1.20 destroyed the game again ?

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Originally Posted by KaiserSinclaire

I just pulled 69k dps in moogle. Your doing it wrong sir :[

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dunno if serious?

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Originally Posted by viion

dunno if serious?

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It's the fact DPS is somehow the term for overall dmg in other MMOs, she likely meant parsed 69k dmg total.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It's the fact DPS is somehow the term for overall dmg in other MMOs, she likely meant parsed 69k dmg total.

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I got that part. Just pointing it out - alongside the fact that how much damage one did alone is meaningless.

It's akin to saying "I'm so fast, I traveled 100 miles!"

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I got that part. Just pointing it out - alongside the fact that how much damage one did alone is meaningless.

It's akin to saying "I'm so fast, I traveled 100 miles!"

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That is some serious fastness.

I think 1.20 is awesome!. the only problem for me is the moogle quest repetition, but thats getting fixed .

Actually, I do have to agree with the original poster. Patch 1.20 ruined melee combat. It's slow with no active abilities at the beginning of combat to lead with. You do nothing but watch your auto-attack and wait.

And, yes, 10 seconds during MMO combat feels like an eternity. If I (CNJ) duo with my husband (PGL), he tells me he can get in one attack (TP abilitiy) during the whole fight. The rest is just helplessly watching your auto-attack. Combat is now atrocious and no fun. And it's definitely a deciding factor not to subscribe on Jan 6th.

Games like Aion and SW:TOR have the funnest combat I've ever experienced in an MMO. This is just terrible.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Actually, I do have to agree with the original poster. Patch 1.20 ruined melee combat. It's slow with no active abilities at the beginning of combat to lead with. You do nothing but watch your auto-attack and wait.

And, yes, 10 seconds during MMO combat feels like an eternity. If I (CNJ) duo with my husband (PGL), he tells me he can get in one attack (TP abilitiy) during the whole fight. The rest is just helplessly watching your auto-attack. Combat is now atrocious and no fun. And it's definitely a deciding factor not to subscribe on Jan 6th.

Games like Aion and SW:TOR have the funnest combat I've ever experienced in an MMO. This is just terrible.

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this coming from the person who has not leveled past 25?

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

this coming from the person who has not leveled past 25?

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Actually, the fact that I'm still mid level gives merit to my opinion. How many new people that start this game will have patience with this combat system before they shake their heads and walk away?

I've been playing since closed beta. Just because I can't force myself to play through an empty game with no leveling content to get to 50...

Besides, classic troll response (I don't know how to logically dispute your opinion, so I'll just insult you...)

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Actually, I do have to agree with the original poster. Patch 1.20 ruined melee combat. It's slow with no active abilities at the beginning of combat to lead with. You do nothing but watch your auto-attack and wait.

And, yes, 10 seconds during MMO combat feels like an eternity. If I (CNJ) duo with my husband (PGL), he tells me he can get in one attack (TP abilitiy) during the whole fight. The rest is just helplessly watching your auto-attack. Combat is now atrocious and no fun. And it's definitely a deciding factor not to subscribe on Jan 6th.

Games like Aion and SW:TOR have the funnest combat I've ever experienced in an MMO. This is just terrible.

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Well if you're nuking lv 25 mobs on your CNJ, I wouldn't be surprised if your PGL husband had issues getting hits in. Bravo, however, for basing your criticism of the game's battle system off of such a trivial encounter.

I for one have all battle classes at 50. I've tried them all since patch - both solo on GC leves as well as in party. I love the current battle system, despite it being still incomplete. Once Jobs come in with 1.21 we will have taken the 2nd biggest step to fixing the battle system as a whole.

Fight tougher enemies too. I'm playing PGL at 36 and tanking and doing back > side or front > side combos is fun as hell. Invigorate is good and even just using 1 enemy to build TP will last you a while.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Actually, the fact that I'm still mid level gives merit to my opinion. How many new people that start this game will have patience with this combat system before they shake their heads and walk away?

