Plenary Indulgence was THIS close to being good.

I gave it some thoughts after reading through the whole posts in this thread, and it taught me a lot. Here's what I got after analyzing:

(+) RNG is removed from PI entirely. Reliable procs with Medica, Medica II, and Cure III. So, it is now a reliable and no-gimmicky level 70 skill.

(+) One use of Medica II, then a PI proc has the same potency as Medica II + Medica. Am I right?

(=) If this is correct, then PI potency reduction makes it that you can't just proc PI without doing any AoE heals or risk subpar healing. Take it as balancing.

(-) Duration of Confession is reduced to 10s, saving confession stacks is not an option. Tactical use is necessary. You must make a choice between 2-stack or 3-stack proc. Use it, or lose it.

Imo, PI is now a raid utility that truly becomes useful when the party is taking lots of raid-wide damage and could use extra AoE healing to keep everyone in tip-top shape. Makes for an MP efficient AoE heal, instant, and on demand during the most pressuring moments. This is a really nice change for the better now that I took the proper analysis. Good work, SE. ^^

The only thing that really bothers me is that 10 second timer. If they'd kept it at 30 seconds I don't think I'd have a problem here. But considering the recast time is now 60 seconds, and the timer on Confessions is 10 seconds, there's no planning.

The only options are to overheal or let the confessions fizzle out.

I am pretty sad myself :(. I was getting really excited to test this stuff out on my WHM, then they go and nerf it. What is the point of this skill now :(.

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Originally Posted by EbonySeraphim

Snip.

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Please read the edited version of my comment.
I neither want, nor asked for the original duration/potency of PI. A 15 second duration would be enough for me, even if it is a minor increase.
What I want out of PI is for it to be a utility tool for WHM because that is the 1 thing all WHM's want, utility. We don't need more heals but this new PI is even worse than the original iteration in that it's most likely going to be a overheal. WHM's group heals are arguably the strongest in the game, so why are we getting an extra tool to further enhance them when they already do the job and then some? It's overkill thru and thru.

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Originally Posted by Lyrai_Celestine

I gave it some thoughts after reading through the whole posts in this thread, and it taught me a lot. Here's what I got after analyzing:

(+) One use of Medica II, then a PI proc has the same potency as Medica II + Medica. Am I right?

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Correction, Medica II+ Medica is a total of 1000 potency. (300+200+500 from the hot) WIth one stack of confession being 150, Medica II+Pi is 850. With 2 stacks it would be that but that would require another aoe heal, since I assume it would be the initial heal from Med 2 and not procs from the ticks.

Overall, I see where they're going trying to do with the spell since its original version offered no insight. But ultimately, it's too short for to make any real use of it unless its huge aoe damage. In patch 4.07 or 4.1, I can easily the duration of the move being increased either to 15 seconds or back to the original duration.

Still a bit peeved that the lvl 68 trait for WHM wasn't touched at all.

"Party members will no longer be granted a Confession when HP is restored via Cure and Cure II. They will instead be granted a Confession when HP is restored via Medica, Medica II, or Cure III.
The chance of granting party members a Confession has been increased from 20% to 100%."

*logs in, spams medica I and II. Get procs after 10 heals. hmm...*

Seems to be still rng

On http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/whitemage/

Restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members. Potency varies with current Confession stack.
1 Confession: 150
2 Confessions: 300
3 Confessions: 450
There is a 20% chance that party members (including self) are granted a Confession each time you heal their HP via Medica, Medica II, or Cure III.
Confession Duration: 10s
Can only be cast when at least one party member (including self) has a Confession granted by you.

I hope, it's an error lol

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

On http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/whitemage/

There is a 20% chance that party members (including self) are granted a Confession each time you heal their HP via Medica, Medica II, or Cure III.
Confession Duration: 10s
Can only be cast when at least one party member (including self) has a Confession granted by you.

