"Pull Everything" in Dungeon Parties

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I'm always baffled by people that will spend 50 minutes in a queue, and yet when they finally get to the thing they wanted to do... all they want is for it to be over and done with as soon as possible...

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Well if they could just grab the tomes/XP from a vendor for free instead, they'd do that instead of going into the dungeon in the first place.

Removing rewards from content is a great way to remove people who don't care about the content and only the rewards, but at the same time, it's also a good way to kill the content itself as hardly anyone would queue for a dungeon more than once.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I'm always baffled by people that will spend 50 minutes in a queue, and yet when they finally get to the thing they wanted to do... all they want is for it to be over and done with as soon as possible...

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The world isn't so black and white.


Personally, I just like to optimize my free time. In-game, there are a bunch of things I want to do - things such as gathering, crafting, chatting with friends. I want to run the dungeon, of course, might even be one I like but I also like keeping the pace up.
I don't know why you'd imply running things at a faster rhythm is less enjoyable. Some of us actually like a making dungeons a bit more challenging rather than killing one monster at a time.

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Selecting a dungeon's pace is a tank's right and responsibility. Gauging a group, deciding what to try, and reallocating focus if things don't turn out as planned. Anyone who wants to pull instead of follow needs to get off their dps or healer and roll their own tank instead.

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This. Unless it truly looks like an accident, I follow the "you pull it, you tank it" mindset.

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I honestly can't stand baby pulls in expert dungeons. There's no excuse for it because unlike leveling dungeons, we vastly overgear it.

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There is no expert dungeon right now that I would say we "vastly overgear"

Even still, what you say doesn't even matter anyway unless you're the tank.

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If you're a tank and you get DPS pulling ahead of you, you're not respecting their own role, their time, or their efficiency to appropriately do their role. You only respect yourself and tank status.

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In most cases I've seen this happen, it's when we already have enemies present and someone (isn't always a DPS; if anything it's more often a healer) specifically runs ahead to pull more back, and trust me, they're the only people being disrespectful here. Your statement overgeneralizes the situation.

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Honestly, just because I can handle the monster pulls doesn't mean I want to every damn time. If a tank can't be bothered to fscking ask first, I've started letting them die.

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This. Sometimes monster pulls just give me a goddamn headache and I just want a steady paced dungeon (which isn't to say I just stand around inbetween pulls or something; I do keep going and the dungeon still never feels slow). You'll live if it takes 25 minutes instead of 22 or something, jeez.

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Personally, as a healer, I tend to up the pulls to silently tell the tank "I can handle it."

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Again, it's not about what you can handle. Tank actively deciding to pull less is not solely because he thinks you can't handle it; it can be for multiple reasons. Maybe he thinks the DPS can't/won't handle it. Maybe his CDs are down. Or maybe like I said, managing/fighting 10 things at once all the time gets headache-inducing.

The only time I welcome this sort of behavior would be if there is a patrolling mob ahead (like the aevis in Stone Vigil) that can be pulled separately from a mob pack.

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A tank does not get to decide the pace.

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That's precisely what they do. Tanks make the pulls and decide when and how to do it. The game actively encourages this by giving them better HP, defense, and enmity tools to handle a pull with.

Sure, it's up to the rest of the party whether or not they *follow* that pace, but the tank is the one that sets it each and every time they make a pull.

Reading throu this, what i see is a lot of people behaving stupid in either direction, You should all uninstill the game or stop being acting stupid or like a spoiled child.
Just get throu the dungeon as good as you can be nice to your party members no matter what happens or you think is wrong or right. Grow the fuck up everyone.
This behavior really makes me sick, and is the reason why we cant have nice things.

I always adjust to the tank's flow... though I have derped a few times and pulled by accident, usually on SAM :/ No way would I pull on purpose, unless the tank has set that kind of pace and is comfortable doing mass pulls, and you can usually tell if your group is all on the same page (stuff dies fast, popping defensive cooldowns at appropriate times etc), it can be lots of fun. Enjoy it on WHM too :) It's about adjusting to the group's composition when in DF, and communication... but god forbid people actually talk to each other and relate to one another :rolleyes:

This is one of my pet peeves, and I'm not even a tank! I do party with one often, though. We both will tend to give a person a chance, so if they pull once, we'll mention it or hint at the fact that we don't like it. If they do it again, then things can get testy.

