Raid loot is ridiculous

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

WoW raid tier loot is better for casual players. You run the dungeon and you get your gear for the week, no token needed. If you are a hardcore raider you do the higher tiers, I assume the gear is similar, but I'm not sure, I'm not in a raid guild.

This token system is horrible and bland, I agree with the OP.

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The system itself is stupid, yes, but it allready IS better than the system we had before - meaning, that if you get the token you get your specific loot.
In the days of original ARR you only got the 2 items, not 2 tokens. You had to be lucky to get the loot you wanted, plus you could only kill each boss once a week.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

The system itself is stupid, yes, but it allready IS better than the system we had before - meaning, that if you get the token you get your specific loot.
In the days of original ARR you only got the 2 items, not 2 tokens. You had to be lucky to get the loot you wanted, plus you could only kill each boss once a week.

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The loot system in WoW is like how loot is distributed in the leveling dungeons. You only get one piece of loot that is ranked to the level of content you do, and it is attuned to your class.

There are other games, it is pointless to think this loot is good just because it is better then what it was in the games' past. The dev team need to get ideas from outside sources. Please don't compare it to how it used to be in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Stuffz

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1. I am comparing it to how it was 2.5 years ago, not how it was in original FF14. They switched it to tokens because people kept complaining about not beeing able to get loot due to RNG.
2. I don't care how the loot works in WoW. That games is entirely different in terms of End Game Content.
3. I liked the old system. You killed the boss, you got loot which dropped directly for the classes, and then you couldnt kill him anymore until next week.
Because of crybabies they switched to the token system, which is tedious, boring and lazy. But it helps getting loot quicker.
Nontheless, people still complain. Get ahold of yourself!

Oh, and one last thing: The Dev team doesnt need to do anything. You want them to change a system, but they dont need to.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

1. I am comparing it to how it was 2.5 years ago, not how it was in original FF14. They switched it to tokens because people kept complaining about not beeing able to get loot due to RNG.
2. I don't care how the loot works in WoW. That games is entirely different in terms of End Game Content.
3. I liked the old system. You killed the boss, you got loot which dropped directly for the classes, and then you couldnt kill him anymore until next week.
Because of crybabies they switched to the token system, which is tedious, boring and lazy. But it helps getting loot quicker.
Nontheless, people still complain. Get ahold of yourself!

Oh, and one last thing: The Dev team doesnt need to do anything. You want them to change a system, but they dont need to.

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Because people like bringing up WoW, It took me 84 Heroic Mechanar runs just to see Suneater drop, which i promptly lost to a Hunter.
I cleared Karazhan weekly on my Warrior back during Burning Crusade for the entire expansion barring a month or so when i was leveling/gearing it.
I was after one specific drop, the shield. Know when i finally looted it? 2 weeks before Wrath of the Lich King launched. Wasn't even an upgrade, because by then i was wearing a welfare epic from Shattered Sun dailies ...
And continuing my absurdly bad luck, I killed Lich King with an i200 blue welfare shield because no shield ever dropped at any point during the entire godsdamned expansion. I did finally get the shield off Airship though ... After my Guild had LK on farm for a few months.
I wish i was exaggerating, But I'm not. Not that any of you will believe it.

In my experience and opinion, XIVs token system is the superior way of handling loot. Knowing that as long as I'm putting the effort into clearing the raid/trial, I'm guaranteed to get upgrades eventually is a great motivator to continue clearing it.
There is nothing more depressing than never seeing an upgrade for months at a time because RNGesus hates you.
Here in XIV, I don't need to subject myself to months of clears for a single item drop.
You call it tedium, I call it the cure for the textbook definition of insanity.

Setting up a pf group and have everyone roll on what they need is probably the quickest way instead of having to rely on rng (in some cases)

I mean, if it's not savage raid or higher to come, imo, not really worth the time if you don't want to work for the items, nor wait. As is we've kind of made pretty big gear jumps so far.
Skipping the 320 set, unless you really want it for looks and what not, not exactly earth shattering.

I think the problem is that we go through gear so quick. I mean this week is the 1st week people can get Genta body pieces and it's already outclassed by lost allagan gear that you can also get this week.

SE, pace yourself lol.

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Originally Posted by Recruiter

I think the problem is that we go through gear so quick. I mean this week is the 1st week people can get Genta body pieces and it's already outclassed by lost allagan gear that you can also get this week.

SE, pace yourself lol.

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Or, hear me out, you can use genta stuff to gear a 2nd class! People complain they cant gear more than 1 job for endgame, then they give you the ability to do that, and people dont use the method they give XD

A change is needed, I hate the raid loot system as well, by the time I finally assemble a whole set something even stronger is added to the game and what I just got is no longer useful!...