I hope, it's an error lol

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Ya it's an error I tried it out in combat and its 100 percent. However its kinda weak really. 1 stack is healed for about 2.7k. It seems to the same with lilies in that if its too much of an overheal, it won't proc.

Edit: Also the stacks refresh every time u use an aoe heal.

I agree that most of the changes are great, but the stacks length vs the cd of the ability is too big. They should make the stacks last at least 15 secs if we have to move in between 2 cast or make the ability have more of a 30 sec cd. Currently, I feel that even if I got I got the stacks to be at 3, I would still lose them at least half of the time.

I'm going to stand there and Spam Medica II and Cure III like SE is telling me to do.

I'll be the BEST- AROUND!
No one's ever gonna keep me down!

So they changed it from possibly being a pocket heal to something I gotta use right after aoe healing.

Man, they don't have ANY idea what they want this skill to be, huh?

St least there will be something else for the medica healers in the 24 player raids to do besides spam medica, they can hit the PI button too.

I have no issue with the change of it being tied to AOE heals... it separated the lily mechanic from PI. That said 10sec duration on Confession stacks is far too short. I honestly don't know what they were thinking on this one, the duration of Confession stacks with the primary issue was the skill and now they made it worse.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Correction, Medica II+ Medica is a total of 1000 potency. (300+200+500 from the hot) WIth one stack of confession being 150, Medica II+Pi is 850.

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No, 300+150+500 is 950, not 850. How did you get a number that's 150 lower than 1000 when PI is only 50 lower than Medica?

So really, yes, Medica II+PI is practically the same as Medica II+Medica... unless that 50 potency is super important some how.

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Originally Posted by Chiami

But combine the nerf to potency with the nerf to duration (instead of INCREASING IT as pretty much every WHM told you, SE. Do you actually listen?) ... meh.

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Weren't most players asking for a duration increase/removal because the chances of getting a second stack in 30 seconds was a rare occurrence, especially because cure/II are used sparingly, and so that you could get stacks on other party members? Not so you could leave stacks on targets for later use?

Also the potency nerf is there because it is now an AoE heal, like everyone asked for, instead of a (basically) single target heal. At 400 potency on one stack it would be ridiculous in its current state.

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Originally Posted by Verdan

So they changed it from possibly being a pocket heal to something I gotta use right after aoe healing.

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Well, you don't have to. But essentially yes. In most situations it will be used after one AoE heal. But there are instances, and there may be more to come in the future, when you'll get more stacks. And honestly, 150 potency buff to AoE healing isn't bad, its not great but its definitely better than this "pocket heal" you are almost on the verge of defending.

@ everyone complaining about the duration: 10 seconds is long enough for you to get a second stack of confession. I know, weird right?

I feel like after casting 3 medica's in succession to stack confession to max, you probably don't need the healing from PI by that point...

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

That said 10sec duration on Confession stacks is far too short. I honestly don't know what they were thinking on this one, the duration of Confession stacks with the primary issue was the skill and now they made it worse.

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dev 1: "they complain about seeing confession stacks from the other healer, what do we do?"
dev 2: "just cut the duration so short that they will need to use it pretty much instantly. this way it will vanish before the other healer even notices it was there."

something like this maybe?
if so, then wtf...
duration should go back to 30 sec, or 20 at the very least

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Originally Posted by deos

dev 1: "they complain about seeing confession stacks from the other healer, what do we do?"
dev 2: "just cut the duration so short that they will need to use it pretty much instantly. this way it will vanish before the other healer even notices it was there."

something like this maybe?
if so, then wtf...
duration should go back to 30 sec, or 20 at the very least

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Our 70 skill still sucks sadly due to this.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

On http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/whitemage/

Restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members. Potency varies with current Confession stack.
1 Confession: 150
2 Confessions: 300
3 Confessions: 450
There is a 20% chance that party members (including self) are granted a Confession each time you heal their HP via Medica, Medica II, or Cure III.
Confession Duration: 10s
Can only be cast when at least one party member (including self) has a Confession granted by you.

