, Pugilist and Monks MUST manage both.
On top of that Monks will be the only classes that will not be able to focus on something stat wise because all stats will take an effect on us.

THATS why MP makes no sence, are we allowed to complain now?

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You clearly didn't read the patch notes. Allow me to help you.

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Intelligence
* Attack Magic Potency
* Damage dealt by pugilist arms

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Class ........ Bonus 1 ....... Bonus 2
Pugilist ..... Intelligence .. Strength

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Why do I still see people trying to stack STR (and sometimes even whining about which stat they need)?

/rantover. Please continue with your thread, Thank you.

....first off str is easier to stack then int secondly if a mob has resistance to fire the buff becomes useless....if i were you Razor i wouldn't rant anymore unless you know a little more about the class besides what SE post on the patch notes. it just makes you look dumb in the long run meleena's point is already not valid through common sense but when you quote on it with a rant that doesn't even make your point evident it defeats the purpose

just so you know, int affect your regular auto-attack too, not just elemental fists. Not sure about ws, anyhow i'd say to put int everywhere you can. If not int avaiable, put str or attack

Razor (and Knite) my point was valid, but you clearly didn't read any of the other posts explaining WHY I said such a thing.

When I am talking about stats I am not only refering to damage dealing, do not hastily come to the conclusion that I haven't read the patch notes.
The notes state that I need Inteligence and Strength to up my damage, but since Pugilist and Monk need MP to keep their stances UP for longer times, I suddenly end up needing to raise my PIETY as well.
Dexterity and Vitality do not raise raw damage, but they raise critical%, HP and physical defence.
Mages don't need to rely on these, but Pugilists are Melee classes and need to raise both of these stats.

Also at the time of my previous post, it wasn't clear if our Fists of Earth or Fists of Fire were Magical or Physical attacks so we didn't know if Pugilists needed both Magical Accuracy (raise Mind stat) and Physical accuracy as well as both Magical Critical and Physical Critical to up their damage.

Please know the situation before start randomly judgeing people and ranting, thank you.

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Originally Posted by knite23

....first off str is easier to stack then int secondly if a mob has resistance to fire the buff becomes useless....if i were you Razor i wouldn't rant anymore unless you know a little more about the class besides what SE post on the patch notes. it just makes you look dumb in the long run meleena's point is already not valid through common sense but when you quote on it with a rant that doesn't even make your point evident it defeats the purpose

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Actually INT provides a direct increase to the DPS of PGL regardless of stance. AA damage is increased as is weaponskill damage. Furthermore, the Damage bonus on Blindside is further increased based on your INT value. It's quite easy to stack both via materia, as their slots are different. As for rings I personally go with INT.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

Razor (and Knite) my point was valid, but you clearly didn't read any of the other posts explaining WHY I said such a thing.

When I am talking about stats I am not only refering to damage dealing, do not hastily come to the conclusion that I haven't read the patch notes.
The notes state that I need Inteligence and Strength to up my damage, but since Pugilist and Monk need MP to keep their stances UP for longer times, I suddenly end up needing to raise my PIETY as well.
Dexterity and Vitality do not raise raw damage, but they raise critical%, HP and physical defence.
Mages don't need to rely on these, but Pugilists are Melee classes and need to raise both of these stats.

Also at the time of my previous post, it wasn't clear if our Fists of Earth or Fists of Fire were Magical or Physical attacks so we didn't know if Pugilists needed both Magical Accuracy (raise Mind stat) and Physical accuracy as well as both Magical Critical and Physical Critical to up their damage.

Please know the situation before start randomly judgeing people and ranting, thank you.

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Yup at the time of the discussion before we went over the details your points were well warranted. It's important that I point out though that DEX does not effect critical rate, potency or physical evasion at all. Those are myths. Those stats are handled entirely through gear, traits and ability bonuses.

So Dexterity is accuracy only?
Might as well rename it to ACC lol :P

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Originally Posted by Meleena

So Dexterity is accuracy only?
Might as well rename it to ACC lol :P

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As well as Block rate and Parry. Also of course attack bonus for ARCs.

Yeah I was talking about Pugs onry.