Dear Healers who don't DPS

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I'm usually contributing somewhere between 20 to 30% of the group's overall DPS across the run in solo queue roulettes. It's very dooable to save as much as 10 minutes if you get unlucky on the DPS.

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If your DPS are this terrible, it's not the not-DPSing healer's fault for the run taking so long.

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Originally Posted by Dregenfox

TBH when I'm pushing max DPS I'll actually get less commends

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I will second this, or at least the flipside: I only do a minimum amount of DPS, but I keep the tank above 50% most of the dungeon, I don't wait until he's 30% or less to start casting, and I only throw some stones during the last 2 or so mobs and only an Aero III near the beginning (I usually Benison the tank to give me enough time to safely land Aero III before the Cure spam starts) and I routinely walk away with 3/3 or 2/3 comms (unless the tank is exceptional, that is).

People in random DF groups seem to enjoy a healer who pays more attention to HP meters than their personal DPS parses. Now, granted, I don't do absolutely zero damage at all, I try to get at least a little in, but I'm not trying to maximize or any of that crap. I'm just keeping people alive and helping out wherever I deem it is safe to which is, you know, my job?

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

A non-DPSing healer is almost always an idle/inactive healer. When you observe these players sitting on their hands while healing requirements are low, you know they are the problem.

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That's a HUGE brush to paint with there and I disagree with it. I've spent many, many dungeons not DPSing purely because I couldn't. I was too busy spam healing. And groups simply don't understand this. They read a statement like 'almost always inactive/idle if not DPSing' and than they transfer that onto those of use who can't DPS and say we're just being lazy. I've used almost all my MP on pulls just spam healing and I've still been called lazy for not DPSing. If I can't put regen on a tank without fear of him dying in the GCD, why would I be DPSing?

I think this whole attitude needs to die in a fire. Dungeons don't *need* healer DPS. It's the icing on the cake, if we can give it.

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Originally Posted by Alisi

That's a HUGE brush to paint with there and I disagree with it. I've spent many, many dungeons not DPSing purely because I couldn't. I was too busy spam healing.

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I covered this in my comments.

I really think this whole arguement could be squashed if SE just removed dps spell cast bars from the party list. I don't get to see what skills and abilities the tanks and melee dps are using, the rest of them shouldn't be able to see what spells I'm casting as a healer.

You not ded? You should be happy, lol.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I'm usually contributing somewhere between 20 to 30% of the group's overall DPS across the run in solo queue roulettes. It's very dooable to save as much as 10 minutes if you get unlucky on the DPS.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

If your DPS are this terrible, it's not the not-DPSing healer's fault for the run taking so long.

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The example Sebazy provided isn't necessarily either an exaggeration or an isolated incidence of DPS being unusually awful.

Healers really can carry a huge amount of AoE DPS relative to some dedicated DPS Jobs just because their AoE kits are simple, strong, and fairly bursty (WHM obviously shines here in a big way). If the tank rotates CDs well and is otherwise skilled and geared, the healer can do a lot to speed up trash pulls in particular.

Anyway, we would have a lot less debate about healers doing damage if more players would simply accept a few notions:

1. It's possible, feasible, and effective to weave healing and damage-dealing actions together in the same encounter, as the situation calls for it. It's even perfectly possible to do this while keeping everyone at a very comfortable HP threshold (i.e. not scaring random players who aren't familiar with your playstyle).

2. There is nothing wrong with doubling down on healing if you need to; conversely, there is nothing wrong with focusing on damage-dealing where healing requirements are light and you know the encounter. The beauty of playing a healer is that you have great power and flexibility to adapt to situations.

3. Allowing uninformed feedback to affect your gameplay is a mistake. Your undergeared tank pulls half the dungeon, neglects his CDs, and then gets on your case for your failure to AoE the mobs? Big deal; you know you aren't at fault. Your DPS whines because you leave him at 75% HP for a few GCDs to focus down an important add in a boss fight while no damage is going out? Why would you entertain this person's opinion when they clearly have no idea what's going on?