I hope, it's an error lol

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To quote the 4.05 patch notes under Known Issues:

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An issue wherein help text for the white mage action Plenary Indulgence incorrectly states the action has a 20% chance of granting party members a Confession.

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AKA, yes, error =p

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

No, 300+150+500 is 950, not 850. How did you get a number that's 150 lower than 1000 when PI is only 50 lower than Medica?

So really, yes, Medica II+PI is practically the same as Medica II+Medica... unless that 50 potency is super important some how.

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Medica potency is 300. PI with one stack is 150. That's how they got a 150 difference.

Medica II is 200 (+hot).

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

Nothing on Benison eating up all lilies, Lilies still being meh, PI is at least useable. At least Cure 1 is now 100% right.

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Best part? Look at the PVP notes, Benison doesn't use Lillies in PVP now.

Did WHM really need more AoE healing? I thought it's spot as a single-target heal was great to allow WHM to keep up DPS more, just wanted it to be more reliable.

Alas, I am in game and while it has been changed to med, med 2 and cure 3, the percent to proc per player is still at 20, not the 100 listed in the patch notes. TLDR: still no reason to fit it on my bar. A pity, as I actually liked what was listed in the patch notes.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Medica potency is 300. PI with one stack is 150. That's how they got a 150 difference.

Medica II is 200 (+hot).

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Ah, sorry. My math was off. Disregard my post. I posted it just after waking up so I was pretty brain dead. >3>

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Originally Posted by Katryn

Alas, I am in game and while it has been changed to med, med 2 and cure 3, the percent to proc per player is still at 20, not the 100 listed in the patch notes. TLDR: still no reason to fit it on my bar. A pity, as I actually liked what was listed in the patch notes.

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I believe the tooltip information is wrong atm. It has been tested and is 100% Like it's supposed to be.

That aside how do you not have enough room on your hot bars? O_o

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Originally Posted by Katryn

Alas, I am in game and while it has been changed to med, med 2 and cure 3, the percent to proc per player is still at 20, not the 100 listed in the patch notes. TLDR: still no reason to fit it on my bar. A pity, as I actually liked what was listed in the patch notes.

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The tooltip is wrong. From the patch notes Known Issues:

"An issue wherein help text for the white mage action Plenary Indulgence incorrectly states the action has a 20% chance of granting party members a Confession."

Ahhh, I see. Thanks. And I'm on a controller, so space is not my friend.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Edit: Also the stacks refresh every time u use an aoe heal.

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What the what

So you Medica II and get one stack, then need to Medica for incoming AoE damage and it just stays at 1? How do you ever get multiple stacks?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

What the what

So you Medica II and get one stack, then need to Medica for incoming AoE damage and it just stays at 1? How do you ever get multiple stacks?

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I think they mean the duration refreshes back to 10s once you acquire another stack - allowing the caster to prolong the Confession stacks.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

What the what

So you Medica II and get one stack, then need to Medica for incoming AoE damage and it just stays at 1? How do you ever get multiple stacks?

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I think he meant that the timer refreshes, you still get another stack but the timer refreshes back to 10 seconds.

Ninja'd :0

They just had to do -one- thing to make PI good. They simply had to remove the timer on confession stacks. That's all. It would have make PI a good heal.

So I just tried out Plenary Indulgence in savage, and I have to say, it's actually really really good.
There's enough constant AOE damage going out to make ample use of it. I used it after Medica II+ Medica to almost always benefit from the 300 pot heal. I even got 3 stacks at a few points and healed everyone enough to make myself comfortable.

There's really only one thing wrong with it, and that's the duration. It should be back to 30 seconds, or at least 20 seconds. 10 seconds is really short, and while I still find many uses for it, it does make I feel clunky.

Still, this is the best thing that could have happened to Plenary Indulgence. WHM is very close to actually being a pure healer for the first time since HW!

