Black Mage Raise Ability

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Actually there is magical damage buff called summoners contagion. It have 10% magical vulne with 25% uptime. Only physical damage buffs are brotherhood 5% with 16.6% uptime and embolden is average 6% physical damage buff with 16.6% uptime. Other buffs are buffs for everyone(if slashing/piercing not count). Contagion is stronger magical damage buff (for one person) than embolden and brotherhood combined. Only problem is we have 1 caster meta so black mages are not gonna see contagion very often on the boss.

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to be fair contagion can be up during a requiescat rotation to PLD and buff NIN scrolls and ninjutsu so I'm pretty sure it could work better than most ppl think

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Originally Posted by Gwaeron89

The problem is you may have 2-3 dead bodies per fight with rdm as a caster and clear the boss if raid dps is high enough to cover 25% damage loss. Any other caster than rdm will result in wipe probably. And there's no way around it as it is now. Its just too damn good to not have.

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I don't think any fight past maybe V1S is forgiving enough at the moment for 3 rezzes in the fight and still having the DPS to clear. I could be wrong but considering at that point your RDM is out of juice and everyone you raised is down 25% of their damage.

I dunno. It'd be a clutch.

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Originally Posted by Gwaeron89

Except thats not how RDM works. They have insta res for free, its not counted into their mobility, dps or raid buffs. Why should it be penalized on blm or summoner then? Free battle res for everyone!
But honestly they should just exclude battle res from rdm insta cast list. Being hard casted or casted via swiftcast is already good enough utility. I have feeling that's what they will do in 4.1.

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Except that's not what free means. They pay for their rez by doing significantly less damage, even on fights that favour their high mobility.

I've just had a wonderful idea. No raises for BLMs, but instead they have a targetable version of Thin Air that gives the recipient free* casting for about 12 seconds.

*For every percent of MP that the recipient would have used, the BLM loses the same percent. That should equate to a raise costing the BLM one to two fires per raise.

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Originally Posted by Magnedeus

Could Always raise them as a zombie. Sounds like black magic to me.

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Black Magic =/= Necromancy

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Originally Posted by Stormblessed9000

Except that's not what free means. They pay for their rez by doing significantly less damage, even on fights that favour their high mobility.

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Expect not really. You may as well consider that all dps that resurrected person does during the period before healer notices and has a moment to raise him as well as all hps this healer losing during time wasted on this res as your own dps and hps. Because there wouldn't be any without that insta res. You don't pay for, raid benefits cover everything by a huge margin.

I honestly don't see any reason to argue about it, everyone who raid savages know how broken this utility is. It will be normalized at some point with other classes reses, they can't keep it just like that.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I don't think any fight past maybe V1S is forgiving enough at the moment for 3 rezzes in the fight and still having the DPS to clear. I could be wrong but considering at that point your RDM is out of juice and everyone you raised is down 25% of their damage.

I dunno. It'd be a clutch.

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Both o1s and o2s. O3s requires something like 23k dps so it may be slightly more complicated, but still allows people to progress at much faster pace than probably intended (unless SE for some reason considers rdm a mandatory class for progression raids).

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Originally Posted by Gwaeron89

Expect not really. You may as well consider that all dps that resurrected person does during the period before healer notices and has a moment to raise him as well as all hps this healer losing during time wasted on this res as your own dps and hps. Because there wouldn't be any without that insta res. You don't pay for, raid benefits cover everything by a huge margin.

I honestly don't see any reason to argue about it, everyone who raid savages know how broken this utility is. It will be normalized at some point with other classes reses, they can't keep it just like that.

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It's entirely intentional for RDM to be doing this, if you look at compared to Raise and Resurrection, Verraise has 2.5 (base) seconds longer spent casting. The devs in no capacity wanted RDM not to dualcast/swiftcast Verraise, they're not going to do anything to it.

Please no. Never.

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Originally Posted by Gwaeron89

Expect not really. You may as well consider that all dps that resurrected person does during the period before healer notices and has a moment to raise him as well as all hps this healer losing during time wasted on this res as your own dps and hps. Because there wouldn't be any without that insta res. You don't pay for, raid benefits cover everything by a huge margin.

I honestly don't see any reason to argue about it, everyone who raid savages know how broken this utility is. It will be normalized at some point with other classes reses, they can't keep it just like that.

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You're seriously overstating some things here. It takes literally one GCD for a healer to raise someone, and the mana lost could actually be made back from BLM transfers. It actually can take a RDM twice as long to rez if they rely on dualcast. Plus, a few extra GCDs from a weakened player is not going to close the ~7% damage gap, especially when the RDM needs to sacrifice one of their better GCDs of their own to do it.

Ultimately, for a RDM to be useful over a BLM, you'd need for 3+ people to die AND for the fight not be be unwinnable because of it due to lack of DPS. There will be plenty times when this happens, and it is a nice quality of life bonus for healers to not have to worry about raising (although healers that do this completely can screw a RDM out of mana and kill their DPS). However, there will be many times where these situations won't happen, and then it would have been better to just take a BLM for more DPS.

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

Please no. Never.