<sarcasm> It's because it's too risky switching on and off cleric stance </sarcasm>

At the opposite side, OP, what I see often these days, is healers who do DPS (myself included) and constantly witness Red mages and Paladins use their Clemency and Vercure for e-ve-ry sin-gle hit.

When asked about why they would do that when the healer isn't dead, they reply " I wasn't sure you were gonna heal"

I can't even begin to count how many times I wasted Tetras / Benediction on guys who healed themselves rather than focusing on their tasks.

Always Be Casting.

I'm going to preface this by saying that I enjoy dpsing as a healer, if only because the effects are shiny and many dps abilities can be tied into how you heal effectively. However, I think it should only be fair to mention that for some people dps'ing as a healer can be difficult with a controller setting, as ability bloat is felt much more acutely in this setting. For example, as a Scholar, I rarely use dps abilities outside of Shadow Flare and Broil because of how many slots on my hotbars are taken by fairy micromanagement. This is less true for Astro and pretty much a non issue for White Mage though.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

It's not a DPS's responsibility to heal or tank (some of them do have the kit for it), so how is it that a healer HAS to DPS just because it's available to them. First and foremost the healer has to heal, with DPS being optional. Also how is it being lazy just because you want to be selfish and have "faster runs"? It's not difficult to ask a healer when a duty starts if they can DPS more, but they are under no obligation to be dictated by the tank. Heal yourself if you want faster runs or use Party Finder, simple stuff bub.

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I was bored and browsing this thread, then I came with this post with rather... backwards logic (no offence meant to poster in any form).

So, it is not a DPS's responsibility to manage aggro or help the group's survival.. Hence, I won't use Deiversion/Lucid Dreaming, I will run ahead of tank and pull because it increases MY DPS!!! I won't dodge any AoE because it reduces MY DPS!! And since MY DPS is MY RESPONSIBILITY, I will kick the healer and tank that don't adjust to my DPS needs. I won't adjust to mechanics even if it wipes the group because it would lower my DPS which is my sole responsibility.

See how idiotic that sounds?

Just as group survival is a "group effort", group aggro and fight mechanics are "group efforts", so should killing things faster be a "group effort". The whole group should contribute towards the objective of "winning".

~ Phoenicia ~

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Originally Posted by Taika

All healers have MP-free heals, WHM has Lucid, Assize and Thin Air, SCH has Lucid, Aetherflow and Energy Drain, AST has Lucid and Ewer (yeah not as good as it relies on RNG but anyways).

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And I'm not running out of mp - only - healing. I run out of mp if I dps with BAD tanks because on hairy situations I won't have much mp left to keep them from dying when I need to blow everything because they pulled more than they can handle. And everything you listed there has a cooldown. And don't worry, I did my homework as a healer, but you can only do so much when the tank is clueless and hopes to be carried by heals.

I'll just simply note that there will be a chance for you to DPS, and it's for you to decide when to DPS.
If a stranger sues your playstyle, don't care about it and stick with what works for you. No matter what.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

*enters dungeon*
*Tank mashes sprint button and grabs 3 packs of mobs*
*I catch up to the almost dead tank and give him Benediction*
*I get locked into chain-casting Cure2, not having enough time or MP to do anything else*

How again was I supposed to DPS?

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The DPS meta is a bit misleading. The general rule people follow is to Always. Be. Casting; your ABCs if you will. :D

If I do the mega pull in Shisui or Ala Mhigo, I don't expect any DPS from you otherwise, I'll die within seconds. If you're able to plan ahead and set up Swiftcast -> Holy -> Aero III while I have Hallowed or Living up, I'll love you for it, but I certainly don't expect it from DF. That's a bit more of a raider mentality. It's the people who stand around while at near full MP that annoy others. And that ire isn't reserved for healers. It drives me up the wall whenever I see a DPS who won't aoe during mass pulls, especially those bigger ones because I know the healer and I simply won't have the CDs to survive if things aren't dying. Had that exact scenario happen in The Vault just the other day. Neither DPS focused those gaints down and one never aoe'd, which eventually killed the healer since she couldn't stop healing me to spam aoe heals. DPS's response? "Samurai does more damage on single targets."