Honestly, the ones that seem to enjoy the game the most are those that decide to endure the Savage raid regimen, the loot system is still ridiculous for them with the pages but they also get loot directly from chests and they always have the coolest things!...

I believe Square Enix and the Producer should implement a similar system for the normal raids where a piece of gear that a player can use would drop at the end, just like in leveling dungeons, this way we wouldn't be enslaved into raiding week after week for gear that is not really worth the amount of stress it creates while getting it, said otherwise, I DO NOT HAVE FUN farming for loot in raids!...

SE must expand the loot system in leveling dungeons to every duty in the game, this way we will have the stuff we want without wasting unnecessary time!...

As someone who doesn't raid savage I actually enjoy the loot system as it is now. It's far better than what I was used to in WoW, granted I did leave before the LFR system was actually up and running in its current form. Oh I can only kill the boss once a week and if there was no drop I'm sol? Especially when you farm the item forever only to lose it to the other tank and never see it again. On top of it you can queue as any class and use this gear for a completely different class without worrying you won't be able to need on it, any easier than this and they might as well hand us gear for logging in... oh wait that's tome gear. As for the way Savage is, of course they get cooler things and different set ups. It's an incentive to actually draw players in to do the savage level of content, otherwise the only ones that would do it would be the ones in it for the bragging rights.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Or, hear me out, you can use genta stuff to gear a 2nd class! People complain they cant gear more than 1 job for endgame, then they give you the ability to do that, and people dont use the method they give XD

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That's going to be my go-to method for the next month more or less. I'm going to really, really hate Omega by the end of this expansion.

Actually... you can trade tokens that you have 100% chance to get at every clear for the very same drops that fall on the raid, so I REALLY don't get your point.

There's RNG-less alternative: crafted gear of the same ilevel. Struggling with raid RNG is a price you have to pay if you can't afford it.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Actually... you can trade tokens that you have 100% chance to get at every clear for the very same drops that fall on the raid, so I REALLY don't get your point.

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Where do I get this?

Deltascape certainly doesn't. The EX trial's do, but what about Deltascape and the many Exdeath's of Shafts?

Why do you need twice as many shafts and springs to get their corresponding equipment? I do not understand that design choice

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

WoW raid tier loot is better for casual players. You run the dungeon and you get your gear for the week, no token needed. If you are a hardcore raider you do the higher tiers, I assume the gear is similar, but I'm not sure, I'm not in a raid guild.

This token system is horrible and bland, I agree with the OP.

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The problem with WoW's raid loot isn't in how they award it, it's in the RNG built into what you end up getting.

Hey, you got your drop...and it wasn't what you wanted/needed, and even if it was the right item it could roll stats/ilvl in such a way that it's not even an upgrade.

We have the exact opposite issue - you're not guaranteed to get a drop, but when you do you know exactly what you're going to get.

It works very well. Some weeks you get lucky and win a particular item on the first try. Other weeks you don't get lucky and end up running it multiple times until you acquire what it is that you seek.

In both cases, people are running the content and providing a pool of players that can be tapped into whenever someone signs up for a duty. That would not happen if you only had to do it once and acquire everything - because the queue times would be much longer.

If you want to make it 'easier' and not rely on luck then form a party through the party finder to run it multiple times until everybody gets loot. Or just do it with trusted friends. There's multiple options available to you to make it less tedious - and you could always just not run the content altogether if it bothers you so much. Chances are you're running it for a reason, though - and then once the treadmill advances you'll be running something else over and over again. So if it's truly so unbearable why not just stop? Or you can grin and bear it/find ways to make it more fun for you.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Why do you need twice as many shafts and springs to get their corresponding equipment? I do not understand that design choice

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For the same reason because body and legs cost more in tomestones? Because it offer much higher stat increase? Shouldn't it be obvious.

So you'd rather prefer wow's system that is locking token for 3 specific class instead of everyone which mean less chance to get what you need?

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Because people like bringing up WoW, It took me 84 Heroic Mechanar runs just to see Suneater drop, which i promptly lost to a Hunter.
I cleared Karazhan weekly on my Warrior back during Burning Crusade for the entire expansion barring a month or so when i was leveling/gearing it.
I was after one specific drop, the shield. Know when i finally looted it? 2 weeks before Wrath of the Lich King launched. Wasn't even an upgrade, because by then i was wearing a welfare epic from Shattered Sun dailies ...
And continuing my absurdly bad luck, I killed Lich King with an i200 blue welfare shield because no shield ever dropped at any point during the entire godsdamned expansion. I did finally get the shield off Airship though ... After my Guild had LK on farm for a few months.
I wish i was exaggerating, But I'm not. Not that any of you will believe it.