I wanted to play the game first before giving a feed back.

After playing the new content:
I find myself using PI very often in the high-end content. Even with lower potency, it's really good.
Lilies are manageable now.

I love the new change. Though, I still don't use divine benison.

I was only able to use Plenary Indulgence twice during Deltascape V1.0. My co-healer kept healing everyone up to full with Indomitability, so it was near impossible to get the stacks up except after Charbdys. That 10 second timer on the Confessions is a joke. It's like they didn't even test it first, and just thought since it's a 100% proc rate now it would be too overpowered. I was using it more before, in 4-man content no less. Now I just sit there and watch the confessions tick down and fade away.

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Originally Posted by Cupcakesu

I feel like everyone who is complaining about Confession duration is not understanding how they want PI to be used. They don\\'t want you saving confession stacks. They are that short in duration because they want you to use PI immediately after Medica/II casts. PI is not another Assize to freely heal the party every now and then when stacks get high. It\\'s there as extra healing potency on spells you\\'re going to cast anyway. And you don\\'t need 3 Confession stacks to make it useful. An additional 150 potency on your Medica is already a noticeable and free increase, and the cooldown makes it so it\\'s likely to be around for almost every AoE healing situation you\\'ll need it for.

Seriously guys, just because you CAN achieve 3 stacks doesn\\'t mean you need to.

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If that is the case Plenary Indulgence is nothing but unnecessary bloat and should be removed for potency buffs to the healing moves it procs from.

Why is no one mentioning the abysmal recast time?

3x stacks is 450 potency.

Know what else is 450 potency? Cure I.

So, SE expects us to spam aoe healing 3x times in a row for a Cure I equivalent?

On a 60s recast?

It's clear they have no clue what they are doing with WHM and that they didn't go into detail before the patch because they knew they would get this response.

Better to do something and ask for forgiveness than ask beforehand, am I right?

Bad duration, bad recast time. If it's a pocket AoE heal, you should be able to hold on to it for longer than 10 seconds. If it's burst after an AoE heal, it shouldn't be so dang long to recharge cause we already have a minute burst.

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Originally Posted by IhzaMhaskova

Know what else is 450 potency? Cure I.

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And how many GCDs is it to cast Cure on everyone? 8. How many is it for PI? 0.

Tried it out.
Skill is still white hot trash.
It does NOTHING WHM doesn't already do without it. There hasn't been a moment, even in the new savage that I found it to be even remotely helpful because 9/10 times, everyone was already back to full health and even when I'm able to a use the skill, it's so weak it doesn't even do a dent in people's health.

I honestly preferred the original skill (minus the RNG) because at least then it had a chance of being up when I needed it and was an actual heal instead of this lackluster ability

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

And how many GCDs is it to cast Cure on everyone? 8. How many is it for PI? 0.

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No retort for anything else in the post?

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

Well, you don't have to. But essentially yes. In most situations it will be used after one AoE heal. But there are instances, and there may be more to come in the future, when you'll get more stacks. And honestly, 150 potency buff to AoE healing isn't bad, its not great but its definitely better than this "pocket heal" you are almost on the verge of defending.

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What I was sayin' was that they had no idea what they wanted the skill to be. In its previous incarnation, it was a thing that would pop up randomly, and you could then go "oh, I can heal this person for free if I have to." Was it good? No! The chance was way too low, it didn't come from enough things, and it didn't last long enough. But the design of the skill was that you'd build up these confessions as free healing that you could save until you wanted them. That's why the cooldown was low and the duration relatively long.

Now, they're added burst at the end of your AoE healing. It's a totally different design, which says they didn't have much of an idea of what they wanted the skill to be. It'd be like if they changed Foul into a single target spell that restored all mana. Or if they switched fell cleave into a defense buff. Or if they made Holy Spirit a Dot. They didn't want to give us a pocket heal that was built up by single target healing, they wanted to give us a level 70 skill.