Here's the deal - my friend the tank doesn't like to pull large, even being geared very well, under normal circumstances. I don't particularly care for it, either. However, all you literally have to do is ASK, and he will. That's it, just ASK. No one ever does, they just DO. And that's where the breakdown in communication comes. We've removed certain individuals from our parties before for not taking the hint after being asked several times to stop (including DPS, who I begin to feel slightly sorry for, because I am one, but after a certain point, our patience is non-existent).

It's all about common courtesy. Just ask us, an we will likely pull for you. If you don't, then we'll have an issue.

On the other side of things, the vast majority of times when I'm not playing with my friend, when tanks pull large, there's at least one wipe, maybe more. I don't know if this is just the fact that they are bad tanks, or if it's the healer, or whatever. I don't particularly like playing the blame game. But if you pull once and wipe, get the hint and just slow down a bit. It takes more time to wipe once, than it does to pull individual groups and kill them instead of pulling all mobs between bosses, or whatever people tend to do these days.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I'm always baffled by people that will spend 50 minutes in a queue, and yet when they finally get to the thing they wanted to do... all they want is for it to be over and done with as soon as possible...

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If you finish a dungeon 5-10mins you will be in the next dungeon queue 5-10mins earlier. Also in that 5-10mins you could have done a FATE in that time.

As in real life, the same in games. Be polite, understanding and honest. I main WHM, I'm at a point that I'm well geared. If I think that a tank is pulling little and I'm confident I can handle it what I do is very simple and amazing...

I mention it / ask

"If you want to pull more I think I can handle it, but your choice, do what you are comfortable with"

Majority of times the tank pulls more and it is fine. If you communicate politely normally ppl will agree.

I always ask the tank to make big pulls at the start of the dg, if he does not then I just alt+tab during and in bettewen pulls at times, he does not need the mobs to die fast if he is just gonna pull 2/3 of them at a time, actually the tank guy and the healer could solo it without major issues, my full dps is only needed if bigger pulls are made, where the tank is gonna run out of cds or the healer is gonna run out of mana if the mobs don't die fast enough.

I hate non tank pullers a lot more than I could ever hate baby pulls and slow killing :)
When I see DPS pulling stuff I'm sorely tempted to forger to heal them, but more often than not I do heal them anyway because the whining their death would result it is honestly not worth it...
Just like how tanks should not overpull if the team is unable to handle it (inexperienced healer, low damage DPS), the team should try and respect a tank's preferences too...

Lel @ "You pull, you tank it".

Wanna have Shirk/Shadewalker battle? xD

Anyway, playing tank myself often enough... lettingsomeone die just because you can is just bad tanking.
Ye, the dps might be not in the right there. Still, bad tank with victim mentality.

I mean, really?
"I will stop smart playing and instead of keeping the new adds together I'll let the dps die and then grab the adds from the healer who is sooooo glad to have to rezz someone (because, maybe, he wants to just get the enemies down at some point and doesnt care about ego battles?)."
Hurr durr, i am good tank.


Also, even if you can't handle the pull then.. if you're not in a hurry why is a wipe because some1 overestimated the tanks/healers capabilities that bad? "It's just 5 minutes more."
And If we wipe I can still blame him.

I rather tell a fantasy tale about that stupid rogue who I had to save from certain death than the tale of me putting my finger in the nose while letting some stupid person die.

Half the time, I have a hard enough time managing mob packs as it is. Especially in Bardam's Mettle onwards where they start hitting like trucks and I don't have the greatest gear. If you grab an additional enemy you will tank it alone and I'll be sure to not hit it with any aoe skills.

Like it's one thing if I have an all mage party. I'll pull whole rooms then; but two melees, especially 2 DRGs? Nah. You're getting packs daisy chained and you'll learn to like it!

I usually pull one group at a time because I like small pulls. When people want more, I ignore them. When they pull more on purpose, I let them sweat it out a little. They are more than able to kick me and wait for another tank, but I guess they figure the 2-3 extra minutes the dungeon may take is better than waiting another 20 minutes for another tank. Sometimes they get a little fussy and start insulting me, but I'm not 7 so insults from nameless and faceless people in a video game I will probably never encounter again don't bother me.

Players who want big pull seem to imagine we all play tank as main and then we necessary have the last highest gear. What if not? They forget this is not only a matter of keeping enimity but damages we and healer can handle.

Communication is amazing and more people should try it before being a jerk and pulling. Like when I ran with a friend last night who said, sure go ahead pull more, so i happily obliged. I trusted he knew what he was doing when he was healing me.

The issue is randoms feel like they don't need to communicate and communicate through pulling before I do.