Besides, classic troll response (I don't know how to logically dispute your opinion, so I'll just insult you...)

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I thought it was because you dont level without your hubby which is pretty silly IMO. Kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you haven't progressed far enough to really judge most of these systems.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I love the current battle system, despite it being still incomplete. Once Jobs come in with 1.21 we will have taken the 2nd biggest step to fixing the battle system as a whole.

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And yet, Yoshi-P told us to base our opinion on whether or not to subscribe on patch 1.20. Which tells me combat must be pretty much complete.

Besides, you won't be able to unlock jobs until level 30. You can't expect players to spend 30 levels trying to like their class and the combat system.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

I thought it was because you dont level without your hubby which is pretty silly IMO.

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It is. He hates combat now and refuses to play because of it. Which means, I won't be playing.

That doesn't mean I don't share his opinion. I'm just lucky enough to only play casters. I agree, 1.20 ruined melee combat.

It's not silly. MMOs are how we spend time together. We do all our quests, all our dungeons, all our raids, all our firsts together. In every MMO you see in my signature (with the exception of FFXI, which he couldn't stand), that's how we played, all the way to cap.

The family that plays together, stays together.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

Kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you haven't progressed far enough to really judge most of these systems.

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Level 25. In a game where cap is 50, that's mid-level. That's plenty of time to make an informed decision about whether or not combat feels right. If you're still banging your head against the keyboard past mid-level, it's time to admit that there's a problem. Either with the game, or it's just not right for you. Either way, it's another lost player (in this case, two).

How long do you expect new players to keep muddling through before they start enjoying their class? 30? 40? 50?

1.20 did not destroy melee combat. It made it much more enjoyable and dynamic. AA is a common staple in MMO melee combat, and thus saying the inclusion of it ruined the game is a rather weak assertion.

I have all my melee classes leveled to 50. Again, I have tried them all. I would say my opinion holds more weight than your husband's, who by the sounds of it has PGL to approximately Lv25 and spends most of his time in game duoing with you.

The battle system as it is is worth paying for for many players. It is up to you whether or not you enjoy it or would like to play it.

As for your test example, might I inquire as to the level and type of the mobs?

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

1.20 did not destroy melee combat. It made it much more enjoyable and dynamic. AA is a common staple in MMO melee combat, and thus saying the inclusion of it ruined the game is a rather weak assertion.

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Hold on, assuming I'm one of the people who didn't like the implementation of auto-attack is incorrect. I agree, it is a common MMO staple. However, combat in WoW, in Aion and in SW:TOR still give you an arsenal of abilities to use in addition to auto-attack. They just don't make auto-attack center stage.

Hell, even FFXI wasn't this broken.

I'm glad that melee no longer do little more than spam the 1 key now, but now we've traded being a slave to one mechanic to another. Now we're dependent on AA and TP. We no longer have choices about what abilities to fire off at the beginning of combat (unless you're ranged/caster). Now you pull out your weapon and helplessly watch your character auto-attack until your abilities light up.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Hold on, assuming I'm one of the people who didn't like the implementation of auto-attack is incorrect. I agree, it is a common MMO staple. However, combat in WoW, in Aion and in SW:TOR still give you an arsenal of abilities to use in addition to auto-attack. They just don't make auto-attack center stage.

Hell, even FFXI wasn't this broken.

I'm glad that melee no longer do little more than spam the 1 key now, but now we've traded being a slave to one mechanic to another. Now we're dependent on AA and TP. We have no longer have choices about what abilities to fire off at the beginning of combat (unless you're a caster). Now you pull out your weapon and helplessly watch your character auto-attack until your abilities light up.

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So the first 10 seconds after you engage a mob is what is breaking this game? Got it.

The level of the mobs you're fighting. Are they Lv 35?

Btw, Lv 25 isn't halfway to cap. Lv 40 is.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

1.20 did not destroy melee combat. It made it much more enjoyable and dynamic. AA is a common staple in MMO melee combat, and thus saying the inclusion of it ruined the game is a rather weak assertion.