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This. I actually like not being responsible for other people. I like BLM being a selfish DPS and only having to do mechanics while keeping up my damage. Perhaps the job could use some minor buff tweaks (MAYBE???), but same could be said for other jobs in this game. Please no raise or any form of it. BLM is meant to blow stuff up, leave the revive spells to those born to it...NOT BLM. Just my opinion.

Again the issue is the meta itself bringing physical melee composition and 1 caster. The issue is there can be a SAM or BLM only. Like i said if square enix buff embolden to include magic dmg party buff im sure people will start exploring double caster composition

This is a bad suggestion and you should feel bad.

Frankly I think they should remove it from SMN and RDM (tho RDM will always have it for lore reasons). Raising is a healer issue not something for DPS

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Originally Posted by Stormblessed9000

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Healer cannot raise anyone consistently unless they keep swiftcast to do so. And if they use swiftcast on it they cannot use it for more important thing like aoe healing.

I don't really overstate anything, there's a huge reddit topic where top tier raiders already stated how absolutly mandatory rdm battle res is for any kind of fast progression raiding. For non top tier raiding its actually even more important considering how often people dying.

And that "situation will not happen" doesn't matter at all because at the point where composition and battle res is not required anymore all content is already cleared and made irrelevant. Who cares if farm praty can take blm or smn over rdm, when there's no more challenge to take.

So i guess we just wait till 4.1 hit and see..

They didn't said it's mandatory, they said that it saved them some pulls, but you have to consider that from their perspective they need to make the most from all of their pulls, else some1 else might snag the kill before them.
The average joe position is much different, you might res even the whole raid 10 times during the fight, but at that point you are more than likely to meet enrage so I ask you this, once you know the fight and you are aiming for a kill what's better? wasting 10-15 minutes and wiping to enrage or starting all over again to have a better shot at it?

We don't need a res, we need our Fire 4 potency increased by way of Umbral Hearts so it makes Blizz 4 viable in our rotation outside of the opener and convert coming off CD. A debuff applied with Thunder would also be great.

No just no if I'm raising people I'm not doing damage. Need to keep those fire 4's going to get to foul

I don't want rez. We are not getting rez. STOP asking for rez.
You want something to ask for to make BLM better? Ask for Aetherial Manipulation to just go "x distance" in the direction you're facing instead of needing a target.
Ask for Umbral Hearts to add ~5% damage to Fire IV casts. Ask for ANYTHING that actually fits BLM, not just getting large "rez envy" over the FOTM class.

TL;DR: Any BLM asking to be able to rez needs to be taken out back and put down like Ole Yeller.

agree, blm should not have rez as utility..., blm could use other utilities instead, like a magic vulnerability dubuff..

or a special rez, that will only be used as a calculated last resort / calculated own risk:

=> blm dark magic "zombie rez", rezed player has either

1) an increase damage take debuff (takes more damage) + increase damage output buff (has more dps)

OR 2) a decreased damage take debuff (takes less damage) + decreased damage output buff (does less dps)

either zombie rez buff 1 or 2 can apply on the rezed player for a limited time, it's RNG whether 1 or 2 happens, ... but might be worth taking the risk, depending on the situation or fight, .. but not ment to be used like a healer or rdm rez..

BLM is the most selfish class. We literally take our own hp and turn it into dps. Why would we waste that previous mp on rezing somebody else?

I just want to watch the world burn.

i wonder is BLM would use the raise ability at all most the ones i play with in DF like to stay in their lay-lines and forget everthing else

I don't want raise, i want powaaaaa
BLM is Death not Raise
Agree with my other fellows :
Fire 4 buff based on Umbral hearts to get a 4.0 proper rotation
A magic vulnerability through T3
Lower cooldown for Conversion

Why would I raise when I could cast another fire at the same time?

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Originally Posted by Rakith

I don't want raise, i want powaaaaa
BLM is Death not Raise
Agree with my other fellows :
Fire 4 buff based on Umbral hearts to get a 4.0 proper rotation
A magic vulnerability through T3
Lower cooldown for Conversion

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IMO spending one or more umbral hearts has to result in some kind of generic stacking bonus so that it's also rewarding to use F2 before Flare. Like bonus damage to your next Foul or seconds shaved off Convert's cd or something.

The better solution is to remove raise from RDM.

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

The better solution is to remove raise from RDM.

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That is a rather silly answer and how exactly would it be a solution?

This. Give me more power instead. I want the power to burnout everything. To hell with the raise idea. Its one of tbe reasons that I was put off from playing RDM and SMN(minus other issues). As a BLM, I want to be able to burn things out quickly. I would prefer more power to cause things to perish more quickly by the flames. I am quite happy not having any MAJOR utility. Leave that silly stuff to RDM/SMN. MORE POWER SE. GIVE ME THE POWER TO BURN EVERYTHING OUT ☺☺☺.

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Originally Posted by Ferrinus

IMO spending one or more umbral hearts has to result in some kind of generic stacking bonus so that it's also rewarding to use F2 before Flare. Like bonus damage to your next Foul or seconds shaved off Convert's cd or something.