That's when death happens. I don't care how many circles you run around me with the mob. You pull? You keep.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Anyway, playing tank myself often enough... lettingsomeone die just because you can is just bad tanking.

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Because pulling is good dpsing/healing? Nah...If they want to kill the mob so bad, they can kill it. I used to care about people who did that and would still catch the aggro on that mob, then as I mained tanking, I stopped caring. Because so many people do it....You just lose a bit of your soul each time. Eventually....a person runs out of shits to give....

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Anyway, playing tank myself often enough... lettingsomeone die just because you can is just bad tanking.

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If making a stand over people who think they're qualified to make pulls despite not being the tank makes me a bad tank, then sign me up, I guess.

Most people that aren't bucketheads seem to think I tank just fine for the most part, though.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

That's when death happens. .

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So what if death happens? You learn most from trial and error.

Gosh y'all act like theres actually any consequences for wiping/dying.

Do you feel any rl pain if you die in the game? or is it cos a wipe makes the dungeon take longer when your baby pulls are the no. 1 thing that make em take longer than neccessary in the first place?

Remember when in some old school MMORPGs you lost like 2-4% of your exp progress every time you died? Cos I do, and those 2-4% took like 2 hours to farm. So THAT was painful.
Nowadays? What consequences do I get from wiping? A weakness debuff that lasts what....90 seconds? Oh noes. /panic

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

Players who want big pull seem to imagine we all play tank as main and then we necessary have the last highest gear. What if not? They forget this is not only a matter of keeping enimity but damages we and healer can handle.

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I dont main tank, its the least played class by me and this game is the first game where I even ever touched one. Can we please stop pretending like its hard to remember a few common sense rules like turning bosses away from the rest of the party
and trying to gather your pulls close enough so they get hit by AoEs? And then acting up on it and like, spam a couple flash/overpower/unleash to keep hate + pushing a few cooldown buttons?

Dungeons arent hard. no matter your role. Big pulls only do one thing: They make you use more of your resources, ultimately making you a better player. It does NOT matter if you wipe while you learn.

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Originally Posted by Sakei

Yes, I'm not ever worried about speed I'm worried only on health. I see it drop very fast at times. I'm not going to call anyone out, I've dealt with very good tanks. However, could you maybe pull some smaller pulls, especially when it's my first time there. I realize you are confident in your ability. However, I may not be ready with all of the cd's your typical healers are throwing out. It's better safe than sorry as they say, and a slightly slower run might be more fun while many of us are gearing up. :cool:

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Actually i meant this as if i go on slow pace^^ but yeah, i understand what you mean, i'm a mentor after all and i take it seriously, soon as i see someone that is bonus to a dungeon i explain every boss and slow pull.

My favorite explanation is with Bardam's Mettle dungeon second boss, is just "Have you seen DBZ abridged? Yes? Then all you need to do is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODGE"

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

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I think you misunderstand. When I say then death happens, that person who decided to be a pompous jerk is dead. I scoop up the mob and me and the rest of the party, party on. It has nothing to do with trial and error when someone makes the choice to pull ahead of the tank.

There is a consequence for dying. It's called gee thanks for wasting more time than a small pull wouldve wasted since time is everything to the impatient people. So they pull more, which just ends up in more death, then they DC when they realize that the dungeon is going nowhere.... I had a DRK do that the other day. Couldn't be bothered to use cooldowns, repeatedly died due to no fault of our whm. then DC'd....cool....I guess....

So there are consequences, its just what you view as a consequence. For me mostly, its losing just a bit more of my soul, that I'm surprised there is anything left at this point.... -.-

It's all situational, to be honest. I had a WAR (myself as AST) in one of the end game dungeons last night. He pulled two packs, then proceeded to run off and grab the dogs as well. Needless to say, we melted. No communication happened, but we adjusted accordingly.

OTOH, it's rewarding to pull hard as a tank if you know your party can handle it. It's also frustrating when party members run off and pull things to you, or huff and puff at your "slowness." Everybody does it, but I think DPS are especially guilty of this.

I know a lot of BLM -- and myself, as a SMN -- who will start boss fights or early engage a pack in order to keep Enochian/spend Ruin IV procs.

Gonna echo a point made earlier in the thread where communication is key. I feel like the tank and healer should have more of a say than DPS how the dungeon flows, but it's a game. Adjusting to early pulls, over-pulls, and losing your procs doesn't mean you're letting your playtime get ruined.