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Pretty much this.

Oh, and I would like to take this space to mock the OP for posting out of pure ignorance of the class. Claiming certain abilities were gone.

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Originally Posted by GreatLeviathan

Everytime you click light shot it says it can't be used right now..
Even though its cooldown is past ?

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Not a game mechanic issue, its a server/lag issue

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Originally Posted by GreatLeviathan

Heavy shot is gone

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You sir are a liar,
Heavy Shot optimal level : 1
Recast time : 10 seconds TP cost 1000
Delivers a ranged attack, must be at least 8 yalms away from target for use in combo.

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Originally Posted by GreatLeviathan

multishot is gone..

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No its not, if you had a clue before you made a troll thread you would know its simply been changed to Barrage.

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Originally Posted by GreatLeviathan

The enemy attacks me twice before i can even shoot a second arrow.

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You must be staring at the screen letting the drool drip down your chin instead of acting then. Initiate light shot.....auto attack.....light shot.....its literally a 5 second process

I personally love the battle system. Too slow? God are we hoping for another "You are god, you make enemies quake with fear" MMO. Where you can slaughter mass amounts of mobs with little to no problem? That is and was one of the best features of XI to me. The fact that you weren't stupid powerful. You actually had to fear that cute little rabbit @ 75. Here, its not so scary, but that's because there's no penalty for dying. +1 to the new battle system (Thank god no more of that smash 1 50 times crap) Gla is actually fun to play and solo with now. Can't wait for Jobs.

http://memegenerator.net/cache/insta...4/12600048.jpg

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Pretty much this.

Oh, and I would like to take this space to mock the OP for posting out of pure ignorance of the class. Claiming certain abilities were gone.


Not a game mechanic issue, its a server/lag issue



You sir are a liar,
Heavy Shot optimal level : 1
Recast time : 10 seconds TP cost 1000
Delivers a ranged attack, must be at least 8 yalms away from target for use in combo.



No its not, if you had a clue before you made a troll thread you would know its simply been changed to Barrage.



You must be staring at the screen letting the drool drip down your chin instead of acting then. Initiate light shot.....auto attack.....light shot.....its literally a 5 second process

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So multishot is gone.. so is the original barage skill that did a descent amount of damage..
So yeah useless now..
Also everyone keep in mind that the archer's autoatack is USELESS..
Not like with the gld where he waves his sword an extra time..
We don't shoot an extra arrow. he does a punsh on the enemy that does 20 damage.

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Originally Posted by GreatLeviathan

So multishot is gone.. So yeah useless now..

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Umm, kinda "simple" aren't you? Its not gone its renamed. I would hardly call it useless. 5 shots at 150ish a piece with cobolt arrows. So if 800+ damage in one ability is a waste, well then your totally right, the game is destroye, I mean its so bad, if I were you I would asolutely quit right now and never look back.




You sir are still a liar,
Heavy Shot optimal level : 1
Recast time : 10 seconds TP cost 1000
Delivers a ranged attack, must be at least 8 yalms away from target for use in combo.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Umm, kinda "simple" aren't you? Its not gone its renamed. I would hardly call it useless. 5 shots at 150ish a piece with cobolt arrows. So if 800+ damage in one ability is a waste, well then your totally right, the game is destroye, I mean its so bad, if I were you I would asolutely quit right now and never look back.

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Actually, in the moogle fight with HQ cobalt arrows a non-critical shot does anywhere from 220 to 285. That spikes ARC as the highest DPS in the game.

The OP is probably the laziest person I have ever seen. He logged, looked at his WS bar, got confused, then rageposted like a child.

Also, let's keep this post in context - the OP has only ARC at 50, 1 other class past 30, and no other jobs beyond 20, no Ifrit win, no moogle win, no darkhold win. You have zero-to-no experience.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

So the first 10 seconds after you engage a mob is what is breaking this game? Got it.

The level of the mobs you're fighting. Are they Lv 35?