Yeah...

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Originally Posted by Maeka

I will second this, or at least the flipside: I only do a minimum amount of DPS, but I keep the tank above 50% most of the dungeon, I don't wait until he's 30% or less to start casting, and I only throw some stones during the last 2 or so mobs and only an Aero III near the beginning (I usually Benison the tank to give me enough time to safely land Aero III before the Cure spam starts) and I routinely walk away with 3/3 or 2/3 comms (unless the tank is exceptional, that is).

People in random DF groups seem to enjoy a healer who pays more attention to HP meters than their personal DPS parses. Now, granted, I don't do absolutely zero damage at all, I try to get at least a little in, but I'm not trying to maximize or any of that crap. I'm just keeping people alive and helping out wherever I deem it is safe to which is, you know, my job?

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Just a coincidence, really. People generally default to healers or tanks for their comms. I routinely get 2-3 and I'm a very aggressive healer. I've let tanks drop to three digits because I'm timing Benediction, though that isn't usually intention. 10-20% though? Yep. I won't even look at a tank before they drop below 50% other then to toss Regen on them.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

If your DPS are this terrible, it's not the not-DPSing healer's fault for the run taking so long.

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You can blame Donald J Trump for all it matters, it makes little difference who's at fault or whatnot in my eyes. My energy is better spent melting those trash packs than pointing the finger at the rest of the group.

Even in a very decent ~17 minute run, my DPS will have saved around 5 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Just a coincidence, really. People generally default to healers or tanks for their comms. I routinely get 2-3 and I'm a very aggressive healer. I've let tanks drop to three digits because I'm timing Benediction, though that isn't usually intention. 10-20% though? Yep. I won't even look at a tank before they drop below 50% other then to toss Regen on them.

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Agreed, I'm pretty consistent with DPS in dungeons and see the same as you, I'll frequently get 2 or 3 commendations, sometimes I get none. Not everyone can be bothered dishing them out.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I covered this in my comments.

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Yes. I read the one line write off of this. I realize that I should've made myself clearer: you know the difference and I know the difference but John Q. Public (who've never healed) don't know the difference and this is where 95% of the healer flack comes from. They take your one sentence write off of 'A non-DPSing healer is almost always an idle/inactive healer.' and apply it willy nilly. If they're going to slap a label on someone, they're too lazy to do the dirty work of understanding the situation. 80% of the time, you can't count on DPS to rez you if you die (if they have rez), much less understand the nitty gritty situation, the tank, and all that goes into a healers consideration whether to DPS or not to DPS. And don't get me started on tanks... They just see a healer not DPSing and have read that someone said 'A non-DPSing healer is almost always an idle/inactive healer' and apply it to you.

I play Ast and Whm, you wont see me dps a lot on Ast because I dont want to waste a Ewer on myself when I could give a RR Balance/Spear/Arrow instead. I will cast Combust on every target I can tho. On whm tho, I dps in every possible cooldown I have because they have so many MP reduction tool that you cant really go OOM. (And when I play dps (Blm) And I see a tank(A good tank) mass pull and the whm just stand there and dont cast holy/aero 3 I just get sad...

I wanted to resist posting, but I couldn't. I'm probably going to repeat a lot of things I've already written in past threads.

Some of you bring up examples of situations where you cannot dps because you have to constantly heal. For example, a tank pulling a huge group of mobs and taking a ton of damage, or dps players not dodging aoes and getting hit by mechanics.

In these types of cases, it is perfectly understandable to drop dpsing and focus on healing. And it would be unfair if someone pressured you to dps during these kinds of situations. However, nobody is suggesting that you're a bad healer if you only focus on healing during this type of situation, nor is anyone suggesting that healers dps during this type of situation.

