Is there a way to actually use Plenary Indulgence?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sebazy

The issue with that is that we have to Aoe heal frequently enough in O3S and O4S that we would consistently be rolling over confession stacks without even thinking about it. It would be nothing less than a 450 potency 60 second CD insta heal past the first few minutes of O3S and about a minute into O4S. I'm not sure there's a way to make it impactful in casual content without turning it into an Indom grade heal in the end game unfortunately.

---

I don't wanna sound dismissive, but... so? So what if in periods of prolonged grouped AoE healing the skill does really well? That's what it's designed to do. It requires time to be charged, so it's not nearly as good(it's actually a bad choice compared to assize) with sudden aoe damage that you aren't allowed to pre-charge it for. It becomes a worse and worse idea the fewer people are being damaged, and is completely useless for single target healing no matter how sustained it is.
Sure, I don't savage raid. So maybe in this game all healing challenges are sustained AoE ones, but in other games I played you could create many scenarios where healing was important where all the limitations of PI, even if confessions lasted a MINUTE, would add up to a skill that you can't use or don't want to. I just don't see how making the confessions longer breaks it in all high end content forever because it lets it excel in fights where the WHM is free to charge it and will always be using it.

I'll just put in my own input here since this thread is going for a while.

The only thing I'd like to see from PI right now is a small duration boost to Confessions. Somewhere in the line of 12-15s instead of 10s. At least this gives the healer a bit more time to "cultivate" their confession stacks, if you will, depending on the fight.

I've made use of PI a decent amount of times outside of Savage raid too. Sure, I won't be using it basically on CD like I would in Savage, but any scenario a WHM can use Medica + PI over Medica II should be taken. This costs less MP and cast time and provides a higher up front heal. Yes it's less efficient but if you only need a 450 potency heal, why burn more time / MP onto a 700 or 850 potency heal? The entire WHM kit revolves around your oGCD heals and making use of this AoE augmentation oGCD fits the bill just that. Yes, it's no where near as good as Assize, Thin Air, or Tetra; but it's certainly not something worth dismissing either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LathusWHM

Sorry I disagree with you 100% There are plenty of ways to use it in dungeons, but dungeons are also trivial content so why would it matter? For normal raids, you can easily time a quick medica and spam your plenary macro to snipe heal the raid.

Again, people crying over plenary just don't know how to play whm to it's full potential.

---

Tell me which ones? I feel like if you're spamming Medica or Cure 3 in current dungeons something is terribly wrong.
Susano is a perfect place to use it and I don't seem to need it much in Lak. Can't say nothing on Savage yet.
But yes, skill is better than it was, but only towards savage.
I feel like those who DON'T use PI is probably using WHM to it's fullest by keep the group topped with older abilities.

I think most people here would just like a Confession's boost. 10 is way too small.
Give us 30 seconds back or so and I'm golden otherwise it's still not great besides savage. :/
I apologise for making a suggestion and feedback for you to call me a crybaby though, sorry again King of all WHM's.

I'm pretty much on board with Ghishlain, here.

I mean, I get it - it's more useful in savage than outside of it. I'm certainly finding use for it in savage - and this is before significant progression on O3, let alone O4. All those progressing there have already testified to its use in that content.

Outside of savage, sure, I can certainly use it but it's simply superfluous most of the time. Pure healer, yadda yadda, etc etc. It's so unnecessary in most of that content at the moment that I find myself popping it simple for an extra regen tick on a tank sometimes.

Something important to remember, though - all content before savage was designed with the old PI in mind, and it's possible new content, even in dungeons, will let this skill shine a little more in casual use.

I'm in the boat of liking the idea of a small boost to confession timers, up to 15s or so, but anything more than that and I feel other aspects of the ability would have to change to compensate to keep PI in line with what they've envisioned it as. I'd also be fine with a cooldown reduction instead so you can more freely make use of a the one-stack situations (I enjoyed the old PI being on such a short CD, it was a neat thing to have something basically pressable at all times), but that would perhaps have to come with a duration or potency change.

I sympathize with those who'd like for it to be a little more noticeable in casual content. I don't feel it's right to dismiss their feedback in wishing it felt a little better just because it's in a nice place for savage. Sure, we're mostly balanced around raids. We just have to keep everything in check to make sure something useful in savage doesn't become fundamentally broken, especially on the overpowered scale - talking about straight up buffs to it to make it more useful in casual content, then, has to be done pretty carefully since it seems people are pretty cool with it in savage right now. There are plenty of changes aside from potency/duration tweaks that could be investigated should Square choose to, modifying its purpose again altogether in some way. After all, that's literally what just happened with the current PI vs the old.