Btw, Lv 25 isn't halfway to cap. Lv 40 is.

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i think the point your missing is the current battle is heavily tuned to being max level. It is really bad mid level, or early leveling if you want to call it that. You simply dont have the tools to do your job well early, you probably have 1 combo, and on certain jobs its a not that useful combo, you most likely do not have any of the moves that give you synergy, and you probably dont have all the cross class abilities that might prove useful, but even if you did, you can only equip like2 of them.

One of the reasons you think combat is great and makes sense is because you have everything 50, and you get to see a total package of how its all tuned.
This is one of teh reasons most games give you skills early and power them up as you go, because for the total picture of the job to make sense, you may need some skills earlier, even if they are weakened, like pug needs mp management abilities, blm needs convert etc.

Also having nothing you can do besides wait for teh beginning of teh fight for every melee class is a bad design, people like to initiate combat, possibly at an advantage, they need to abandon the do nothing until you build up power for 4/5 battle jobs (and the only one who can take initiative is archer, and it doesnt get barrage till like, what 34?), its boring, and even though once you get going its ok, its not ok early, and while invig is great, the only person who will have invigorate starting off is lancer.

The abilities and combat is poorly tuned for the ride up, and it needs more starting abilities even if they arent tp earning/based.

the system has some real strengths, and at 50 when you see the full picture of jobs, its generally pretty good, but why does the game actually start at cap? where is the fun before you get to cap? how fun will it be when they have jobs and you cant use bloodbath, invigorate, cure etc? (sure you could level them, but if you want to main monk, you are only really going to want to invest in whatever will actually be useful from level 30 onwards)

In all honesty i feel like the combat designs blindspot is being balanced for having all skills and levels already done.

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Originally Posted by GreatLeviathan

So multishot is gone.. so is the original barage skill that did a descent amount of damage..
So yeah useless now..
Also everyone keep in mind that the archer's autoatack is USELESS..
Not like with the gld where he waves his sword an extra time..
We don't shoot an extra arrow. he does a punsh on the enemy that does 20 damage.

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Multishot/Trifurcate have been unified as Barrage. The buff allows Archer to shoot 5 arrows on the next Light Shot. It also costs nothing and is governed only by a recast timer. It is currently ARCs best DPS tool.

What used to be Barrage is now Quick Nock's combo effect. Used alone, Quick Nock is what it used to be. At the end of a combo, however, it becomes five-fold attack on the target alone. There's your old-school Barrage. Still quite the useful WS actually.

Archer's Light Shot is working perfectly fine and in the same way it's been working since 1.18. The CD timers being screwy on your action bar is your lag issue. Simply restart your game, and it is fixed. If not - then I would check with your ISP.

Archers are the preferred DD in the Moogle fight - they have the capacity to deliver 100+ DPS in the hands of a proficient player.

Just about everything you say in your OP is ill-informed, nonsensical and ultimately inconsequential.

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In all honesty i feel like the combat designs blindspot is being balanced for having all skills and levels already done.

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It makes sense. Designing content is more efficient when you know what the variables are (in this case, the available actions).

Even then, it wouldn't possibly be too much asked for the devs to create another point at which they can be in control pre-50 through content-exclusive level caps. Possibly 30.

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Originally Posted by Physic

i think the point your missing is the current battle is heavily tuned to being max level. It is really bad mid level, or early leveling if you want to call it that. You simply dont have the tools to do your job well early, you probably have 1 combo, and on certain jobs its a not that useful combo, you most likely do not have any of the moves that give you synergy, and you probably dont have all the cross class abilities that might prove useful, but even if you did, you can only equip like2 of them.

One of the reasons you think combat is great and makes sense is because you have everything 50, and you get to see a total package of how its all tuned.
This is one of teh reasons most games give you skills early and power them up as you go, because for the total picture of the job to make sense, you may need some skills earlier, even if they are weakened, like pug needs mp management abilities, blm needs convert etc.