I play white mage and I dps whenever I can. But I'll return to healing if it's needed. And sometimes it's needed for the entire duration of a pull.

Sometimes I get great groups in roulette: damage dealers that follow mechanics and avoid aoes, and a tank that uses cooldowns, and this allows me to dps more often.

Sometimes I get groups that are not so great: damage dealers don't do mechanics, are constantly getting hit, tank pulls huge groups of mobs but doesn't use cooldowns, and I have to spam cure. Is it my fault that I wasn't able to dps? No. Does this mean I'm going to decide to never dps as a healer ever again? Of course not.

We have to adapt to every situation we're in. Sometimes we'll find ourselves with more opportunities to dps, and sometimes we won't.

When criticism is directed at inactive/idle healers, we're talking about healers who decide to stay idle when dpsing would be safe and efficient. Nobody is saying healers should be dpsing 100% of the time. That's unrealistic. But when it is safe (damage dealers are fine, tank is taking little damage and has regen up), dpsing would be efficient.

Because if things are going well, most likely you (as a healer) will just stand there idle. That's where the criticism is being directed at.

Healers have a lot of downtime in this game when things are going well. It's enough downtime that we can contribute a fair amount of dps. And that dps can make a difference.

MP isn't much of an issue. Healers in this game have tools that allow us to regenerate or save MP.

Some of you might be getting caught up with the idea, "damage dealers need to do their job so I wouldn't have to pick up their slack".

It doesn't matter if the damage dealers are dealing minimal or maximum amounts of dps. As long as things are going well (nobody's taking constant, unnecessary damage, failing mechanics, etc), and healing isn't required, it is efficient to dps.

If a damage dealer is messing up their rotation and deals minimal damage, that's something they need to work on. But that doesn't mean we as healers can't try to contribute to dps.

This is not about pointing fingers at damage dealers and saying, "you guys need to do your job right so I wouldn't have to dps." Because whether they're dealing minimal or maximum damage, our dps is still going to be helpful.

This is about saying, "I have all these tools that allow me to dps and heal efficiently, and I'm going to try to take advantage of them."

It's about pushing yourself to become a stronger player who can offer more than just the bare minimum.

Dpsing as a healer is a balancing act. It requires a deeper understanding of your toolkit, and knowing how to take full advantage of it. It requires practice and effort, but it's worth it.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

*enters dungeon*
*Tank mashes sprint button and grabs 3 packs of mobs*
*I catch up to the almost dead tank and give him Benediction*
*I get locked into chain-casting Cure2, not having enough time or MP to do anything else*

How again was I supposed to DPS?

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This. All. The. Way.

If I'm not DPSing in a dungeon, it's because of these types of tanks.

However, I don't deny there are plenty of awful healers out there. I see them almost daily.

I don't really care if they DPS or not. What I do care about is when they get so engrossed in DPS that they forget their job and let me die... which was my experience in roulette today. I understand that this just happens on occasion by mistake and I've been guilty of it before too, but whenever it does happen I at least own up to it and apologize for the error. This other guy though, he just immediately bailed from the dungeon without a word. Real low class.

Also, from my own healer perspective, if you megapull so much that I literally have to spam Cure 2 on you just to barely keep you afloat, don't expect DPS out of me.

It's kind of good I've been on the flip side since I've been leveling Paladin solely through SB dungeons, and for the most part it's been a positive experience.


I've ran into a handful good healers that do their job well, and put up considerable dps, some even beating bad red dps. Now of course I've been pretty well geared for each dungeon, so that helps cause of the big DEF jump at 65+. Like I've done the big stretch pulls in Doma Castle with these healers, Hallowed Ground on that big opening pull, and it's back up for the double heavy one before the 2nd boss. It almost brings a tear to my eye to see Gravity/Holy spam for days.