PI is basically like Deployment Tactics or Emergency Tactics for SCH. It is really useful in Savage raids because things actually hurt and players need to be healed. If you do not raid, you will rarely ever find a situation to use it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lulunami

PI is basically like Deployment Tactics or Emergency Tactics for SCH. It is really useful in Savage raids because things actually hurt and players need to be healed. If you do not raid, you will rarely ever find a situation to use it.

---

Disagree. With DT or ET you can preplan when to use each. PI you can't due to it's randomness. I've said before, healers and tanks both can't play well with randomness, they need stability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

Disagree. With DT or ET you can preplan when to use each. PI you can't due to it's randomness. I've said before, healers and tanks both can't play well with randomness, they need stability.

---

Confessions are generated at a 100% rate. They removed the random element of PI outright so you can plan PI's usage.

I just use it after casting medica or Cure III if people were really low from something.

I think it really doesn't deserve to have a minute long cooldown, or a cooldown at all really...it would be so much more useful if you could just use it anytime you got a confession.

Personally think PI in current iteration is really good for top end raiding. Arguably this is the reason why WHM is favored for OS3 and OS4. Medica II, medica and follow by PI is godsend. and whats more, u get to heal on the move, omg im so pump for this ability.

oh hey, i was actually able to get 3 confession stacks and use them in "normal" content. in omega V1 after the boss drops everybody to 1 HP and follows with an AoE. the healing from full 3 stacks was quite nice, but only beeing able to use it once in a blue moon in normal content is just so much of a letdown

*sigh* dear raiders, please understand that we non-raiders just want it to be a bit more useful. right now it can only be used for +150 aoe potency 95% of the time in normal content, which is VERY underwhelming. there should be a way to balance it better without breaking it in savage content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deos

right now it can only be used for +150 aoe potency 95% of the time in normal content, which is VERY underwhelming.

---

The issue you'd run into trying to make the 3 stacks relevant would cause the healing checks in casual content to be much more punishing to the classes who aren't WHM.

Would you want an encounter to require ~1,350 potency (3 Medica I's + 3 stacks of confessions) of quick aoe healing to safely survive?

Would you want to try to heal that as a SCH without needing to blow multiple cooldowns?

That's my reasoning for why Confession is fine in dungeons as a free half-Medica. Because there's other healers with less aoe healing than us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deos

oh hey, i was actually able to get 3 confession stacks and use them in "normal" content. in omega V1 after the boss drops everybody to 1 HP and follows with an AoE. the healing from full 3 stacks was quite nice, but only beeing able to use it once in a blue moon in normal content is just so much of a letdown *sigh* dear raiders, please understand that we non-raiders just want it to be a bit more useful. right now it can only be used for +150 aoe potency 95% of the time in normal content, which is VERY underwhelming. there should be a way to balance it better without breaking it in savage content.

---

Like others said, boosting PI doesn't make any sense, if you don't even use Cure III on a regular basis. You want more free AoE heals, but tell me, for what?

And with what justification? WHM already has best AoE heals and best MP Management. So ok, you want better PI and impactful?
Ok, if they also do a 50-150 potency nerf to every AoE heal GCD and also Assize. There you go, PI is now much more important.

We want to keep things balanced, right? So if you say "I want better PI" you should also need to say "I'd give up xyz as trade-off.".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neophyte

Like others said, boosting PI doesn't make any sense, if you don't even use Cure III on a regular basis. You want more free AoE heals, but tell me, for what?

And with what justification? WHM already has best AoE heals and best MP Management. So ok, you want better PI and impactful?
Ok, if they also do a 50-150 potency nerf to every AoE heal GCD and also Assize. There you go, PI is now much more important.

We want to keep things balanced, right? So if you say "I want better PI" you should also need to say "I'd give up xyz as trade-off.".

---

I would have been fine if they had done anything else to PI than AoE healing in the first place, because as you said we have a lot of AoE healing already... but yet, you know, Lv70 skill? It'd been nice if our Lv70 skill was actually useful in more than the "occasional S&G skill". It's a letdown, to finally ding 70, see that you learned a new ability that is useful like... 1% of the time, and in only a handful of situations. THIS is supposed to be the "Ultimate" skill we learn? lol.