I pretty much go at my speed when tanking, which depends on what i'm in the mood for.. sometimes "slow" pulls or normal pulls etc .. and other times big pulls .. but hell if healer Ask me to pull more then i most likely will.
If a dps ask i will most likely not change anything cause well .. to me tank and healer control the speed.

Pull Everything! well even i don't there is few reasons for,

1 is healer won't keep up easily with you as tank even you do buff ur self.
2 DPS are terrible, singel target 1 monster and have no idea of pos / rotations
3 dungeon run takes alot longer when keep wipe.

I say to my self, what is limit for this healer in my team?
but pull 3 mobs at time when you know this are very weak once and they will die quickly so why not bring more.
first timers tankers i let them be to learn the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

I had a DRK do that the other day. Couldn't be bothered to use cooldowns, repeatedly died due to no fault of our whm.

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oh boy, i HATE wannabe tanks who pull the whole dungeon without using cooldowns. I REALLY do. But this topic did not specify on "tanks who pull big without using cooldowns"
but merely on "tanks who pull big". So thats a huge difference. Tanks who dont use CDs can go kindly throw themselves into the nearest fire.

The thing is...I trust in my abilities as a tank. Especially as a PLD. Even if I get a leaf first-time healer, there are situations where it doesnt matter when I go for the big pulls.
If I have my most important CDs up, Hallowed is up and I have a friend with me whos a caster and theres a LB bar....I can just HG into the pull,have my friend burst stuff with LB and then use my other cooldowns + Clemency if needed
while the last bits of the pull are being killed. If the healer cant handle THAT, he would also manage to let you die on smaller pulls. The problem is that people fail to realize that them being overly careful is EXACTLY what makes these dungeons harder than they actually are.

I've really had so many leafies successfully healing through my big pulls that I'd like to say that I'm doing my part as good as possible to not put too much stress on a healer.

As for the "consequence" thing....I dont know, I feel I'm punished harder to endure through a super slow boring babypull dungeon than by a penalty. It doesnt matter if I'm a healer, tank or dps...I got them all to 60.
I got about half to 70 already. I do my best, I read my tooltips and figure something out. Now mind you, I do not read up on the best possible raid openers and rotations when I'm simply lvling a class from 60 to 70,
but my DMG is usually always more than decent to warrant larger pulls. As a healer, I can handle it too.

I do not think of myself as a player with exceptional skills, I really dont think I am. But I make an effort. And a consistent carebear mode isnt gonna make anyone get better.
I admit I have pulled ahead of tanks many times. Especially as a healer. Why? Because SHOWING and PROVING it to them how it actually works is gonna do more than trying to talk in theory and have them say "no".
Ofc some tanks get pissed, but most tanks go along with it. The other week, I pulled ahead and the tank refused to take those 2-3 mobs that were hitting me...So I just kept healing myself while the 2 dps killed them.
See. Didnt even need the useless tank. If I can tank those 2-3 adds as a healer, why cant YOU (not specifically "you" but the tank) do it with a couple more adds?

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Originally Posted by ximxim

blablabla.... Enjoy being Blacklisted by fellow tanks and enjoy those long que time lel.

Bai

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blablabla.....I WOULD enjoy that if it actually MEANT not being able to be matched with them in DF anymore. But sadly it apparently still can happen.
If waiting a few minutes more means, I'd be guaranteed a decent tank, then oh boy, count me in!

Bai o/


(but...really....you dont realize youre doing me a favor that way, are you? o.o)

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Gosh y'all act like theres actually any consequences for wiping/dying.

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In a good portion of all the rando groups I've ever joined, there is usually someone that just immediately bails from the party if there is ever any wipe (or sometimes even if just that person dies).

In a good portion of THOSE parties, their bailing causes a cascade effect that just makes the group fall apart completely.

More than once, this has happened to me after making some progress in an instance, essentially causing all the progress to be lost.

So yeah, I try to avoid the wipes in most cases.

Honestly, pulling small makes less of an impact than most people think it does. As long as the tank isn't just standing around inbetween fights to pick his nose or whatever and keeps a steady pace, it usually goes around as fast as it would if they tried to pull big anyway.

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I know a lot of BLM -- and myself, as a SMN -- who will start boss fights or early engage a pack in order to keep Enochian/spend Ruin IV procs.

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I don't know anything about SMN but I can say that the Enochian argument doesn't hold weight anymore, because now Enochian can be maintained indefinitely without needing a target just by using Transpose. If Enochian ever drops without them intending to, that is 100% the BLM's error nowadays.