In my experience and opinion, XIVs token system is the superior way of handling loot. Knowing that as long as I'm putting the effort into clearing the raid/trial, I'm guaranteed to get upgrades eventually is a great motivator to continue clearing it.
There is nothing more depressing than never seeing an upgrade for months at a time because RNGesus hates you.
Here in XIV, I don't need to subject myself to months of clears for a single item drop.
You call it tedium, I call it the cure for the textbook definition of insanity.

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I feel ya. Different game, Rift, but we hit Akylios and took 2 months to get one boss down, then we farmed for 3 more and I never did get the sword. I eventually gave up a went to PVP for the 2nd best sword in game. That was a tough boss as others went 4 months stuck on him, before the nerf.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

I don't understand how people have the nerve to complain about the current system, which is allready a huge step into "easy peasy" from the original way raid loot worked.

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It's not even a question of difficulty so much as how RNG can make it herpaderp easy for some people while making it a nightmare grind for others.

And can people please knock it off with the whole "You think THIS is bad...?" nonsense?

Fresh roadkill doesn't taste like prime rib just because month-old roadkill exists...

I think this mentality is the result of SE spoiling the playerbase with hands down the best option to acquire raid gear in existence. They could always do it the traditional way of adding boss or raid lockouts so you aren't able to get anything off any of the bosses if you've killed them already. The system is fine, dealing with bad groups is the nature of pugging, you are already guaranteed to get the loot you need by the fact that you can keep killing the same boss over and over until you win the piece you need. Nothing needs to change.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Nothing needs to change.

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Except the amount of shafts & springs needed to trade.

Hand me the loot in the mailbox the thread.

Honestly, I'd much rather prefer a better way of handling tomes. At the very least, let any uncollected tomes from a week carry over to the next -- so if you get 400, you'll actually get 450 + 50 the following week. It's not the raid lock out that's frustrating - it's the tomestone system.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

I see it in PF now and then but its a good idea. If you need stuff from a certain turn, make a PF for those who have cleared and set the expectation to run it 4 times, by that time everyone should have the desired piece needed then you move on to the next one if need be. If it works out well, friend invite and meet up next week to do it again.

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This is the answer

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

I don't understand how people have the nerve to complain about the current system, which is allready a huge step into "easy peasy" from the original way raid loot worked.

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It's not because you climbed one step that you have reached the top of the staircase.

If the loot system bothers you, why not get the crafted stuff? If it's too expensive, level your crafters and make it yourself. The whole point of the randomized loot rolls is to ensure people continuously run it. If I could get all four of my drops in a couple of runs. I'd go in Tuesday morning and not touch it again until the following Tuesday. Crafted gear was made for people who don't want to battle RNG.

OP, would your rather have traditional-style raid drops? Meaning you go in with 24-36 people and maybe 2-3 people get drops on pure RNG and the rest get nothing?

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

Lotsa Stuff

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The thing is, unless you go do Savage, you don't need anything else than tome-stone gear. There is exactly 0 content you can do where you would need the 320 Items from Omega Normal - eexcept savage.

Many of you are missing the point though.
For those that always have horrid luck and only possible to ever get drops is to go with a full group that all have their loot already.. .the system is flawed
And this topic that OP started goes for every content , 24 man raids i think would shine more on the issue.
At least Omega if/when you get a drop at least you will be guaranteed a piece eventually, 24 man's you do not and can spend 70+ runs for certain gear like i have in CT back in the day for the caster chest as example.
And yes at the time it actually was the best gear...

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Originally Posted by Maero

Many of you are missing the point though.
For those that always have horrid luck and only possible to ever get drops is to go with a full group that all have their loot already.. .the system is flawed
And this topic that OP started goes for every content , 24 man raids i think would shine more on the issue.
At least Omega if/when you get a drop at least you will be guaranteed a piece eventually, 24 man's you do not and can spend 70+ runs for certain gear like i have in CT back in the day for the caster chest as example.
And yes at the time it actually was the best gear...

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Guaranteed drops for your class in anything that is remotely end content is a huge joke.

Edit: You even said it yourself. It was the best gear. You shouldnt be able to get the best gear for free after getting carried through a raid by beeing idle all the time.
And don't kid yourself, thats what people do and will do.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Where do I get this?
Deltascape certainly doesn't. The EX trial's do, but what about Deltascape and the many Exdeath's of Shafts?