Also having nothing you can do besides wait for teh beginning of teh fight for every melee class is a bad design, people like to initiate combat, possibly at an advantage, they need to abandon the do nothing until you build up power for 4/5 battle jobs (and the only one who can take initiative is archer, and it doesnt get barrage till like, what 34?), its boring, and even though once you get going its ok, its not ok early, and while invig is great, the only person who will have invigorate starting off is lancer.

The abilities and combat is poorly tuned for the ride up, and it needs more starting abilities even if they arent tp earning/based.

the system has some real strengths, and at 50 when you see the full picture of jobs, its generally pretty good, but why does the game actually start at cap? where is the fun before you get to cap? how fun will it be when they have jobs and you cant use bloodbath, invigorate, cure etc? (sure you could level them, but if you want to main monk, you are only really going to want to invest in whatever will actually be useful from level 30 onwards)

In all honesty i feel like the combat designs blindspot is being balanced for having all skills and levels already done.

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You get more as you level up. That's the point. However, fights aren't really tough until you get into the high levels anyway.

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Originally Posted by Physic

i think the point your missing is the current battle is heavily tuned to being max level. It is really bad mid level, or early leveling if you want to call it that. You simply dont have the tools to do your job well early, you probably have 1 combo, and on certain jobs its a not that useful combo, you most likely do not have any of the moves that give you synergy, and you probably dont have all the cross class abilities that might prove useful, but even if you did, you can only equip like2 of them.

One of the reasons you think combat is great and makes sense is because you have everything 50, and you get to see a total package of how its all tuned.
This is one of teh reasons most games give you skills early and power them up as you go, because for the total picture of the job to make sense, you may need some skills earlier, even if they are weakened, like pug needs mp management abilities, blm needs convert etc.

Also having nothing you can do besides wait for teh beginning of teh fight for every melee class is a bad design, people like to initiate combat, possibly at an advantage, they need to abandon the do nothing until you build up power for 4/5 battle jobs (and the only one who can take initiative is archer, and it doesnt get barrage till like, what 34?), its boring, and even though once you get going its ok, its not ok early, and while invig is great, the only person who will have invigorate starting off is lancer.

The abilities and combat is poorly tuned for the ride up, and it needs more starting abilities even if they arent tp earning/based.

the system has some real strengths, and at 50 when you see the full picture of jobs, its generally pretty good, but why does the game actually start at cap? where is the fun before you get to cap? how fun will it be when they have jobs and you cant use bloodbath, invigorate, cure etc? (sure you could level them, but if you want to main monk, you are only really going to want to invest in whatever will actually be useful from level 30 onwards)

In all honesty i feel like the combat designs blindspot is being balanced for having all skills and levels already done.

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I agree 100%. I bolded the statements I feel are most important.

I would not mind the fights to be difficult but drop rates to be high or vise versa but it seems SE does it again with hard fights low drop rate and handcuff players with less abilities and they wonder why people are looking other places for online fun.Things change only one way "money" I wonder how things will change when people stop playing becasue they don't want pay for a lousy game experience.

You still haven't mentioned the level of the mobs you and your husband were fighing on your level 25 classes by the way Rowyne.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

You still haven't mentioned the level of the mobs you and your husband were fighing on your level 25 classes by the way Rowyne.

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Quest enemies (from GC quests), leve enemies, and level 30 humanoids in Coerthas.

Giggles at the OP. Combos and use real arrows and get a better bow...ROFL

move on nothing to see here... read up on patch notes, and you'll figure out how your class is intended to play, look specifically at the combo system.

Patch 1.20 - Pros: Archer and Thaumaturge rule the damage department now (they are no longer gimped), healing/buff spells improved, monsters are significantly weaker to certain elements and types of weapon damage (piercing, blunt, slashing). Cons: MRD can't destroy a million mobs at once anymore, fighting beastman solo (or any high level mob) is significantly harder then it was before, you lose HP at an alarming rate, and defensive abilities like Sentinel have been significantly gimped to the point where I don't see much use for them outside of the Gladiator class. Comments: Good job on diversifying classes, but I think it has seriously gimped solo play. BUT, advanced jobs may fix that problem so I think we should wait and see.