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How about having only one Heart that disappears when you cast Flare or any ice spell? Meaning your whole fire would be halved with B4 usage.

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Originally Posted by ZephyStar

I know Yoshida said he wouldn't give black mages a raise ability because it doesn't make sense lore wise, but I disagree. I think it would make perfect sense to have a raise ability centered in black magic. Lore wise perhaps it could have something to do with void magic or necromancy? I mean, if black mages created life via golems, why not be able to restore it to those who already had it? Besides, black mage is a job I truly love. But, it has literally no utility, which is a deal breaker in most statics. I mean, it has a tiny bit via role abilities, but rdm and smn can get those abilities too on top of having DPS buffs and a raise. Black mage will have a very hard time being a job people will want in statics as long as we have no utility. I would seriously ask the development team to reconsider adding a raise ability to help even it out with red mage and summoner.

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Wait what? When has a Black Mage EVER, I repeat EVER had a raise in any Final Fantasy game? I don't recall any, correct me if I'm wrong so, just no. They are the "oshit your ass is gonna get wreck" offensive jobs in FF. This thread is 100% silly, out now.
black mages are the caster version of samurai right? Glass cannons?

also necromancer is a separate job from black mage entirely and that one do works around death and udneath
so no, void magic might be a part of Black mage arsenal, but necromancy NO

I didn't read the rest of the thread it's too long but FINALLY someone who has some imagination! This is similar to what I suggested a while ago that everyone pooped on, a 180 second recast Void Raise that is off-gcd and costs no MP. Make it 300 seconds recast even, if you'd like.

It's not just the only caster that doesn't have raise, it's the only disciple of magic period that doesn't have raise. That's just wrong.

And perhaps most importantly lore/backstory/aesthetics is less important than mechanics and balance. A class's lore could be awesome but be horribly designed *cough*summoner*cough*

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Originally Posted by Llugen

I didn't read the rest of the thread it's too long but FINALLY someone who has some imagination! This is similar to what I suggested a while ago that everyone pooped on, a 180 second recast Void Raise that is off-gcd and costs no MP. Make it 300 seconds recast even, if you'd like.

It's not just the only caster that doesn't have raise, it's the only disciple of magic period that doesn't have raise. That's just wrong.

And perhaps most importantly lore/backstory/aesthetics is less important than mechanics and balance. A class's lore could be awesome but be horribly designed *cough*summoner*cough*

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I'm pretty sure in the first final fantasy game where there was just Warrior, Thief, Monk, White Mage and Red Mage back in 1987.. (CORRECT ME if I'm wrong) There was no lore to them until later games so.. Black Mage was the nuke class, to begin with before they started throwing lore so why do you wanna ruin the originality that is what they are trying to copy with the very first black mage? Lore was just slapped on because its a mmorpg and you need lore. No one that has made a final fantasy game since the first that threw in the black mage class stray away from the original design, just like the other first classes. Black Mage is basically magic based on destruction, destruction magic.. Does it make sense to give it a raise?

Uhhhh no thanks, I like BLMs pure damage stance. Besides, if every caster can do the same thing then why not just delete all 3 and make a generic Mage class? Different strengths and weaknesses make the jobs feel unique.

I can hear Yoshida's laugh from here with this thread.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

I can hear Yoshida's laugh from here with this thread.

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Right? He can't even say please look forward to it because he knows it isn't right.

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Originally Posted by waifugenerator

Uhhhh no thanks, I like BLMs pure damage stance. Besides, if every caster can do the same thing then why not just delete all 3 and make a generic Mage class? Different strengths and weaknesses make the jobs feel unique.

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Because blah blah can do blahda and all I can do is bleh, but I like being a bleh so give me blahda too!

BLMs are the masters of destruction. The thought of them having a raise just... it's just wrong. No matter what you call it. Yes, they're a DoM job and the only one without raise capabilities, but why should they have one? ESPECIALLY when all the others have one?

I get that the, supposed, argument here is balance, but why does that HAVE to be basically nerf blah or give me blah? Why not something new, something different? Something that actually goes with the job?

From a lore/class flavor stance, Black Mage with a Raise spell meshes together about as well as a chocolate malt with mayonnaise instead of whipped cream.

Instead of that mess, I'd rather have BLM contribute a different kind of utility. It would be kind of neat if their ley lines enabled other players within X distance to get a skill/spell speed bonus.

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Originally Posted by Keldion

From a lore/class flavor stance, Black Mage with a Raise spell meshes together about as well as a chocolate malt with mayonnaise instead of whipped cream.

Instead of that mess, I'd rather have BLM contribute a different kind of utility. It would be kind of neat if their ley lines enabled other players within X distance to get a skill/spell speed bonus.

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Yeeees and you know it baffles me when posts like these appear because its like.. Have you ever played the old FF games with classes? None of the jobs in FFXIV are XIV's own. All from the older games and they already have set themes and XIV is just taking them and putting them/making them work in a MMORPG.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

I can hear Yoshida's laugh from here with this thread.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDAtJzebC3E

I hope his is as glorious as Ben's.

Why are you all asking for a Raise when you're all already so good at refusing to let things [this bad idea] die?