Do other classes have this problem with their Lv70s as well?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maeka

I would have been fine if they had done anything else to PI than AoE healing in the first place, because as you said we have a lot of AoE healing already... but yet, you know, Lv70 skill? It'd been nice if our Lv70 skill was actually useful in more than the "occasional S&G skill". It's a letdown, to finally ding 70, see that you learned a new ability that is useful like... 1% of the time, and in only a handful of situations. THIS is supposed to be the "Ultimate" skill we learn? lol.

Do other classes have this problem with their Lv70s as well?

---

SCH would trade Aetherpact/Fairy Union for WHM PI in a heart beat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lulunami

SCH would trade Aetherpact/Fairy Union for WHM PI in a heart beat.

---

which is funny after how crazy everybody went to finally get a tether for their fairy when it first was shown in the SB skill trailer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neophyte

We want to keep things balanced, right? So if you say "I want better PI" you should also need to say "I'd give up xyz as trade-off.".

---

in every extension, every job gets new toys to extend their abilities. this time WHM got some mp free time, some more single target dmg, a stoneskin in new clothes, and PI. which means we pretty much only got one new useful ability: thin air. and don't even get me started on that new trait... RNG on top of RNG, yeah thx NO. so we got almost nothing while every other job got some more, some less useful abilities. why should we give up some of our old stuff to get something useful out of PI again? why can't PI just be an ability that is actually useful in any content?

there would be many ways i can think of how to make this ability better. if you think increasing the duration would be too much, then how about some of the other solutions mentioned before here:
- remove the stack mechanic and make it 400 potency flat for everybody that has a confession
- add some kind of utility buff to everybody healed by PI, for example an attackspeed buff, or a little shield
- add confession getting back to cure 1 and 2 (100%) so it can be used for single target healing in non-raid content
and many other great options that would give PI more of a meaning and more usability

on one hand, WHM is and should stay a "pure healer" for SE, but on the other hand we must not have too much healing power or the other healer jobs would be too much behind. this is not easy to handle, and we will see with what SE comes up. i just hope they DO see that PI needs more changes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lulunami

SCH would trade Aetherpact/Fairy Union for WHM PI in a heart beat.

---

You spelt Dissipation wrong.

Only change I would still like to see to PI is a small duration increase (12-15s duration). And for it to be less clunky with it's delay, but that's more of a problem with the game itself than the ability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maeka

I would have been fine if they had done anything else to PI than AoE healing in the first place, because as you said we have a lot of AoE healing already... but yet, you know, Lv70 skill? It'd been nice if our Lv70 skill was actually useful in more than the "occasional S&G skill". It's a letdown, to finally ding 70, see that you learned a new ability that is useful like... 1% of the time, and in only a handful of situations. THIS is supposed to be the "Ultimate" skill we learn? lol.

---

I feel it's important to note that this skill is much more usable than just 1% of the time, even in non-savage content. It feels lack luster because you're not getting 3 stacks of Confession consistently in non-savage content, let alone the fact it's only 150 potency at one stack.

However, there are still opportunities to use it. Pretty much every single boss in the current EXDR tier has some form of party damage (I think the only exception is the second boss of Kugane castle). Medica II + PI is still a 850 potency total returned. Is that too much? Then just downgrade to Media + PI for 450 potency upfront at 360 less MP and 0.5s less cast time. Even if the PI is wasted on other members on your team, it's still a free Regen tick on your MT after the fact at 150 Potency.

150 potency gained is still better than 0 potency gained by not using your PI. And using three PIs over the course of three minutes is still an equal value to using a single 3-confession-stack PI in the same three minute window and forgoing earlier applications.

Again, it's not Thin Air or Tetra or Assize but it's there and should be used when you get the opportunities to do so. It's a free minor heal that will not clip into your GCD usages if you're playing the kit well - use it when you can and just keep on trucking.

As a tangent, I almost feel we wouldn't have these sorts of complaints if PI was the level 62 skill and Thin Air was the level 70 skill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

The issue you'd run into trying to make the 3 stacks relevant would cause the healing checks in casual content to be much more punishing to the classes who aren't WHM.

Would you want an encounter to require ~1,350 potency (3 Medica I's + 3 stacks of confessions) of quick aoe healing to safely survive?

---

(or you just let confessions last longer so that it can be used as an aoe pocket heal like everyone hoped it would be able to be used)