For the record, I usually wear 1-2 STR accessories on the right side, and do much as I can in Sword Oats when possible if the mob count is low enough. Not one single healer complaint. The only time i have ever used Clemency during the leveling process was when a healer died during a boss and we got through it that way. Otherwise it's just Holy Sprit spam for days, because more damage, and getting more Sheltrons to block damage. Amazing how many bad PLDs I had to level with that just flat out don't use this skill but would rather heal themselves because they couldn't trust good healing.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

. I routinely get 2-3 and I'm a very aggressive healer. I've let tanks drop to three digits because I'm timing Benediction, though that isn't usually intention. 10-20% though? Yep. I won't even look at a tank before they drop below 50% other then to toss Regen on them.

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This is how I proceed as well, but the way you put it is a bit misleading those who would be tempted to try to dps more and end up tunnel-visionning, to whom I'll add this precision :

We do look at the tank HPs - constantly - and at the Damage dealers' HPs - constantly. We also look at the aoes on the ground, all the time, and we do have our eyes on a dangerous enemy or a boss' s castbar to predict when the damage is coming, to decide when and what type of healing is the most appropriate (if any) Besides that, we try to keep an eye out on Damage Dealers 's positionning as well, to precast a cure or anticipate a Tetra / Benison / Bene, if needs be.

This type of agressive healing is not something you wanna try "out of nowhere", in the middle of an expert dungeon. Instead, it's recommended to try at lower levels, and progressively get used to it, so that you can in the end reach that type of surgery-healing.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

You can blame Donald J Trump for all it matters, it makes little difference who's at fault or whatnot in my eyes. My energy is better spent melting those trash packs than pointing the finger at the rest of the group.

Even in a very decent ~17 minute run, my DPS will have saved around 5 minutes..

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I mean, I prefer to DPS as a healer too, or else I get bored, but seriously, if your DPS are that awful, and then somebody is going to point at the healer and say "they should have DPSed more! That's why the run took so long!" that would be completely wrong.

Also, are we talking about AST DPS? Because if that's the case, I'd like to know what you're doing on an AST to do so much DPS that you save about 5 minutes on the run.

I just don't feel it's worth the time to complain about it and put others down. I've run hundreds of roulettes, if I was fighting with every healer that didn't DPS, I'd just constantly be in a bad mood. It's better to just accept that when you play with randoms, you're going to get bad players a lot of the time, or players in different situations (old/disabled) and you're likely not going to change their mind by yelling at them to DPS or they're shit players.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

I mean, I prefer to DPS as a healer too, or else I get bored, but seriously, if your DPS are that awful, and then somebody is going to point at the healer and say "they should have DPSed more! That's why the run took so long!" that would be completely wrong.

Also, are we talking about AST DPS? Because if that's the case, I'd like to know what you're doing on an AST to do so much DPS that you save about 5 minutes on the run.

I just don't feel it's worth the time to complain about it and put others down. I've run hundreds of roulettes, if I was fighting with every healer that didn't DPS, I'd just constantly be in a bad mood. It's better to just accept that when you play with randoms, you're going to get bad players a lot of the time, or players in different situations (old/disabled) and you're likely not going to change their mind by yelling at them to DPS or they're shit players.

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Exactly this, if people want DPS Healer, then go with pre-made groups, simple as it is, you can't force such "silly" playstyle on someone who simply does his job.

It's the same damn thing with Tanks wanting to DPS aswell while in reallity even lower it by making healers job even harder, let people play aslong they do there job what they are supposed to do.

Yes, in this MMO you can and maybe could do damage, but you should not be forced to it, i speak as main Healer how much i keep my eyes on the Groups Health and what the Boss does, i can't at times simply not bother to try to be "helpful" with DPS.

If DPS is to low you might simply consider that some DD simply not done its job right or keept dieing due AoE's and there lack of movement, maybe even due Healer was DPSing also.

I rather have a rather normal group with each class doing its job then trying to compensate something that was the job of others, yes if the heal has time he can DPS but not as example wih Tanks thinking THEY have to DPS, less heal on them and i have time for Buffs, Debuffs or Damage, depending on what fight i am in.