1.20 hasent destroy the game the fact it has made it alot better.
People are to greedy + remeber how badly game was at lanch if played back then.

Learning how use ur class will do alot
Ihave seen some nerfs and some stuff but also some posetive stuff.

Archer has really nice DPS if you how to use it in partys they are more then welcome.
Mages has always been OP classes since first mmo FFXI black mage and paladin was most played class.

No multi-shot = broken archer? I think I've seen this thread before.:rolleyes:

Just use Quelling Strike > Light Shot > Heavy Shot > Keen Flurry > Quick Knock (5 attacks for 0tp) > Barrage (5 attacks?) > Light Shot... all taking place w/ no time inbetween animations.

Shadowbind + Second Wind are on 40s timers.

And DD have loads of MP to cast Stoneskin (which has reduced cast time now), and Cure. With guesstimates I'd say I have over 1k MP on my Lv50 ARC, and SS n Cure (Minimum 400HP back) are something around 100 MP. Give or take 4000 HP you could recover, or absorb even more with SS.

You'll be fine OP. Relearning classes was daunting at first for me too. In a month and a half the new unique abilities we'll be getting with jobs will only cater to what we do now on our favorite classes.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

You get more as you level up. That's the point. However, fights aren't really tough until you get into the high levels anyway.

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Its not so much about getting more skills, of course you should get more and be more powerful as you level, but it should have entertaining mechanics from like level 10+ at the very least level 20+

its bad design that a classes synergies dont start coming into play to 3/4 or higher the level. pug gets haymaker at 18 (pretty high level) but barely dodges better than any other dom. gets featherfoot at level 2 but no use for mp till level 24. honestly the classes progression is all over the place, it doesnt really come together till much later in the game.

ARC in 1.20 is brilliant, seems almost perfectly balanced to me. Not ridiculous damage but enough to matter. ARC damage is lower because combos can be executed from any direction (as long as you're far enough away).

The problem with skills saying 'cannot be used now' is annoying and I've noticed it happen a lot more since 1.20 was introduced. Always a pain when you start a combo then can't use the 2nd part because it 'isn't ready', despite not showing a re-cast timer.

Remember Quelling Strike (as well as reducing emnity on next attack) now provides a huge TP boost to your next attack. Open up with that, maybe use Invigorate if you're struggling with TP (I forget if it's LNC-only or not now). Also remember that Quick Nock ONLY shoots 5 arrows if you combo into it. Use Keen Flurry before Quick Nock as well because the recast is long.

Pile your points into Dex (as it boosts ARC damage AND accuracy if i remember correctly) and you probably want a decent amount of Piety as well (for MP and additional ARC damage).

It'll take a bit to learn 1.20 classes but overall ARC is really good once you know how to play it.

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Originally Posted by Physic

Its not so much about getting more skills, of course you should get more and be more powerful as you level, but it should have entertaining mechanics from like level 10+ at the very least level 20+

its bad design that a classes synergies dont start coming into play to 3/4 or higher the level. pug gets haymaker at 18 (pretty high level) but barely dodges better than any other dom. gets featherfoot at level 2 but no use for mp till level 24. honestly the classes progression is all over the place, it doesnt really come together till much later in the game.

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First every melee class can do a combo @ lvl 10. Your look on feather foot is dumb Feather foot is just not for mp it has 3 uses: 1 reduces dmg taken by evading an attack, 2. Recovers mp, mp can be used early on for any class you can cross class @ lvl 1.. so you know cure might be useful. 3. it lets you use an attacks that only works by evading, so this skill helps your char force the evade.

1.20 did not destroy the game.

2.0 made the game CONSIDERABLY better for me. I love the patch and the direction. I usually have a lot of fecal matter to throw at square enix. learn the patch, and the battle changes and you will probably change your tune.