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I admit I have pulled ahead of tanks many times. Especially as a healer. Why? Because SHOWING and PROVING it to them how it actually works is gonna do more than trying to talk in theory and have them say "no".
Ofc some tanks get pissed, but most tanks go along with it. The other week, I pulled ahead and the tank refused to take those 2-3 mobs that were hitting me...So I just kept healing myself while the 2 dps killed them.
See. Didnt even need the useless tank. If I can tank those 2-3 adds as a healer, why cant YOU (the tank) do it with a couple more adds?

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You're not SHOWING or PROVING anything other than being an annoyance.

A tank has their reasons for pulling as much as they do. Respect them if you want to be respected back, or just play tank yourself.

Always test your party on the first pull(if you are comfortable yourself when tanking and able to take on larger pulls). If your party is not composed of high damage AoE users...definitely no large pulls. If they have good AoE, then sure medium-large, just need to test the first pull on them and see what they can do. If it takes a LONG time(i.e. BLM using Fire IV on a mob of 6+ and refuses to adjust for Fire II), then consider smaller pulls to not tax your healer too much.

If the healer is pulling...let them almost die before taking over their mobs.
If DPS is pulling...let them die as most healers won't keep them up if they are purposely pulling stuff(different if the DPS takes agro while using all the enmity reduction skills).

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I don't know anything about SMN but I can say that the Enochian argument doesn't hold weight anymore, because now Enochian can be maintained indefinitely without needing a target just by using Transpose. If Enochian ever drops without them intending to, that is 100% the BLM's error nowadays.

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Post-60 SMN now has a proc that changes Ruin I and Ruin III into a more powerful spell, Ruin IV. It lasts 30 seconds, kind of like brand new Enochian in 3.x -- and you can't proc it manually, since it's all based on your pet. I've been guilty of casting it on a boss before the tank has pulled, but this typically only happens when the tank lingers for 10+ seconds.

Agreed about wipes though. There are actual consequences to wiping, not simply game-wise. People only have so much time to play, and not everyone enjoys a wipe.

If the party wipes because the DPS or healer told me to pull more, though, that's on them. (Or on me, if I told the tank to go hard.)

You only really have a right to complain about pulls if:

1. You observed the party can take bigger pulls and already asked in chat. YES, even in dungeons YOU overgear. Honestly, it won't hurt to type a simple "We can pull more." Ask first, don't be a dick and just pull.
2. You're the tank, and someone keeps running off and pulling without saying anything.

Other roles have queue times and you don't because they wait for YOU(tanks). The same is true for dungeons. Setting the proper pace for dungeon runs is a tank's privilege AND responsibility. If someone points out the party can go faster then you should pick up the pace.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

In a good portion of all the rando groups I've ever joined, there is usually someone that just immediately bails from the party if there is ever any wipe (or sometimes even if just that person dies).

In a good portion of THOSE parties, their bailing causes a cascade effect that just makes the group fall apart completely.

More than once, this has happened to me after making some progress in an instance, essentially causing all the progress to be lost.

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I've run so many dungeons and I dont think I've ever had anyone leave cos of a wipe or two. If it did happen,then that mustve happened so rarely that I cant even remember.
Not that I dont believe you,but thats never been an issue for me.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

You're not SHOWING or PROVING anything other than being an annoyance.

A tank has their reasons for pulling as much as they do. Respect them if you want to be respected back, or just play tank yourself.

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Most retarded argument ever made in history "just play tank yourself".
Whats the use of it? A tank cant pull miracles out of their a** if the rest of the party is twiddling their thumbs. If I'm stuck with a subpar heal-only healer and 2 dps who think auto-attack or single target "rotation" is the way to rock a big pull, there's nothing much I can do. Cant even do that much dmg as a tank. Theres a reason why I main healer and play WHM in dungeons...because I have the best tools to influence/control most of it: I can make the big pulls work, even if the tank isnt so decent and I can add a significant amount of dmg to speed up the run. Cant do that much as a tank. So yeah...useless suggestion is useless.

Had a run like that in 67 dungeon. just like Heavensward, SB dungeons have that cut off point where stuff starts to hit really freaking hard. bardams mettle and onward. And it even continues somewhere at certain points in 70 dungeons. The game is not going anywhere there is really no need to rush or be rude to the tanks who could simply just STOP queuing for DF pugs for good and stick with their fc. They don't really need us but we need them, unless you have a tank of your own, which most don't.

Chill out, the game will still be here tomorrow and probably another half decade from now.