I have seen enough healers burning there mana down because of this whole "rush" attitude lately alot seem ot have in this Addon and honestly, this can drive people away of the game including myself, if people want such to happen, go on and keep harass people about how oyu sohuld think they should play.

There is a simple difference between giving advice and/or insulting people for there playstyle.

Those kind of people are the ones who should stop playing and leave the rest alone, i rather have average players around me doing failures like a simple human beeing instead of so called "pro gamer" that play likea robot without any emotion, just for the goal and then lash out at you for beeing "human".

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Originally Posted by Elamys

Also, are we talking about AST DPS? Because if that's the case, I'd like to know what you're doing on an AST to do so much DPS that you save about 5 minutes on the run.

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Play like a scumbag, get combusts and regen up whilst things are moving, be casting malefics/gravities whilst they aren't. Don't be afraid to card yourself, if the DPS aren't Aoeing well, try to save up an enhanced balance or spear during bosses to use on the trash that follows, ewers are gold and you'll quickly want to throw themselves on yourself to keep those gravities coming. Try to plan CO, if you can extend a CU and regen on the tank along with a useful card on yourself that's a huge boon right there. Same goes for Dilating Boles and regens on the tank. Don't heal the DPS unless they need it to survive or unavoidable AoEs are inc. But yes, it's intensive and TBH, WHM is significantly less thought for about 30% more DPS in dungeons. It's absolutely dooable with a little practice but you need to learn to get a good feel for what you can get away with without causing more trouble than your DPS is worth. A large caveat of course is the tanks positioning and agro, I've had runs where I had to hold off on my DPS purely because I would pull agro on multiple mobs with a few aoes. Not to mention Gravity is a little more dependant on a tank stacking mobs tidily than Holy.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

I just don't feel it's worth the time to complain about it and put others down.

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Absolutely agreed, it's why I avoided the main topic at hand just to clarify how much a healer can contribute when the situation allows it. I'll try to coach people a little bit if they are willing, but that's very rarely the case. A good portion of bads (for lack of a better term, sorry) simply aren't that interested or indeed capable of playing at a higher level. Be it a lack of motor skills and coordination, netflix or whatever. As you state, it's far healthier just to suck it up and crack on with the task at hand, rock the boat too much and you just end up in the water looking a bit silly =(

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Originally Posted by Saix027

If DPS is to low you might simply consider that some DD simply not done its job right or keept dieing due AoE's and there lack of movement, maybe even due Healer was DPSing also.

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I actually had a Monk complain about my Healer DPS in Baelsar's Wall once.... We wiped twice to Captain Sloppy because both the guy was ignoring both the collar and middle sword, all after a run that was mildly sedate but otherwise entirely flawless. Highly ironic. Any DPS that's crying purely because the Healer is also DPSing needs to get a grip. If the healer is causing wipes because they are tunnel visioning on their damage then sure, that's fair. Otherwise, that's just pathetic.

Sorry to be harsh but I think a reality check is needed there, these sort of threads are typically a waste of time because of the amount of situations that get spewed around that might as well be in a fairy tail.

The whole 'I can't DPS because the tank pops sprint at the start of the dungeon and pulls everything' is another classic along these lines. That is *far* from the norm, and if you do find it happening, just try asking them nicely if they could slow down a bit.

Eh, that still feels like an exaggeration for AST DPS in a dungeon, even with playing as aggressively as possible. At this point I'd wager it's more a gear gap between you and the DPS than anything. WHM DPS is stronk tho.

PF = Healer DPS or boot.
Static = Healers do what they're comfortable with, along with a supportive group who understands they don't pay your subscription.

My point. Expect the flaming and salt in PF groups. It's where the hardcore turds hang out. If you don't want to deal with that, form a static group. You will likely learn more with a static as well.

Dear tanks who eat as much !@#% as possible.

As a tank, I have exactly 0 expectations that my healer, whose job it is to heal, thus the name healer, is supposed to do damage. If they do some DPS then great. If not, the world continues to spin and we still clear the level maybe 5 minutes slower, max. I can skim one less Reddit article before I go to bed.