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They are called Deltascape Datalogs, and function similarly to the Gordian/Midan/Alexandrian manifestos. You can trade them at the same vendor you trade the tokens from NM.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

The thing is, unless you go do Savage, you don't need anything else than tome-stone gear. There is exactly 0 content you can do where you would need the 320 Items from Omega Normal - eexcept savage.

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Whether or not I need the item level that comes attached to raid gear is unimportant, what I want are the cool glamours that can only be obtained from Savage, in the case of Heavensward, said gear is not only dyable but it's also slightly different from the normal raid gear, therefore, much more desirable!...

I really, really like how (normal) raid loot works in this game. It's miles ahead of everything else. You are not praying that the boss drops the item you want, and hope you win the roll. The drops are (relatively) fixed and you're just rolling against your teammates. You, as a player, can set a clear objective for what you want to work towards and get it. It's the most friendly raid loot system in existence.

Now I do entirely PUG (no FC has taken my fancy, yet) so I do understand the frustration of running a single fight repeatedly; however, I'd rather have that than, say, the WoW system--whether it is personal or group loot--and go three, four bosses without anything dropping that I can use, nevermind what is actually good for my character. As an aside, this last point I think is really important: classes / jobs can get more loot in other games, but so much of the drops are simply unusable.

I really hope the system never changes.

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Originally Posted by Final-Fantasy

Find something else to do, its already so very easy to get everything, complaining as you are only makes it worse and more easy for everyone. Bring back the days of 2 to 5 years of saving up 10,000 items (FFXI relic) just to get a weapon please.

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Sarcasm aside I'd actually welcome that.
Every single thing you get in this game is trash. Short lived junk. I'd actually welcome the old school ffxi loot system where stuff actually felt cool to get cos you knew it'd last and be worth the effort. Not replaced in a month of getting it.

The current loot model is why players don't raid or meld there gear or go after bis. Cos it gets tossed so quickly it just ain't worth bothering with.

If the loot was more old school I'd spend months going after that +1 star or slightly better secondary stat.. now though? Do it just use whatever's the highest I level be replaced in a couple weeks regardless of whether it's bis or not

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Sarcasm aside I'd actually welcome that.
Every single thing you get in this game is trash. Short lived junk. I'd actually welcome the old school ffxi loot system where stuff actually felt cool to get cos you knew it'd last and be worth the effort. Not replaced in a month of getting it.

The current loot model is why players don't raid or meld there gear or go after bis. Cos it gets tossed so quickly it just ain't worth bothering with.

If the loot was more old school I'd spend months going after that +1 star or slightly better secondary stat.. now though? Do it just use whatever's the highest I level be replaced in a couple weeks regardless of whether it's bis or not

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Eh the opposite is true. Players who raid raid for i) the challenge and ii) the upgrade. You take out the upgrades and motivation for some (not all players) drops.

Also you have some fallacies. I see players gear in-game melded. So yeah, people do meld their gear.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

Eh the opposite is true. Players who raid raid for i) the challenge and ii) the upgrade. You take out the upgrades and motivation for some (not all players) drops.

Also you have some fallacies. I see players gear in-game melded. So yeah, people do meld their gear.

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Ok there's exceptions but generally players don't meld. It's been a bit topic since they added materia. And a fairly common opinion is gear doesn't last long enough to bother melding it. Which is why so much of the t6 materia ends up on the markets because the til is worth more than a temporary stat boost.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Ok there's exceptions but generally players don't meld. It's been a bit topic since they added materia. And a fairly common opinion is gear doesn't last long enough to bother melding it. Which is why so much of the t6 materia ends up on the markets because the til is worth more than a temporary stat boost.

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Well, I think if you looked up players who raid savage, you would see gear fully melded. Anything below that... well I don't think people avoid melding because they view it as a temporary stat boost. It simply isn't needed to complete the content.

For me? I meld. Why? What am I going to do with that extra money? Buy a house? No interest--the apartment does me fine. Crafted gear? Nope, not gonna pay anything for that. I get more than enough gil to cover my repairs and consumables just by playing the game--and I don't think I'm alone in this.

I'll take the stat boosts, because money in this game--like many others--is essentially useless, outside of repairs / consumables, which you can acquire without even trying to make money.

Just put in personal loot. If we complete a raid or dungeon, We get a guaranteed item plus a RNG Gear. For instance i go in as a ninja for omega, and finish it. I get a single cluster as my item then a random gear that actually is both for my job and helps increase my ilvl. Im now loot locked until reset. Simple really.