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Most retarded argument ever made in history "just play tank yourself".

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You want control of the run that you are not entitled to as a non-tank.

I think it's definitely more logical than wherever it is you're coming from.

I pull as much as possible in 70 dungeons, but I look at the party beforehand.
-If both dps are new 70's, then I don't want to spend 5 min tanking 20mobs each pull.
-If healer is a new 70, I ask them what they prefer most of the time.
-If on the first pull dps don't use aoe abilities and single target, I stop large pulls (some dps refuse to aoe for some reason).
Other than that, I don't see much point of pulling slow.

In leveling Dungeon I pull as much as reasonably possible. If we wipe then I change pace.
If it is a FC group, I purposely pull too much just to screw with our healers.

Playing as AST/BRD, I can't stand when the tank waits between pulls, or gives all the bosses an epic stare-down before pulling them. If I am with a FC healer (as dps) or DPS (as healer) we will pull the next pack and just have the dps tank it if the tank doesn't grab them... unless the tank is genuinely new/fresh 70

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

You want control of the run that you are not entitled to as a non-tank.

I think it's definitely more logical than wherever it is you're coming from.

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I'm not entitled to anything as a tank.
If the rest of the party can't keep up with what I do I can't go "omg guys. I'm the tank. I'm entitled to having it go MY way. Git gud!"

Get it into your head already. GDI.

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I'm not entitled to anything as a tank.

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As tank you are expected to be the one making pulls. Proper party procedure. Get it into your head already, GDI.

Hence why

1) It's the tank's responsibility to make pulls that both they and their party can handle
2) if anyone else tries to pull, I assume they must also want to tank whatever they just pulled

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

Theres a reason why I main healer and play WHM in dungeons...because I have the best tools to influence/control most of it: I can make the big pulls work, even if the tank isnt so decent and I can add a significant amount of dmg to speed up the run.

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That's the thing, if I'm tanking, and you feel confident we can do more, please just ask. There's only one situation in which I'll say no really, and that's if I'm new to the dungeon (which I will mention anyway, I just tend to be extra cautious if I'm new because I don't want things to go wrong and therefore I take a "Better safe than sorry" approach). I'm generally a steady tank, but am almost always OK with going for more if people ask. Communication will go a long way with me. I'll work with the group's wishes most of the time, but I'm no mind reader, so you need to tell me!

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Why does 1 person get to decide the flow of the dungeon? If everyone else wants to pull large, why not oblige them?

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The group might want it but not have the capability to do it. As a tank, part of your job is gauging the limits of the group with regards to pulls. If they're asking for more than they can handle and insist on it and you wipe, you could still get blamed for it. It does happen. So you have to know the group's limits.

Why does 1 person get to decide the flow of the dungeon? If everyone else wants to pull large, why not oblige them? You're literally the smallest factor in the success of large pulls.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

I honestly can't stand baby pulls in expert dungeons. There's no excuse for it because unlike leveling dungeons, we vastly overgear it.

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There's that word again. We. Who we? I'm not vastly overgeared for tanking.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Why does 1 person get to decide the flow of the dungeon? If everyone else wants to pull large, why not oblige them?

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In fairness, it's rarely more than one person who mentions pulling big. The tank may ask at the start of the dungeon, but it's rare to get a reply -- an actual miracle if the rest of the party speaks up.

Also on that thought: the person who objects may know they're incapable of handling big pulls. This would be the case for a tank (they don't know the dungeon and aren't comfortable) or the healer (all sorts of things can go wrong here)!

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

You want control of the run that you are not entitled to as a non-tank.

I think it's definitely more logical than wherever it is you're coming from.

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A small part of me is convinced you're a troll but on the off chance I'm wrong...

You do not have "control of the run" as a tank. You are not "entitled" to anything special as a tank other than (probably) Adventurer in Need and my gratitude for doing a role I don't enjoy.

Also my inner healer can't help it - how much control do you have as a tank if the healer doesn't heal you? A remote control car is fun but without batteries it's just dead on the pavement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ilea

This would be the case for a tank (they don't know the dungeon and aren't comfortable) or the healer (all sorts of things can go wrong here)!

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Yup, until I get comfortable and more knowledgeable about the changes that were made to tanks, I will be pulling smaller(probably not 1 group of three only, but probably 2). Once I'm comfortable and confident I can handle more, and the healer agrees/mentions they can handle more, then I will pull larger.

As for healing...I have to fix my skillbars still for that, then I will try it out with (hopefully) smaller pulls.