Don't get me wrong, the more DPS the better. But it's so little of a deal if the healer chooses not to DPS that I'm surprised this thread got to 7 pages.

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Originally Posted by Shadowblind

As a tank, I have exactly 0 expectations that my healer, whose job it is to heal, thus the name healer, is supposed to do damage. If they do some DPS then great. If not, the world continues to spin and we still clear the level maybe 5 minutes slower, max. I can skim one less Reddit article before I go to bed.

Don't get me wrong, the more DPS the better. But it's so little of a deal if the healer chooses not to DPS that I'm surprised this thread got to 7 pages.

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Out of curiosity, when you're not tanking, would you be ok with a tank who would do (close to) 0 DPS (assuming they would be able to keep hate)? Would you also consider that not a big deal at all?

Sure, if the healer was DPSing the amount I would be in place of said tank. Thankfully, that hypothetical situation is impossible to accomplish in FFXIV with the exception of a PLD who only used flash . . . which has probably never happened ever. Conversely a healer not DPSing can still occur while they do their job and the three other members do their respective jobs. And the dungeon would not be significantly longer for it.

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Originally Posted by Shadowblind

Sure, if the healer was DPSing the amount I would be in place of said tank. Thankfully, that hypothetical situation is impossible to accomplish in FFXIV with the exception of a PLD who only used flash . . . which has probably never happened ever. Conversely a healer not DPSing can still occur while they do their job and the three other members do their respective jobs. And the dungeon would not be significantly longer for it.

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But let's say you'd have a PLD who'd only Flash to keep hate (I'm only leveling PLD right now, it's 65, but so far seems possible), and a healer who'd only heal. You would be missing out on at least the DPS of one extra DD in the party, and leaving all the DPS on the 2 DDs. Would you consider that acceptable? Would it be somehow more acceptable for the healer to not DPS than the PLD, and if so, why?

To me, being a healer main from 1.0 until early SB (AST was my first 70), it's always been self-evident to me that DPS is part of my job, just like it is when I'm tanking, and I've never understood people who see it wouldn't be. And it's not about "dungeon taking longer" or not, it's about being able to be useful to your party - so why would you choose not to be?

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Originally Posted by Shadowblind

Sure, if the healer was DPSing the amount I would be in place of said tank. Thankfully, that hypothetical situation is impossible to accomplish in FFXIV with the exception of a PLD who only used flash . . . which has probably never happened ever.

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I distinctly remember someone on here doing a Baelsar's Wall run as DRK (Perhaps with a healer that didn't DPS as well? I forget the specifics) and they tanked the entire thing end to end with flash. To say it was a slow run was an understatement. Hopefully someone has a link to the youtube replay of it.

Again, do not underestimate how much DPS a healer can put out on trash packs, ~20-30% of a groups DPS is both very realistic and significant in my book.

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Originally Posted by Taika

To me, being a healer main from 1.0 until early SB (AST was my first 70), it's always been self-evident to me that DPS is part of my job, just like it is when I'm tanking, and I've never understood people who see it wouldn't be. And it's not about "dungeon taking longer" or not, it's about being able to be useful to your party - so why would you choose not to be?

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For me in regards to healing, the cake is the healing aspect. The icing(which isn't needed for all cakes) is the DPS. Does it make the cake more enjoyable for the majority of people? Sure, but it isn't needed.
Though, I also find healing boring when I don't DPS at the same time(if the tank is doing small pulls).
It's really all up to 2 main things:
1. How new/comfortable is the healer with being able to DPS and heal at the same time?
2. How big of a pull with/without cool downs is the tank doing?

Saying that healer must DPS is just an opinion, and based on personal skill/experience. Newer healers I don't expect to see them DPS, and won't tell them to, since I want them to get comfortable with healing/knowing when to throw those large heals out.

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Originally Posted by Taika

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You make a good point and one I ultimately agree with: if you CAN dps, do it. The difference between tank dps and healer DPS is that FFXIV has been designed in such a way that the tank generally does need to do damage to keep aggro. To do their job, they have to DPS. Even if a PLD only wanted to Flash, he'd have to use riot blade pretty consistently to maintain MP. For a healer to do their job, they don't need to do damage at all. And the party could still pass.

I'll maintain that a healer who can DPS will always be more appreciated that one who can't. And for speedrunner groups or high end players, that DPS may be mandatory. However, For me and others who play the game casually, I don't check to see if the healer is DPSing or not. I don't parse DPS. It's never made my experience more or less enjoyable, save for grinding Titan EX and Titan HM.


Whether a healer DPS or not is up to them should they run a party with me. I wouldn't get mad unless we consistently drop due to lack of healing. However if they DO dps then I'll probably commend them. It's an added bonus in my estimation. BTW if I came off standoffish, apologies! Never meant to since I both see your PoV and in many ways agree with it. TL;DR for me, if a healer does DPS, cool. If not, alright. Long as they keep healing, haha.

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Originally Posted by Crewman

PF = Healer DPS or boot.
Static = Healers do what they're comfortable with, along with a supportive group who understands they don't pay your subscription.

My point. Expect the flaming and salt in PF groups. It's where the hardcore turds hang out. If you don't want to deal with that, form a static group. You will likely learn more with a static as well.

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Your backwards train of thoughts is disturbing. PFs are where idiots thinking they are pro try to impose the 1% playstyle to everyone else, while playing subpar at best themselves. If I see a healer dpsing in PF, it's christmas before the day

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I distinctly remember someone on here doing a Baelsar's Wall run as DRK (Perhaps with a healer that didn't DPS as well? I forget the specifics) and they tanked the entire thing end to end with flash. To say it was a slow run was an understatement. Hopefully someone has a link to the youtube replay of it.

Again, do not underestimate how much DPS a healer can put out on trash packs, ~20-30% of a groups DPS is both very realistic and significant in my book.

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But . . . how? Don't they need MP? And more importantly, why??? That couldn't possibly be fun o_o

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Originally Posted by Avatre

For me in regards to healing, the cake is the healing aspect. The icing(which isn't needed for all cakes) is the DPS. Does it make the cake more enjoyable for the majority of people? Sure, but it isn't needed.

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That's not an argument I'm especially keen on TBH. By all rights you could clear an instance with everyone mashing 1 ability. It might well take 90 minutes to do so but you'll get there eventually right? Anything more than that isn't needed.

The whole 'I'm a healer and that's the end of that' mentality is woefully outdated and frankly a hinderance. We are supports and IMHO we are there to make the run better in whatever way we can. If that involves mashing cure 2 on a tank that's taking an absolute pasting then so be it. If it involves spending time DPSing rather than twiddling our thumbs then game on. Adapt to the situation at hand and get on with it.

It doesn't matter if a non DPSing healer is being lazy, one dimensional, simply lacking in talent or would just rather watch Netflix. Much better that they stop making excuses and try to expand their horizons a little bit at a time <3

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Originally Posted by Shadowblind

But . . . how? Don't they need MP? And more importantly, why??? That couldn't possibly be fun o_o

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Blood price for days (and days and days). It was in response to a thread not too dissimilar to this one ;)

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Blood price for days (and days and days). It was in response to a thread not too dissimilar to this one ;)

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Oh wow. That's awful. Sounds like one of the only good things to come from the Blood Price nerf. XD

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Again, do not underestimate how much DPS a healer can put out on trash packs, ~20-30% of a groups DPS is both very realistic and significant in my book.

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Also indicative of DPS that don't have even the most basic understanding of their job or class.

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Originally Posted by Taika

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I remember doing many early level dungeons where the PLD had nothing but RoH combo and healers very rarely DPS'd way back before Heavensward. We got through the dungeons just fine. The mobs are designed with 2 DPS in mind.